crusadertsar

Shadow Strikers, Positional Play, and Versatility of 4-2-3-1 Shadow Striker Role I was recently inspired to integrate a Shadow Striker into my tactic (thanks to @Tsuru). But it's a tricky role to get to work in FM24 and one that invariably requires some specific conditions in order to thrive. Firstly, it required a switch to a more top-heavy formation. 4-4-1-1 > 4-2-3-1. With a Shadow Striker, any formation could work but to get the best results you need to bring your AMC strata closer to the opposition. You don't necessarily need to switch to an all out high-pressing gegenpress 4-2-3-1 but getting at least 4 of your attackers closer to the opposition defence will help in both creating overloads and opening spaces for your Shadow Striker to operate in. Mid-block could still work for an exceptionally pacey shadow striker but I would advise against it. Secondly, having roles that cater to the Shadow Striker's movement really helps. Shadow Striker operates primarily through the middle channel and for him to be effective he needs both wide attackers providing width (at least most of the time) and a central striker who is both mobile and intelligent enough to draw opposition defenders out of position and provide support to his Shadow Striker partner. Inside Forwards are not suited as early on they will try to attack the same spaces as SS and will take the limelight away from your SS. Similarly IW, even with stay wider instruction, might still congest your central space. Winger, on the other hand, especially one that operates on the side opposite from his dominant foot, fits well with SS movement. He will cut in, but much later during attacking phase, after the shadow striker made his own move. Some argue for the merits of pairing Targetman-type forward with a Shadow Striker. But I don't believe he is mobile enough for what SS needs. False 9 has traditionally been paired with SS for best results. Yet one does not necessarily need a striker that drops very deep to make space for SS. Mobile strikers like Advanced Forward or Complete Forward can both work very well in occupying opposition defenders and creating space for the AMC to operate in. Advanced Forward will push the defenders back and dribble to the flanks at times which will open channels for your SS. CF will act similarly but will also hold up the ball and provide more traditional support at times. If you have the right player then pairing CF with SS is an ideal combination. Otherwise AF is my next best choice. Another thing to note in the tactic above, is that I went with a central alignment for both striker and shadow striker. Some might suggest that offsetting the SS is preferable, and it works in some situations, but I have my reason. When you offset (play one more to the right/left and the other in the opposite direction) then you invariably limit their runs to only use that specific channel (either left or right depending of their offset side). This will make your attacking movement much more predictable and easier for AI to block. On the other hand, central vertical alignment will allow both players more freedom of movement to choose which channel to attack. This off course only works when you choose a striker with "move into channels" hardcoded instruction (such as CF or AF). And another reason why I would not pair a static striker like TF or Poacher with a Shadow Striker. Positional Play's Versatility As many of you know already know, this year’s match engine had some rather significant changes in how some roles behave and move when out-of-possession (defending) versus in-possession (during attacking phase). Specifically, there are now roles in FM that actively change position from one strata to another. This is designed to accommodate changing tactical shapes: one for defending and one for attacking. One of the central tenets of Juego Posicional (Positional Play). In short to accommodate Positional Play, the following roles behave like this: Inverted Fullback - moves from FB to CD. Inverted Wingback - from FB or WB to DM. Libero - from CD to DM/ Halfback (from DM to CD) – when offset (not central) then he will still cause the two CBs to go wider. Segundo Volante – from DM to AM. Roaming Playmaker – from DM or CM to AM. Box to Box Midfielder – from CM to AM. CM (A) – from CM to AM. Due to these Positional Play changes, possession-heavy styles of football has become more effective than ever. When I use some of these "positional play-inclined" roles in my tactic, then I will get the following shape during possession. A staggered front five (or 4-1 if you will) supported by 3-2 in defence and midfield. A very solid attacking 3-2-4-1 shape, especially in regards to maintaining possession and central build-up. Despite his deep starting position, the Segundo Volante will move up next to your Shadow Striker (due to his hidden positional play coding) while the SS will drift more right and therefore will be ideally positioned to attack the right channel Note how the Libero moves up to form a defensive double pivot with my DM(S). While at the same time a Back-Three is formed with the two Inverted Fullbacks and Ball-Playing Centreback. There is definitely some Match Engine "magic" at play here because in all of my experiments with creating a Back Three in possession, the only role combination that created an ideal spread of the three defenders has been the one with two IFDs and Libero BPD combination in the back. As you can see in the heatmap of the image below. The back three spread to provide us with nice rest defence while the Libero moves up into staggered pivot position with the DM. It does not mean that he always stays back. In fact, in almost regista-like fashion your libero will pop up further upfield to help recycle possession and to support your forwards with pinpoint passes. Not surprisinly, you will need a very good player for the libero role. I am currently using a retrained Defensive Midfielder Mikel Merino who fits the deep defensive playmaker role perfectly. When I tested this with one Inverted Wingback(S), BPD(D), CD(D) and IFB, the three in back of BPD, CD and Inverted Defensive Fullback would not form the nice spread out defensive trio even as the Inverted Wingback and DM(S) formed the double pivot ahead of them. The IFB, Libero, BPD(D) (or CD if you don't have the right player) IFD combination is really ideal when trying to create a 3-2 build-up shape. It also happens to be very defensively solid. These are my statistics this season (while using the above 4-2-3-1 for majority of the games). The 2027-28 season has certainly had the best start so far due to this 4-2-3-1 tactic. Only 13 goals conceded in 21 League games. And our 19 y.o wonderkid Chechu made the role of Shadow Striker into his own with 10 goals scored so far. As an example, this was a game where he scored a hat-trick and we absolutely dominated the opposition as you can see in the match stats. The nice 3-2 in the back attack shape ensures that our ball progression goes mainly through the middle to feed the Shadow Striker. This is just fine when facing most of the opposition which is equal or slightly better than us. But in some matches we happen to be up against a parked bus where the inferior opposition already congests the middle of the field in hopes of stopping our advance. In such cases I make a little change to the tactic to make it play completely different and make us into a more direct wide threat. Note, that in this case, I always play a right Winger with a dominant left foot to make him naturally cut inside late in our attack and make more space for our attacking wingback. At the same time our Half-back will drop back to form a back three again with the IFB and BPD.

Your left side is completely exposed when you lose the ball. With wingback, inside forward and mezzala all actively trying to get forward and not caring so much about defending. Combine that with your very aggressive defending instructions and you got a recipe for disaster. Where is your "rest defence" here? In lower leagues you probably got lucky and didn't get too punished with this sort of defensively sloppy set up but in France's elite division you cannot play like this and expect not to concede tons of goals. Fix your left side and you will probably improve your results.

And what makes you say that defence first football is not possible with current ME? How many test saves have you run? What kind of defensive tactics? Making baiting general statements with no factual proof is generally considered to be bad form on these forums. And people who make such statements are taken even less seriously. So who is the real "joker" in this case?

It's funny but long ball football is all I could remember playing in FM14. Don't know what happened with all the games since.

I'm not sure I understand the fitness issues people are talking about. Sure some of his players lost fitness from playing in the recent match but that's normal. And there are still 3 days until next match. They can all be rested. The bigger problem is that he is not using his subs at all. You really have to rotate your team or otherwise you are done for when hit with injuries. I understand though in lower league sometimes you don't feel like using anything other than your 1st team choices because your rotation choices are so bad. I played saves where I mostly used my 1st team in very low league. It's very tricky though and requires a lot of micromanagement in resting players between matches. And you have to have some luck in avoiding injuries. But when you have very little team depth in quality, it could make a difference in winning more matches. But once you advance into higher leagues this becomes impossible due to match schedule congestion.

I don't think the OP understands that success in this game is so much more than just having a decent tactic. Tactic alone is not enough.

If you put it that way, maybe FM is just not for you. It's a hardcore sports management simulation game, not a Pokemon-like collection game like FIFA.

Yeah I know but their development will never be as good as if they were playing real games. Ideally it's always better if they are playing 1st team minutes somewhere, even if it's 3rd League in Spain, rather then if game just auto-generates their stats.

Neither. Loan them out. Since they won't get real game time (unless you always schedule friendlies for your B team). Older players won't be played in u19 team because of the rules. While to my knowledge Andorra would not have a "real" B Team in a competitive league like Barcelona or Real Sociedad have. It's just a reserve team for which you constantly have to schedule friendlies yourself if you want players there to get any game time.

I am currently working on something Brazilian and with Positional Play elements. This year's ME is too good not to integrate the new position switching into any tactic, Jogo Bonito included. I love the fact that it made it easier than ever to defend (out of possession shape, the one you see in tactic creator) in one way and attack (in possession) in completely different way. For Brazilian football this means that the narrow Magic Box tactic is better than ever. Now we can actually have a decent way to defend the flanks while keeping the narrow attack and ball progression as lethal as ever before. Anyway I will write more in-detail on this soon. So stay tuned

I haven't played geggenpress yet in FM24 but in FM23 I used this combo of "high line of engagement" and "prevent distribution" to much success to push opposition keeper and defenders into errors where they would lose composure and just boot the ball long upfield where my central midfielders and CBs had a field day intercepting such panicked passes. This is the reason why you can never go wrong with having good jumpers in the midfield. I stopped doing this in FM23 because it just felt like an exploit after awhile. Not sure if it's still as effective in FM24.

It can work but its not ideal. You will get best results from "prevent short" instruction when using gegenpress type tactics and formation. For example a top heavy formation like 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4 coupled with high defensive line and high line of engagement. Not to say that it wont block with "midblock", just wont get the best results from it.

I don't even know why this thread is still up. It's not contributing anything to tactical discussion about set pieces. Just a platform for OP to complain about his favourite corner exploit tactic not working anymore.

Thanks, I'm glad you are enjoying the thread Shadow Striker is one of my favourite roles in FM and in every version of the game I usually try to create a tactic to get the best out of it. It's fun and challenging/frustrating at the same time. Frustration often comes from the fact that you need a specific type of player to excell in this role. A mix of great mentals of a midfielder with attacking technical instinct of a striker and not to mention relatively good acceleration/pace. Bayern's Muller used to be my go-to player for this role but he is starting to lose his legs due to age. In FM24, Aston Villa's Ollie Watkins looks like he might be almost perfect for this role. Exceptional workrate married to great finishing, off the ball and physical attributes. I think you are right about the tactic getting too overloaded in the middle. To create more space for your SS you will need to play wider. Use W(S) on one flank and then another supporting role like IW(s) or even WM(S) on the other flank. Then at least one fullback/wingback to also provide width. The trick is also not to take away from from your Shadow Striker's limelight by using IF. I would really focus on overloading the opposition down the middle via SS and maybe another central attack like SV(A) but if you do that make sure to have an inverted wingback tuck inside to cover for the Segundo Volante who will move into AM strata due to Positional Play.

If you actually want to get some contribution/help from like-minded FM players, then post about this in downloads section where game exploits and "meta" tactics are discussed and shared. https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/67-tactics-sharing-centre-uploaddownload/ Every time a new patch comes out, Match engine exploits like some set piece routines are "broken". So you probably will get most help about this in section of forum that deals with those kinds of tactics, not here. PS: this last patch was a data patch so I don't even think anything about ME was changed. So not even sure what your problem is.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The claim that this year's ME is only geared towards Geggenpress attacking is a lazy response that doesn't take many factors into account. In fact that claim has been around since FM19 or FM20 at least or around the time when geggenpress changes (counterpress instruction, line of engagement, ect) to tactics creator have been around. Sure you could download one of them "meta" Geggen tactics (you know which ones, especially those with maxed tactical intensity in the red zone and every single team instruction selected) and then win every trophy with Luton. Or you could actually take time and set up your defence so it actually makes sense and fits with your team. Or actually check which opposition you play or whether it's Away or Home game. Make little tweaks match to match, rest your key players. Give team talks and maintain good morale. That takes time and effort and is most definitely not lazy. And it shows via results, especially in defending stats.

Tactical section is not a place for this discussion. Especially regarding outside links from other sites

When you play Inside Forward on attack, what role do you play your primary central striker in? Surely not attacking one like AF? Otherwise they would be occupying the same area, contesting the space, no?

The best way to create that is probably just a basic 4-4-1-1 with DLF (or False 9) and Shadow Striker in AMC position. Had good success with that so far. Although mind you my AMC is not even traditional SS role, just a generic AM(A).

Don't want to burst your bubble, but you do realize that all the fan tweets are the same? Like 1 positive, 1 negative, 1 neutral. Always that same formula after each match But totally the best thing about FM is that everyone can play it however they want.

Haha sorry I meant "hold shape" team instruction Fixed it

Another constant in all my possession tactics is "hold shape". Never leave tactic creation screen without adding that one.

Getting rid of slow defenders is usually the first priority I tackle when I promote a team up. In top divisions with fast, technical attackers nothing will hurt your defense more than slow CBs. Even if you tell your team to play with lower defensive line.

One Ball playing Defender (with individual instruction to dribble more) alongside a more traditional defender. Invariably I will have this paired with a Sweeper Keeper. In FM24 I stopped using "play out of defence" instruction (i don't like how it pulls my midfielders back and causes issues when I'm pressed by opposition). Instead I prefer to instruct my SK to pass specifically to my BPD who will bring it up by dribbling (has to be a decent dribbler obviously) with it or passing to the midfielders or fullbacks.

Which year do you usually get to?