crusadertsar

Don't want to burst your bubble, but you do realize that all the fan tweets are the same? Like 1 positive, 1 negative, 1 neutral. Always that same formula after each match But totally the best thing about FM is that everyone can play it however they want.

Haha sorry I meant "hold shape" team instruction Fixed it

Another constant in all my possession tactics is "hold shape". Never leave tactic creation screen without adding that one.

Getting rid of slow defenders is usually the first priority I tackle when I promote a team up. In top divisions with fast, technical attackers nothing will hurt your defense more than slow CBs. Even if you tell your team to play with lower defensive line.

One Ball playing Defender (with individual instruction to dribble more) alongside a more traditional defender. Invariably I will have this paired with a Sweeper Keeper. In FM24 I stopped using "play out of defence" instruction (i don't like how it pulls my midfielders back and causes issues when I'm pressed by opposition). Instead I prefer to instruct my SK to pass specifically to my BPD who will bring it up by dribbling (has to be a decent dribbler obviously) with it or passing to the midfielders or fullbacks.

Which year do you usually get to?

Very thought-provoking stuff 🤔 Will definitely look forward for more.

Definitely you need a much bigger sample size for this to be a proper experiment. If I am lucky and beat PSG as underdog twice it might seem like they are a crap team just from that sample and from one manager data. But that's not really the case in the game now is it. All I am making is assumptions too. Maybe others can chime who have experimented with this further. Personally, I have a feeling that the difference might be very negligible. Not unless you are using exploitive set piece tricks.

The difference is basically this. If you leave set pieces alone and don't touch any settings then of course you will still score some goals from set pieces. But it won't be as efficient if you were actually to go in and tweak it to suit your team. Some people even to this exploit the match engine, messing with specific set piece settings to score 30+ set piece goals per season. It's still possible in FM24 but I have no idea how to do it. If you allow AI to handle it yourself then the AI will do it with various levels of effectiveness depending on quality of coach its meant to represent, just like AI managers with better attributes do better in matches then ones with terrible ones. Against other AI at least. So yes, set piece coaches with great attributes will score you more goals. And it will probably be more than if you did nothing at all to the set piece settings. But not as good as if you set it up yourself. But that's the whole point. Some people like myself hate dealing with set pieces and rather delegate everything about them to an assistant. It's better than doing nothing at all.

I think what you are doing makes sense. Compressing the defence is always a good thing in Defence-First systems. Meaning pushing the defensive line while at same time maintaining midblock or even lower line of engagement. At this point just test it out and see how you fare against tougher teams. Also, try to get defenders and midfielders with better mental attributes. If you remember back to the 1st page of this thread, I cannot stress how important those are. Good luck and don't give up! @mikcheck I'll try to play some more games and post something this weekend.

Current ability such as physical attributes of newgens is not really controlled by HoYD. For that you would need to increase your Junior Coaching.

I would get Filippo Galli. His favourite formation is 4-4-2 which is pretty close to 4-4-1-1. Also he is a Model Citizen. It's in my opinion the best personality that you could have for HoYD. Newgens who can inherit this personality are very prized. Finally, his attribute spread is the best out of all the choices you showed

I agree with @herne79 you can't really see major issues with a good tactic until you play at least a half dozen competitive matches with it, both at home and away, and see how your players respond to it. The tactic might suit your team really well, or could be the opposite. You won't know until you try. I don't see any major faults with yours aside from it being a little too conservative in role and duty selection. But then I'm not familiar with Notts County team and their status in the league. Where does the media predict you will finish? If it's in the top 5 then I would definitely take more risks with roles or just general team mentality.

I experimented with both and just found us more effective in breaking up those pesky parked buses when playing with CM pivot. I find myself facing more and more of them now. Dropping them down DM strata would definitely make sense for tougher games against superior opponents. Regarding the low crosses, I did have it selected in the previous version of the tactic because Chechu is not the tallest guy but is rather fast. But then my main backup Sadiq came back from a loan this season and he is great at jumping so AI thought "mixed" would better benefit both of them.

Having the best possible set piece coach is a huge advantage. Personally I always hated tinkering with set pieces so having the ability to leave this to AI has been a godsend in FM24. Best feature haha.

It seems to affect the defensive positioning too by bringing him closer to DLP when we are out of possession. Anyway thats what I noticed in watching the games on full. It could be just that he doesn't get back into wider position as fast after going inside. Sort of lingering there. If I have time I might try to show some examples from screenshots.

That's one of the reasons I instruct Mendez to stay narrower, for his defensive positioning. At the same time as a WM he is more likely to cover the flank. Especially with "close down more" instruction active. Think of WM role as a wider BBM role. Adding "roam from position" instruction might also be a good idea. Regarding the AMC, I am comfortable playing him on Attack duty just because it's Oyarzabal due to his high Workrate. He works his socks off in every single game. If it was any other player then I would probably switch to Support duty with more aggressive individual instructions to get forward when in possession. @Cloud9 I know right! He is a tremendous player I take it "evasive" is a good thing? Nice!

Regarding the WM, the narrower positioning and roaming is exactly why I love the role and prefer it over DW. I need him to play as a sort of wide box to box midfielder with more liberty to go forward and support th AM in the middle. And that's exactly what Mendez does for me. He alone adds so much much to the system, I am kind of worried what will happen when I lose him next summer as his contract will expire. But luckily I acquired Aimar on relatively cheap (for 30 million when Pamplona got relegated last season). He is even more technical than Mendez. But unfortunately his Work Rate is not quite as good.

Haha, I like SV a lot but I needed a solid double pivot in midfield and SV wouldn't do that for me, especially with new changes to it's behavior in FM24. With the BWM and DLP I get what I am looking for. The tactic is far from perfect. Still tweaking it. As a matter of fact I'm wondering whether I might need to change WM to attack duty or maybe add "get further forward" instruction. To better achieve 4-2-3-1 in attack.

For those not sure where the new change of shape came from should check out my other thread We got a really great discussion going there about the defensive and attacking advantages of solid "two banks of four" formation. You could even view my 4-4-1-1 with Real Sociedad as heavily inspired by Liverpool tactics from 1980s. Especially if you view the role of Dalglish as more of an Advanced Midfielder.

Well I wouldn't say 180 turn. Did you even read the update? It plays the same as 4-2-3-1 in attacking phase due to mentalities and roles. But has the added benefit of a more solid defensive shape. That's the point of this thread afterall I experimented with both 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-1-1 over the length of the season and gotta say 4-4-1-1 version is way better. For my team at least. It leaks less goals and performs way better against elite teams in Champions League. 4-2-3-1 almost got me sacked in fact. Why don't yoy try it for yourself?

Thank you sir How different? Different from the one I discussed in Valverde update? That's true. It is 4-4-1-1 afterall Or did you mean different from the screenshot I posted in this latest update?

Tribulations and Joys of Basque Club Management - Developing my Defence-First 4-4-1-1 Tactic I gotta say that trying to implement a strict Basque-only policy at Real Sociedad has been nothing if not a challenge. Part of that probably had to do with the fact that from the start of the game the club has not really been planned in this way. At the start of my save in 2023, some of the key players, such as primary striker and most wide players, were not Basque. So it took me nearly 5 seasons to find/develop suitable Basque replacements. All while trying to settle on the best possible "Defence-First" tactic for my collection of local stars. And in 2027 year in-game I'm starting to think that we have made some progress in both areas. I really like the balanced tactics that I am seeing on the pitch, and I like my Basque players even more. Especially the newgens! Although I have to say it hurt alot to have to pass on this beautiful newgen. Trully a reincarnation of Courtois! Particularly when I could have had him for under 3 million. But alas he is not Basque As a consolation prize (and mostly to make myself feel better) I ended up buying this young keeper from Pamplona (so far they have been my best source of young Basque newgens in case you were wondering). Inigo does not have quite as good current ability (CA) as Hoyenhall but looks like his long-term potential might be much better. And most importantly he is very determined to improve. Determination still makes a big difference in how well (and fast) a youngster can reach his full potential. Therefore, I cannot wait to see what Inigo's profile will look like in another two years of getting 2nd Division playing experience with our B Team. So far, despite a few temptations and close calls, I am sticking to my guns and and focusing on Basque players. And honestly I have been lucky in more ways than one in getting some exceptional youth players in such a short time with the club. But more on that later. The only exception to the rule would be any non-Basques coming through my own "Cantera" academy. Defending as 4-4-1-1, Attacking as 4-2-3-1 The tactical objective still remains the same. To create an effective fluid 4-4-2 tactic that is more focused on passing the ball around and attacking through intelligent movement. NOT through stifling the opponent via incessant high pressing or booting the ball long to the attackers. Neither are we after a possession-heavy Tiki-Taka approach. Instead I'm looking for a more nuanced formation that uses 4-4-2 as a basis for defence but then attacks in a different shape (4-2-3-1) that is more conductive to maintaining ball control, creating overloads and following it up with fast attacking transitions. I'm hoping that this attacking shape can help us to better break down stubborn defensive sides (which I have been facing more and more due to increasing club reputation). Such hybrid formation is meant to fit with the strengths of Real Sociedad squad. At the start of the game it is not a very physical squad. And 4 years later it's still very much the case. On the other hand, we are lucky to possess some very clinical attackers (and some fast ones) as well as some very technical and mentally-strong midfielders. Even then, we won't be breaking down opposition with pure Pace and Strength but with Teamwork, hard Work and precise Technique and Passing. We might have less chances than the typical "balls-to-the-wall" Gegenpress side but we are sure to make the best of the ones we do have. It's all part of my Pragmatic "Defence-First" approach to FM - clinical precision and solid defence over brute force aggressive attack. So definitely it takes a special sort of tactic to suit this kind of style. It took quite a bit of tactical tweaking and watching many matches almost in full to arrive at the tactic you see now. Although I really wouldn't recommend tweaking tactics too much during the season. But I am a tactical tinkerer through and through and always enjoy that aspect of the game the most. Even if it causes a bad drop in form during the middle of the season (which almost cost me my job last season had we not qualified for Champions League due to a late surge in form and thanks to an earlier version of the following tactic). So without further ado, meet my current iteration of 4-4-1-1. 1. Advanced Forward - in a more direct fast-transition/counter tactic, you cannot go wrong with a "spearhead" role like AF. And I especially love the more technical spearheads. A player that can stay high up and run off the shoulder of opposition defenders. But not quite in the one-dimensional Poacher fashion. If you are lucky to get a more creative technical player as your Advance Forward then this role can really come into its own. Chechu is turning into a tremendous player for Real Sociedad and with loads more untapped potential. Hard to believe that I only bought him for measly 750 000 euros from Gijon. Because of his attributes I give him individual instruction to "dribble more" and "take more risks". 2. Winger is another key role in my tactic. Here I like to slot my other little lethal attacker in the making and current crown jewel in this Basque squad. The main requirements for this role are tons of speed and good attacking instincts. Although technical skills like Crossing and Dribbling help out too, especially if you intend to play same-side-foot player here. I instruct the role to cut inside so if you slot a player with the opposite dominant foot to the side, it's probably even better. The intention is for the role to initially stretch the play on that side and create nice overload with the fullback but then in the final third to cut inside and finish off any chances not taken by our striker. Despite his tender age Cristian Villanueva is starting to look like a one of the best young graduates of Real Sociedad's "Cantera". His pacey counter-attacking runs and timely goals is probably what helped me keep my job last season when every point mattered in the tight contest for the last remaining Champions League place. Right now he is unfortunately out for a few weeks with minor injury but I intend to keep him in this side in every game if possible. The only individual instruction is "cut inside" to make his behavior less predictable and to better take advantage of his goal-scoring prowess. Little side note: Those who are interested in doing youth academy saves you probably noticed what I am doing with the nickname I put "Y25" as short for "Class of 2025 grad". I am bit crazy that way as I like to track how many of my future stars will come from a specific intake. It's little details that like that keep you playing the same save well past the first 4-5 seasons. 3. AMC Position. The club veteran and captain Mikel Oyarzabal is probably the best player for the AMC role. Just a simple generic Advance Midfielder role and for a good reason. I intend it to be an important link-up role between attack and midfield. And for that reason I don't need anything fancy or complicated. Not that it's a simple role to fill. If anything it's one of the demanding specialist roles in this tactic. Besides the obvious technical requirements (he needs both above average passing and finishing ability), mental attributes are key here. While Oyarzabal is a sort of deep/creative striker, he is even more valuable for his good Workrate and Teamwork to drop deeper to pick up the ball and help out the midfield in the press. You cannot afford to have a fancy Trequartista floating around here. I like the AMA (A) because it starts positioned deeper than any other AMC role (besides the AM on Support) and still be available to launch forward to support counters and generally act like a Shadow Striker given the right individual instruction. And that is exactly why I give Oyarzabal these instructions: "get further forward", "move into channels", "roam from position" and "take more risks". Think of him as my deep-lying Shadow Striker. Already at 396 appearances for the club! My main "one club man" for Real Sociedad. Not quite Xabi Prieto level yet (479 apps) but getting there. 4. The other wide midfielder role is arguably the other specialist role in the formation. Wide Midfielder is very important to how this tactic works. In fact, the reason that I went with 4-4-1-1 is because of this role. WM role is one of my all-favourite FM roles and it only exists in flat formation in the midfield strata. I could have went with 4-2-3-1 with an advanced playmaker or even inverted winger (and I even tested that specific iteration of the tactic) but it simply didn't offer the same solid defensive shape, nor the same kind of transition from flat four banks defence to quick transition in attack. Some say that 4-4-1-1 is a poor man's 4-2-3-1. If anything I believe the opposite 4-2-3-1 is a poor interpretation of 4-4-1-1 because while it offers very similar attacking shape (which is very easy to create with 4-4-1-1) it is very hard to create the same solid defensive positioning that a good old 4-4-1-1 offers. Even if you play both wide players on support. This was actually possible back in the FM2014 days but that was because back then we could play Defensive Wingers in AMLR strata. Amazing right!? Man, I miss those days so much. Sure the tactic creator and the match engine realism got much better over the years but we lost a few things in the process. It still boggles me to this day why we lost this DW role variation since FM14. Anyway, going back to FM24 and WM. The kind of player that is perfect here is basically a Roaming Playmaker type or a creative Box-to-Box Midfielder if you will (which is exactly what RPM is if you look at the role under the hood). He needs to be an all-rounder in terms of his physical, mental and technical attributes. When looking for a perfect player you should first ask yourself, would I be comfortable sticking him in my midfield, or would he be a liability there? If he is good enough to play as BBM then he should be good enough to play the WM role. And if he can cross the ball and pass it accurately then you got yourself a great candidate, like my Mendez here. Mendez possess most of the qualities I look for in a great WM: great Stamina, Workrate, Teamwork, Passing, Off The Ball, Decisions, Composure, Anticipation. And decent Tackling and Positioning as well. As an added bonus he is left-footed playing on the right wing. Meaning that he will naturally tuck in and play narrower. From this position he can combine rather well with both central AM and AF, or form passing triangles with DLP and the right FB. And most importantly, when defending in our flat two banks of four shape, the WM acts as another hardworking midfielder which gives us a numerical advantage when combined with BWM and DLP. The Wide Midfielder role, unlike the more advance wide attacker roles, is more aggressive in following, pressing and tackling opponents. The only individual instructions I currently use are" "cut inside with the ball" and "sit narrower". I might add others as I see fit. I am especially debating about "get further forward" but I have to watch a few more games this season to see if its really necessary. The beauty of WM(S) role is just how customizable it is. So many individual instructions can be added to make it play just how you want. Or you could choose not to add any at all just allow the player's own attributes and traits to dictate how plays and makes the role his own. Final note is that my current best WM is however not destined for much more time with the team. Mendez is not Basque so I will be letting him go when his contract expires next summer (unless a buyer comes knocking before). Luckily I already have the "heir apparent" for the WM role training in our "Jong Real Sociedad" team. The youngster still has quite a way to go in his long-term development. But hopefully with playing experience in Spain's 2nd Division (our B Team got promoted last season!) he will be closer to prime time in another year or so. 5. The very important Double Pivot in midfield. No 4-4-1-1 (or 4-2-3-1 for that matter) can function without a solid double pivot. All attacks have to be built on a strong foundation of defence, support and creativity in central midfield. I would say those are the three primary function of all Double Pivots (and in that specific order). My two Central Midfielders need to defend their space well, offer support to the more attacking runners around them and at least one of the two CMs needs to be more creative to add a bit more flair and unpredictability to our midfield whether through the occasional through ball or pin-point pass towards the attackers. I am not exactly looking for the next Pirlo here but a hard-working Paul Scholes will do. DLP is an important element in our pivot because he contributes to the overload on the right flank. Together with the rather creative WM and the charging FB, the DLP is instrumental in attracting the opposition to that side while giving more space for our left Winger and AF to find and exploit on the left flank and centrally. "Overload" concept is something I have been working on since my earliest days playing FM and I feel like its working especially well in this particular 4-4-1-1. Could be the tactic, or maybe the players In fact I currently I have two very young candidates for this deep creative role competing in the B Team. The 16 year old model citizen Daniel Sanz: Or the even younger but very driven 15 year old Gaizka Bilbao, a San Sebastien native and graduate of our own "Cantera" academy just this past summer. Seeing his attribute profile I felt no qualms about throwing him right into 2nd Division in his first season (skipping the u19 team almost entirely). He is just that good! And already showing it in competing against players twice his age. There is a good chance that I might be able to play both of them at the same time eventually (once Oyarzabal retires and the primary AMC spot opens up) but that's still quite a few years in the future and who knows how their development will go. That's the joy of youth development in FM24. Finally, to finish with the Double Pivot, a quick look at the other important side of it: Ball-Winning Midfielder. The true workhorse of the midfield duo. And who better embody this role than Real Sociedad's ever present Mikel Merino. He is definitely one of our most valuable player (you would not believe how many times I had to slap away those greedy Saudi clubs haha) and I could not ask for a better player for the BWM role. He might not be the best in the class for it but he is the best Basque in this role in 2028 and that is all that matters to me. Merino is Aggressive, Brave, Determined, good Teamplayer and an even better Hard Worker with good Stamina and Strength. He is also a very good Passer and above average Tackler. He has above average Jumping Reach. In other words, he fits the role of the ball-winner rather well. And a good pairing with a more creative Deep-Lying Playmaker. Win the ball quickly and pass it on to the more creative players and then join in the counter-attack if possible, "Hold Position" is the only individual instruction I set for this role. 6. Ball-Playing Defender. I always like to have one in combination with a Sweeper Keeper. Even if I don't specifically instruct my players to "Play the Ball Out of Defence", I like to create a natural link between our keeper and defence. Because naturally the keeper will seek out our BPD (I even instruct him do so just to make sure). Then at the same time our Ball-Playing Defender has the added instruction to "dribble more" to bring the ball further forward towards the midfield. Our primary BPD is more than capable of doing this, even if he is getting a bit older and slower. It's can be a rather risky strategy sometimes, but it's mostly beneficial because it minimizes on the number of times that we can lose the ball stupidly when the keeper just boots it long up the field to be intercepted by opposition midfielders. When we can progress the ball quickly via more technical and less direct route to our DLP there is a much better chance that we can hold on to it longer and actually do something dangerous with it. 7. Finally not much to say about the tactical instructions. I already mentioned all the individual instructions. The general team instructions I usually try to keep as minimal as needed to get my general tactical style across. So in this case I tried to included only the ones which would actually aid us in absorbing the opposition pressure during defending phase and to then transition fast into attacking phase. Most of this is conveyed through our choice of Team Mentality (Positive) and roles and duties (which I already mostly discussed). Furthermore, if you really like how this tactic looks then be sure to stay tuned for further updates coming to this thread. Or maybe if you just like to see more pics of newgens from our Real Sociedad's Cantera! I know you like those And below this is the tactic download for those who want to test out the tactic. Word of caution: it is not meant to be a plug-and-win tactic as I really created it with my specific players in mind. But if you think your team has similar players to fit the roles then by all mean be my guest. And be sure to report back on your experience. Happy managing! TACTIC: DefenceFirst4-4-1-1.fmf

That sounds like a proper challenge Good luck. And very good testing ground for counter-style system. I actually didn't think about pitch dimensions but what you are saying is spot on. Long and narrow sounds like it would work better with the tactic.

Well if that's the case I don't understand what you are trying to achieve by starting this topic in the tactics section of the forum. You know this forum is for people seeking help for their tactics. Do you maybe want to show us your tactic so we can see how we can help you with not getting as many "boring" results?