Do you need a dedicated set piece coach?

[MontyOnTheRun]

I've noticed for a few saves with Liverpool now that I'm always at the top of "goals scored from corners" when I bring in Bernardo Cueva as my set piece coach. However, on my last save I decided to pick myself as the one doing the set piece coaching (I've given myself top score for every relevant section and am therefore a 5 star set piece coach), thereby not having a set piece coach at the club. Shockingly, halfway through the season I have scored zero goals from corners (with the exact same routines as in previous saves). The top team has 5 goals from corners. So I'm wondering if hiring a set piece coach actually matters, or if this is just a freak coincidence.

[HanziZoloman]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb MontyOnTheRun:

I've noticed for a few saves with Liverpool now that I'm always at the top of "goals scored from corners" when I bring in Bernardo Cueva as my set piece coach. However, on my last save I decided to pick myself as the one doing the set piece coaching (I've given myself top score for every relevant section and am therefore a 5 star set piece coach), thereby not having a set piece coach at the club. Shockingly, halfway through the season I have scored zero goals from corners (with the exact same routines as in previous saves). The top team has 5 goals from corners. So I'm wondering if hiring a set piece coach actually matters, or if this is just a freak coincidence.

That’s a real issue in my save as well. I always try to have the best set piece coaches and got one with a 16 in League two which is clearly one of the best in the game in 2060 (there are not many) but despite having good jumpers I almost score no goals from set pieces. It’s annoying as I feel bored be tinkering in set pieces and I am not good at it also. 

[crusadertsar]

Having the best possible set piece coach is a huge advantage. Personally I always hated tinkering with set pieces so having the ability to leave this to AI has been a godsend in FM24. Best feature haha.

Edited February 21 by crusadertsar

[bosque]

I have one of the best, he is in charge of the entirety of the set pieces. Good jumpers, average set piece takers and the last season we were top of the league in set piece goals. BUT the only routine we do is the near post one. I would like to have more variety. 

[HanziZoloman]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb bosque:

I have one of the best, he is in charge of the entirety of the set pieces. Good jumpers, average set piece takers and the last season we were top of the league in set piece goals. BUT the only routine we do is the near post one. I would like to have more variety. 

But that’s a good start. How are his stats?

[bosque]

2 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

But that’s a good start. How are his stats?

18 set pieces, 19 determination. He is a regen because is a save from FM23. Felix Lecat, and is french. Felix The Cat 

And only 35 y/o. I like to think he is a former footballer, the injuries forced his retirement and then he became the best Set Piece coach on the planet.

Edited February 21 by bosque

[HanziZoloman]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb bosque:

18 set pieces, 19 determination. He is a regen because is a save from FM23. Felix Lecat, and is french. Felix The Cat 

And only 35 y/o. I like to think he is a former footballer, the injuries forced his retirement and then he became the best Set Piece coach on the planet.

Nice and great name. The Cat!
I sadly can‘t make it work. I don’t like it and was happy to install a set piece coach but even the best didn’t produce. I have big jumpers in the team but I consistently find my smaller players involved in the box. I hope I’ll find a good one someday but I am 2061 … 

 

Edited February 21 by HanziZoloman

[MontyOnTheRun]

Nice replies, but does not really answer my Q. I want to know if anyone notice a difference between using a set piece coach and doing it yourself. 

Edited February 22 by MontyOnTheRun

[Bahnzo]

I just wanna brag, this is my set piece coach. Yes they are important and I also think you need to make sure you train "Routines" every week. I'd have to go check, but I scored what felt like quite a few set piece goals last season. Not just corners, but actual goals from FK's. I made sure to change my FK routines to go "short" instead of trying to find the best header or the back post, etc. That resulted in some real nice 1-2 pass goals. I also try to make sure I don't use my strikers for the FK's out wide, even if they are considered the best, as I want them being the ones getting the ball passed to. 

[lied90]

For those of you saying that it is important, how did you reach that conclusion?  I don't even have one and still scoring lots from set pieces.

[MontyOnTheRun]

2 hours ago, lied90 said:

For those of you saying that it is important, how did you reach that conclusion?  I don't even have one and still scoring lots from set pieces.

 

Maybe the set piece coach is only there to COACH attributes needed for set piece routines (in the same manner as a fitness coach only coach strength & quickness)... while the set pieces themselves can be set up by the human manager and will be carried out with the same chance of success REGARDLESS if you have a set piece coach in your coaching team. Would make my day if someone from SI took the time to comment on this.

My theory is that having a dedicated set piece coach makes a positive difference. The ony thing I have to go on is playing the same team over and over in different saves and comparing with and without using a set piece coach.

[fc.cadoni]

2 hours ago, lied90 said:

For those of you saying that it is important, how did you reach that conclusion?  I don't even have one and still scoring lots from set pieces.

It depends how you want to play the game. Some found the new SP to be overhelming so they delegate it to SP Coach - which will follow / assign routines according to his preferred delivers etc. Can do a decent job, but as you; I prefer micro manage to gain as much I want. 

[Bahnzo]

18 hours ago, lied90 said:

For those of you saying that it is important, how did you reach that conclusion?  I don't even have one and still scoring lots from set pieces.

Do you think having coaches that train Attacking are important? Or do you just let anybody handle that?

I'm sure there's people who will tell us it's not, but it's in the game for a reason I suspect, so I have one. 

[lied90]

4 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

Do you think having coaches that train Attacking are important? Or do you just let anybody handle that?

I'm sure there's people who will tell us it's not, but it's in the game for a reason I suspect, so I have one. 

You yourself said it's important, and that you should train routines every week. But what I get from your response is that you think it's important just because it's in the game?

There is an endless amount of things you can micro manage in FM, but I'm not gonna waste time doing it if it makes no difference.

At the start I didn't pay attention to it at all, never trained routines, had no SP coach. Still scored lots from set pieces and defended well. Hired a SP coaches and trained routines so that SP familiarity was maxed. I haven't noticed any difference myself, so was wondering if anyone has.

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, lied90 said:

You yourself said it's important, and that you should train routines every week. But what I get from your response is that you think it's important just because it's in the game?

There is an endless amount of things you can micro manage in FM, but I'm not gonna waste time doing it if it makes no difference.

At the start I didn't pay attention to it at all, never trained routines, had no SP coach. Still scored lots from set pieces and defended well. Hired a SP coaches and trained routines so that SP familiarity was maxed. I haven't noticed any difference myself, so was wondering if anyone has.

The difference is basically this. If you leave set pieces alone and don't touch any settings then of course you will still score some goals from set pieces. But it won't be as efficient if you were actually to go in and tweak it to suit your team. Some people even to this exploit the match engine, messing with specific set piece settings to score 30+ set piece goals per season. It's still possible in FM24 but I have no idea how to do it. 

If you allow AI to handle it yourself then the AI will do it with various levels of effectiveness depending on quality of coach its meant to represent, just like AI managers with better attributes do better in matches then ones with terrible ones. Against other AI at least. So yes, set piece coaches with great attributes will score you more goals. And it will probably be more than if you did nothing at all to the set piece settings. But not as good as if you set it up yourself. But that's the whole point. Some people like myself hate dealing with set pieces and rather delegate everything about them to an assistant. It's better than doing nothing at all. 

Edited February 23 by crusadertsar

[lied90]

23 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

The difference is basically this. If you leave set pieces alone and don't touch any settings then of course you will still score some goals from set pieces. But it won't be as efficient if you were actually to go in and tweak it to suit your team.

If allow AI to handle it yourself then the AI will do it with various effectiveness depending on quality of coach, just like AI managers with better attributes do better in matches then ones with terrible ones. So yeah set piece coaches with great attributes will score you more goals. And it will probably be more than it did nothing at all to the set piece settings. But not as good as you set it up yourself. But that's the whole point some people like myself hate dealing with set pieces and rather delegate everything about them to an assistant.

I understand the point of delegating it to someone because you don't want to deal with it yourself, but that's not really what I wondering about.

I'll give an example to describe it better.

A) I set up my own set pieces, but just have any guy of the street have SP responsibility in training.
B) I set up my own set pieces, but have a 5 star SP coach doing SP in training with the players.

I would assume that the effectiveness of SP would increase with option B, because the coach should be able to teach my players how to execute routines better than a bad SP coach.
I have tried option A and B and can't really observe a difference, maybe someone has looked into it a bit deeper?

[crusadertsar]

3 minutes ago, lied90 said:

I understand the point of delegating it to someone because you don't want to deal with it yourself, but that's not really what I wondering about.

I'll give an example to describe it better.

A) I set up my own set pieces, but just have any guy of the street have SP responsibility in training.
B) I set up my own set pieces, but have a 5 star SP coach doing SP in training with the players.

I would assume that the effectiveness of SP would increase with option B, because the coach should be able to teach my players how to execute routines better than a bad SP coach.
I have tried option A and B and can't really observe a difference, maybe someone has looked into it a bit deeper?

Definitely you need a much bigger sample size for this to be a proper experiment. If I am lucky and beat PSG as underdog twice it might seem like they are a crap team just from that sample and from one manager data. But that's not really the case in the game now is it. All I am making is assumptions too. Maybe others can chime who have experimented with this further. Personally, I have a feeling that the difference might be very negligible. Not unless you are using exploitive set piece tricks. 

[Helldragon]

I have the same problem. I give me 20 in Set Pieces, but on the 24 Game this Season i only scored one goal from Corner. Next Season i defintly will have a Set Piece Coach. 

[MontyOnTheRun]

5 hours ago, Helldragon said:

I have the same problem. I give me 20 in Set Pieces, but on the 24 Game this Season i only scored one goal from Corner. Next Season i defintly will have a Set Piece Coach. 

Yup, this is pretty much my conclusion too. SI can confirm if the set piece coach makes a difference? They have said that if you don`t have a sport scientist, then the physio does the sport scientist job, but not as effective. So I am wondering if the human manager doing the set piece coaching will also be not as effective.

[lied90]

18 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Not unless you are using exploitive set piece tricks. 

I'm not sure what this would even be this year as there are so many set piece routines that work. Not necessarily from direct headers, but goals that just happen because of poor defending after the initial corner kick.

[Bahnzo]

13 hours ago, lied90 said:

I'm not sure what this would even be this year as there are so many set piece routines that work. Not necessarily from direct headers, but goals that just happen because of poor defending after the initial corner kick.

I can't tell you how frustrated I get watching players being left unmarked after a corner. Especially the corner taker as they just stand out there by themselves after hitting the cross in. 

[HanziZoloman]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb Bahnzo:

I can't tell you how frustrated I get watching players being left unmarked after a corner. Especially the corner taker as they just stand out there by themselves after hitting the cross in. 

My set piece coach put the best jumper to take the set piece

[Bahnzo]

49 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

My set piece coach put the best jumper to take the set piece

I've ran into that too! There must be some checklist they follow where the corner taking attribute is more important than jumping reach. For the longest time my best header is also my best corner taker and he was also set to take corners, so I had to go an adjust.