Andrew James
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Posts posted by Andrew James
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@noobcakethanks a lot for your analysis and detailed post
2 hours ago, noobcake said:They are down ~12.5 points of CA at 25 years old compared to players at game start
Could you let us know what league setup you used for this test? This kind of drop-off would usually indicate a decent proportion of the players playing in inactive leagues. Some decrease in inactive nations can be expected, as the higher CA players are prioritised for inclusion at game start, and we don't boost newgens to keep this constant as it would be too easy to pick up high quality youth players.
Internally, we're seeing CA rates remain very stable at Active clubs - and as has been mentioned above in thread, other factors beyond progression feed into this, such as AI transfers and team selection.
We're still looking into ways we can balance out the progression rates in inactive leagues, and whilst I'm glad to see more evidence that attribution distribution isn't "broken" anymore, it's still an area we're not fully satisfied with and are looking to improve further.
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14 hours ago, jar_11 said:I holidayed until September 2027. Here is my Gavi for comparison and some others...
Glad to see these improvements match up with what we've had internally
10 hours ago, jar_11 said:still have issues finding full backs who can cross
Yeah unfortunately this is one area we're aware can still be improved. It's a particularly difficult one due to the weighting the attribute has for that position, but it's definitely still on our radar and we'll keep trying to make a breakthrough. Another similar case is Finishing for some forward players.
Worth a reminder that it is still intentional for there to be *some* players who are good despite not having the best Technical attributes, and we don't want all newgen profiles trending towards the same attribute patterns.
3 hours ago, diLLa88 said:I tried to progress the holidaying this night, but the game crashed while only being in september 2022
On a separate note, if you have the last save before this crash I'm sure our Crash support team would appreciate if you could upload it and log a post on our bug tracker
Thanks again all!
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Quick update on this - latest build has improvements for Attribute balancing, with Technicals now progressing at a much better rate
If you still find any examples of players with extreme attribute profiles (Mental 20s, very low Technicals etc.) then could you start a new thread on the bug tracker, please.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this is a complex area and can affect different save game setups in different ways, so all the info really is greatly appreciated.
Fewer active leagues will tend to mean fewer high CA players in the long term, but the attribute balancing should be similar regardless of active/inactive league.
Tweaks to this area are always ongoing and we're aware that a few areas could still be improved, thanks again for the help so far!
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Hi all, just wanted to confirm that the balancing with attribute progression is a known issue and under review.
Future fixes will be save game compatible and will affect player progression from that point forward, rather than retrospectively alter any attributes.
Player progression is a complex area and delicate balancing act with nearly every other part of the game feeding into it one way or another, so your patience is greatly appreciated while we iron out the issues. Results can also be impacted by save game and database setups, so thanks for the feedback so far and if you have any extreme examples or new info, a post on the bug tracker is always welcomed
Thanks!
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On 15/12/2021 at 09:30, vikeologist said:
Anyway @Andrew James how / where do you want us to progress this discussion?
I'd say the best place to progress the discussion is in a thread like this - and if you find specific examples of Dynamic National Youth Ratings not working as you'd expect, then to log a new post in our bug tracker outlining the change you'd expect to see and why (ideally with reference to comparable situations in real life, if possible!). We can then assess whether the example is a bug, or a situation not accounted for by the current system which may require a Feature Request.
Something I'd again like to reiterate is that NYR is not the only factor that goes into the quality of newgens produced in a nation, and many of the other factors included in the calculations are themselves also dynamic, and so it is still possible to improve the quality of player coming through in a nation, even if their NYR growth is restricted by Financial Status.
I think it's important in these discussions to correctly define exactly what National Youth Ratings quantify in game - they impact the quality of newgen generating at *every* club in that nation, so in real terms, can be thought of as along the lines of the nation's grass roots structure and youth football pyramid.
In the bug tracker thread I mentioned that we want to keep things realistic, and I think this was misunderstood slightly, so to clarify - we absolutely want it to be possible for users to achieve the "unrealistic" in game, but we want our game to then respond to those feats in a realistic manner. The issue here is that there is a lack of real world evidence for what the realistic impact would be from a smaller nation winning a World Cup - which is why these discussion threads are so useful, so thanks to everyone who's contributed.
I think two of the most relevant examples of recent times to this debate are Zambia and Belgium. Zambia were surprise winners of AFCON 2012, and whilst that may have shone a spotlight on the nation as a potential talent pool, with more Zambians based in Europe than previously, nearly 10 years on from that tournament, their national ranking has actually decreased. Belgium are at the backend of a golden generation that seemed to appear from nowhere, have been a major force at several tournaments and spent a lot of time ranked number 1 in the world - and although they do have some good talent coming through, it seems likely that a period of regression lies ahead and that Lukakus, KDBs and Hazards won't be the new normal.
Obviously the potential of this feature has captured the imagination for a lot of users, so if you disagree with any of the above then please (politely
) let me know. We're always looking for ways to improve the game and I agree this feature can still be improved (personally I like the idea of trying to tie national team performance and league reputation into a nation's Game Importance and Financial Status scores, which would then feed into NYR long-term - but I think, by definition, that all NYR changes should always be very gradual).
Hope that all made sense!
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Hi @therealpete
I've had a look at your save - could you confirm that the player in question is Lloyd Noswroth?
By sending him on an individual rest for 2 weeks twice in a row (4 weeks total), I've managed to get his Fatigue level to return to "Fresh".
This may seem like quite an extreme action to take but it is working as intended.
"Fatigue" is designed in game to represent a player's "long term fitness" so just a few days of rest won't have enough of an impact to remove all the fatigue a player has gained from training and matches (even if only a few sub apps!).
As it seems this player has only just been moved to first team squad, it's likely he won't have been a part of the first team's pre-season training, which is where players build up this long term fitness and get some credit in the bank - I'd guess that this is why he is showing some signs of low fatigue already.
It's also worth mentioning that "Low" fatigue isn't really something to be concerned about and should be expected in all players at some point during the season. I don't think difference between "Fresh" and "Low" fatigue levels are worth sending a player on a 4 week break mid season for, but hopefully you'll see the player return fresh for next season and with a proper pre-season he'll have a better chance of retaining that level for longer
Hope that all makes sense and let me know if you have any questions.
Cheers.
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Hi @Fredholm, apologies for the delay in getting back to you. Do you happen to still have a save game that displays this issue which we could take a look at?
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Hi @BobDor, good spot! Have you got a save game that displays this issue which we could take a look at, please?
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Hi @dplant, apologies for the late reply. Did @Things Could Get Messi's advice help? If not could you upload a save game for us and we'll take a look.
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Thanks for raising this. I've logged it and passed on to our Dev team to investigate
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Thanks for the posts. This is a known issue and is under review - the upgrade should still go through and correct dates should be visible on the club vision page.
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Hi @Tryllefot
Thanks for your post. Do you have a save game from just before such a request gets rejected? There are several factors that contribute to the board's decision here so you provide a save then we can take a look and see what the cause is, and whether it's valid or a bug.
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Thanks for the save @casederik. I've loaded it internally and Match Sharpness is displaying correctly for me. Could you confirm whether you play the game with a custom skin? Does seem like it's probably a UI issue and potentially skin related, so hopefully my colleagues on that forum will be able to provide some more help.
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Thanks for your post @d-g0. This isn't something that I've seen widely or reported or managed to reproduce internally, so I'm not sure what could have caused it. If you have a save game that displays this issue could you upload it for us to have a look at, please?
Does the match sharpness level show anywhere else correctly, on the tactics page, for example?
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Do you happen to have a save game that displays this issue? If you have one from just before the stadium is completed that would be perfect, but any time after that would also be helpful.
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Hi @zois92
Thanks for your post. Unfortunately with such a small sample size I think you've probably just been unlucky. We run injury rate numbers at around 80% compared to real life, but this doesn't mean some freak injury crises like this are impossible I'm afraid!
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2 hours ago, Captain Krakatoa said:
Yep so it's just about the inactive leagues are struggling to keep the number up right? It's not messing the whole Youth Intake system, is it?
Correct. And inactive leagues should only struggle when they have extra players loaded at game start using advanced db settings.
1 hour ago, Da Beezer said:Is that really true? Having Europe on view-only but with all players from those leagues loaded, is the same speed as having all league in Europe as playable?
Not quite the same, but the biggest factor in game processing speed is the player count, and view-only leagues are also already running all the competition's rulegroups. So adding a league as playable in this situation would add extra functionality and stability for clubs there (more Youth Intakes, transfers, staff hiring etc) without adding to the player count or rulegroups - it would probably be a tad slower as a result but worth doing in my opinion
Also worth mentioning that you can reduce Match Detail levels in certain leagues to try and speed your game up too.
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20 minutes ago, francis#17 said:
One question, when you mention inactive leagues are you referring to leagues that are loaded View Only AND leagues that arent loaded?
Yes, inactive leagues are any leagues that appear in game that have not been added as playable, which includes view-only leagues. View Only leagues are inactive leagues that simulate all the matches and rulegroups for that competition, but does not add any extra players from those leagues to the starting db. This means that if you use custom db setups to add extra players to a View-Only league, then you may as well just load it as Playable, as it won't slow your game down at all but will add a lot more structure and stability to the nation.
46 minutes ago, Captain Krakatoa said:Is the decreasing of the number of players in an Advanced Custom database is because, you know, the youth intake system is broken when you choose to play with custom db or because the fact the inactive league basically generates less players than playable leagues (like it is intended as well with regular database) so the inactive league is struggling to replace the player you loaded in the start of the game?
Inactive Leagues are indeed designed to function without the need to be fully stocked with players - but in cases where additional players are loaded there, they would still ideally be able to retain their player count. The issues regarding custom dbs are down to the fact that these extra players are based in inactive leagues - where we have a lot less to work with in order to try to boost and balance the numbers.
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The latest update 21.3.0 contains fixes aimed at improving Youth Intake numbers for both active and inactive leagues, as well as maintaining the long term total player count in saves. All changes are save game compatible.
We have introduced a stricter "minimum value" for the amount of players per intake. This means that top flight clubs should receive at least 8 players in every intake, with lower division clubs receiving slightly less - in most cases this should always be at least 4+.
These minimum values are now met regardless of the total player count in game, so even if the total player count hasn't decreased since game start, the number of players being generated will not decrease below a certain point. This means that it is now possible (and in many save game setups likely) that the player count will now gradually increase rather than decrease, especially in the first 10 years of a save, after which it will start to flatten out again.
I believe there are still some nations where a decrease may be possible - in Argentina for example where the squad sizes at game start are unsustainably huge - but there should now be a much healthier number of newgens generating across all active leagues than before.
Hopefully these changes will mean that u18 squads are less dependant on virtual (greyed out) players to make up the numbers, but to clarify, the presence of virtual players does not mean a club is not producing enough newgens.
We have also increased the number of newgens per intake for clubs in inactive leagues, but unfortunately the custom db setups where loads of players have been loaded into inactive leagues are still most likely to experience a drop in player count. It should be less severe than before this update, but my advice for long term saves would probably still be to add nations as playable if you want every club there to generate a youth intake every season and maintain the overall player count.
If you have any questions then let me know. If you spot any bugs regarding youth intakes, then at this point it's best to start a new thread rather than post it here as this one is getting a bit congested.
Thanks again for your patience and all the information posted regarding these issues, they've been incredibly helpful in helping us try to get them resolved.
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To confirm, this is still under review with our dev team. We are working on ways to increase the minimum amount of players per Youth Intake for AI clubs. All changes will be save compatible when they're ready.
Obviously this thread has had a lot of comments, could I ask that any issues that aren't specifically related to the number of players in Youth Intakes are raised in new, separate threads in the relevant subsection. This makes it much easier for us to make sure nothing slips the net and to track progress with fixes etc.
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To confirm, this is still under review with our dev team. We are working on ways to increase the minimum amount of players per Youth Intake for AI clubs. All changes will be save compatible when they're ready.
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@Nick_CBAh, I understand now. Yep, good spot. Could you upload a save game with this issue present and we can take a look?
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Hi @Sbn600
Please could you upload a save game with this issue present
https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/538431-how-to-upload-files-to-us/
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Hi @04ambroj
There has been a FIFA rule change which means players are allowed to switch national allegiance even after playing competitive matches for a nation, on the condition that when the matches were played they were u21 and already eligible for the nation they're switching to: https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveprice/2020/09/19/fifa-eligibility-rule-change-offers-world-cup-hopes-for-one-cap-wonders/?sh=1b4300df511e
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) let me know. We're always looking for ways to improve the game and I agree this feature can still be improved (personally I like the idea of trying to tie national team performance and league reputation into a nation's Game Importance and Financial Status scores, which would then feed into NYR long-term - but I think, by definition, that all NYR changes should always be very gradual).
I simulated to 2039 on FM23 - my observations
in Football Manager General Discussion
Posted
Definitely something we're looking to improve further. As I think has been mentioned earlier in thread, a lot of the remaining issues have been present in previous versions and are unfortunately not simple to resolve, but it's certainly not case closed.