[FM22] Attempting a Graham Potter style 3421 tactic

[ModerIsta]

So I've been trying to replicate a Graham Potter type Brighton tactic but have had little success with it. The team doesn't create any chances or retain possession, and I do not understand where I am going wrong. From analysis the DLF is very weak in terms of collaboration and impact but I dont know how to fix that. Any tips on how to improve this tactic to make it more competent going forward and to score some goals would be appreciated

[khodder]

Are you aiming to have the shadow striker essentially be your only goal threat? The DLF will drop deep into space that is seemingly already occupied by your playmaker and outside of the shadow striker you really have nobody challenging the central defenders.

[Jack722]

9 hours ago, ModerIsta said:

So I've been trying to replicate a Graham Potter type Brighton tactic but have had little success with it. The team doesn't create any chances or retain possession, and I do not understand where I am going wrong. From analysis the DLF is very weak in terms of collaboration and impact but I dont know how to fix that. Any tips on how to improve this tactic to make it more competent going forward and to score some goals would be appreciated

Are you aware how low your familiarity is? Is it always that low. My best advice to anyone is to think about it as If you were a manager in real life. Can you expect to do well if your team only half knows what they're supposed to do?

[Andrew Marines]

4 minuti fa, Jack722 ha scritto:

Are you aware how low your familiarity is? Is it always that low. My best advice to anyone is to think about it as If you were a manager in real life. Can you expect to do well if your team only half knows what they're supposed to do?

Tactical familiarity means little to nothing.

Source

[Jack722]

1 hour ago, Andrew Marines said:

Tactical familiarity means little to nothing.

Source

That's an interesting video.

Tbh I would disagree. Since he couldn't increase the role familiarity, that bar only looked to have reached about 65% to me. In the first test with the small differences in results, the difference in familiarity wasn't really that big. Probably around a 2/3 to 1/3 split.

You can easily get your familiarity up to 99% by doing individual training.  His team in the video is basically doing the equivalent of zero formation training.. players aren't familiar with how far forward they should get, or what they should each do individually on the ball and off the ball, I think that's big..  much bigger than width or tempo familiarity. 

With the wider familiarity gap in the second part, the results gap was much more significant. Given that this was the difference between 5% to ~65%, I think OP's potential difference from ~50% familiarity to a 99% familiarity, would bring differences closer to the second part of the video.

Besides, you can ask for all the tactical help in the world, but if your players only half know what they're supposed to be doing, you're not gonna get the most out of your team. It just seems like an easy an obvious thing to fix before going into more complicated ideas, no matter how minimal. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Jack722

[Cam NBH]

I would strip everything back to normal roles and get rid of all of the team instructions except one core idea, say play out of defence then work on it from there and add more tis if you need them.

Who will score goals for you? How will you supply them? Where are the gaps when you attack and who will fill them?

It all seems a bit too complicated to me.

You have an APM feeding one player basically. DLF and SS compliment each other, that part should work in theory.

DLP and BWM are a decent pair on paper I think but do think of who the DLP is feeding passes to. BWM could be CM which you can tweak a bit or even B2B to add another body in attack/runner from deep perhaps?

WBs ok, WCB on attack why? Would simplify the defence as well.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Cam NBH

[prched55]

15 hours ago, ModerIsta said:

So I've been trying to replicate a Graham Potter type Brighton tactic but have had little success with it. The team doesn't create any chances or retain possession, and I do not understand where I am going wrong. From analysis the DLF is very weak in terms of collaboration and impact but I dont know how to fix that. Any tips on how to improve this tactic to make it more competent going forward and to score some goals would be appreciated

I love Graham Potter and always try to follow a little bit of what he does. I think what you show is close to what he does in real life, but the problem is FM isn't like real football so replicating something can be really hard. For example, you have a lot of contradictory team instructions. You're asking your team to play out of defense and have a lower tempo but you tell your goalie to distribute quickly. You have the take short kicks instruction ticked but your goalie has the take more risks player instruction because of his role. You're playing a narrow formation and can easily outnumber your opponent in the midfield but you tell your team to push the opponent out wide. You have pass into space clicked but you don't have any players making runs into space. I would cut back on a lot of your team instructions and just focus on the core of Potter's style. So play out of defense, counter press, and pressing more often. You can adjust your defensive line and line of engagement from game to game and even during games depending on if you want to press the opponent in their defensive third or in the middle of the field. This is something Potter does as well depending on opponent and scoreline. 

On a side note. Get rid of whipped crosses. Jonas Wind is a big boy and has tons of support around him. Don't be afraid to use him as a Target Forward on attack. 

 

[Loversleaper]

@ModerIsta

 

One of the first things I noticed was that you said you have troubles retaining possession. If you look at your roles :

DLF 

SS

AP

DLP on support duty

BPD

 

All of these roles have the trait = Takes More Risks which I imagine is the old “try through balls (killer balls)”. That’s half of your outfield team trying this. That will no doubt effect and contribute to your retain possession problem.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Loversleaper

[Tsuru]

I did try this formation with the Control Possession template, as we were on a slump and my assistant manager suggested this combination.

It helped us moving out from the slump, however the problem that showed later was the creation of opportunities. The team was always passing the ball around but space never appeared, we needed a lot of brilliant moments from our striker (or free kicks/corners) to score goals.

The same problem happened when I used other narrow formations (just fullbacks/wingbacks on the flanks), for me the majority of them seem to lack penetration and it looks very hard to create good and quality chances.

If I were you, I would try maybe a different formation but with the same effects in possession. Like a 3-4-1-2 with the two lateral midfielders moving inside, or maybe a 3-4-2-1 with 4 men in midfield and two advanced midfielders behind a single striker, but two DW-S instead of two WBs. It looks much easier to me, this way you have more role/duty options, you can left one central midfielder to help the defence and the lateral ones can give better support to your attacks. 

[ModerIsta]

5 hours ago, Cam NBH said:

I would strip everything back to normal roles and get rid of all of the team instructions except one core idea, say play out of defence then work on it from there and add more tis if you need them.

Who will score goals for you? How will you supply them? Where are the gaps when you attack and who will fill them?

It all seems a bit too complicated to me.

You have an APM feeding one player basically. DLF and SS compliment each other, that part should work in theory.

 

So I've adjusted it slightly, would changing the AP(s) to an AP(A) or SS(a) change the effect of it, and if i change the DLF to a TF/CF would it also enable for space to be created? (thinking along the lines of Spurs with Kane/Son/Lucas Moura)?

[Cam NBH]

Dbl post

Edited April 7, 2022 by Cam NBH

[Cam NBH]

1 hour ago, ModerIsta said:

So I've adjusted it slightly, would changing the AP(s) to an AP(A) or SS(a) change the effect of it, and if i change the DLF to a TF/CF would it also enable for space to be created? (thinking along the lines of Spurs with Kane/Son/Lucas Moura)?

 

 

I may be wrong on this but who is the apm creating passes for? It just doesnt feel right to me there but others may disagree. What about changing apm to another SS/A or even a TQ instead?

Your aggressive high press with basically 3 players looks a bit suspect to me as well, if I were playing against you I would feel pretty comfortable playing through it, down the flanks perhaps. Not sure the high press suits essentially a bottom heavy system.

DLF/S should create space for SS/A, in theory that makes sense to me.

 

"Who will score goals for you? How will you supply them? Where are the gaps when you attack and who will fill them?"

 

Did you ask yourself these questions above? Worth doing I think. Once you have, play loads of games testing it, make notes on what you like and dont like and you can tweak bit by bit until you have what you want. Pay particular attention to transitions. When you attack do you have enough players in the box? Have you done your set pieces?

 

Keep us updated and good luck

Edited April 7, 2022 by Cam NBH

[Damfonik]

I agree with Cam NBH regarding the aggressive press. A quick ball out to the flanks and depending on the opposition formation/roles you could face an overload down your flanks instantly. Your midfield are then forced to cover spaces and could be pulled apart.

Your top 3 players will struggle to get back during the defensive transition to help so it's left to one of your CBs to step up if players in front of them are overloaded and can't track runs because they're filling in holes or covering your WBs.

It also looks like a lot of pressure on your SS to score goals. He is also only really being fed by your AP. Potentially your DLF could weigh in with a few passes, too.

There is the concern that your attacks could become a bit predictable as it looks like you're trying to smash your way through the center. You could become crowded out by a static defence.

All of the above is just my opinion and could be rubbish though and you could end up doing well. That's what I love about this game. You just never know.

[AlexandreMCD]

If your tactic isn't prolific at goal scoring, you're doing a great job recreating Graham's tactic IRL  
Jokes aside, I don't think that the 5-2-2-1 is a great formation in this match engine, since in struggles with horizontal compactness. Also, you will probably lack penetration without more attacking roles, specially on a positive mentality. The feedback posted above by other users should provide a great foundation for improvement.