Struggling to score goals

[safcrhys]

Playing as Sunderland in season one, we are doing okay and meeting our objective (top six) but I am really struggling to score goals despite creating a lot of chances and generally having a high xg. It's getting quite annoying having 17-18 shots against the opposition's 2-3 and drawing 1-1.  I'm playing a gegenpress with the only change being to "play for set-pieces" as apparently this squad are a threat from corners and free kicks. Please see my tactic attached.

[tommy0306]

As you've said you seem to be performing at the expected level so I wouldn't dramatically change your tactic, despite any advice givenby me or others who may contribute. This will only lead to you becoming confused and unsure of what your tactic actually does. Because at the end of the day only you can watch your games and know what type of football or how you want the players to play.

Now just from looking at your tactic I could definitely foresee that there could be issues when you have the ball. For instance your playing on a Positive mentality, this means your asking your players to take risks. This can lead to a high amount of shots but not necessarily shots on target or clear cut chances. By itself there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a Positive mentality you just have to be aware of what it brings. But I imagine in combination with the Team Instruction - Extremely High Tempo your players are rushing and producing very inefficient attacking play, which you've highlighted by stating the lack of goals to shot ratio. This is where I would start perhaps removing the instruction or lowering it and seeing the effect it has on the play. Alter it and watch what happens to see if it improves or doesn't. 

The other area I would look at is perhaps playing Fairly Narrow and Pass into Space. Your playing as Sunderland, a big team for League One, I Imagine a lot of sides sit deep against you and want nothing more than for you to try and play it in behind where there is no space or try to play through the middle where they can easily crowd out and win the ball back to launch counters? Is this happening? Watch and see if it is, if so then perhaps you should look at altering these instructions.

All in all I think your roles and duties are well balanced. I'll repeat, your playing well so far so don't just abandon everything, like I've seen others do after being given advice on here! Hope this helps.

[safcrhys]

5 minutes ago, tommy0306 said:

As you've said you seem to be performing at the expected level so I wouldn't dramatically change your tactic, despite any advice givenby me or others who may contribute. This will only lead to you becoming confused and unsure of what your tactic actually does. Because at the end of the day only you can watch your games and know what type of football or how you want the players to play.

Now just from looking at your tactic I could definitely foresee that there could be issues when you have the ball. For instance your playing on a Positive mentality, this means your asking your players to take risks. This can lead to a high amount of shots but not necessarily shots on target or clear cut chances. By itself there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a Positive mentality you just have to be aware of what it brings. But I imagine in combination with the Team Instruction - Extremely High Tempo your players are rushing and producing very inefficient attacking play, which you've highlighted by stating the lack of goals to shot ratio. This is where I would start perhaps removing the instruction or lowering it and seeing the effect it has on the play. Alter it and watch what happens to see if it improves or doesn't. 

The other area I would look at is perhaps playing Fairly Narrow and Pass into Space. Your playing as Sunderland, a big team for League One, I Imagine a lot of sides sit deep against you and want nothing more than for you to try and play it in behind where there is no space or try to play through the middle where they can easily crowd out and win the ball back to launch counters? Is this happening? Watch and see if it is, if so then perhaps you should look at altering these instructions.

All in all I think your roles and duties are well balanced. I'll repeat, your playing well so far so don't just abandon everything, like I've seen others do after being given advice on here! Hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply and advice!

[Experienced Defender]

10 hours ago, safcrhys said:

but I am really struggling to score goals despite creating a lot of chances and generally having a high xg

Extremely high tempo could well be a source of the problem (not necessarily the only one though). Because it forces the players to act (too) swiftly and make decisions in a very quick fashion, which is likely to lead to them making wrong choices/decisions in a number of situations, especially when under pressure (which clear cut chances / 1-on-1 situations are clearly a part of). Which is even more of a problem if your players are not top-class. 

[gooseta]

I'm not a crazy expert when it comes to tactics but have had regular success in 21 so far. For me I think the extremely high tempo might mean you're rushing to generate shots/opportunities which aren't easy to score from, maybe take a look at your xg charts and see where your shot attempts are coming from and how much xg they're giving you. I'd personally also utilise the technical advantage I assume your players (as sunderland) have over most other teams by playing at a lower intensity and instead looking to make clever passes into space and in behind the oppositon defence, rather than racing to get the ball from defence to the final 3rd

[frukox]

17 hours ago, safcrhys said:

Playing as Sunderland in season one, we are doing okay and meeting our objective (top six) but I am really struggling to score goals despite creating a lot of chances and generally having a high xg. It's getting quite annoying having 17-18 shots against the opposition's 2-3 and drawing 1-1.  I'm playing a gegenpress with the only change being to "play for set-pieces" as apparently this squad are a threat from corners and free kicks. Please see my tactic attached.

Your LB, double pivot and your winger could be the problem as well as  your tempo, an overly aggressive defence coupled with Positive mentality. You probably lose the ball during transitions because you sometimes lacked passing options and they play through you easily to put the ball into the back of the net.

Edited January 1, 2021 by frukox

[safcrhys]

36 minutes ago, frukox said:

Your LB, double pivot and your winger could be the problem as well as  your tempo, an overly aggressive defence coupled with Positive mentality. You probably lose the ball during transitions because you sometimes lacked passing options and they play through you easily to put the ball into the back of the net.

Double pivot, is that the BBM? Perhaps makes sense to switch him to just a standard CM?

[safcrhys]

I watch the likes of Lollujo on YouTube and he will have the gegenpress pre-set with the likes of Kettering as well as very similar roles and duties to me yet he seems to constantly have success. For example he is currently doing a lot of what I am being told not to do on here at the moment with Peterborough United and he has them top 6 in the Championship.

Edited January 1, 2021 by safcrhys

[frukox]

48 minutes ago, safcrhys said:

Double pivot, is that the BBM? Perhaps makes sense to switch him to just a standard CM?

 

43 minutes ago, safcrhys said:

I watch the likes of Lollujo on YouTube and he will have the gegenpress pre-set with the likes of Kettering as well as very similar roles and duties to me yet he seems to constantly have success. For example he is currently doing a lot of what I am being told not to do on here at the moment with Peterborough United and he has them top 6 in the Championship.

He has the right players for his style, then. Watch your transitions. You expect to move the ball to the final third ending with a shot on goal. When you lose the ball, pause the game. Go back to the build-up of the turnover, try to find why it happened. When you found your problem and you are sure it happens consistently, just make one change and watch how it unfolds. This is what I do to learn the tactical side of the game. 

Double-pivot means your two CMs which are expected to shield the central channel and delay counterattacks while recycling possession, switch the point of attack and get second balls. In this case, they are your BWMD and BBM. Change them to a simple CMD and CMS. They will be more solid. I don't recommend a playmaker here because you aim for really fast wing-based transitions.

Edited January 1, 2021 by frukox

[tommy0306]

But as you've already stated your performing at the expected level, so how can you realistically complain when all you've done is select a preset and started playing. It shows that the preset is clearly doing its job. Now you want to overachieve, to do this you have to put a bit of work in, watching games, tinkering with your tactic and making good recruitment. I wouldn't worry too much about how others are doing, you have no idea how they play they game. What they portray in their videos and what they dont show could be two completely different things. Maybe they got lucky with the players they had and the preset they chose? Maybe they're very good at recruitment or man-management?

You've got a good base to start from just a little tinkering and watching will only help you get better.

[safcrhys]

1 hour ago, tommy0306 said:

But as you've already stated your performing at the expected level, so how can you realistically complain when all you've done is select a preset and started playing. It shows that the preset is clearly doing its job. Now you want to overachieve, to do this you have to put a bit of work in, watching games, tinkering with your tactic and making good recruitment. I wouldn't worry too much about how others are doing, you have no idea how they play they game. What they portray in their videos and what they dont show could be two completely different things. Maybe they got lucky with the players they had and the preset they chose? Maybe they're very good at recruitment or man-management?

You've got a good base to start from just a little tinkering and watching will only help you get better.

Cheers!

[Os]

I agree about the tempo maybe being a little high especially as i would imagine  Sunderland not having the highest technical players alongside high mental stats.

 

As an aside I don't like your 2 cm set up.

I always look for a more static CM 2 with the 4231, They are the pivots so should remain constant.

For example CMd and a DLPs.

[safcrhys]

1 hour ago, Os said:

I agree about the tempo maybe being a little high especially as i would imagine  Sunderland not having the highest technical players alongside high mental stats.

 

As an aside I don't like your 2 cm set up.

I always look for a more static CM 2 with the 4231, They are the pivots so should remain constant.

For example CMd and a DLPs.

I always like the idea of a BBM, what formation would you say could get the best out of one?

[Os]

1 hour ago, safcrhys said:

I always like the idea of a BBM, what formation would you say could get the best out of one?

 

Any 3 man midfield or diamond.

 

Against weaker teams you can probably get away with using it in 4231 but in my humble opinion it's not optimal.