Great quote from Barney Ronay on football in context of Liverpool season . Does FM match up?

[steam just is]

“By the end Liverpool had extended that run to five home defeats. It is a mind-boggling collapse on the back of that 68-game unbeaten run.

Football is often cast as a science, the players as mobile data units, predictable in their movements, their chemistry, their interactions. But never let it be said this is anything other than a business of emotion, anxiety and human qualities, bound up in how the players feel.

Sixty-eight without defeat into five in a row: this really is wild. No matter what we throw at it, football remains the most brilliantly unknowable of human activities.“

Are FM players mobile data units? Does FM make football the most brilliantly unknowable of human activities? Is that why players cry when they’ve lost but can’t explain it? Or is it as simple as buying forwards with 18 pace and waiting for the trophies to come flooding in?

[bazhsw]

Judging by this forum sometimes it's raining absolute tears when, 'I am managing the best team in the world, we have won 9 CL and leagues on the trot and I have just drawn 1-1 after having 50 clear cut chances' happens!

Football is both predictable (the best teams usually win the trophies most often) and unpredictable in that anything can happen on a given day because ultimately you are dealing with 22 individuals with a whole load of complexity thrown in (how they all feel and interact with each other).

Personally I love those FM moments where you batter a side and they win 1-0, or where you get a 93rd minute penalty to get promoted.

I don't know if FM replicates it to the extent real life does (the game can never really replicate that complexity) but I would always cheer for moments where the players don't seem to be data units or OP tactics / players don't behave as expected.

[DP]

A good point here. FM struggles to introduce jeopardy when you’ve established yourself as a top side, especially further down the years you go. 
 

If you won the league with Liverpool it would be unlikely you’d be languishing in 7th the season after. 

[steam just is]

19 minutes ago, DP said:

A good point here. FM struggles to introduce jeopardy when you’ve established yourself as a top side, especially further down the years you go. 
 

If you won the league with Liverpool it would be unlikely you’d be languishing in 7th the season after. 

This is true. I’ve read plenty of articles trying to explain what the Liverpool problem is. it’s all speculation, even Klopp might not know. For what it’s worth my opinion is that it took all their mental strength to collect 200 points in 2 seasons and be unbeatable at home. Once that momentum was taken away they had no mental reserves left. (Although it could be salah is disrupting...)
 

What is correct is retaining the EPL is bloody difficult. Probably for psychological reasons. But how does SI go about factoring all this into the game - hence why great teams stay great in FM.

[sporadicsmiles]

Well, Liverpool's struggles this season come from 2 areas really, that are entwined. A lot of injuries in one position, and poor squad building leaving no quality outside of the starting 11. These things are definitely in the game, or have the potential to crop up. Especially early in a save when a player has not really had a chance to mould a squad as they want it. For example my current save saw me take the Bournemouth job, and they have a paper thin squad that has a good first team but almost nothing below it. So I have to play the same players a lot, which means fatigue is a huge problem for me. I cannot rotate a lot because I do not have the depth, and I cannot increase the depth because I had no budget at the start of the game. So I am always a couple of injuries from having to play some poor players, and that will hurt me. Luckily I did not have to face this yet, but it is a constant danger. 

Players tend to avoid the issues Liverpool have this year by building a solid squad full of good players - it is part of the fantasy element to have as many good players as possible at a club. So this normally diminishes with time. However, other problems like a dip in form and player confidence definitely can happen. 

I guess it is also difficult to know, generally, how common this is. It is not something most people will mention on here, as we like to share our successes more than anything else. So outside of the threads where people want to have a moan about how unfair the game is (nothing wrong with a good moan), I have no idea how common it is. People also have the option to just give up and try a new save if it is not going well. We should have a "share your mediocrity" thread.

[Svenc]

Speaking about data (which FM contains too now)...

According to xG/Xpoints, Liverpool last term weren't quite as dominating as the point table suggested.

EPL xG Table and Scorers for the 2019/2020 season | Understat.com
Liverpool xG stats for the 2019/2020 season | Understat.com

The model at Five Thirty Eight too actually had City sitting up top (which incorporates xG, but also non-shot based xG, and a couple more).

 

As a follower of Statsbomb, I personally too was expecting a closer title race than last term.... of course, City are now completely running away from the pack, which wasn't as predictable. But even acknowleding for xG's flaws, I think even the Liverpool staff (who are data fluent) internally had acknowledged that atop of their good performances, this was a special season. And anybody managing City on FM would have had a heart attack (or accuse the Pool AI of cheating -- again, based on the data now in the game). Klopp, of course is no stranger to "special" seasons himself.

Borussia Dortmund's crisis isn't a crisis at all, and stats prove they will rebound (espn.com) 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Svenc

[steam just is]

10 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Speaking about data (which FM contains too now)...

According to xG/Xpoints, Liverpool last term weren't quite as dominating as the point table suggested.

EPL xG Table and Scorers for the 2019/2020 season | Understat.com
Liverpool xG stats for the 2019/2020 season | Understat.com

The model at Five Thirty Eight too actually had City sitting up top (which incorporates xG, but also non-shot based xG, and a couple more).

 

As a follower of Statsbomb, I personally too was expecting a closer title race than last term.... of course, City are now completely running away from the pack, which wasn't as predictable. But even acknowleding for xG's flaws, I think even the Liverpool staff (who are data fluent) internally had acknowledged that this was a special season. And anybody managing City would have had a heart attack (or accuse the Pool AI of cheating -- again, based on the data now in the game). Klopp, of course is no stranger to "special" seasons himself.

Borussia Dortmund's crisis isn't a crisis at all, and stats prove they will rebound (espn.com) 

Interesting article. Shows how thin the margins between success and failure are.

I won the europa league with spurs and got to final of world club championship. Within a few weeks I was losing 5-0 to West Ham. Statistically it was an even game. One of those matches that infuriates as you can’t explain why it’s happening on FM. but I guess, considering the above, klopp must have same frustrations IRL. and clearly has had it before at Dortmund. 

football bloody hell

[Carambau]

32 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Borussia Dortmund's crisis isn't a crisis at all, and stats prove they will rebound (espn.com) 

 

Quote: "New signing Kevin Kampl will be expected to help reverse Dortmund's poor conversion around goal."

 

[Svenc]

On 06/03/2021 at 10:18, steam just is said:

Interesting article. Shows how thin the margins between success and failure are.

I won the europa league with spurs and got to final of world club championship. Within a few weeks I was losing 5-0 to West Ham. Statistically it was an even game. One of those matches that infuriates as you can’t explain why it’s happening on FM. but I guess, considering the above, klopp must have same frustrations IRL. and clearly has had it before at Dortmund. 

football bloody hell

In parts LFC actually signed Klopp because their analyst staff had figured he was getting exceptionally unlucky that term. 

How Data (and Some Breathtaking Soccer) Brought Liverpool to the Cusp of Glory - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

I wonder what were to happen if this ever happened to @Whufc10000 Garry in-game.