FM 2010 10.1 New 4-2-3-1 Tactic

[Crazy Paving]

**EDIT** This tactic has been updated for 10.2

Hello

This is my first ever tactical upload in FM. Over the last 3 or 4 versions I have come here and found a successful tactic. However, I have always been frustrated that I have been unable to create my own. After a couple of seasons as Cartegena in Liga Adelante I started work on a basic 4-4-2. I've always been a fan of this as I like 2 strikers working together. I then used the 4-4-2 I had created with Villa in the Premier League and it was a total disaster. We lost the first 9 games in a row, despite creating chances. So I started to tweak the tactic, first to an ultra attacking 4-4-2 with advanced wingers. This worked better but we still got a good tonking from the top Premier League sides.

As I had Van Der Vaart on loan from Real I decided to drop a striker and try a player 'in the hole' behind the centre forward. Suddenly we started to produce some good results. The team creates over 20 chances on average per game (accepting there are some games where it just doesn't work) and goals are contributed from all the attacking players. Most importantly, I found that the average ratings are very good, when we play well, the ratings are impressive, high 7's and low 8's.

This tactic has now been used for 2 and a half season. The first full season was pretty much the starting Villa squad with one or two bargain signings, we finished 5th but lost out on 3rd place with a last minute goal knocking us down the league. Highlights were my striker Oscar Cardoza scored 40 league goals in 31 starts. Second season with the tactic we finished 3rd, would have competed better but lost 4 of first 7 games whilst new signings settled in. Semi finals of the Europa League and we won the FA Cup beating champions Man Utd 3-2. Start of the 3rd season has seen us win 8 games in a row. This is very offensive but if you watch the game, the team play nice compact passing football and score some great team goals.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/962/fixturesc.png

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8932/progressk.png

THE BASIC TACTIC:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4872/tacticsv.png

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9028/tacticpositions.png

Rigid philosphy as I want a structured team with defined roles. Mainly because I have a workman-like squad and lack really talented players. the obvious exception to this is the AMC playmaker who is set up to have loads of creativity.

Starting strategy is Normal. This will be changed depending on who you are playing and where. Generally I start all games like this, but change to Attacking at home which yields chances. Away or when we are ahead I will switch to Counter. That said, when 3-0 down at Man City and 2-0 down at Arsenal I went Attacking and we nearly clawed it back. Just need better players.

Playing style is shorter as I like passing football and with relience on a playmaker and one forward, direct football wouldn't suit. Creative is left to the individual positions, with certain players (wingers, AMC) more creative than the center mids and defenders.

Closing down is to press more, again, we are a workman like side so a team of grafters are expected to press. Look at Arsenal, United and Barcelona IRL, top teams that work very hard to press the ball. Good enough for them, good enough for me. Obviuosly you need good work rate in your players for this.

I tried hard tackling and suffered a lot of red cards, so it's default.

As for marking, for years I went Man to Man, and despite what I see as a flawed defensive strategy IRL, in Fm 2010 I have found we concede less going Zonal. So although I personally favour man to man, zonal seems to work better.

Crossing is set up to drill the ball in. I don't have great height in the players I select up top (I have Heskey and Carew but rarely use them) so I like my wingers to fizz the ball in and cause chaos with low driven balls.

Roaming is stick to position. If the team mentality is rigid it would be a contradiction to allow players to roam, so this is off.

The playmaker is set up for the AMC position and I have the targetman as the ST with the balls set to feet so he can look to supply the wide players and supporting AMC should he not be capable of shooting. I have target man ticked but the ST is not set up to play the Target man role. As yet I have no idea if this influences the game, maybe someone wants to trial the striker in the target man role and let us know if it's better.

The team is set to push up and stay compact so the short passing works, this obviously leaves a gap behind the back four, so quick defenders are necessary in this formation. It also helps if they can pass ok, but the defenders need not be Matthias type passers, just capable of going from A to B. Width is Normal, again keep it compact for the passing, and tempo is normal, we struggled with a high tempo and the short passing seems to woek with a normal tempo. Passing is focused through the middle as the playmaker is key here.

INDIVIDUAL POSITIONS

GK: Defend. Basic setup, I haven't tweaked this area as it seems ok, I like the idea of a sweeper keeper but my GK is old and slow so I've left it as it. We do play quite high up the pitch so maybe a sweeper is worth a try.

Full Backs: Support. I've tweaked the mentality so they are just below attacking and asked them cross sometimes. They are set to support as the team is pretty attacking already and I don't want them leaving 2 centre backs too exposed. have quick, hard working, tackling players who are ok crossers. Basically pace and work rate matter most for me here.

Centre Backs. Defend. Well, for me this is what they should be doing. Defending. Haven't tried to cover/stopper options, quite like the idea and this formation is a bit leaky so maybe it could be trialed. However, this has them stay back and defend. It's important to have a bit of pace as we push up quite high with this tactic, and obvoiusly the usual attributes of heading, tacking and marking.

The 2 centre mids are set up slightly differently. The right hand side one is a defensive midfielder who is set as a Ball winning midfielder to defend. Every team needs a good ball winner, essential in modern football. He is ultra defensive. You need decent tackling, work rate, stamina, team work and decisions. It helps if he can pass a bit too.

The left hand midfielder is Central midfielder with support. As there are 4 attacking players ahead I want my midfield to screen my back four, but this player is expected to do the general midfield graft, helping out going forward. A good, solid all round midfielder in here, I have the more attacking of the 2 here, but again want work rate, teamwork, decisions and passing.

Left winger is set to Inside Forward - Attack. this is because Young normally plays here and he is a right footed player to cut inside. I think this could be changed to a winger if you have a naturally footed player. Pace, creativity, crossing and work rate help here.

The Right winger is Defensive Winger with Attack. Mainly as it's Milner who is a grafter. I like him to pester the full back and press. He counters the opposite players offensive play by being a bit more solid and reliable. However I want him to get involved when we have possession which is why he is attack. Work rate (see the theme here), passing, crossing and team work are key for this lad.

The Attacking midfielder is the key man. He is the Advanced Playmaker with Attack mentality. Here's your main man. I'm lucky with Van der Vaart on loan, he is the perfect man for this spot. If you have a less talented player try attacking midfielder. He takes everything for the team, corners, free kicks etc etc and is expected to be the hub of my play. Creativity is essential as is passing and it would help if he could finish. Not as important to work hard, but if you can find a grafter with the other attributes, it won't hurt!

Finally the Striker. He is a Advance forward with attack mentality. I want him to be the focal point of our play, but get involved more in play than say a poacher. If I had a complete foward I would change this, as yet I don't. In the second season with this I have used 2 main strikers, Agbonlahor and Cardoza (Paraguayan) and he has 22 in 22 so far, Gabby has 15 in mostly sub appearances, so I think this is not a specific attribute role, just the best forward you have. Obviuosly the quicker, stronger better finishers will be better, but any decent striker should do ok as this set up creates chances.

Here is the tactic (This is version 2, it was suggested that the full backs be switched to automatic rather than supprt and this seems to make the defence a bit more solid.)

TACTIC: http://www.nosware.com/tactics.html

Sendspace mirror: http://www.sendspace.com/file/j89654

Please try it and let me know. It worked straight away for me but it was derived from an offensive 4-4-2 with wingers which we had played for 2 months so maybe you'll need a settling in period before it starts to be effective. Any tweaks let me know and feel free to contribute improvements, I want this to be a good long term tactic. The main attribute your team needs per player is Work Rate. This tactic is built around a hard work ethic.

Post #63: Grisales has been using this tactic and has developed it slightly to make it more solid with both central midfielders as ball winning players set to defend, both wingers as Inside forwards and a slightly deeper defensive line. This won him the Bundesliga with Levekusen when predicted to come 8th. As such I have tried to re-create Grisales tweaked version of the tactic and this is posted below, this is set up to be more solid than the v2.0 without compromising any of the attacking flair. Feedback appreciated!

**NEW** Grisales tweaked v3.0: http://www.sendspace.com/file/t7600p

Cheers.

[Mr Hough]

great opening post

[OrangeBurn]

4-2-3-1 Formation is the hardest in the game to play against. I'm not sure if I have ever beat a team playing with it comfortably.

I was actually going to start a thread on how to combat it.

[Crazy Paving]

That was one of the reasons I went with the tactic, I've found the teams I play using it are brilliant, so gave it a go and it's been ok for me so far!

[mmtxt]

Tryed it in cl match agains manchester utd ( my team Juvetus ) and i lost 6-0 .

[Crazy Paving]

Tryed it in cl match agains manchester utd ( my team Juvetus ) and i lost 6-0 .

Not quite the impact I was looking for, I've just drawn 1-1 with Utd in the league with it. Like I said, it is offensive and you need high work rate.

Also I think it can be quite dangerous in FM to change tactics suddenly. If you were to give it a chance (and 6-0 isn't exactly a glowing endorsement) then I'd try starting it in the pre-season.

[FFFJeff]

great opening post

Indeed, excellent post. Will try in another save I have

[Crazy Paving]

I'm quite happy for people to tweak it and improve where they think they can, there are much better tacticians than I here. I'm offering it as a template for development!

[Poize]

Downloaded this and it come up with 2 up top??

Gonna try it with Liverpool, will let you know how I get on.

[Gauvner]

Yeah same as Poize for me, its 2 up front?! Whats that about? or is it just a case of moving one down

[Crazy Paving]

I've uploaded the wrong tactic. The correct tactic has gone up in the OP, this explains the earlier post with the 6-0 defeat.

Anyone who has got the 4-4-2 should bin it and download the new one.

First game of the 2nd season, I'm struggling for good defenders but look at the chances created...

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1287/chancescreated.png

and this is a great result...

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8348/manutdvastonvilla.png

[Wijnand fens]

I give it a try with a lower league club in Holland

FC Dordrecht dutch first division

[Wijnand fens]

I give it a try with a lower league club in Holland

FC Dordrecht dutch first division

start with this tac in the winter stop of the first season, we struggeling, lost 5 in a row

Here the results with your tac

AWAY WIN FRIENDLY 8-0 LAC FRISIA 1883 (LOWER LEAGUE TEAM)

AWAY WIN FRIENDLY 3-2 PKC'83 (LOWER LEAGUE TEAM)

HOME LOSE FRIENDLY 0-1 FC TWENTE

AWAY DRAW LEAGUE 0-0 MVV

AWAY WIN LEAGUE 1-0 HELMOND SPORT

HOME DRAW LEAGUE 2-2 HAARLEM

AWAY DRAW LEAGUE 2-2 DE GRAAFSCHAP (WE NEED A SHUT UP SHOP TAC!!! 2-0 AT THE 80TH MINUTE)

HOME LOSE LEAGUE 1-2 RBC

AWAY LOSE LEAGUE 0-1 EMMEN

HOME LOSE LEAGUE 1-3 CAMBUUR

MAYBE IT IS NOT FOR LOWER LEAGUE, THANKS ANYWAY

[Crazy Paving]

start with this tac in the winter stop of the first season, we struggeling, lost 5 in a row

Here the results with your tac

AWAY WIN FRIENDLY 8-0 LAC FRISIA 1883 (LOWER LEAGUE TEAM)

AWAY WIN FRIENDLY 3-2 PKC'83 (LOWER LEAGUE TEAM)

HOME LOSE FRIENDLY 0-1 FC TWENTE

AWAY DRAW LEAGUE 0-0 MVV

AWAY WIN LEAGUE 1-0 HELMOND SPORT

HOME DRAW LEAGUE 2-2 HAARLEM

AWAY DRAW LEAGUE 2-2 DE GRAAFSCHAP (WE NEED A SHUT UP SHOP TAC!!! 2-0 AT THE 80TH MINUTE)

HOME LOSE LEAGUE 1-2 RBC

AWAY LOSE LEAGUE 0-1 EMMEN

HOME LOSE LEAGUE 1-3 CAMBUUR

MAYBE IT IS NOT FOR LOWER LEAGUE, THANKS ANYWAY

In fairness you said you had lost 5 in a row, then the tactic stabilised you (3 draws and a win) before a losing streak, 2 of which were away from home. I'm assuming you don't have a great team? I think it's a bit harsh to suggest it isn't for the lower league when it's not been too bad considering a mid season change coming off a bad run of form.

For the record in the first full season I have run with it I am 3rd in the Prem with Villa and scoring for fun, beating Man Utd 5-1 at Old Trafford and 4-2 at home. Will post a full review of season when I'm done so it can be evaluated over a longer period of time.

[danjpalmer]

Do you find you concede quite a few clear cut chances? I like the tactic as you get lots of CCC yourself but i'm trying to tweak it a bit to concede fewer goals and chances.

I have lowered the d-line a couple of clicks and put the centre backs on man marking but still not perfect. Have you tweaked it much since you released it?

[Crazy Paving]

Do you find you concede quite a few clear cut chances? I like the tactic as you get lots of CCC yourself but i'm trying to tweak it a bit to concede fewer goals and chances.

I have lowered the d-line a couple of clicks and put the centre backs on man marking but still not perfect. Have you tweaked it much since you released it?

No, I've left it as it was, man to man didn't work. Last season we scored 100 goals in the league but let 50 in, Oscar Cardoza got 40 league goals in 30 games, so the offensive side is ok. Started 3rd season and we are a bit loose at the back, will try a couple of tweaks to see if we can tighten it up. I think I need better defenders but as we missed out on Europe then the best players still won't sign for me.

[danjpalmer]

ah ok, yeah attacking is great, ill try a few tweaks too

[danjpalmer]

I have had some recent success trying the following:

The ball winning midfielder down to DM (not directly below the MC, have one to the left and one to the right).

Centre backs to Limited Defenders

Full backs to Automatic

I am Birmingham City and results since using this:

PSG 0 - 3 Birmingham

Birmingham 0 - 1 Tottenham (very unlucky)

Everton 1 - 2 Birmingham

Man Utd 2 - 3 Birmingham

Admitedly I do have a different team, in my third season.

My ideal line up is:

Joe Hart

Jerome Boateng

Frank Queudrue

Pape Diakhate

Jonny Evans

Moussa Sissoko

Lee Cattermole

Ibrahim Afellay

Carlos Vela

Van Der Vaart

Vagner Love

[mmtxt]

I've uploaded the wrong tactic. The correct tactic has gone up in the OP, this explains the earlier post with the 6-0 defeat.

Anyone who has got the 4-4-2 should bin it and download the new one.

First game of the 2nd season, I'm struggling for good defenders but look at the chances created...

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1287/chancescreated.png

and this is a great result...

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8348/manutdvastonvilla.png

Aww yeah it might be the reason of my huge defeat I tryed your correct tactic in game against Udinese at home and I won 2-0 and Tryed it also in my Ruch Chorzow team ( Polish first league predicted 8th ) and I also won at home against Piast Gliwice 2-0 . I will check this tactic out in few next games and i will give you know how things are going Peace

[Grisales]

I'm giving this tactic a go. Are the "Inside Forward" and "Defensive Winger" instructions key to how the tactic works? Or more just because of Young/Milner specifically.

Started with Chelsea:

GK:Cech

DL: A Cole

DR: Srna

DC: Alex

DC: Terry

MRC: Essien

MLC: Lampard

AMC: Montolivo

AML: Jovetic (Inside forward would be fine for him, but I guess "Winger" for Malouda)

AMR: Joe Cole / Anelka / Obasi (Again, I dont think any of these qualify as "Defensive winger", usually set them as "Winger")

FC: Drogba (Set him to "Complete Forward", or if I use Anelka I leave as "Advanced Forward")

Using my own team talks,and TT training.

Early results seem encouraging, although I have some problems breaking down teams who really set out to defend (Stoke coming to The Bridge for example). Have to go overload in the last 20 minutes to get a late goal.

One thing I like so far is Lampard in the MLC position is doing his classic 'arriving late' and scoring off cutback crosses etc, havnt been able to get him to do this properly in other tactics.

I'll post a more detailed update/analysis later.

[Crazy Paving]

Thanks for the feedback guys, it's been a slow starter tactic on the forums but hopefully this will work out for you. The wingers settings aren't critical, I set it up due to the type of players I have. In season 2 though Young got 30 assists and he wasn't taking corners with the tactics as they are (Milner got 15, not as good but not bad!). My centre forward Oscar Cardoza scored 40 in 31 games.

I'll bob some screenshots up....

Ashley Young 30 assists in 2010/11:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/9194/7ashleyyoung.png

Oscar Cardoza's 40 goals 2010/11:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4404/10oscarcardozo.png

Villa in season 2 was the first chance to test the tactic for a full season. We failed to qualify for Europe the previous season so we struggled to sign top players. I got Van der Vaart who was listed bu Real, Milito from Barca and Cardoza from Benfica. The rest of the team was pretty much the same as the starting squad. Although 5th is pretty achievable with Villa generally, we were in 2nd/3rd all season until injuries killed us in the run in and we drew and lost our last couple of games. I lost a Champions League spot in the last minute when Arsenal won thier game in the 90th minutes and we drew with Everton 2-2.

Anyhow, the main point is the amount of goals we scored in 2010/11:

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3522/fabarclayspremierleague.png

[danjpalmer]

An update on my Birmingham game for you Crazy Paving,

Came 2nd in Prem by one point, quite sure I would have won the league if i'd used the tactic all the way through.

Won the Europe League beating Tottenham 1-0 in the Final

Lost FA Cup Final to Chelsea 3-1 (I don't expect to ever beat Chelsea but didnt play too badly, their players are just lot better than mine lol)

[fonzie]

Switched from my own 4-2-3-1 to crazing paving mid season, 10/11 with atletico madrid. climbed from a poor 5th to 3rd only beaten by a

+100 points Real madrid and by barcelona on goal difference.

the real magic, however, was that i won the champions league! made a counter attacking version of the tactic and beat Barca 3-1 on wembley in the final (Only alteration i did was -3 on mentality for every player, defensive duty on the fullbacks and counter attacking ticked) from scraping through the group stages with my own tac to actually winning was a huge leap

Great tactic, starting season 3 now with huge hopes for the primera title!

[Crazy Paving]

Greast stuff! I'm pleased others are finding this works for them too. When did you use the counter attack tactic? When you were underdogs and ahead? It sounds good.

I was considering a more defensive version of this (in light of the number of goals it lets it) but this sounds like it may already be the answer!

[Kung]

changed to this in middle of my season with Villarreal.

1st and 2nd game was not that impressive,a ****** draw,and a narrow win,followed by a **** draw again,then i was in eurocup group stage,needed a win vs psg away from home,i thrashed them 3-0,following with a legue raping 6-0 ,then a cupmatch vs some obscure team,i fielded a reserve team still won 3-1 looks good for the future...

One thing i found out is that if i use some shouts with the tactic it starts to sccore a bit more,like "pass to feet" "stay on feet" "work ball into box" seems to do the trick when i need to score.. will keep trying the tactic,good job

[NeJebi]

this tactic is the real s h i t

[Gauvner]

My first game with this with Club Burgge, i lost 2-0 to weaker opponents. I only conceded in the 70th minute through a penalty, then from a corner. Going to try for a few more games. How would you start a match though? Counter Attacking or Standard?

[Crazy Paving]

My first game with this with Club Burgge, i lost 2-0 to weaker opponents. I only conceded in the 70th minute through a penalty, then from a corner. Going to try for a few more games. How would you start a match though? Counter Attacking or Standard?

I generally start Standard, but if I was major underdog I would start counter attack. Depends on who you are playing.

Great feedback so far from everyone. Cheers.

[Gauvner]

Cheers Crazy, it seems that the squad may just need time to gel into the tactic.

Also do you ever need to use Control? Or is that one thats just missed out

[Crazy Paving]

Cheers Crazy, it seems that the squad may just need time to gel into the tactic.

Also do you ever need to use Control? Or is that one thats just missed out

I think that may be true, season 3 I signed 3 or 4 new players and over the first 10 games we were a bit hit and miss, despite playing this system for 18 months so I think it takes time to settle. Also it's important the players can pass a bit, are quick at the back and work rate is good for every player.

[Gauvner]

Just playing a cup game against extremely weak opposition, and its taken me untill the first half of extra time to score my 1st goal. I know its not a god tactic, but surely i should be winning this easily?

Ive noticed that ive given away two penalties in two games? any reason?

[Gauvner]

Just noticed that as soon as i bring my striker off and put the AMR in the ST position, he scores 3 goals. May have found a new position for him. Now Ive just romped them 4-1, now that could be because they are extremely tired or Ive had a revelation of players.

[Kung]

Just playing a cup game against extremely weak opposition, and its taken me untill the first half of extra time to score my 1st goal. I know its not a god tactic, but surely i should be winning this easily?

Ive noticed that ive given away two penalties in two games? any reason?

maybe choose "stay on feet" shout,and use the combination i posted before,maybe even change to control instead of standard

[Kung]

i got humped by barca lost 2-4 to them,my 1st loss so far with this tactic,lol eventho it was more of my goalkeepers fault that i lost,2 epic fumbles gave zlatan the ball to just walk in to open goal with lol TWICE!

[Gauvner]

Just got absolutely demolished to a Sh!te team 4-0 no reason either. I have good defenders, yet get beaten in the air constantly. Even if i do what Kung says to try counter it, it doesnt work. Against a team of that caliber i dont expect that result

[Gauvner]

Just got thumped by the same team 3-1 in the cup. I know that we need to mould to the tactic, but im loosing key & important games for reasons i cannot suss

[Crazy Paving]

Just got thumped by the same team 3-1 in the cup. I know that we need to mould to the tactic, but im loosing key & important games for reasons i cannot suss

Who are you and who are you getting beaten by?

[Rooney_08]

im using it as fc united in my 1st season ,ill give you a decent update soon mate on my thoughts and how its working out and if ive tweaked it

[Crazy Paving]

end of season 3, 2nd full season with the tactic. Villa finished 3rd and we won the FA Cup beating Champions Man Utd. Star player was again Ashley Young from left wing with 27 assists, but my strikers weren't quite so prolific, Cardoza managed 17 league goals, less than half of the previous season, and this is the reason I think we failed to challenge. We were 6 points behind Man Utd in the end. We also managed to get to the semi final of the Europa League but Valencia were a bit too strong.

Start of season 3 has seen me splash out big on top defenders and played 5 won 5, scored 15 conceded 3. All I have changed is the full backs to automatic from support. When I watch the game it is the best football I have ever seen any of my teams ever play on any version of FM since the 3D came in!

[shay_1982]

can someone upload this to sendspace or something, filefront keeps saying the link is broken

[Superziemo]

Guys please can You upload it somewhere else because I don't know why but I can't download it. I click the download button and nothing happens. Then I click "click here" to download it manually and the site goes blank

[Superziemo]

I also can't download it. The page goes blank...

[Crazy Paving]

I've edited the opening post with a new Rapidshare link, and a new uploaded Filefront mirror plus, for good luck, a Sendspace mirror. Hope you can get it now.

[danjpalmer1984]

I've edited the opening post with a new Rapidshare link, and a new uploaded Filefront mirror plus, for good luck, a Sendspace mirror. Hope you can get it now.

Are the new posts you're latest tactic with tweaks?

Also the links are still causing issues as none of them seem to work. If you send me the tactic to danjpalmer at hotmail.com then I can upload it to my personal server which will save people a LOT of hassle.

Let me know

[Crazy Paving]

Are the new posts you're latest tactic with tweaks?

Also the links are still causing issues as none of them seem to work. If you send me the tactic to danjpalmer at hotmail.com then I can upload it to my personal server which will save people a LOT of hassle.

Let me know

I've emailed you the latest tactic I am using v2.0 with tweaked full backs. If you can upload this I will add a link to the opening post.

V2.0 has full backs set to Automatic not support and seems a bi more solid at the back.

[danjpalmer1984]

Ok, here is the download page. This should work for everyone, let me know if it doesn't!

http://www.nosware.com/tactics.html

[Gauvner]

Who are you and who are you getting beaten by?

Im Club Brugge and was getting hammered off Lierse ( a newly promoted team)

[cragswfc]

really good post. im sheff wed i was 3-0 down with 30mins gonewith my pre tactic. so i went to yors n lost in the 4-2 but was really impressed with it so i thought i try it in my next game witch was blackpool. went 1 up then i went to counter and ened up wining 5-1 my best res yet. as i ant got beckham's ronaldo' r even craew's of this world this is what made me really wanted to t try yor tactic so in my first 2 game i can say u might b on t a winner ere

[Crazy Paving]

Im Club Brugge and was getting hammered off Lierse ( a newly promoted team)

Fair enough, Brugge should be winning that one. I've put V.2 on the site now, maybe that is worth a try. It seems odd you had such a hard time as most others here seem to be doing ok. Can't blame you if you give up on it though, when I download tactics if they haven't worked for me I tend to bin them no matter how good they are for other people.

[ProEvoRules]

i will give this a try mate with haka, i tried another tactic and i got beat 5 games in a row the jonny one, will see if this is any better