What does the arrow that shows a player attribute decreases mean

[umole2k]

Good day community. I need help on this one. What does the decreasing arrow that shows on player attributes mean? I am trying to develope a player and instead of his attributes increasing it decreases. What do i do to avoid it from happening? I uploaded a screenshot of what i mean

[herne79]

Nothing.  It’s just the game doing some technical stuff in the background.  Only worry about red arrows, not those little pesky orange ones.

[crusadertsar]

Well I would still worry about orange arrows even if the attribute value does not actually go down like when you have with red ones. So I have to disagree with @herne79on this. It is not just a game doing technical stuff. Orange arrows just mean insignificant, fractional drop in attribute but not enough to go down by a whole number. Get enough times where same attribute gets an orange arrow and it will actually go down. If you see it once it's okay but if you are continuously seeing this on a player then it might be a sign that things are not going well. That either he is not playing enough games or that his training might not be sufficient. The latter factor is pretty complex because it could be a combination of your training facility quality, coaching staff and training intensity. For example training at semi-pro level is not of sufficient quality and frequency to actually increase your players attributes so they will mostly be dropping or increasing very slowly.

Edited November 29, 2023 by crusadertsar

[herne79]

I was perhaps too brief.  What's most important is long term progression.  It's perfectly normal to see even whole value drops (red arrow) on occasion (example a monthly attribute change may go something like 10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 11, 11, 12, 13, 13) so long as over 6 months or so growth is seen.

In this particular example, where you see orange arrows across the board and given the player involved, it's more than likely just the game's own technical background stuff - either attribute rebalancing due to the potential cap being reached or rebalancing because the period's growth cap has been exceeded.  Something to keep an eye on though just in case something untoward is happening .

[umole2k]

Ok thank you for your input but how do i avoid getting my players or the player that is developing not to have the downward arrows that are orange and red and what can i do to ensure that the arrows are always green? Should i give my young players more game time or more training time?

[phnompenhandy]

The AI uses tenths of a point (0.1) in its calculations.  A visible attribute of 12 can be anything between 11.5 and 12.4.

The orange arrow might indicate his rating has fallen from 12.2 to 12.1. The change is so minimal as to best ignore, especially as next month it might have shot up to 12.4

[Delial]

I take the opportunity of this thread to talk about training in FM24.

I feel like the mechanics changed from FM23, right?
In 23, I used the Experience Based Training Schedule and, for most of my players/teams, it worked like a charm to help players grow.

But I do feel it's not that efficient in FM24. It could be a good thing because, Experience Based training schedule could be considered as cheating but, I must admit that I'm a bit lost in regard of players growth. Feel me, I play with Ajax and decided to go all in on their homegrown players so, their progression really matters and I can't really afford to just buy another player if mine don't developp as much as I want/need.

[phnompenhandy]

1 hour ago, Delial said:

I take the opportunity of this thread to talk about training in FM24.

I feel like the mechanics changed from FM23, right?
In 23, I used the Experience Based Training Schedule and, for most of my players/teams, it worked like a charm to help players grow.

But I do feel it's not that efficient in FM24. It could be a good thing because, Experience Based training schedule could be considered as cheating but, I must admit that I'm a bit lost in regard of players growth. Feel me, I play with Ajax and decided to go all in on their homegrown players so, their progression really matters and I can't really afford to just buy another player if mine don't developp as much as I want/need.

Oh, tell me more. Due to EBFM, as a part time manager with 4 training sessions per week, I used Gen Phys, Gen Def and Gen Att along with March Prep only in FM23, and I'm continuing that in FM24. Do you think it's less effective now?

[Cloud9]

12 hours ago, umole2k said:

Ok thank you for your input but how do i avoid getting my players or the player that is developing not to have the downward arrows that are orange and red and what can i do to ensure that the arrows are always green? Should i give my young players more game time or more training time?

I would focus on making sure they're getting game time, but not overplayed. Setting up "Fatigue, Match load, Injury Risk" is a good way to manage your players development.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Cloud9

[Rashidi]

Orange is just minimal just as a slight green arrow is a minimal shift, it’s normally rebalancing and happens a lot more often when a player is asked to learn a new role and when a player gets older. Physical attributes might go down and get shifted to mental attributes.

[Rashidi]

@phnompenhandyFor amateur sides, in the last couple of years the best combo has always been a mix of general training and match practice. So for 4 sessions you can go General attacking, General Outfield, Match Practice and General Defending. Or Match Practice x2 General Attacking, Physical.

I have already benchmarked all attributes to find out rates of growth ie which attributes grow the fastest plus default year on year growths. Took a ton of sims, but found that any custom schedule you use can give you between 2-8% growth of CA for a whole squad in the first year. Good schedules will then end up pulling around 1.5%-2.5% CA growth for an entire squad per year after the initial first year burst. In early access it was even faster, but I think it has been toned down.

20% of high potential players with appropriate game time can hit full PA in 5 seasons, individually experiencing growth spurts of between 8-16% per season. Lamine Yamato hit full PA in 6 seasons in my sim and he has a lot of headroom to grow. There are other players who progress slowly and some older ones who may inch to full PA. So growth rates are different for different groups and affected by a host of factors which I have covered before.

The methodology of training hasn’t changed. A balanced training schedule provides the best growth potential for players.

[phnompenhandy]

2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

@phnompenhandyFor amateur sides, in the last couple of years the best combo has always been a mix of general training and match practice. So for 4 sessions you can go General attacking, General Outfield, Match Practice and General Defending. Or Match Practice x2 General Attacking, Physical.

I have already benchmarked all attributes to find out rates of growth ie which attributes grow the fastest plus default year on year growths. Took a ton of sims, but found that any custom schedule you use can give you between 2-8% growth of CA for a whole squad in the first year. Good schedules will then end up pulling around 1.5%-2.5% CA growth for an entire squad per year after the initial first year burst. In early access it was even faster, but I think it has been toned down.

20% of high potential players with appropriate game time can hit full PA in 5 seasons, individually experiencing growth spurts of between 8-16% per season. Lamine Yamato hit full PA in 6 seasons in my sim and he has a lot of headroom to grow. There are other players who progress slowly and some older ones who may inch to full PA. So growth rates are different for different groups and affected by a host of factors which I have covered before.

The methodology of training hasn’t changed. A balanced training schedule provides the best growth potential for players.

That's useful, thanks. So my policy of using just general training sessions and a match practice before a game is sound. I'm generally finding that I can promote half my academy intake into the first team by about the following January on average, meaning the less-promising half are likely to fester in the Under 18s until they're released in April when the new intake arrives. Another pattern I'm noting is that the best players tend to shine for two seasons before fading or stagnating. Some plateau in terms of development, but continue to be key players. The key is to identify which is which, and be prepared to defy fans and team-mates by spotting this point and culling before they become a liability. Little green and orange arrows are not the guide here - it's plotting form over time.

[umole2k]

5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

@phnompenhandyFor amateur sides, in the last couple of years the best combo has always been a mix of general training and match practice. So for 4 sessions you can go General attacking, General Outfield, Match Practice and General Defending. Or Match Practice x2 General Attacking, Physical.

I have already benchmarked all attributes to find out rates of growth ie which attributes grow the fastest plus default year on year growths. Took a ton of sims, but found that any custom schedule you use can give you between 2-8% growth of CA for a whole squad in the first year. Good schedules will then end up pulling around 1.5%-2.5% CA growth for an entire squad per year after the initial first year burst. In early access it was even faster, but I think it has been toned down.

20% of high potential players with appropriate game time can hit full PA in 5 seasons, individually experiencing growth spurts of between 8-16% per season. Lamine Yamato hit full PA in 6 seasons in my sim and he has a lot of headroom to grow. There are other players who progress slowly and some older ones who may inch to full PA. So growth rates are different for different groups and affected by a host of factors which I have covered before.

The methodology of training hasn’t changed. A balanced training schedule provides the best growth potential for players.

What is a balanced training schedule? What do you mean by that?

Edited December 1, 2023 by umole2k

[umole2k]

19 hours ago, Delial said:

I take the opportunity of this thread to talk about training in FM24.

I feel like the mechanics changed from FM23, right?
In 23, I used the Experience Based Training Schedule and, for most of my players/teams, it worked like a charm to help players grow.

But I do feel it's not that efficient in FM24. It could be a good thing because, Experience Based training schedule could be considered as cheating but, I must admit that I'm a bit lost in regard of players growth. Feel me, I play with Ajax and decided to go all in on their homegrown players so, their progression really matters and I can't really afford to just buy another player if mine don't develope as much as I want/need.

What is experienced based training schedule? Kindly post it on this thread. Thank you

[fc.cadoni]

13 hours ago, umole2k said:

What is experienced based training schedule? Kindly post it on this thread. Thank you

Search on Youtube: Evidence Based Football Manager

[Cloud9]

13 hours ago, umole2k said:

What is experienced based training schedule? Kindly post it on this thread. Thank you

I would take this YouTuber's content with a grain of salt. Some of his previous work has been misleading I think.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Cloud9

[phnompenhandy]

15 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

I would take this YouTuber's content with a grain of salt. Some of his previous work has been misleading I think.

He made one gaff in not understanding the nature of 'step up' and 'drop off'. He acknowledged that. Not sure he's been shown to be majorly wrong in anything else.

[herne79]

7 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Not sure he's been shown to be majorly wrong in anything else.

He has.

That being said, lots of people find some of his videos useful so if it helps their enjoyment of the game then have at it .  Just keep eyes open and don’t accept everything as gospel .