cellinis Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I have an excellent regen who is Pirlo-esque/Scholes-que in his ability on the ball, but not a particularly physical lad. I also have two good B2B midfielders who can run all day to keep him company and provide defensive cover. However, I am struggling to get him enough space to use his talents in a 433. He does see a lot of the ball and manages 3-4 key passes a game (passing on average: 75-80, completion:92-95%). But after watching Scholes in the second half today... it got me wondering whether I could use my 2 B2Bs to create even more space and time for him and get those passes to 100-120+ Any ideas would be welcome: Tactic: 433 (Winger on right, IF on left, DLF (att/sup depending on situation) - flat 3 midfield) Counter/Balanced (counter-attack ticked off, width: first notch of wide, Defensive line: Three notches from the max) Creative Freedom: Disciplined but high creativity for DLP(d), Winger, DLF DLP (d) instructions: Same as in tactics creator except: RWB: mixed. Creative freedom (First notch of much): Roaming (He is, of course, the playmaker) The other two midfielders: B2B or BWM(s) depending upon situation/opposition with one on RFD mixed and other on rarely. Any ideas would be welcome on how to create more space for DLP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrewnaldo Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Are your box to box players capable of playing DMC? My current formation uses either 3 DMC's with the playmaker as the central or using the playmaker in the CM role and the box-to-boxes deeper as DM(S) with forward runs changed to often. I get plenty of space for my chosen playmaker and his positioning is exactly where I want him to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtis2307 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 First suggestion would be to drop your defensive line and bring your DLP back to the DM position, this will immediately give him more space to operate between defence and midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 i find the notion of getting that many passes in FM very unlikely - the only people who achieve it build all their settings towards it - it sounds like your DLP is actually fairly effective anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draigh Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 i find the notion of getting that many passes in FM very unlikely - the only people who achieve it build all their settings towards it - it sounds like your DLP is actually fairly effective anyway This. Also, the first thing I'd do to get him more space is to drop him into the DM position, he's further away from the opposition and has a clearer view of play so he should receive and pass the ball more easily. I'd also put both supporting midfielders on RFD-sometimes, as it's their forward runs that draw opposing midfielders towards their own defence, creating pockets of space behind them for the playmaker (like Vidal and Marchisio do for Pirlo at Juve). And last but not least, a high defensive line will effectively compress the playing field, which is exactly NOT what you want to do here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellinis Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 Hi! Thanks for the replies. I have previously tried the DMC position (albeit not 3 DMCs). Unfortunately, while it helps him get away from midfielders, it usually ends up with him getting picked up by one of the forwards and see less of the ball. I also have problems pressing effectively with DMCs (undoubtedly my tactics) especially away from home with possession dropping from 65-68% (currently) to 50-55% against similar/lower rated teams. I will give a deeper D-line a try. Is their any way to continue harassing opponents even with a deeper D-line? (I'm afraid that while my team is excellent with the ball, we don't have very good defensive record without it and possession is quite important defensively) I'll also give the RFD mix to both a try, especially in the home games to see how it works out. llama: I dare say that until yesterday when I watched Scholes run the second half, I too thought that my DLP was pretty effective. But now... !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrewnaldo Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Except Man Utd lost that game... just goes to show that there is only one stat that matters and I don't really see the point in increasing your playmakers passing stats if it runs the risk of jeopardising your overall tactic. If you are already doing well then I don't see the benefit in trying to give one player 100+ passes. Most of those passes are likely to be sideways or backwards and, if you move him to DMC particularly, miles away from the opposition net. Not particularly effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellinis Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Except Man Utd lost that game... just goes to show that there is only one stat that matters and I don't really see the point in increasing your playmakers passing stats if it runs the risk of jeopardising your overall tactic. If you are already doing well then I don't see the benefit in trying to give one player 100+ passes. Most of those passes are likely to be sideways or backwards and, if you move him to DMC particularly, miles away from the opposition net. Not particularly effective. In the game, all I have are 3 good midfielders, a couple of good inside forwards and defenders who are good on the ball but not particularly good defending. For me, keeping the ball is first and foremost a defensive strategy, with the sole creative player being my dlp. The more he sees the ball, the more we create, the less we concede. Ps: the point for me is not to get my DLP to play sideway passes, rather for every one else to play sideway passes, give him the ball and let him create. Ps2: I don't think United lost because Scholes saw a lot of the ball. They lost because he didn't see enough of it in the first half, and their midfield was run over by more physical and more dynamic players like Dembele. Rooney hassling from the front (instead of Giggs who looked darned tired) and a good team talk from Sir Alex did the trick in the second half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
däkkä Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I think it's a good point by Shrewnaldo. Bearing in mind that Tottenham's deep defensive block was the main contributor to Scholes' visual impact upon the game, you have to say that the opposition has more influence (than yourself) on how much space your team has to play. In other words, your playmaker's pass count would be more dependant of your opponent than you. Wouldn't the best way to create space for a deep-lying player then be to force the opposition - no let's rephrase - to sway the opposition to protect their own goal and concede possession? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 You have to bear in mind that FM matches are not full 90 minutes meaning there are fewer passes overall. The 75-80 passes is probably pretty much in proportion with Scholes' real life contribution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryman24 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I've had a lot of success with playing 3 CMs with the middle one on a slightly more defensive mentality and 'no forward runs'. The player drops into pockets of space and sprays the ball around very effectively. Worth a go... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfmdaily Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I've had a lot of success with playing 3 CMs with the middle one on a slightly more defensive mentality and 'no forward runs'. The player drops into pockets of space and sprays the ball around very effectively. Worth a go... On my current game I'am playing with a 4-3-3 system, the central player is an Advanced Playmaker, one of the other players is a ball winning midfielder and the other player is a central midfielder with support or attacking duty depending the player skills. I was champion with Lecco on Serie C2 (Italian 4th division) and on Serie C1, after half season, Lecco is within promotion zone to Serie B. I'am getting good results with these sequence of roles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrewnaldo Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Apologies, my point above was slightly tongue in cheek which I don't think came across. I do find it odd however that, like Jonathan Wilson's latest article in World Soccer, someone would claim to make an assertion based on that particular ploy failing. (for those who haven't read it, Wilson was claiming the death of the defensive midfielder by pointing to Arsenal and Man Utd last season and Utd's game with City in particular - I would have thought that the fact the team who was playing a more orthodox defensive midfielder won that game would sway the argument the other way but nevermind) Aaaaanyway, this should be a good read for you and help you a little: http://fmtacticalnewspaper.fmcrowd.com/3-4-3-possession-discussion-3-possession-break/ Or these: http://www.thedugout.net/community/showthread.php?t=80667 http://www.thedugout.net/community/showthread.php?t=75022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellinis Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 Thanks for the links! Do you have the link to Wilson's article? I can't seem to find it on worldsoccer.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrewnaldo Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I don't, I've got a hard copy of the magazine I picked up the airport. Apologies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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