need help with a 4-1-2-1-2 formation

[vandamme22]

Hello

I am trying to play with galatasaray istanbul a 4-1-2-1-2 tactic, but after a couple of friendship, I think I am gonan struggle a lot through the season.

How would you set up such a formation?

I had a lot of possession and long shots, but nothing else....

[Angus Osborne]

I'm reasonably new to FM13, but I have also tried a 4-1-2-1-2. I think you definitely want to give your fullbacks WB roles, but you should still expect to give up a few crosses so your centre backs need to be good in the air.

[The Chosen One]

I agree with Angus Osborne. I tried 41212 diamond with Arsenal and I struggled a lot with it. The limitation is obsviously it's very narrow formation and as you come up against popular formation such as 4231 and more width possessed formations, your team is going to struggle to comb with that. Offensively, you need attacking fullbacks (both of them) to compensate the lack of width. Defensively, it's going to be tough. If you face 4231 (with wingers), then your midfielders have to move away from the middle to flanks in order to close down the wingers. That's a long distance to cover and by that time their wingers might have already run away with the ball. Not to mention, your midfielders would leave gaps in the middle. These are the problems I encountered.

if your complain thus far is only that you have lots of possession but no penetration then good thought would be to have attacking fullbacks to create width and provide crosses.

[rhazgnetimo]

Hello..

I'm just the new player too for this game entirely. By the way, i uses 41212 on my Juventus. Although last season in the game i was using 352, the same as the real Juventus manager, Antonio Conte. There's some differences on both formartions. With 352, i usually possesses the ball higher than 55% in the game, the goal is abundance too (my main striker is Fernando Llorente DLF-Attack). But when i changes to 41212, to apply my new signing (Christian Eriksen - Ajax - Danish - Free Transfer), i struggle to possess the ball. Long shots is increasing, but goals are fully decreased.

I think i agree with @the chosen one. The main reason of lack of chance creating is the width. Midfielders are acted only in the middle, there's nobody in the flanks that supporting them. So whe we try to initiate attack, midfielders are only works with the forward, and the forward usually act as the wall (1-2 pass). As a result, midfielders takes a long shots alot. So i try to maximize the potential of midfield scoring. I uses high long shots accuracy midfielders (Marchisio, Vidal, Pogba) to create goals. Nevertheless, i will always tries changing my game pattern until i have satisfying performances..

Hehehe

Sorry for my bad English, dude..

[vandamme22]

Hello..

I'm just the new player too for this game entirely. By the way, i uses 41212 on my Juventus. Although last season in the game i was using 352, the same as the real Juventus manager, Antonio Conte. There's some differences on both formartions. With 352, i usually possesses the ball higher than 55% in the game, the goal is abundance too (my main striker is Fernando Llorente DLF-Attack). But when i changes to 41212, to apply my new signing (Christian Eriksen - Ajax - Danish - Free Transfer), i struggle to possess the ball. Long shots is increasing, but goals are fully decreased.

I think i agree with @the chosen one. The main reason of lack of chance creating is the width. Midfielders are acted only in the middle, there's nobody in the flanks that supporting them. So whe we try to initiate attack, midfielders are only works with the forward, and the forward usually act as the wall (1-2 pass). As a result, midfielders takes a long shots alot. So i try to maximize the potential of midfield scoring. I uses high long shots accuracy midfielders (Marchisio, Vidal, Pogba) to create goals. Nevertheless, i will always tries changing my game pattern until i have satisfying performances..

Hehehe

Sorry for my bad English, dude..

Yeah, I have exactly the same problem. Against weaker teams I have a lot of poessession and a few long shots, I am dominating the game but not really have a lot of shots on target or ccc. But against other opponents is my ball possession also low.

I switched one of the fb as attack an the other on support.

But I dont wanna score with long shots, what can I do more to get more chances?

TI:

fluid, control, short passing, more pressing, more expressive, zonal marking and all the other settings are on default.

Formation:

gk defend

fbl attack 2 cd defend fbr support

dlp defend (dmc)

bwm (support) cm (attack) or bbm (support)

ap (support)

tm (support) af (attack)

If I have a lot of injuries than I switch to a normal 4-4-2 formation with wich I get good results.

Currently I am on top in the league and reached the first knock out stage in cl with galatasaray, but I dont really play a attacking football with a lot of shots and shots on target...

I use also shouts like: push higher up, look for overlap, play through defence, play wider, exploit to flanks and work ball into box

[miguelalves]

You should go with

gk

full back - attack

CD - defend

CD - block

full back - support

DM - defend

AP - support

CM - support

IF - attack

IF - support

Striker - Attack

Control strategy is not as efficient as it used to be in previous patches. I prefer Attack strategy, very fluid.

Also very important is training your players preferred moves to the style you want them to play.

[vandamme22]

You should go with

gk

full back - attack

CD - defend

CD - block

full back - support

DM - defend

AP - support

CM - support

IF - attack

IF - support

Striker - Attack

Control strategy is not as efficient as it used to be in previous patches. I prefer Attack strategy, very fluid.

Also very important is training your players preferred moves to the style you want them to play.

I think you understood something wrong. I am playing with a 4-1-2-1-2 formation, I dont wanna use Wingers, why do you recommend me such a formation???

I wanna play with two strikers. How would set up the midfield roles and duties?

DM

MC MC

AMC

thx

[vasilli07]

DM - If good passer, maybe DLP(Sup). If not good passer, then AM.

MCR - The more attacking player. APM(Att)/CM(Att)/B2B

MCL - The more defensive player. CM(Def)/DLP(Def))/BWM(Def)

AM - AM(Att)/APM(Att)

If opposition using AMC, you can swap the MCL with the DM roles to counter him.

[vandamme22]

DM - If good passer, maybe DLP(Sup). If not good passer, then AM.

MCR - The more attacking player. APM(Att)/CM(Att)/B2B

MCL - The more defensive player. CM(Def)/DLP(Def))/BWM(Def)

AM - AM(Att)/APM(Att)

If opposition using AMC, you can swap the MCL with the DM roles to counter him.

Great thanks

IF the dlp (support) is not a good passer (means more than 14 as pass state) then you would tick apm as playmaker? You would use the dlp as support not as defend? whats the big difference?

Which oi would you use against a 4-5-1 and 4-2-3-1, because their is always one of the midfield, which is not marked by my players....

MY AM always reports me, that we are overruned in the midfield... should I Ingore this?

thx

[vasilli07]

I don't like using a specific playmaker.

With such a narrow formation, your team will surely to be overrun by teams with wide midfielders. You will be strong in the middle, so 1 way of your attack will be through the middle. Then choose 1 flank to attack. Put a wingback(att) there. On the other side, the other fullback will be a more defensive 1, maybe a fullback(sup). With this setup, you are only conceding 1 flank.

[vandamme22]

I don't like using a specific playmaker.

With such a narrow formation, your team will surely to be overrun by teams with wide midfielders. You will be strong in the middle, so 1 way of your attack will be through the middle. Then choose 1 flank to attack. Put a wingback(att) there. On the other side, the other fullback will be a more defensive 1, maybe a fullback(sup). With this setup, you are only conceding 1 flank.

I followed your recommendations, but I am still struggling with dominating the game, less chances, its not a entertaining football, the board wants a attacking style, me too, but I am struggling to play with formations without wingers....

[Gooner SJ]

You haven't really described what you are seeing on the pitch, and why you think you are getting long shots. Once you identify the issues then you can see about correcting them. Are you watching the matches? I would pause the game during your attacking play to see where the players are positioned and why you can't create opportunities.

Personally, with a formation so narrow, you are going to have to do something to create space for chances. It may be beneficial to look to your AMC as a goal scoring threat, and set up a DLP behind him with one of your midfielders. You could also then set up your two strikers with roles that allow them to drift a little wider looking for space, DLF, T, CF, etc. The strikers go wide or drop deep to create space for the AMC to make runs at goal. The DLP can also feed all of this with good passing. You might also look at using a BBM in midfield to run around in the opposition's half to create space and draw defenders out of position. It's just one idea to consider, but you also need to have the right kinds of players in those roles.

[vandamme22]

You haven't really described what you are seeing on the pitch, and why you think you are getting long shots. Once you identify the issues then you can see about correcting them. Are you watching the matches? I would pause the game during your attacking play to see where the players are positioned and why you can't create opportunities.

Personally, with a formation so narrow, you are going to have to do something to create space for chances. It may be beneficial to look to your AMC as a goal scoring threat, and set up a DLP behind him with one of your midfielders. You could also then set up your two strikers with roles that allow them to drift a little wider looking for space, DLF, T, CF, etc. The strikers go wide or drop deep to create space for the AMC to make runs at goal. The DLP can also feed all of this with good passing. You might also look at using a BBM in midfield to run around in the opposition's half to create space and draw defenders out of position. It's just one idea to consider, but you also need to have the right kinds of players in those roles.

I am watching the matches... Extended view plus If I take a look to the statistics, then you also gonna identify my issues. Maybe you have right, I have the watch the whole match for one time.

again my formation with roles and duties

gk defend

wbl attack 2 x cb defend fbr support

dlp support in dm position

mcl bwm defend mcr cm attack

apl support/or attack im amc position

fcl target man support, fcr af attack

How would you set up this formation with the roles and duties to create more space???

Almost in every game the opponent has even shots like me, sometimes is the ball possession state also very low...

At the end, yeah you should have the right kinds of player for this roles... I believe that is my main problem, but I wanna play with two forwards and wesley snijder behind them as apm... If I change to a formation with wingers than I have to buy someone....

[Gooner SJ]

I'd probably use a Trequartista in one of the CF roles because they tend to roam around into space more. I'd also set the AMC to either IF or AM because you need someone who is running around to disrupt things while the other players are dropping deep. I'm not sure if Fluid philosophy would benefit you here either. You might try balanced. I've not used this formation to much success but it would be interesting to try and work with.

--DLF(s) ---T(a)--

--------AM(A)----------

---BWM(d)--AP(s)---

--------DLP(d)--------

--WB(a)-CD(d)-CD(d)-FB(s)--

---------GK(d)--------

Maybe something like that, but I'd still probably want both fullbacks to be on attacking duties, or maybe WBL(a), WBR(d/s). In which case I might change the AP in midfield to a more holding midfield role.

[Luketa]

I had success with the following setup, managing in the argentine league:

GK: KEEPER

DR: WINGBACK (S)

DC: DEFENDER (D)

DC: (DEFENDER (D)

DL: FULLBACK (S)

DMC: ANCHOR MAN

MCr: BOX TO BOX MIDFIELDER

MCl: CENTRAL MIDFIELDER (A)

AMC: ATTACKING MIDFIELDER (A)

ST®: DEEP LYING FORWARD (S)

ST(l): ADVANCED FORWARD (A)

BALANCED

STANDARD

MIXED PASSING

A pretty stable tactic, loads of variants to attack, usually must close down and/or tight mark opposition wide players if they are a threat, specially MR or ML and DR-DL, as you dont have any players directly facing those positions.

[vandamme22]

I'd probably use a Trequartista in one of the CF roles because they tend to roam around into space more. I'd also set the AMC to either IF or AM because you need someone who is running around to disrupt things while the other players are dropping deep. I'm not sure if Fluid philosophy would benefit you here either. You might try balanced. I've not used this formation to much success but it would be interesting to try and work with.

--DLF(s) ---T(a)--

--------AM(A)----------

---BWM(d)--AP(s)---

--------DLP(d)--------

--WB(a)-CD(d)-CD(d)-FB(s)--

---------GK(d)--------

Maybe something like that, but I'd still probably want both fullbacks to be on attacking duties, or maybe WBL(a), WBR(d/s). In which case I might change the AP in midfield to a more holding midfield role.

I do wanna use roles, who are doing more for the game. Maybe a Trequartista is roaming more around into space, but if you don't have the ball, he will do nothing for the game.

I give my amc (wesley sneijder) a adp support or attack role and duty and also ticked the box, that he can roam from position.

I thing for such formation or tactic the players should be cable of to play both sides of the game, from the fbs to the forwards, that's the reason for the fluid philosophy.

Regarding the fullbacks or wing backs, If have to buy better players to play those roles and duties.

Don't you believe that two roles on a defend duty in midfield is too rigid? I would also try the dlp as support (like pirlo in ac milan) or I let the dm play as a anchor man.

What do you think of a 4-3-1-2? it wouldnt be a huge change to the present formation...

[vandamme22]

I had success with the following setup, managing in the argentine league:

GK: KEEPER

DR: WINGBACK (S)

DC: DEFENDER (D)

DC: (DEFENDER (D)

DL: FULLBACK (S)

DMC: ANCHOR MAN

MCr: BOX TO BOX MIDFIELDER

MCl: CENTRAL MIDFIELDER (A)

AMC: ATTACKING MIDFIELDER (A)

ST®: DEEP LYING FORWARD (S)

ST(l): ADVANCED FORWARD (A)

BALANCED

STANDARD

MIXED PASSING

A pretty stable tactic, loads of variants to attack, usually must close down and/or tight mark opposition wide players if they are a threat, specially MR or ML and DR-DL, as you dont have any players directly facing those positions.

OK, i had a very similiar setup like you...

DMC: Tried as Anchor Man and also as DLP (defend or support)

MCs Partnership: CM (attack) and BWM (defend)

AMC: Tried as apm (attack or support) with roaming from position

ST®: Tried as Targetman support

Use: Fluid, control or attacking and a short passing style

how was your ball possession with mixed passing???

How is the creativity freedom of the team?

[Gooner SJ]

Regarding the fullbacks or wing backs, If have to buy better players to play those roles and duties.

I think that's probably a big part of your issues. I see the wingbacks as being critical in that setup, because they are your source for getting width.

Don't you believe that two roles on a defend duty in midfield is too rigid? I would also try the dlp as support (like pirlo in ac milan) or I let the dm play as a anchor man.

I tend to think defensively first, but it all depends on what you are going for. I think you'd need more width though for someone to be making plays like Pirlo. I don't see that happening in this setup. I think it could be really effective with a strong Targetman though.

What do you think of a 4-3-1-2? it wouldnt be a huge change to the present formation...

I've had good success with 3 in the middle. I used CM(D), AP(A), BWM(S) in a fairly standard 4-3-3, but I also used two wingers and 1 striker. I still think you should consider that even if the Trequartista up front doesn't always have the ball, he will create space by drawing out defenders that are marking him.

I think that the formation is set up to rely on one of the strikers up front to create chances, and to create chances with wingbacks/DLP. If you don't have the right players for that kind of play then maybe you should look to adding wingers instead.

[vandamme22]

Thanks for your support

here are some typical matches, which I won or play draw but didnt really dominate, with dominating I mean the shots and a aggressiv playing style... the opponents have always a lot of shots or similiar like me

[Gooner SJ]

What kinds of shouts are you using? When I am trying to dominate the opposition, I tend to use Push Higher Up, Hassle Opponents, Pass Into Space, and Run at Defense, with either Attacking or Control mentality. I also have the attacking version of my formation set up with More Pressing, More Expressive, More Roaming, and More Aggressive Tackling.

[vandamme22]

What kinds of shouts are you using? When I am trying to dominate the opposition, I tend to use Push Higher Up, Hassle Opponents, Pass Into Space, and Run at Defense, with either Attacking or Control mentality. I also have the attacking version of my formation set up with More Pressing, More Expressive, More Roaming, and More Aggressive Tackling.

Please look at the last SS, you will see the shouts which I am using...

I always use: push higher up, work ball into box, look for overlap, play through defence, play out of defence (because sometimes I have really bad pass % from my defensive players) and pass into space... with control mentality

I use more pressing, but creativity, roaming and tackling are on default, I dont know if the players are capable of this kind a playing.....

But if you take a look at the match stats, you will see that I dont have enough shots and ccc....

I used to watch the first 15 minutes and what I saw is that the players are passing around in the midfield and sometimes passing back to defence... there is more retaining the ball instead a aggressive forward playing

There is no compelling actions... but I wanna play a short passing style, because I have a lot of central midfields who have the skills to play like this... run at defence is maybe more for a formation with wingers isnt it???

[Hagi_07]

If you are dominating possession and only getting long shots in against weaker opponents it sounds to me like to need to create space and exploit the space quicker. Using the following shouts might help...

Drop deeper - sit deeper to draw the opposition out.

Play wider - opens your own team up across the pitch but also means the opposition needs to get wider leaving gaps in channels.

Get ball forward - should allow your players to get the ball forward into the space quicker so the opposition can't get men behind the ball and flood the middle of the pitch.

If you really want to keep the possession and dominate, I'd look to get the fullbacks on the ball in wide areas and tell them to hit early crosses. Assuming of course that you have decent aerial ability in your strikers and good crossing stats in your fullbacks. You'll probably find you'll need alot of crosses and alot of corners to get little reward though.