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OlaGunna

Considering Citizenship Confusion

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At Blowcrapup.

I didnt think of that, thats an idea I should have tried.

Unfortunatly the player in question is in his last year of being on loan in belgium. but i think i'll recall him just to try what u said to find out if that would work

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OlaGunna:
Was it just under 5 months of the year that he was there. Well the answer to that is NO.

He was given a full year towards it, thats right 365 days towards that new passport goal.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a bug in the game and was supposedly fixed with update 8.0.1

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by canvey!!:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OlaGunna:
Was it just under 5 months of the year that he was there. Well the answer to that is NO.

He was given a full year towards it, thats right 365 days towards that new passport goal.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well trust me it isn't. As my latest update is about to tell.
This is a bug in the game and was supposedly fixed with update 8.0.1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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[B]Update[/B]

So I decided to take the advice of [B]blowcrapup[/B] and arrange a friendly with a Polish team.

I was currently two days from the end of the January transfer window and had arranged a friendly with Polish team Korona Kielce to take place on the 31st of January.

I recalled the player at the centre of this whole topic back from my feeder club in Belgium.

He arrived back from his loan saying he was sad to leave my feeder team and to note the WP sign was still next to his name.

[B]Recap[/B]

As was previously stated in an old update on this whole situation the player in question was given a full year towards the Work Permit even though he'd only been there for just under 5 months.

[B]The Next Surprise[/B]

So after being recalled for less than 2 hours of game time, the player in question has at last achieved his 2nd nationality but its not for Poland!

It's for Belgium!!!

Whats odd about that is that the player in question was only signed by me just 2 days under 2 years in game time. So it took him a year quicker than it should of to get the Belgium passport.

[B]More Questions than Answers[/B]

How does this passport Situation really work?

What does Considering Citezenship really mean?

What changed in those 2 hours in game time for the player to get that 2nd nationality?(even tho when he came back he still had required days next to his name)

[B]What Next[/B]

Well i am going to play this friendly against the Polish team and play the player in question, and maybe the Polska manager turns up to watch. Who's knows he might take another nationality.

But, what I would like is for SI to explain how this is all works, as yet again User testing and understanding of this situation is all over the place.

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[B]Quick Update[/B]

I played agaist the Polish team but the Polsish manager did not show up to watch so nothing happened with my player.

On another note I recalled a different player from my feder club in Belgium who had until the end of the season to gain the 2nd nationality to see if he would get one early like my player in question did. And surprise, surprise he did.

[B]SI[/B]

So can someone from SI please explain how all of this works as yet again it keeps throwing up more questions than answers.

[B]What are the factors required when a player is considering citizenship?[/B]

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It took me a while to find do out what do...
im in my postion as athletico madrid once aguero had completed his days after that he wanted a new contract so i gave it to him he appected the next message "aguero now sainish citzen"
thats my recomdation ppl

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I signed aguero for Barca in the 1st season and he was eligible by the end of the season but he accepted only half way through the 2nd.

This feature of second nationalities should be implemented as realistically players accept 2nd nationality because it doesn't really make much diff to them. They can still play for their original country and now they don't need a Wp to play in Europe.

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Well I think most people would like a situation where you could ask or order your players to take a second nationality.

Also, I wouldnt mind an option to tell players why you're loaning them.

I had a good regen who'd been at a Swedish feeder club of mine on loan for 3 years prior to me getting a Belgian one. I tried to send him away for his final year, and he wouldn't go.

If I'd been able to say, 'I'm sending you there for an EU passport so you can play for the team' it'd really really help. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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First things first:

Always send brazilians and argentians to Spain. They can get the passport MUCH quicker. In spain for them (that I know of) its 980 days or something, Belgium is 1k+. It is, however, only these nationalities. A Japanese player takes 3k+ days!

This happened in my game (very similar). In the spanish league where you have the 25 player limit and can only have 3 none-EU registered players. I had 4 - but one of my argentinian playerrs was "considering citizenship". Now I KNOW I've seen it on websites such as BBC where Barca have told their players to take it - just for the quota space. The worst thing about all this was that it was registration day. About a month later he took the citizenship - but that point I couldn't register the other none-EU player because the deadline had passed. Surely the players in the game should be able to see the time constraints. At the bare minimum it needs to be part of the 'Player Interaction' -> 'Take Citizenship, please, thanks.'

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yeah this problem is quite irritating.I signed Patricio Araujo for free from Bordeaux and he played there for exactly 5 yrs,good enough to gain a citizenship.When I signed him in feb,i though he would take it up when he arrives in july,but even after 2 yrs he's still consideting & now also has a Spanish citizenship to consider.

Bcos of him,2 yrs ago,my 4th non eu player couldn't be registered for a whole year & i had to play him only in spanish & european cups.

Hopefully this will be sorted out in the new patch.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now Here's My Questions

When will he take the 2nd nationality to allow him to play for me?

Is there anything I can do to encourage him to take it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately you cannot force a player to take up a dual nationality. Its entirely up to him when and if he does it. I have said in the past that it would be a good idea if you could put a clause in the players contract when they are negotiating that they must accept nationality as soon as they become eligible. Until SI introduce this then follow thnom's advice and send your Brazilians & Argintinians to Spain but remember that only 1st division clubs in Spain are allowed to sign non-eu players.

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You should also take note of the fact that if the player is already an EU citizen he will NEVER take a 2nd EU nationality,no matter what.So basically,it is impossible for a French player to play for,let's say,Austria.But IRL it IS possible.

Also,non-EU players who are not considered as foreigners in certain countries (e.g. ex-Yugoslavians in Germany) will also avoid taking up the nationality even if that means that it will lower their chances of signing for a club outside Germany ("I'm happy where I'm at and I don't care if Barcelona will quit on signing me because I'm too lazy to go to the city hall and ask for a German passport."). [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

Also,I've noticed that some players I sign suddenly have 300+/1000+ days added to their time in Germany while in fact they came to Germany for the first time only a couple of weeks ago...

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trekman:

Unfortunately you cannot force a player to take up a dual nationality. Its entirely up to him when and if he does it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't force them.But you can ask them...

I can't find the link but that is what Rijkaard did with Ronaldinho,Eto'o etc.

On the other hand,the FK Zeljeznicar Sarajevo manager convinced his young Senegalese player Boubacar Diabang Dialiba to take up Bosnian nationality so he isn't counted as foreign and that he can play for the Bosnian U-21 side...

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You can't force them.But you can ask them... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? How? I have never seen this in the game. I will have a closer look at the player interaction screen as I assume this is where this option would be

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No mate,I expressed myself in the wrong way,I meant IRL. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

So you [B]SHOULD[/B] be able to ask them to take another nationality since that's what's happening IRL.

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hello, firstly what is IRL?

am wondering cause it seems to be confusing, i am in feb 2008 and i have noticed C. Ronaldo is 190 days away from considering citezenship, what does that actually mean?

i am the manager of England also so if he accepts it would that mean he is eligable to play for england and can be selected etc or that is not poss cause he is capped for Portugal?

So then what would be the point in him accepting citizenship if it doesnt actually really make a difference?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by philly_cool1983:
hello, firstly what is IRL? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In Real Life

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">am wondering cause it seems to be confusing, i am in feb 2008 and i have noticed C. Ronaldo is 190 days away from considering citezenship, what does that actually mean?

i am the manager of England also so if he accepts it would that mean he is eligable to play for england and can be selected etc or that is not poss cause he is capped for Portugal? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once a player is capped for the senior team in a FIFA sanctioned match, he cannot play for another international side (unless that country disappears and splits into several others like Yugoslavia).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So then what would be the point in him accepting citizenship if it doesnt actually really make a difference? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just to keep consistent.

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ah i see what you mean thanks, so pretty much no hope in the good players gaining the english natioanlity and having them play then? lol oh well i stick with the good old english

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by philly_cool1983:
ah i see what you mean thanks, so pretty much no hope in the good players gaining the english natioanlity and having them play then? lol oh well i stick with the good old english </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well you never know, IRL Cudicini is eligible although he doesn't seem to want to play for England, Di Canio was apparently eligible, and Almunia has declared he wants to play for England now he's eligible.

Or if you want you could manage Belgium and all their work permit Brazilians and such. [img]http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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What i suggest is, get a in-game editor, eg. FMM, and give that player a 2nd nationality.

Now to keep it still realistic i suggest waiting til that player has completed the number of days otherwise it's cheating....but if thats considered fun for people then so be it.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What i suggest is, get a in-game editor, eg. FMM, and give that player a 2nd nationality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the thing is that we shouldn't have to use something like FMM. The whole feeder club\dual nationality part of the game needs looked at again because I think its seriously flawed.

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well you can use an in gam editor or the pre-game editor as to try it out i put morten pedersen as a duo natonality but makes no difference as he has played for his other country, so unless you just take them off there oriinal nationality there aint much point to it, what do you think?

so Almunia is eligable to play for england and wants to, i dont support arsenal but he is an alirght keeper isnt he? better than robbo carson etc?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SCIAG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jsolloso:
and I remember some English player choosing Jamaica in 98 in order to play at the World Cup.
This should really be in the game. Cmon SI, sort it out! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to be pedantic, but it was T&T.

And to people not getting WPs, try offering new contracts. That works for me most of the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No, he said 1998. He's referring to Wimbledon's Marcus Gayle.

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It should be a clause in the contract that the player must take citizenship if you sign or offer a player a new contract.

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It is possible that the player is deliberately not choosing to take a 2nd nationality. For example, if you're English and went to play for a American side, how would you react to being told to take up American citizenship?

You might want to stay English - you may be proud of that and might not want to change.

At the moment, in FM, some players take a second nationality, some don't. This is probably realistic.

The only problem I can see is the lack of interaction and information, in game, surrounding this - we should be informed that a player would have no intention of taking a 2nd nationality before we sign him.

I've no problems with players not taking their option of nationalities but it would be nice to just have better information around it.

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A few small changes to this in-game would be nice.

First, it could say[I]'considering citizenship since 10.9.2008[/I] si you know if he's only just had the option or if it's been a while. This would indicate he has the option but has had no reason to bother taking it up thus far.

Also there could be another that states [I]'Has declined ever taking up Citizenship for Belgium'[/I].

I think this would help clear up some of these (not really) issues. I feel both these bit's of information are very likely to be found out at the earliest during any cntract negotiations with a player.

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