Xebeche Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 I'm very disappointed that again the lower leagues in the Netherlands are not playable in FM23. Why is that? Kind regards, Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Have you looked in the Editor's Hideaway or Steam Workshop? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xebeche Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 Yes, but these are data updates from users, not from the developer and most of the time they don't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, Xebeche said: Yes, but these are data updates from users, not from the developer and most of the time they don't work. Okay. Maybe you'd like to volunteer to be a researcher for the Dutch lower leagues. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Lukhas Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 5 hours ago, phnompenhandy said: Okay. Maybe you'd like to volunteer to be a researcher for the Dutch lower leagues. It's not even a research problem; having spoken about it with the Dutch researchers, the lower leagues are well researched as far as structure and clubs go. Most clubs have their correct stadium, city, kits and league; only the ruleset and a lot of players are missing. The latter can be managed by using the "Add players to playable teams" option and by waiting it out since there's quite a few free agents in the country. The former requires either passionate users... or for SI to actually want to buy the rights. Nevermind that the Dutch FA cannot seem to figure out their own structure IRL, with the situation between the Tweede an Eerste divisie still not really solved AFAIK. SI just doesn't have the rights to the lower leagues and that's about it, like many other leagues. You could try the Feature Request forum section... though I doubt there's a lot of interest in it. Having built such a db in the past, I know there are passionate people there; just not that many of them on the grand scale of things.https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/353-football-manager-feature-requests-pcmac/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anagain Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 I had a save with the lower Dutch leagues a couple of FMs ago. I actually ended up doing my whole career in Luxembourg but the save didn't break. I think I had Netherlands down to about T4. I got the database from Steam. There are guys there that do databases for many countries every year. Can't think of name of the top of my head. Id recommend adding it and giving it a go. Like Xavier said, teams are often correct regarding stadiums etc. Even the lower league English databases will have teams without players. If you want to play with specific clubs it'd be your best bet. Run the game overnight for a few seasons to see if it breaks. I think a lot of people do that, but the creator might have done so anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, anagain said: I had a save with the lower Dutch leagues a couple of FMs ago. I actually ended up doing my whole career in Luxembourg but the save didn't break. I think I had Netherlands down to about T4. I got the database from Steam. There are guys there that do databases for many countries every year. Can't think of name of the top of my head. Id recommend adding it and giving it a go. Like Xavier said, teams are often correct regarding stadiums etc. Even the lower league English databases will have teams without players. If you want to play with specific clubs it'd be your best bet. Run the game overnight for a few seasons to see if it breaks. I think a lot of people do that, but the creator might have done so anyway. I get the impression that not only has the pregame editor improved over the years, but so have amateur editors who create these database add-ons. I see very few complaints about them crashing the game these days, and I haven't experienced any problems, as someone who plays the game exclusively with lower leagues added. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Lukhas Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 8 hours ago, phnompenhandy said: I get the impression that not only has the pregame editor improved over the years, but so have amateur editors who create these database add-ons. I see very few complaints about them crashing the game these days, and I haven't experienced any problems, as someone who plays the game exclusively with lower leagues added. More so the latter than the former unfortunately; or at least that was my experience of it. The Editor is a very finicky piece of software. I'm still very thankful to the people who helped me, have tried the options out and overall paved the way, but I cannot say that the Editor is something that was a pleasure to deal with; actually I've just cut a good rant about it from this very post you're reading! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Xavier Lukhas said: More so the latter than the former unfortunately; or at least that was my experience of it. The Editor is a very finicky piece of software. I'm still very thankful to the people who helped me, have tried the options out and overall paved the way, but I cannot say that the Editor is something that was a pleasure to deal with; actually I've just cut a good rant about it from this very post you're reading! There are too many times I spent dozens of hours in the editor and the file didn't work. I just do simple stuff like amending carefully made ones. If it weren't for the fantastic lower league editors (and graphics makers), I'd have got bored with FM at least 15 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overmars Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 I am playing a save where I started in Dutch Tier 4. I used Tomijssel's D7 Netherlands download. I am four seasons in, and everything is working well. The only odd thing is the three promotion spots from Tier 3 to Tier 2, so I edited that down using the pre-game editor to limit the number of amateur clubs being pushed to turn pro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 There's a 10-tier Dutch file that's available that does look to be excellent. Can't provide the link here, but if you Scout FM and look for Rein, you might be pleasantly surprised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oche balboa Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 On 12/12/2022 at 16:14, Xebeche said: Yes, but these are data updates from users, not from the developer and most of the time they don't work. They do work and they work well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zek Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 The main reason is there's still no mandatory promotion/relegation between Keuken Kampioen Divisie (Tier 2) and Tweede Divisie (Tier 3). It's supposed to be introduced next season, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was postponed for a few more seasons once again. In the past decade it has been postponed again and again. Not many clubs from the top three leagues have much interest in promotion either. The Dutch FA also owns the licence rights for the teams in Tier 3 and below, whereas the licence rights for the top two tiers are owned by two different partnerships that aren't owned by the Dutch FA. The Dutch FA is really touchy about the licences, hence the Dutch NT coach being named Jan Jansen since FM13 or so and the FIFA and PES games in the 2000's either not having the Dutch NT in the game at all or having fake names. So SI may consider it's not worth getting those licence rights, even if they wanted to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Lukhas Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) On 15/12/2022 at 16:09, Zek said: The main reason is there's still no mandatory promotion/relegation between Keuken Kampioen Divisie (Tier 2) and Tweede Divisie (Tier 3). It's supposed to be introduced next season, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was postponed for a few more seasons once again. In the past decade it has been postponed again and again. Not many clubs from the top three leagues have much interest in promotion either. The Dutch FA also owns the licence rights for the teams in Tier 3 and below, whereas the licence rights for the top two tiers are owned by two different partnerships that aren't owned by the Dutch FA. The Dutch FA is really touchy about the licences, hence the Dutch NT coach being named Jan Jansen since FM13 or so and the FIFA and PES games in the 2000's either not having the Dutch NT in the game at all or having fake names. So SI may consider it's not worth getting those licence rights, even if they wanted to. Those who never had their attack spear-headed by von Mistelroum have greatly missed out. Edited December 19, 2022 by Xavier Lukhas 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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