4-4-2 Help Required?

[edhdurham]

Hi,

I am trying to get my 4-4-2 Vertical Tika Taka to work but I am seeing the same issue and not sure how to resolve.

Team Setup

SW-D

FB-S  CD-D  CD-D  FB-S

W-S  RPM-S  CM-D  W-S

PF-A  DLF-S

Issue I see are:

1. We retain possession OK but never really create anything, its like the movement isnt good enough, but with the RPM and DLF roaming / dropping deep and with options outside I not sure why, I am guessing I need more attack duties?

2. When we lose the ball we are counter attacked against easily, I have a CM-D for the purpose of sitting and stopping counters but it doesn't seem to work?

3. My team look like they are affraid to tackle, if I put the option "get stuck in" then we just give countless free kicks away.  I tend to change the defensive width depending on the tactic I am facing.

I am sticking to the tika taka default pretty much, except I change the temp to quick.

Any help would be much appreciated, should I look at playing a more wing based tactic?!

Thx

[rsihn]

Possession based 442s are my favorite setup in FM and have been for years.  

Every tactical shape is going to have it's strengths and weaknesses that are inherent to it and unfortunately, the default Vertical Tiki-Taka exacerbates one of the main weaknesses of a 442:  it has only 3 vertical bands and is very very susceptible to allowing too much space between the lines if vertically stretched, such as when selecting a higher line of engagement.   442s (or any shape with only 3 vertical bands) need to stay fairly vertically compact to offset this inherent weakness so I would advise you to stick with a standard or lower line of engagement.   With this now more compact defensive system, you DLF-S will be working much more in tandem with your central midfielders as almost a third center mid or as an attacking mid. 

You might also want to reconsider the default Vertical Tiki-Taka instruction of preventing GK distribution also as it frequently attracts both forwards to the GK and disrupts the solid defensive shape that is one of the inherent strengths of a 442.  

 

I don't think there are any inherent problems with the roles you've chosen but they are more typical of a conventional wing play style of play (RPM excepted) rather than Vertical Tiki-Taka.  You could change things up a bit and create more complex movements through the middle by lining your CM-D up behind the PF-A and switching the winger on that side to an IW-S.  The PF-A will now have plenty of opportunities to use his hard-coded Move Into Channels instructions and not be crowded out by the winger on that side and the IW-S can cut inside to take advantage of the CM-D sitting back and the PF-A moving to the wing.  You can then switch your FB-S on that same side to a WB-S to basically cover that entire flank all while the CM-D is covering for everyone.  

          DLF-S   PF-A

W-S   RPM   CM-D   IW-S

FB-S  CD-D  CD-D   WB-S

                  GK

 

You might try the above tactic as an alternate and see how it does for you compared to your existing tactic. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by rsihn

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, edhdurham said:

I am trying to get my 4-4-2 Vertical Tika Taka to work but I am seeing the same issue and not sure how to resolve

442 is not an optimal formation for a style like tiki-taka (or anything heavily possession-oriented), although with a proper setup of roles, duties and instructions can be made to work (sort of). 

 

2 hours ago, edhdurham said:

Team Setup

SW-D

FB-S  CD-D  CD-D  FB-S

W-S  RPM-S  CM-D  W-S

PF-A  DLF-S

However, the problem is that your (current) setup of roles and duties does not seem conducive to a tiki-taka/possession-based style. Wingers (role) on both flanks and relatively conservative FB role(s) don't suit a possession-friendly tactic. 

I don't know what your team instructions are, but even if they are logical from the possession perspective - the setup of roles and duties is still the most important part of any tactic.

[Guv'nor]

Possession generally means centralisation, with a lot of play in the middle of the park. Much like Captain Howdy and the ouija board, to achieve possession, you need people to play with. In this case, bodies in the middle of the park. Wenger's Arsenal did achieve a decent slice of possession pie in a 4-4-2 per se, but in actuality, it was anything but an archetypal 4-4-2, wingers inverted, the Plutonian peeled out to the left, Dennis dropped into the half space, huge central overload in its peak.

Perhaps inverting the wingers or inverting one and going Gypsy Ray with the other, wide midfielder. Bergkamping one of the two up top. Its not impossible but a 4-3-3 will probably deal with it. Nicely. 

[kingjericho]

IMO if you want to create a tiki-taka 4-4-2 you need to assign roles that will create passing lanes and create roaming from the defined banks of 4.

A quick draft for me would be something like:

           CF/a DLF/s

IW/a BBM/s DLP/d WM/s

WB/s BPD/d CD/d WB/a

                SK/d

I'd use a low mentality (Cautious) to set the tone for a patient approach.

Regarding TI there's a lot to choose from but to potentiate the possession game I'd look for instructions to make the team compact and narrow to have the players near each other.

Edited March 23, 2021 by kingjericho

[OJ403]

I had fairly reasonable successes on FM20 playing a similar style. I wouldn't say it was quite tiki-taka as such, instead a slightly more progressive approach with possession being a consequence of our short pass and move approach as opposed to an intention.

Movement was key as has been suggested, with players taking up positions to loosely resemble a 4-4-2 diamond:

I seem to recall using a W-S instead of the DW on the left, a CF-S instead of the F9 and my IWB varied between defend and support duties according to the situation.

TIs were fairly basic, shorter passing and a left underlap and/or right overlap situationally. I varied POoD, short kicks and distribute to CBs/FBs situationally too.