[FM23] Kosovo

[RoguPL]

On mine it was also a DOF who was responsible... changed now. 
I made the change in December before the preview I wonder how that is going to affect this intake.

[Jimbokav1971]

11 hours ago, RoguPL said:

On mine it was also a DOF who was responsible... changed now. 
I made the change in December before the preview I wonder how that is going to affect this intake.

Nobody actually knows for sure. 

Because it's before the preview I would expect that you get more of an impact from the change, but I'm really not 100% sure on that. 

In a perfect World a HoYD would be influencing kids who came through as very young teenagers, but players who are on the verge of becoming 15/16 and close to being offered proper youth contracts would be influenced by whoever was HoYD over the last 5-6 years, (at whatever club they were at), but of course I don;t have any expectation that the game goes that deep. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Ranking. Jun 2045. 

We're really making goof progress now and are almost on a par with the English Championship. 

Ranked 1. 187 English Premier League.
Ranked 5. 176 French Ligue 1.
Ranked 10. 151 Turkish Super League
Ranked 15. 143 Czech First Division.
Ranked 20. 134 English Championship.
Ranked 22. 133 Kosovan SuperLeague. 

It's worth pointing out that although our coefficient looks great, we will be losing a 20.00 point season next year so unless we're very good in Europe this season, we will take a big hit. 

This is such a typical UEFA rule. I hate it. 

We're starting to get really close to getting a 2nd Kosovan team in the Champions League. This won't mean that I expect them to qualify for the Champions league itself. (Far from it). What it means though is that they can lose 2 ties before dropping into the Europa Conference and that should give them a significant advantage. It's likely they will get a decent draw at that stage too. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Reputation. Jun 2045. 

I think this gives you a pretty good view of where the power lies with regards to Kosovan clubs. 

We're at the top with Ballkani comfortably 2nd and then Drita 3rd, but there are a few teams vying for the 4th spot, (which is why the 4th European spot often changes hands). 

6234 Shkëndija Hajvali
4492 Ballkani
4034 Drita
3933 Prishtina
3920 Llapi
3871 Gjilani
3636 Trepça '89

[BML]

On 03/10/2023 at 08:35, Jimbokav1971 said:

Let me know either way please if you check. 

I checked and it's my HoYD, but only because I've been burnt before so I make a point to check when I hire someone new.

As part of my 'pre season admin' I also check that the best staff are giving me advice for each part of the backroom meetings, so I'm on the Staff Responsibilities screen often enough in case I miss it.

I'd agree there needs to be on option on the 'Hired' message to assign them to the duty, much like when you hire a scout or lose a youth/B Team manager.

[Jimbokav1971]

2 minutes ago, BML said:

I checked and it's my HoYD, but only because I've been burnt before so I make a point to check when I hire someone new.

As part of my 'pre season admin' I also check that the best staff are giving me advice for each part of the backroom meetings, so I'm on the Staff Responsibilities screen often enough in case I miss it.

I'd agree there needs to be on option on the 'Hired' message to assign them to the duty, much like when you hire a scout or lose a youth/B Team manager.

Glad to see someone is on the ball. 

I think that if this has taught us anything, it's that this task is an absolute must to be added to all those rubbish Admin tasks that we do ever Summer. It's vital and you just can't afford to ignore it, (and it takes mere seconds). 

[Jimbokav1971]

Jul 2045. 

Champions League. It's a decent start to our European campaign with 9 goals scored and 2 clean sheets. 

Goal-scoring GK's. No goals this month, (but 2 shots on target from 5 shots taken in Europe). 

Finances. The 2 promoted sides this season were Feronikeli 74 and Flamurtari, and they were 2 of the 9 clubs initially given £10M each 2 years ago, (so they don't get any more money....... at this stage).

So we get £215k + £550k + £525k in installments = £1.32M

There have been a few questions asking what the Kosovan clubs have done with the £10M I gave them, and this is the 1st real significant transfer I have seen. Obviously it's a lot of money for a Kosovan club, but Ballkani have their own money over and above the £10M we gave them, and (31h) Capi * is immediately valued at £14M-£16.5M. He was a player I really liked when he was with us, (and did really well for us), so I hope to see them improve their European performances with him in the squad and maybe even sell him on for a tidy profit. I still quite like the look of him now, although I'm not sure I like him to the tune of £14M

Edited October 4, 2023 by Jimbokav1971

[Jimbokav1971]

Aug 2045. 

SuperLeague. We've had some injuries to contend with, but the 2nd Team have started the season well. 

Champions League. The Group Stage fixtures appear to be considerably easier than last season, (where we were unbeaten). 

Goal-scoring GK's. 4 goals this month, but 1 pen missed. 

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Kosovan Teams in Europe. Sep 2045. 

Ballkani have 15 of our Academy products on their books, (5 of them on loan). They had a really tough draw in the Europa League, being drawn against Standard Liege of Belgium. They did however manage to defeat AFC Botoşani of Romania to qualify for the Europa Conference Group Stage. Looking at their opponents, I am hopeful of them getting through to at least the Playoffs. 
 

Drita have done really well in Europe this season, (for a change). First they beat FK Dečić Tuzi of Montenegro, but then beat..... ahhh, it's not Spartak Moscow. It's FK Spartak Zdrepčeva krv Subotica of Serbia, (but that's still really decent). Despite scoring in both legs against AEK Athens of Greece, they fell just short of the Group Stage. This is really good though and it's interesting to note that at this stage of the season, (only played 3 league games), the 2 of the 5 loanees we have sent to them have scored 9 goals between them already. It' wasn't enough to get them through to a Group Stage, but I really can't complain about a campaign like this. It's really decent. 

Prishtina had it toughest of all the Kosovan clubs. They were drawn against Willem II of Holland and to be completely fair to them, they did really well to just get a draw at home. Really can't be expecting more than that. Another decent effort. They also have 5 players on loan from us, (and 11 Academy products in total), 

[Jimbokav1971]

Sep 2045. 

SuperLeague. The 2nd Team play SuperLeague games when the 1st Team play in Europe, so the Ballkani result isn't as much a surprise as it might otherwise be. We should have still beat them comfortably, but we had a 16 year old centre-half and about an 8th or 9th choice striker who screwed things for us at both ends and we needed a GK goal to save us from defeat. 

Champions League. Man City away is a tough start, but we should have beaten Stuttgart. 

Facilities. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 2 goals and 1 assist this month. 

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Oct 2045. 

SuperLeague. 31 goals scored and just 1 against. 

Champions League. 

(33e) Shumeli has torn his hams-string and will be out for 2-3 months. Despite him scoring 59 goals last season, that was actually his 1st season as starter for the 2nd Team. Prior to that he had always been a 1st Team starter. This season, (again playing for the 2nd Team), he has scored 22 goals in 12(7) appearances, but specifically 20 goals in 9(1) SuperLeague appearances. He is properly tearing the SuperLeague up, (or at least was). 

Goal-scoring GK's. 4 goals and 1 assist this month. 

Finances. 

[GreenTriangle]

13 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

(...)

Because it's before the preview I would expect that you get more of an impact from the change, but I'm really not 100% sure on that. 

In a perfect World a HoYD would be influencing kids who came through as very young teenagers, but players who are on the verge of becoming 15/16 and close to being offered proper youth contracts would be influenced by whoever was HoYD over the last 5-6 years, (at whatever club they were at), but of course I don;t have any expectation that the game goes that deep. 

A quote from a post by XaW from earlier this year : "Also, remember that changing HoYD can take years to impact the coming players. The HoYD is a long-term impact on future newgens. If I remember correctly it's about 3 years BEFORE they actually come through an intake (don't quote me on that one though)."

Source : about HOYD

[WhiteCat33]

38 minutes ago, GreenTriangle said:

A quote from a post by XaW from earlier this year : "Also, remember that changing HoYD can take years to impact the coming players. The HoYD is a long-term impact on future newgens. If I remember correctly it's about 3 years BEFORE they actually come through an intake (don't quote me on that one though)."

Source : about HOYD

Players are in your Youth Candidate hidden teams on average 4 years. You can see it actually in game if you go into a player's history -> Milestones and then change the selection from Notable to "All". Now when they join your Youth Candidate squad will appear. Here is a 16 year old who came in during my last year intake (2038), who spent 4 years in the JR teams. What isn't clear is exactly how your HOYD effects these players during this time in the youth squad. Just that you won't be able to see any of the new HOYDs players for 4-5 years after you hire them. It's why I'm putting up with some dreadful intakes with my new staff member.

Edited October 4, 2023 by WhiteCat33

[Jimbokav1971]

2 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

A quote from a post by XaW from earlier this year : "Also, remember that changing HoYD can take years to impact the coming players. The HoYD is a long-term impact on future newgens. If I remember correctly it's about 3 years BEFORE they actually come through an intake (don't quote me on that one though)."

Source : about HOYD

I mean this in the nicest possible way, (because I have a lot of time for @XaW), but I'm not 100% sure how accurate that is. Don't get me wrong, I want it to be accurate, and I think it should be accurate, (as I have already mentioned). I'm just not convinced that SI have it working as they would like. Let's be honest, the SI boffins still maintain that the penalty taking attribute has a significant impact on the outcome of a penalty, so why should I believe anything else they say? 

I'm more likely to believe something that @XaW"thinks" than something SI tell us is a "fact", but I'm still unsure on this one, (despite the fact that I want it to be true & I'm probably leaning a little that way, if not the whole way).

When I did the experiments with the last few versions of the game, (using the editor), the results were so ridiculously mixed that it was clear that most of the things we thought worked in a particular way in the game, actually didn't work that way at all, (in FM21 & FM22), and it took a significant update to get them back to normal again, (most of them).

I now work on the basis of (1). what I know, (2). what I think I know, (3). what I think, and (4). what I'd like to think, (hope), with regards to how FM works in particular areas. Just because someone at SI, (or someone else on here, no matter how trustworthy), says something, unfortunately doesn't make it true, (eg "your best penalty takers will likely be your players with the best penalty taking attribute"). I know this to not be true for a fact. 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, WhiteCat33 said:

Players are in your Youth Candidate hidden teams on average 4 years. You can see it actually in game if you go into a player's history -> Milestones and then change the selection from Notable to "All". Now when they join your Youth Candidate squad will appear. Here is a 16 year old who came in during my last year intake (2038), who spent 4 years in the JR teams. What isn't clear is exactly how your HOYD effects these players during this time in the youth squad. Just that you won't be able to see any of the new HOYDs players for 4-5 years after you hire them. It's why I'm putting up with some dreadful intakes with my new staff member.

I like this thinking and I think that's how SI want the game to operate. I think that they want the HoYD and other staff members to influence the players from the time they are shown at the club on their milestones, (because it has to be there for a reason other than that of HGN/HGC). My problem with it is that when I have checked previously, the data simply doesn't back it up either way and while what we'd like to think, (hope), happens sounds great, the reality is often something else entirely. 

I really need to go back and do another experiment with this, but the effort I put into the last series of experiments was significant, and proved a complete waste of my time because SI completely changed the way that EVERYTHING worked after the 1st update, (in FM23). 

I think that the impact any staff member has on a single player at the outset is negligible, no matter how good the staff member. I think that it works on a similar way to a single round of mentoring. You have what the player is created with, (randomly with some outside influences), and then things like favoured personnel, Nationality, club and other things all impact the base template in a very small way. I basically "think" that you get what you get and while you can influence it loads of different ways, these influences are actually really small. 

Please note that I very carefully use the word "think" rather than "know". 

[Jimbokav1971]

Nov 2045. 

SuperLeague. We're 1 point clear at the top with a game in hand, but Ballkani are playing well and are still unbeaten after 15 games, (1 against us). 

Champions League. 

Kosovan Cup.

Goal-scoring GK's. 6 goals this month, but no assists or misses. 

Finances. 

[WhiteCat33]

1 hour ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I like this thinking and I think that's how SI want the game to operate. I think that they want the HoYD and other staff members to influence the players from the time they are shown at the club on their milestones, (because it has to be there for a reason other than that of HGN/HGC). My problem with it is that when I have checked previously, the data simply doesn't back it up either way and while what we'd like to think, (hope), happens sounds great, the reality is often something else entirely. 

I really need to go back and do another experiment with this, but the effort I put into the last series of experiments was significant, and proved a complete waste of my time because SI completely changed the way that EVERYTHING worked after the 1st update, (in FM23). 

I think that the impact any staff member has on a single player at the outset is negligible, no matter how good the staff member. I think that it works on a similar way to a single round of mentoring. You have what the player is created with, (randomly with some outside influences), and then things like favoured personnel, Nationality, club and other things all impact the base template in a very small way. I basically "think" that you get what you get and while you can influence it loads of different ways, these influences are actually really small. 

Please note that I very carefully use the word "think" rather than "know". 

I'm totally with you that this is a lot of our thinking on what the **** is actually happening under the hood with very little facts to back any of it up. I get we are pushing the game beyond their typical design intentions, but I'd love if one of these years they put some added depth into developing youth systems at your club. With all the playing statistics they've added, you'd think we could get more than 1 staff member, affiliate links and three 1 - 20 sliders to determine the players we generate. 

Only evidence in the game that some players actually join your youth teams when the timeline shows they do is the game's poaching system. Specifically, you get the in-game message years before the player is actually added into the other clubs intake. Doesn't mean the game generates all players, but there are at least some players developing (somehow) in your junior teams from at least the age of 12 for the big clubs around the world to pick from to generate diverse nationality intakes.

In older FMs you could see where your club was poaching players form (and I think AI clubs), but they seem to have hidden / removed that part of the poaching system for whatever reason. 

In my save the one poached player is Luther Samuel who somehow Arsenal scouted in Barbados - totally shocked me, but he funded the club going professional so thanks. Weirdly enough in his timeline it says he joined my main squad not youth candidates. I'd be curious if this is the case for all poached players, or just a quirk I'm experiencing.

 

[XaW]

5 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I mean this in the nicest possible way, (because I have a lot of time for @XaW), but I'm not 100% sure how accurate that is. Don't get me wrong, I want it to be accurate, and I think it should be accurate, (as I have already mentioned). I'm just not convinced that SI have it working as they would like. Let's be honest, the SI boffins still maintain that the penalty taking attribute has a significant impact on the outcome of a penalty, so why should I believe anything else they say? 

I'm more likely to believe something that @XaW"thinks" than something SI tell us is a "fact", but I'm still unsure on this one, (despite the fact that I want it to be true & I'm probably leaning a little that way, if not the whole way).

When I did the experiments with the last few versions of the game, (using the editor), the results were so ridiculously mixed that it was clear that most of the things we thought worked in a particular way in the game, actually didn't work that way at all, (in FM21 & FM22), and it took a significant update to get them back to normal again, (most of them).

I now work on the basis of (1). what I know, (2). what I think I know, (3). what I think, and (4). what I'd like to think, (hope), with regards to how FM works in particular areas. Just because someone at SI, (or someone else on here, no matter how trustworthy), says something, unfortunately doesn't make it true, (eg "your best penalty takers will likely be your players with the best penalty taking attribute"). I know this to not be true for a fact. 

No worries Jimbo, don't worry about being harsh towards me if you want, I can deal with it!  

That said, I have posted that after someone from SI wrote it in here somewhere. Granted it was some years ago, so it might have been changed for all I know. I'll see if I can find the quote and I'll add it if I can.

So I think so because I've read it from SI. Now, it's a fair discussion about how accurately we should take posts from SI staff, as I believe they are being deliberately vague to not give away details that lets us exploit or "game" the system. However, I should point out that, as with a lot of things in the game, the level of impact is unknown. So if you have a HoYD with a certain preference, that doesn't mean it will show up 100% of the time, but it means it's more likely. How likely? I have no clue. But if having a HoYD with a preference for the same style as I play will increase the odd of me getting in youth players in the positions and roles that I use mostly, then I think that's a good move. In a way, I kinda like it, as the marginal advantages are pretty much how things work in real life.

So if I should put this on the Jimbo-scale (trademark pending), I'd classify this as a 2, something I think I know, but the details are still too obscure to prove conclusively.

Anyway, I won't hijack the thread, but you know I can't stay out of a good discussion about youth intakes!  

[Jimbokav1971]

4 hours ago, WhiteCat33 said:

I'm totally with you that this is a lot of our thinking on what the **** is actually happening under the hood with very little facts to back any of it up. I get we are pushing the game beyond their typical design intentions, but I'd love if one of these years they put some added depth into developing youth systems at your club. With all the playing statistics they've added, you'd think we could get more than 1 staff member, affiliate links and three 1 - 20 sliders to determine the players we generate. 

Only evidence in the game that some players actually join your youth teams when the timeline shows they do is the game's poaching system. Specifically, you get the in-game message years before the player is actually added into the other clubs intake. Doesn't mean the game generates all players, but there are at least some players developing (somehow) in your junior teams from at least the age of 12 for the big clubs around the world to pick from to generate diverse nationality intakes.

In older FMs you could see where your club was poaching players form (and I think AI clubs), but they seem to have hidden / removed that part of the poaching system for whatever reason. 

In my save the one poached player is Luther Samuel who somehow Arsenal scouted in Barbados - totally shocked me, but he funded the club going professional so thanks. Weirdly enough in his timeline it says he joined my main squad not youth candidates. I'd be curious if this is the case for all poached players, or just a quirk I'm experiencing.

 

With regards to players being poached, (something that used to happen pretty regularly), I think that they have either lessened the  regularity with which this happens, or done this by accident by changing something else and have never fixed it. That being said, while I am playing in an edited database I'm not sure how critical I can be because it could well be the edit that's causing the problems, (although it's something I noticed playing in "out if the box" leagues such as Spain and Portugal over the last couple of seasons too. 

For it not to happen in this save even once, where we had the the best facilities but were severely lacking in rep for many seasons, seems very strange. It would have been the perfect storm for player after player after player being poached, but it just didn't happen. I thought it was a cool little feature and I was beginning to fear that they had removed it completely rather than it just being NERF'd.

Fingers crossed then can get it back close to how it was before. 

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

No worries Jimbo, don't worry about being harsh towards me if you want, I can deal with it!  

That said, I have posted that after someone from SI wrote it in here somewhere. Granted it was some years ago, so it might have been changed for all I know. I'll see if I can find the quote and I'll add it if I can.

So I think so because I've read it from SI. Now, it's a fair discussion about how accurately we should take posts from SI staff, as I believe they are being deliberately vague to not give away details that lets us exploit or "game" the system. However, I should point out that, as with a lot of things in the game, the level of impact is unknown. So if you have a HoYD with a certain preference, that doesn't mean it will show up 100% of the time, but it means it's more likely. How likely? I have no clue. But if having a HoYD with a preference for the same style as I play will increase the odd of me getting in youth players in the positions and roles that I use mostly, then I think that's a good move. In a way, I kinda like it, as the marginal advantages are pretty much how things work in real life.

So if I should put this on the Jimbo-scale (trademark pending), I'd classify this as a 2, something I think I know, but the details are still too obscure to prove conclusively.

Anyway, I won't hijack the thread, but you know I can't stay out of a good discussion about youth intakes!  

Hey mate.  Harsh?   No way. 

I copied you in because I knew you would have something interesting to say, (and you know I don't have an issue with opposing point of views). I agree that when SI say something it's all too easy to accept it as Gospel, but for me there are always caveats that I have to take into consideration. 

1. Which member of SI is giving us the info. Is it Miles for example, (trust was he says implicitly), because he's also less ambiguous than other are known to be, (simply because he can be). If it's someone else, is it something that's in an area they specialize in? There is a food chain at SI and info coming from the top of the food chain is better than that coming from lower down. 

2. At what point in the yearly cycle are we given the info. Any info that comes out now about new features for example will likely be put into "how SI want the game to work" category rather than the "how the game actually works" category. Unfortunately the 2 groups are very different and at this stage there are many many many things in the 2nd category. An example of this is that at the very start of the FM22 cycle, there was absolutely nothing that was set in stone at the day of the Youth intake preview. Usually we would see names and positions and personal details created at that point and set in stone, but in FM22 out of the box it simply didn't work like that. The Youth Intake preview was effectively window dressing. It just wasn't operational for some reason. Nobody told us this and it was only when I was doing my experiments that it came to light, (and SI eventually fixed it later). It has crossed my mind that whatever "fix" was implemented at this time has had an impact on the poaching system and how it works, but that's simply speculation on my part and i have absolutely nothing to back it up. 

3. Is this a new feature or an established one. The accuracy of any new feature info is always likely to be less accurate than info on an established feature, simply because it usually takes a full cycle for SI to work out exactly how it works and how ironing out any kinks is going to impact on other areas of the game. 

4. How big and far-reaching is this new info? Is this a tiny little bit of info, (more likely to be accurate), or a huge great big enormous slab of info, (less likely to be accurate). 

5. How much of a change is this from the old way of doing things? A small change, (more likely to be accurate), or a huge change, (less likely to be accurate). 

6. Does this info fit in with how you "feel" the game works? (For example SI have told us that each of the 4 Facility types have equal significance in the production of Newgens). If this doesn't feel accurate to you, (it doesn't to me after testing), then don't believe it just because someone from SI has said it.

7. Has someone from SI actually said it, (a paid employee), or is someone from SI, (a paid employee), alleged to have said it? Big difference. Unless you can see the original quote and can work out who it is and what area of the game he specializes in........ well Chinese whispers springs to mind. 

8. Do you know the info is wrong? (ie. that the penalty taking attribute is a key factor in the calculation as to the result of penalties). Irrespective of who says it, what their role at SI is and how many times they say it, I don't care that it's in the hints and tips. I don't care that SI staff have repeated it again and again and again. I know this not to be true. 

The penalty taking thing is a really big thing for me. This lie has been repeated so often than it's generally accepted to be the truth now, (it isn't). If this is wrong. What else is wrong? 

I think I've mentioned to you ages ago that I believe that the influence of a HoYD is something similar to 1 level of mentoring, and that I also "think" that every player/staff member on the players favoured personnel list influences the player in some way, (similar to that of mentoring), so if you have 5 Model Pro's on your favoured personnel "I think" that the impact is like 5 different levels of mentoring by a M.Pro. Obviously not all on list will be M.Pro so if there are 5 staff/players on the list then you get 5 impacts on the hidden attributes, (some of which might be negative). 

Is it possible that the HoYD, (or whoever brings the player through the intake), has a higher impact than the other staff members on the list? Yes of course, but my general point is that the impact is pretty small and this isn't a strategy in which you can "game the personalities", the way we used to (eg tutoring). 

[Jimbokav1971]

Youth Intake preview. Dec 2045. 

I have a question, (or questions), for you. (Yes you!) 

When you look at a Youth Intake preview, what area do you hold most importance in? 

For example, the alphabetical system is big and brash and your eyes are automatically drawn to it. 

Or do you instead look at the much smaller star rating on the right hand side? 

Or you could be a little like me and think that there very little link between the preview and the intake itself, and instead focus on what you know is accurate, (the positions coming through)? 

Just for the record, when I see this sort of "intake distribution by preferred position", I don't actually see 3 strikers and 2 left wingers and bla bla bla. What I see is this. 

6x or 7x SC's. 3xST(C), 2x AM(L), 1x AM(R), (and an AM(C) who could either be a SC or a MC depending on attributes). 
2x or 3c MC's. 2x M(C), (and an AM(C) who could either by a SC or a MC depending on attributes).
1x WBL. 1x D(L)
1x WBR. 1x M(R)
4x DC. 4x D(C)
1x GK.
 

For my part, this is how I see it..... (theory rather than anything else at this stage, and I'm writing this now so I have something to compare my thoughts to later once the intake actually arrives. 

I think the alphabetical rating is quite CA based. The B C C indicates that the better players, (by CA are likely to be a MC, AMC and SC). 
I think the 5.0 star rating system is based on PA. the 4.5 PA "Excellent" rating makes me thing that this will be quite a high PA intake, (especially compared to recent intakes). 
As I have just changed the person responsible for the intakes, (from rubbish DoF to decent HoYD), this also adds weight to the fact that he has had some influence on this intake, (which of course would not be the case in real life and is not something that we'd like to see in the game ideall). Having said that, I do appreciate that this is a complex area.  

Your thoughts? 

[BML]

1 hour ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Your thoughts? 

Personally I put little faith in the Letter and Star ratings on this preview message. This is based on my own (limited) sample size from playing the game every year (was it 2 or 3 versions ago this was introduced?) and a larger sample size from reading about youth only saves, like yours and others in this forum, and the YAC thread in the Challenges forum.

I'm also unsure where these ratings come from - as in, who's opinion is this? You could infer from the message that these ratings are based on the HOYD's opinion (in which case his JPA/JPP comes into it) or does the "early assessment" come from the hidden youth staff that deal with kids until they appear every intake? If the former, I tend to pick my HOYD based on personality and formation first, with attributes an afterthought (with maybe a bias toward WWY) so the ratings are even more likely to be incorrect.

If I do do anything with this message, it's to look at the positions coming through as it can give me an early indication of which youth players could be bumped up a level/released or sold, but as I very rarely run Youth Only saves, I generally tend to pay little attention to this particular message - preferring to concentrate on the actual intake when they come through.

 

[Jimbokav1971]

Dec 2045. 

SuperLeague. A decent month defensively, but in the absence of (33e) Shumeli, (who is almost back now), we've just been stuttering a little in forward areas. 

Champions League. A comfortable win gives us a chance to progress, but our remaining fixtures are against Liverpool & Real Madrid and it will be tough to get much out of either of them. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 2 goals and 1 assist this month. 

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Just now, BML said:

Personally I put little faith in the Letter and Star ratings on this preview message. This is based on my own (limited) sample size from playing the game every year (was it 2 or 3 versions ago this was introduced?) and a larger sample size from reading about youth only saves, like yours and others in this forum, and the YAC thread in the Challenges forum.

I'm also unsure where these ratings come from - as in, who's opinion is this? You could infer from the message that these ratings are based on the HOYD's opinion (in which case his JPA/JPP comes into it) or does the "early assessment" come from the hidden youth staff that deal with kids until they appear every intake? If the former, I tend to pick my HOYD based on personality and formation first, with attributes an afterthought (with maybe a bias toward WWY) so the ratings are even more likely to be incorrect.

If I do do anything with this message, it's to look at the positions coming through as it can give me an early indication of which youth players could be bumped up a level/released or sold, but as I very rarely run Youth Only saves, I generally tend to pay little attention to this particular message - preferring to concentrate on the actual intake when they come through.

That's a really well thought-out way of looking at this. 

The whole area is so full of unknowns that I don't think there is any right or wrong answer to this, and especially if you don't play Youth Only saves then it makes sense to simply skip over this and wait to see what you actually get. 

Interesting that you hold little faith in the alphabetical/star ratings. (I think you are probably correct to). I keep thinking that they mist mean something though, (or at least the intention is that they mean something). My biggest problem with them, (alphabetical/star ratings), is whatever they are meant to indicate, it can't be the same thing, because a good rating in 1 doesn't equal a good rating in the other. They have to be a measure of 2 different things, (or at least that's the way it appears to me). 

I really must spend some time in the Youth Academy thread. Haven't been in there for a while. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Jan 2046. 

Champions League. We were really good against Liverpool and might have scored 3 or 4 on another day, but Real Madrid took us apart. We did enough to qualify for the Playoffs and our reward is a 2-legged tie against VFB Stuttgart who beat us 2-1 at home in September. We're better than we were back in September, but we have 4 players suspended out of the 1st leg so it's going to be a tough ask. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 1 goal scored this month, but no assists or missed pens. 

Finances. 

[WhiteCat33]

4 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Or you could be a little like me and think that there very little link between the preview and the intake itself, and instead focus on what you know is accurate, (the positions coming through)? 

For me its broad brushstrokes more to warn me if something is really wrong than get me excited about anything. The part I pay most attention to is the Star Rating of the intakes over time. If I'm seeing repeated less than 4.5* Intake Qualities [like I am right now] I take a closer look at staff and what's going on to see if I need to make changes. I put little to no faith in the letters. After that I'm like you watching the position numbers.

As an example, I just had a pretty bizarre intake that was overall awful, but generated my best CA/PA player of the 17 year save. It started with a really poor preview, but key to notice is there are 2 GKs even though they are rated as "D" I find it tends to mean you will get at least one reasonably good one.

And then it generated a ~70 CA GK who comparatively is about the CA of my current GK, and my rotation players in the squad.

[Mr Jabay]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Jimbokav1971:

Your thoughts? 

I would love to answer that, but I am still playing FM21.... 

However, when the intake arrives, I do not care about the PA, as it will change anyways. Right now my bestestest (is this the correct English form?) Hungarian Youth player is quite a good bloke with 5 stars PA who started out with 3 or 3.5 stars.

[Jimbokav1971]

36 minutes ago, WhiteCat33 said:

For me its broad brushstrokes more to warn me if something is really wrong than get me excited about anything. The part I pay most attention to is the Star Rating of the intakes over time. If I'm seeing repeated less than 4.5* Intake Qualities [like I am right now] I take a closer look at staff and what's going on to see if I need to make changes. I put little to no faith in the letters. After that I'm like you watching the position numbers.

As an example, I just had a pretty bizarre intake that was overall awful, but generated my best CA/PA player of the 17 year save. It started with a really poor preview, but key to notice is there are 2 GKs even though they are rated as "D" I find it tends to mean you will get at least one reasonably good one.

And then it generated a ~70 CA GK who comparatively is about the CA of my current GK, and my rotation players in the squad.

Cumberbatch looks great for any league never mind about playing in Barbados.  

Top left 3 attributes. 
Handling, kicking & reflexes. 
Decisions, Det & Positioning. 
Agility & Jumping. 

If I was being REALLY picky then it's a shame his concentration isn't better, (but that's being ridiculously picky). 

Decent personality too. 

[Jimbokav1971]

17 minutes ago, Mr Jabay said:

I would love to answer that, but I am still playing FM21.... 

However, when the intake arrives, I do not care about the PA, as it will change anyways. Right now my bestestest (is this the correct English form?) Hungarian Youth player is quite a good bloke with 5 stars PA who started out with 3 or 3.5 stars.

Bestestest is not technically a word, but it describes the situation perfectly.  ("The best" is the correct term but it's boring and bestestest is a much better word). 

So FM21 doesn't have a preview? You just go straight into the intake? (I can't remember).

You know, I love the idea of the Intake Preview and I love the hint of insight it suggests to us in terms of the workings under the hood, but I don't think it's working right. (I don't think it's ever worked right). The poaching system, (as I mentioned recently), seems to have been almost removed completely and the link between the Preview and the Intake itself seems tenuous at best. Maybe this is something I will look at again in FM24, (especially if I continue this save on for a month or so, which looks likely at the moment). 

Even going back to FM21 though, I wouldn't care about CA. I would always be looking at the PA stars. I regularly, (and still do), make selection decisions based on how good a player might become rather than how good they are now. 

For example in this save in Kosovo we're in the middle of a min-injury crisis and just had a flu/cold outbreak too. I wanted to play the players who were ill in the Champions League Playoffs so I didn't send them home. The last starting slot I had to fill in the SuperLeague game between the 2 Champions League games was an MC and I chose to play an 18 year old MC who was not as good as 3 experienced 1st Team midfielders, but he appears to have much better PA than them so I gave him the nod, he scored, we won 6-1 and he got some great 1st Team exposure. I'm often looking to play players based on PA rather than CA long before they're ready for 1st Team football. The way I see it, if you wait for them to be ready before playing them, they will never be ready. You have to play them so that they become ready, (imo). 

[Jimbokav1971]

Feb 2046. 

SuperLeague. 200 goals in a league campaign over 36 games requires an average of 5.56 goals per game. Obviously when he hit 10 or 12 in 1 game then that helps, but we haven't hit double-figures in the league yet this season and without that it's pretty hard to do. 115 goals over 22 games is an average of 5.23 goals per game, so we're not a million miles off. To be on track to his the 200 goals mark we would need to be on 123 goals at this stage, so we're effectively 8 goals behind. Hitting a couple of 10 or 12's could make all the difference, but obviously every time we loan or sell a player to another Kosovan club they get stronger/ 

Champions League. We should have scored about 4 goals against Stuttgart in the 1st leg, but their GK, (Polish Perfectionist with 96 Caps), was in inspired form and he pulled off save after save and/or we hit the woodwork. Thankfully we scored early in the 2nd leg and at 1 point it was 5-0, (before they scored a couple of late counters). We were MUCH better than them over the 2 legs and only the performance of their GK in the 1st leg gave them even a chance. 

Records. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 3 goals and 3 assists this month. 

 

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Youth Intake day. Mar 2046.

As usual I will list the players who I will be not offering a contract to 1st. 

And now the players we are signing. 

(46a) Mertes (KOS)(BEL) looks amazing and could play a part for the 1st Team immediately. 

(46b) Mehmeti looks really decent for a 15 year old and fingers crossed he has a decent PA.

(46j) Piron (KOS)(BEL) is really interesting and it's just his personality, (and his PA), in the negative column. 

[Jimbokav1971]

NxGn 2046. Mar 2046. 

(44a) Lindström (KOS)(FIN) * is only 17 years old so still has another 2 years on this list. He might have been higher than #14 were it not for him suffering a broken toe which has disrupted his playing time this season. 

(42a) Krasniqi 5'11" is developing rather nicely and looks like he could become a hell of a player. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Mar 2046. 

SuperLeague. 29 goals over 5 games is 5.8 goals per game and I've still got 200 league goals in a season in our sights. 144 goals over 27 games is 5.33 goals per game and the target of 200 goals over 36 games requires a scoring rate of 5.55 goals per game, (so we're now 6 goals behind schedule and last month we were 8 goals behind schedule). 

Champions League. We held Chelsea in the 1st leg, but they were dominant in the 2nd leg. 

Kosovan Cup. A comfortable win. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 3 goals scored this month, but 2 pens missed too. 

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Apr 2046. 

SuperLeague. There are 3 more SuperLeague games this season and we need to score 27 more goals to hit the 200 marker at a rate of 9 goal a game. That simply isn't going to happen. 

Kosovan Cup. We're into the Final.

Records. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 4 goals scored, 1 assist but 2 pens missed. Just 1 more goal needed to break the mythical 30 goal barrier. 

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

May 2046.

SuperLeague. We finished 10 goals short of our 200 target, but in our defence, (33e) Shumeli was out for just over 2 months with a torn hamstring and that might have been the difference between scoring 200 goals and not. 

Kosovan Cup. 

Records. 

Goal-scoring GK's. 30 goals in a season for a GK. I've never done that before and I don't think anyone else has either. 

 

Finances. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Facilities. May 2046. 

The stadium is only 2 years old and we've already managed 1 upgrade, but there is a 2nd on the way. 

I can't remember what the minimum capacity for Champions league games is, but after checking it seems like it's 8,000 so this 2nd upgrade will finally make it big enough to play Champions League games at our home stadium.

[Mr Jabay]

Am 5.10.2023 um 17:30 schrieb Jimbokav1971:

So FM21 doesn't have a preview?

Well, it has, but only in text form, like:

This year's crop is not a good bunch

We have one good winger coming through

and so on...

But I also do not think it is a good description of the intake.

 

[Rikulec]

Mertes looks amazing. 

Also, I'm happy that you've now made scoring 200 league goals an official target. 

[Jtomsett11]

On 05/10/2023 at 10:40, Jimbokav1971 said:

Youth Intake preview. Dec 2045. 

I have a question, (or questions), for you. (Yes you!) 

When you look at a Youth Intake preview, what area do you hold most importance in? 

For example, the alphabetical system is big and brash and your eyes are automatically drawn to it. 

Or do you instead look at the much smaller star rating on the right hand side? 

Or you could be a little like me and think that there very little link between the preview and the intake itself, and instead focus on what you know is accurate, (the positions coming through)? 

Just for the record, when I see this sort of "intake distribution by preferred position", I don't actually see 3 strikers and 2 left wingers and bla bla bla. What I see is this. 

6x or 7x SC's. 3xST(C), 2x AM(L), 1x AM(R), (and an AM(C) who could either be a SC or a MC depending on attributes). 
2x or 3c MC's. 2x M(C), (and an AM(C) who could either by a SC or a MC depending on attributes).
1x WBL. 1x D(L)
1x WBR. 1x M(R)
4x DC. 4x D(C)
1x GK.
 

For my part, this is how I see it..... (theory rather than anything else at this stage, and I'm writing this now so I have something to compare my thoughts to later once the intake actually arrives. 

I think the alphabetical rating is quite CA based. The B C C indicates that the better players, (by CA are likely to be a MC, AMC and SC). 
I think the 5.0 star rating system is based on PA. the 4.5 PA "Excellent" rating makes me thing that this will be quite a high PA intake, (especially compared to recent intakes). 
As I have just changed the person responsible for the intakes, (from rubbish DoF to decent HoYD), this also adds weight to the fact that he has had some influence on this intake, (which of course would not be the case in real life and is not something that we'd like to see in the game ideall). Having said that, I do appreciate that this is a complex area.  

Your thoughts? 

I tend to notice that if the star rating and letter is higher then the overall quality of intake is higher. When I get an E rating I know I'm very unlikely to get any players above 3 star PA (which can be good depending where I am in my career; if on the rise up the leagues it's unlikely those players will be useful). I probably look at both letter and star but then straight away the top rated positions. I rarely look at the position distribution gtaphic as in a non- youth only save this doesn't really matter to me,  it's all about the quality of the players rather than abundance. Then I forget all about it until intake day and if I'm honest I usually forget to compare unless the intake is crap! 

[Jimbokav1971]

12 hours ago, Mr Jabay said:

Well, it has, but only in text form, like:

This year's crop is not a good bunch

We have one good winger coming through

and so on...

But I also do not think it is a good description of the intake.

Yeah, now I remember. 

It's still not hugely better in terms of accuracy, (although I'm starting to think that letters indicate CA and star rating indicates PA......) 

[sherwinriga]

17 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

May 2046.

Another wonderful double to end the season! I believe that your team will expect bigger improvement in a few years as long as you could possibly go for the UEFA Champions League Playoffs next season, which is going to be something that will improve your reputation. Other than that, it looks great that you have done it again!

As far as concerned, can you show who won the FIFA World Cup, UEFA Euro, UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League and UEFA European Confederations League, which I believe that you didn't show it yet and it's almost 25 years in the making in that save!

Once again, congratulations on the double!

[Jimbokav1971]

6 hours ago, Rikulec said:

Mertes looks amazing. 

Yeah he does. 

He's now 1 of only 2x players with 5.0 PA at the club, and that's an indication of how far we've come. 

Below that we have just 1x 4.5 PA player and then 7x 4.0 PA players. 

That doesn't sound too impressive, but when you consider the CA rating of certain players at the club it perhaps puts things in greater perspective. 

The best player at the club is 27 year old (35c) Koch (GER) * (who has 58 German Caps), and he will be leaving on a free at the end of the coming season. I could sell him now for good money, but I already have £217M in the bank so I would rather keep him for 1 more season and then let him leave on a free. He's the only player at the club with 4.0 CA. 

After that we have 8x 3.5 PA players and they are the core of the 1st Team, (although the fact that there are 4 strikers in the group means that 1 of them will play for the 2nd Team. 

When you consider that the likes of (33e) Shumeli only has 3.0 CA so doesn't appear on the above lists, and then consider what he has achieved in the save, it puts a different light on those rated higher. Of course he has limitations, and he obviously isn't an elite striker, but he's very very very good for us in Kosovo. 

While it's great having the really top end players like (35c) Koch (GER) *, (and it will be just about impossible to replace him), it's the fringe players that are really key in this save, simply because we have to play so many games. 

[Jimbokav1971]

8 hours ago, Rikulec said:

Also, I'm happy that you've now made scoring 200 league goals an official target. 

You mentioned it 2 seasons running and have got me hooked! 

It is definitely a thing now. 

[Jimbokav1971]

2 hours ago, Jtomsett11 said:

I tend to notice that if the star rating and letter is higher then the overall quality of intake is higher. When I get an E rating I know I'm very unlikely to get any players above 3 star PA (which can be good depending where I am in my career; if on the rise up the leagues it's unlikely those players will be useful). I probably look at both letter and star but then straight away the top rated positions. I rarely look at the position distribution gtaphic as in a non- youth only save this doesn't really matter to me,  it's all about the quality of the players rather than abundance. Then I forget all about it until intake day and if I'm honest I usually forget to compare unless the intake is crap! 

Maybe the position distribution is more important to me because we've been struggling in certain positions, (just even to fill the U19's squad with centre-backs), so for a long part of this save I didn't really care how good they were, I just wanted 3 to come through who weren't going to get released because of poor personality. 

[Jimbokav1971]

33 minutes ago, sherwinriga said:

Another wonderful double to end the season! I believe that your team will expect bigger improvement in a few years as long as you could possibly go for the UEFA Champions League Playoffs next season, which is going to be something that will improve your reputation. Other than that, it looks great that you have done it again!

The Champions League Playoffs are a minimum requirement for me now.

These are all our European finishes in this save and it shows how far we have come in such a short space of time. 

2045/46. Finished 17th so qualified for the Playoffs and knocked out in Last 16. 
2044/45. Finished 5th so qualified for the Knockout stages & lost in Quarter-Finals.
2043/44. Finished 22nd so qualified for the Playoffs.
2042/43. Finished 35th so was knocked out in Group Stage. 
2041/42. Finished 17th so qualified for the Playoffs.
2040/41. Finished 14th so qualified for the Playoffs.
2039/40. Finished 24th so qualified for the Playoffs. 
2038/39. Knocked out in Champions League Playoff, but went on to become Europa League Champions. 
2037/38. Finished 23rd so qualified for the Playoffs. 
2036/37. Finished 23rd so qualified for the Playoffs.
2035/36. Knocked out in the Champions League 3rd Qualifying Round, but progressed to the Last 16 of the Europa League.  
2034/35. Finished 33rd so was knocked out in the Group Stage. 
2033/34. Knocked out in the Europa Conference League 2nd Qualifying Round. 
2032/33. Knocked out in the Europa Conference League 1st Qualifying Round. 
2031/32. Knocked out in the Europa Conference League 1st Qualifying Round. 

So we've qualified for at least the Playoffs in 8 of the 10 last seasons, and qualified past the Playoffs for the last 2 seasons. Even once we lose the likes of (35c) Koch (GER) * next season, I still expect us to qualify for the Playoffs as a minimum. 

I will post the winners of the various competitions later, but I have shown most of them in the thread at some point. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Competition winners as of Jun 2046. 

@sherwinriga

World Cup. 

European Championships. 

European League. 

Champions League. 

Europa League. 

Europa Conference League. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Jimbokav1971

[Jimbokav1971]

Squad stats. Jun 2046. 

Squad by Appearances. 

(32g) Kadriu 6'1" is the 1st GK to have scored 30 goals in a season. I'm well chuffed to finally get it done. 

Squad by Goals. 

(33e) Shumeli missed 2 months of the season through injury and still finishes as top goal-scorer. 

Squad by Assists. 

(35c) Koch (GER) * is about to enter his final season with the club. He's decided he's leaving on a free at the end of his contract and I have been unable to change his mind. He will be a big loss. 

Squad by Average Rating. 

(35a) Siano (ITA) * contributed 59 goal involvements and despite being called up to the Italian squad he's not made his debut. 

[BML]

On 07/10/2023 at 11:49, Jimbokav1971 said:

27/28 would have been a tough one to take for me in this timeline!

[Jimbokav1971]

2 hours ago, BML said:

27/28 would have been a tough one to take for me in this timeline!

I hadn't noticed that one. 

Ouch! 

[Thebaker]

On 05/10/2023 at 10:40, Jimbokav1971 said:

Youth Intake preview. Dec 2045. 

I have a question, (or questions), for you. (Yes you!) 

When you look at a Youth Intake preview, what area do you hold most importance in? 

For example, the alphabetical system is big and brash and your eyes are automatically drawn to it. 

Or do you instead look at the much smaller star rating on the right hand side? 

 

I did a few looks at this a few years ago when the feature came out and realised all the players have a range of CA and PA at the time of the preview, the other details like age, nationalitu are locked. How wide the range is and what the letters are based on i could not work out, maybe the value in the mid range for a player corresponds to the letter.

As a result of this i pay very little attention to the preview unless it tells me that the star rating is 1 and all the players are d and below,

Strangely its always spot on for truly awful intakes.