dnex36 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 For those who have 5-10 year saves on the beta, have you noticed any improvement in long-term AI squad building? This has been my biggest issues with past FMs. After a couple of years my teams just become too dominant even if I tey to handicap myself. I know there was something mentioned in the pre-beta announcements, but have you guys noticed any difference? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switters Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm 4 years in and as far as newgens go, lots of AI teams doesn't rate or can't see the world class potential youths in their own squad. I was able to sign two for free in January because AI didnt offer a new contract, and got a couple more very cheaply. These are 4 1/2 to 5 stars gems with an already decent attributes. They're already backup to my first team. Looks like human teams will be dominant in a few seasons time if you scout well... FM14 seems to have a lot of these 5 stars youngsters too...with an already good rating at 16-17 y.o Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnex36 Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 That's not good to hear. The one thing I was hoping they'd fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultras5314 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'd be very interested in this too. Since my goal is to play one or two long term games only, the AI and regen development are the most important things to me. I very much appreciated the work done by The Hand of God on the previous version and I'll be sure to chip in as well once I get a solid holiday game going. To start off with however I did a 5 year holiday last night, just to see some regen quality. What I noticed was a lack of bravery and aggression in most players, even central defenders and defensive midfielders. Now I don't expect every player to be Vidic, but surely we'll have some proper men left in the future? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rowell Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'd be very interested in this too. Since my goal is to play one or two long term games only, the AI and regen development are the most important things to me. I very much appreciated the work done by The Hand of God on the previous version and I'll be sure to chip in as well once I get a solid holiday game going. To start off with however I did a 5 year holiday last night, just to see some regen quality. What I noticed was a lack of bravery and aggression in most players, even central defenders and defensive midfielders. Now I don't expect every player to be Vidic, but surely we'll have some proper men left in the future? I suspect this might be because the average bravery / aggression ratings at present are statistically too high? So, the regen process redresses the balance by producing a generation of... hmmm...cowards I seem to remember an older version of FM (09 I think?) where the next generation had really low jumping attributes. But I also seem to remember as you played on, this did correct itself. The fact that youngsters with high PA aren't being played & developing is a cause for concern though. I'm sure SI are still working on it but its obviously proving to be a tough nut to crack! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 For those who have 5-10 year saves on the beta, have you noticed any improvement in long-term AI squad building? This has been my biggest issues with past FMs. After a couple of years my teams just become too dominant even if I tey to handicap myself. I know there was something mentioned in the pre-beta announcements, but have you guys noticed any difference? Lol, good luck with that. Thats my problem for 20 years, so i dont wait for SI anymore. I use FMRTE editor since FM12, and its great. When AI is too weak, i edit every single team in league that i play. After that, i edit every better club in Europe. I need 2 days to do all these things right, but after that, i can play forever. Just every next transfer window i fix player who come to my league ( Premiership). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YKW Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 If somebody could update on the nature of AI signings that would be great. I seem to remember reading in the announcements thread that FM14 includes enhanced AI roster building, and the possibility of me buying the game rests on this almost exclusively. Do teams still buy players in positions they don't need? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnex36 Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 Lol, good luck with that. Thats my problem for 20 years, so i dont wait for SI anymore. I use FMRTE editor since FM12, and its great. When AI is too weak, i edit every single team in league that i play. After that, i edit every better club in Europe. I need 2 days to do all these things right, but after that, i can play forever. Just every next transfer window i fix player who come to my league ( Premiership). I do something similar in that I never use search, only sign players my scouts have found on assignments and try to not sign free agent newgens who are too good to be out of contract. Even then I end up dominating. It's good that the ME gets improved, but what's the point when the AI is going to have horrible teams on the pitch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias333 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 lol you guys should try managing in the MLS. I find quite often due to wage restrictions there, other AI MLS sides release half there squad to get under the budget but by doing so are stripped of quality and have about 12 left backs lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnex36 Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 lol you guys should try managing in the MLS. I find quite often due to wage restrictions there, other AI MLS sides release half there squad to get under the budget but by doing so are stripped of quality and have about 12 left backs lol. So dissapointed they didn't address an issue as crucial as this. After only playing 13 for about a month, it looks like I won't be buying the game this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias333 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Just like to make it clear my previous comment regarding the mls was reference fm13 not 14. Give FM14 time chap. Im not purchasing until xmas/Jan 14 time like always. Prefer all the major bugs being patched up, as well as me collecting all the facepacks, kit packs etc....then make your mind up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daoan Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I can't believe since newgens was introduced Si can't make 1 version of this game that can actually be playable for a long term... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias333 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Am I missing something? I mean I know squad building has always been difficult but on my long term saves its not like I find all the best newgens even with the best scouts. Many a time ive been beaten to a newgens signature as well and hes gone on to be amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnex36 Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 Just like to make it clear my previous comment regarding the mls was reference fm13 not 14.Give FM14 time chap. Im not purchasing until xmas/Jan 14 time like always. Prefer all the major bugs being patched up, as well as me collecting all the facepacks, kit packs etc....then make your mind up. I agree with you on waiting until they fix major bugs, but this issue isn't one that's likely to be addressed during a patch. That's why I had my hopes up for this release. Reading some of the new features and fixes really had me hoping that SI had made the AI halfway decent. Maybe for FM15...but this time I won't be spending my money. Am I missing something?I mean I know squad building has always been difficult but on my long term saves its not like I find all the best newgens even with the best scouts. Many a time ive been beaten to a newgens signature as well and hes gone on to be amazing. It happens every now and then, but overall long term squad building is terrible. AI teams prefer to play their 35 year old midfielder instead of the 18 year old with 5 star potential. Add to that the fact that they sign players they have no need for and fail to tie down players that are clear first team quality. Maybe the issue is the reliance on reputation rather than ability/potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I do something similar in that I never use search, only sign players my scouts have found on assignments and try to not sign free agent newgens who are too good to be out of contract. Even then I end up dominating. It's good that the ME gets improved, but what's the point when the AI is going to have horrible teams on the pitch? My rule is that i NEVER buy players from my division. Because i edit them + i dont want to weak my league. I buy players from other countries or lower divisions. Try that if you like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I can't believe since newgens was introduced Si can't make 1 version of this game that can actually be playable for a long term... Actually i think they can. Im sure they can, they had 20 years to do that. But then probably 30 % of us would not buy FM every year, because we would be happy with current saves. And thats lots of $. Personally, i bought all versions of CM-FM since beginning, but im gamer and i respect SI. But many players i know dont buy FM every year, just because they use FMRTE and have great saves. FMRTE and other edit programs gave us ( with our hard work) what SI dont want to give. Long and challenging careers. Its so boring once you have money and AI sucks. But when you improve AI clubs with 185- 200 ability players, with right attributes, it can be very interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Am I missing something?I mean I know squad building has always been difficult but on my long term saves its not like I find all the best newgens even with the best scouts. Many a time ive been beaten to a newgens signature as well and hes gone on to be amazing. How large is your datebase? i usually have 100 000 players, then youll have some good regens. newgens, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar2000 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Poor AI squad building has been a big gripe for me for many years. I started a thread back in 2009 with the idea that AI managers needed a rigid framework when it comes to squad building based on the following criteria: (See link to original thread below - some very interesting points made and no harm in starting the discussion again now that plans for FM2015 will be underway ) Be great to hear other forum members ideas on this. Squad Size Each AI team should be limited to 25 first team players for each season. 25 is the perfect number, 3 goalkeepers, and two players for each position. Im not saying they have to be registered like in Spain, but a code in the game that the AI sticks to each pre-season, but of course are still able to use reserves and youth players if needs be. This along with my second point below stops clubs spending millions on a position that is already covered with quality and stops squad size getting out of control which results in many unhappy players and low morale. Using Preferred Formation to Build Squads Each manager has a preferred formation in their profile, so why not have the AI managers buying players based on that formation? I think im right in saying at present the AI buys players on CA alone, not taking into account players already in the squad and his formation? If a manager has 4-4-2 for example set in his profile, he should want 4 wingers and 4 strikers in the first team squad, no more. How often in FM do you see big clubs spending millions on a winger when they already have 5?? Again 2 players for each position and 3 goalkeepers = 25. Average Age Managers should aim to keep the average age of their squad between 24 and 26. This solves the issue of too many 30+ players with rapidly declining stats getting new deals, but of course leaves room for players of that age that do deserve to still be in the squad. Reserve Squads (Probably improved now with most reserve leagues U21 with max 3 overage players) Age limit should be 23, but AI managers can still tell first team players of any age to play in reserve games as is the current way. The more the game goes on the more ridiculous the amount of money spent on reserve players wages due to first team players been demoted and ignored. Once 24, they either sell them, release them or are part of the 25 man first team squad. Buying for the Future Id like to see alot more AI activity in snapping up young players for their youth teams, just as we do. This means more consistent flow of players into their reserve and senior squads. I know some of you are going to point out that these restrictions don't exist irl so why should they in FM and if we don't have to follow these guidelines then why should the AI?? To that I would say well it is only a computer game after all. It's either stick with the current mess or have strict guidelines for the AI so their squads are neat, organised, realistic and competetive in the long run, because lets face it, most managers irl stick to this theory any after all! In terms of whether it gives us an advantage over the AI, I couldn't disagree more. I think it creates an equal level as we all stick to these guidelines anyway! It's a nightmare trying to keep a squad of more than 25 players happy! Also, im guessing most of you keep your reserve teams fairly young on low wages? http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/117047-Framework-to-improve-AI-squad-building-and-long-term-games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 That's a lovely perfect world, do all teams in the game start with squads that match those criteria? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar2000 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 That's a lovely perfect world, do all teams in the game start with squads that match those criteria? More do than not and I think that an (admittedly unrealistic) rigid framework as I've mentioned above would be much closer to real world than the mess AI squads find themselves in after a few seasons of FM. Look at AI squads when you first load a new game - constructed around a managers preferred formation, style of play, personality, mixture of youth and experience, some academy players in the first team and healthy reserve / youth squads. Then look at squads 10 years into the game world - complete mess. I really don't see your point tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnex36 Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 More do than not and I think that an (admittedly unrealistic) rigid framework as I've mentioned above would be much closer to real world than the mess AI squads find themselves in after a few seasons of FM.Look at AI squads when you first load a new game - constructed around a managers preferred formation, style of play, personality, mixture of youth and experience, some academy players in the first team and healthy reserve / youth squads. Then look at squads 10 years into the game world - complete mess. I really don't see your point tbh. I totally agree with you. There has to be some way for AI managers to build realistic teams and pick intelligent match day squads. I don't know what the answer is but in the end this is a simulation. Giving players a number for a real life attribute isn't realistic either, but that's the way SI chose to make it work. I don't see any reason why your idea is any less realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaka Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I've done a holiday save and the quality of regens is significantly better as in them getting playing time and the distribution of stats. My only concern is AI teams make some weird/stupid transfer decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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