How do you avoid a poor youth intake?

[ryandormer]

I have had really bad youth intakes every year in my save, despite apparently having a really good set up for it. Is there anything I can do about this, or is it just bad luck?

Here is my head of youth development:

And here are the facilities:

Not sure what else I can do!

[crusadertsar]

You can't really avoid this, unfortunately. Sounds like you already improved everything you could improve. And the rest is not really under direct player control. Unless you move Arsenal to a different country and city 

One bigger factor is actually your location. You are a club in London. This means that your intake gets shared with about half a dozen other clubs, few of which are of rather high reputation like Arsenal.

I usually get great intakes when I manage the only big club in the larger area. Like in my Braga save with worse facilities than yours and worse HoY had three amazing golden generation intakes in a row.

It is unfortunately the sad fact in FM which nevertheless reflects reality. When there are many fishermen in a little pond, the individual catches are not as great 

Edited April 8, 2023 by crusadertsar

[herne79]

8 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

When there are many fishermen in a little pond, the individual catches are not as great

That should be pinned 😀.

@ryandormer One thing to add - define “bad”.  For example - a 3 star prospect may be of roughly equivalent potential as a current first team member.  Further, your coaches are frequently wrong in their assessments.  In test saves I’ve had coaches telling me that certain prospects are way down the pecking order of potential stars but in reality their actual hidden potential has been the highest.

In other words, a “bad” intake may not actually be as bad as it may appear.

[ryandormer]

29 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

When there are many fishermen in a little pond, the individual catches are not as great 

That's probably true! I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for a better one next season

16 minutes ago, herne79 said:

One thing to add - define “bad”

Of course, I have to keep in mind that a really bad intake for my team might be a reasonable one for a lesser team. But at the same time, this is the best prospect that has come out of this year's intake:

I avoid using the editor when I'm playing, but I had a quick check of his potential ability just to see if I'm being too harsh--it's 117! And he's not that much worse than the ones I've had for the last few years. Just bad luck I suppose.

[HanziZoloman]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb herne79:

That should be pinned 😀.

@ryandormer One thing to add - define “bad”.  For example - a 3 star prospect may be of roughly equivalent potential as a current first team member.  Further, your coaches are frequently wrong in their assessments.  In test saves I’ve had coaches telling me that certain prospects are way down the pecking order of potential stars but in reality their actual hidden potential has been the highest.

In other words, a “bad” intake may not actually be as bad as it may appear.

How did you find out?

[herne79]

11 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

How did you find out?

In the test saves?  By using the in game editor.

[arsenal3459]

my understanding is that one of the most important variables to a good youth intake is the world reputation of your hoyd. and then his personality, tactical style, preferred formation, and coaching style can all also impact your intake.

other than that you have everything else looking pretty well maxed out. at least in terms of recruitment and facilities.

maybe consider bringing in a new hoyd with a higher reputation than mertsacker (3 stars) and who might also fit your style of play.

article linked here with more in depth info regarding what your asking. not saying it's 100% accurate, but could be helpful.

[HUNT3R]

8 hours ago, arsenal3459 said:

the world reputation of your hoyd

This has no direct impact on a youth intake. The club reputation is a factor though, especially if there are clubs with the same Youth Recruitment:

https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/500635-youth-intake-in-fm20/#comment-12103524

8 hours ago, arsenal3459 said:

and then his personality

This will influence some newgens' personalities

8 hours ago, arsenal3459 said:

tactical style, preferred formation, and coaching style

And this will influence the "type" of players he would look to bring in.

 

So, yes, while I agree that it does affect newgens (apart from rep), it won't influence the quality of a youth intake, which is what the OP is after. Even if you have the 'best' HoYD, it doesn't guarantee anything:

 

@ryandormer - there's not much you can do at this point. You have the best facilities, so you effectively bought as many tickets for the lottery as you can. It's still a lottery and you're competing against quite a few big clubs just in London, let alone the rest of the country.

I do agree that your best player to come through doesn't look that special at first glance, as I tend to look at physicals first, but he has decent mental attributes for a player that young and physical attributes can develop well in young players. Is this a general trend (Mental Attributes being better developed than other areas) that you see in your newgens? Because, as mentioned, your HoYD can influence (so not all of them) the "type" of player coming through and if it isn't the type you want, it might be time to look for another HoYD.

Keep tabs on how your newgens are developing though. As you've found by looking at your 'best intake player', coaches can be quite wrong when judging players that young. You might see someone rapidly developing when it wasn't expected of them to.

[Drikcey75]

may i add something to the thread?

1. not only the HoYD personnality is important, but the young team staff personnality too is important and can influence intake personnality.

2. your intakes star ratings are compared to your best player at the position he plays. so a 3* can be a really decent player if he develop well, but may be not such as your top player.

3. when the intakes start to pop up, can you see how many clubs had pick up before you? you can check it in world transfers > youth intake then check england box (not sure about how to explain the menu)

the first clubs of this list take the best players.

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, Drikcey75 said:

may i add something to the thread?

1. not only the HoYD personnality is important, but the young team staff personnality too is important and can influence intake personnality.

2. your intakes star ratings are compared to your best player at the position he plays. so a 3* can be a really decent player if he develop well, but may be not such as your top player.

3. when the intakes start to pop up, can you see how many clubs had pick up before you? you can check it in world transfers > youth intake then check england box (not sure about how to explain the menu)

the first clubs of this list take the best players.

Couple of things to consider here I think  

• Staff personality for the u18/u21 squad won't influence the intake I believe, just the HOYD, but it will impact the players when they're in the squad. 
• My understanding is that star ratings are based on the general ability level of your squad, not one player, as well as how useful the player is  to the squad (# of positions played/eligibility for example).

Edited April 11, 2023 by Cloud9

[arsenal3459]

11 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

This has no direct impact on a youth intake. The club reputation is a factor though, especially if there are clubs with the same Youth Recruitment:

https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/500635-youth-intake-in-fm20/#comment-12103524

This will influence some newgens' personalities

And this will influence the "type" of players he would look to bring in.

 

So, yes, while I agree that it does affect newgens (apart from rep), it won't influence the quality of a youth intake, which is what the OP is after. Even if you have the 'best' HoYD, it doesn't guarantee anything:

 

@ryandormer - there's not much you can do at this point. You have the best facilities, so you effectively bought as many tickets for the lottery as you can. It's still a lottery and you're competing against quite a few big clubs just in London, let alone the rest of the country.

I do agree that your best player to come through doesn't look that special at first glance, as I tend to look at physicals first, but he has decent mental attributes for a player that young and physical attributes can develop well in young players. Is this a general trend (Mental Attributes being better developed than other areas) that you see in your newgens? Because, as mentioned, your HoYD can influence (so not all of them) the "type" of player coming through and if it isn't the type you want, it might be time to look for another HoYD.

Keep tabs on how your newgens are developing though. As you've found by looking at your 'best intake player', coaches can be quite wrong when judging players that young. You might see someone rapidly developing when it wasn't expected of them to.

thank you, as always hunt3r, for clarifying this.

had been under the impression for a while now that hoyd reputation had an influence.

always appreciate when you have the real info though!

[Drikcey75]

Il y a 2 heures, Cloud9 a dit :

Couple of things to consider here I think  

• Staff personality for the u18/u21 squad won't influence the intake I believe, just the HOYD, but it will impact the players when they're in the squad. 
• My understanding is that star ratings are based on the general ability level of your squad, not one player, as well as how useful the player is  to the squad (# of positions played/eligibility for example).

thanks for your help!

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, Drikcey75 said:

thanks for your help!

No problem

Star ratings are a pain, partly because they fluctuate based on form. They can be a decent indicator of PA on a young player though!

I'd still give it the eye test for any player regardless of what Stars/Potential your coaches are saying. If they don't have a good foundation of the attributes you want, for the role you'll be playing them, they're probably not getting there. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Cloud9

[HanziZoloman]

Just promoted my Hoyd into Technical Director. Had three good youth intakes in the first seasons but the last were crap. 
But I like having Patrick Kluivert around and promoted him. He is only fairly ambitious but has great abilities. Now I switched to an unknown resolute one who isn’t a coach like Kluivert but a good hoyd hopefully. Thought about a great spirited one but decided for resolut because of professionalism and determination. The model profs and citizens are out of reach.

Did anybody had a spirited one? What are good names you had?

[crusadertsar]

There a few other factors you need to keep in mind. For example I am in process of choosing a Head of Youth, and I also would like to have more youths from other countries, like Ukraine, come through my intakes. Well then this guy seems like a perfect candidate because not only is he a Ukrainian national. BUT he also has extensive scouting knowledge in that nation. Even better his scouting knowledge is extensive (highest) for almost dozen countries including Moldova, Portugal, Brazil, Spain, Azjerbaijan! Mr.Panfilov is a true journeyman! So eventhough his personality might not be the best ("balanced" is well balanced haha) he is just who I need. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by crusadertsar

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, HanziZoloman said:

Just promoted my Hoyd into Technical Director. Had three good youth intakes in the first seasons but the last were crap. 
But I like having Patrick Kluivert around and promoted him. He is only fairly ambitious but has great abilities. Now I switched to an unknown resolute one who isn’t a coach like Kluivert but a good hoyd hopefully. Thought about a great spirited one but decided for resolut because of professionalism and determination. The model profs and citizens are out of reach.

Did anybody had a spirited one? What are good names you had?

Check their media handling on a Spirited personality. Evasive or Reserved will indicate high professionalism. 

• The problem with Spirited (and Resolute which is just Fairly Professional with Determination) is that it don't show Ambition. Pressure is a great attribute but won't assist in a player hitting their potential. 
• I'd only hire hire a Model Citizen or Perfectionist for the role since you know you're getting the big 3 (Determination, Professionalism, Ambition) for development with them. Just make sure the Perfectionists media handling isn't Outspoken, Controversial or Volatile before you sign them.
• Sebastian Pait, River Plates HOYD, is a good example of a Perfectionist who you might be able to snap up. He's a Perfectionist with Evasive & Reserved media handling. Knowledge of 4 countries, and almost perfect attributes. 
• Jean-Sébastien Mérieux is another obtainable option if you're at a decent level. He's in league 2 of France, Model Citizen w/strong attributes.
• If you're starting non-league level I'd just take what you can get and look to upgrade whenever possible. The games given a lot of strong staff personalities to Norway, Argentina, and France so I'd look there for one. Look at clubs with equal to/smaller reputations than yours since that seems to dictate if someone is willing to join.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Cloud9

[HanziZoloman]

Guess I cancel my offer and check again. Thanks for your replies @Cloud9 and @crusadertsar