4-4-2 Simple and effective football (FM21)

[marko82]

Hello guys, I've been playing FM for 20 years and as much as i love the game in last couple of iterations I've been suffering immensely.
With introduction of massive effect of the roles and constant need for tinkering with tactics, FM became really frustrating for me so i always gave up after endless trying of different stuff. 

I've read a lot of articles by great masters of this game like @Cleon, @Rashidi, @Ozil, @Experienced Defender, and it became my obsession to read every night before sleep about roles, width, defensive lines and I've gone for the approach of not caring for the results, just trying to make a tactic that's eye pleasing so i can at least enjoy watching games until I get sacked  
But on FM 19 and 20, i couldn't even do that, or if i did it lasted a couple of games until some bogey tactic (at least for me because i didn't know how to counter it) came around and there was no chances or after 20+ shots on target and 2-3 clear cut chances they scored on the counter and won 0:1. 

Couple of weeks ago I've taken a different approach.
I made a simple tactic with basic formation that every player on any level of competition can understand, that presses pretty hard, doesn't have a lot of TI's but the main thing is that you can change it slightly according to the opponent without overthinking it.  
The perfect formation for this was of course 4-4-2, that every kid that starts playing football learns very quickly.
My version is slightly more modern than the plain old ''two wingers running and crossing the ball to the big guy so he can put it down for the fast guy'' because that kind of football on the higher levels is ancient history and you easily get stopped by almost any team 

Maybe someone has already done it and i missed it on the forums, maybe I've just accidentally found a ''hole'' in ME, but the roles and TI's are pretty logical and it doesn't look as I am exploiting the ME because even if i wanted to, i wouldn't know how
I'm not saying I invented the wheel, it just helped me enjoy this game again, so maybe it can help you think differently when making your own tactic.

So, without further ado, I present you the tactic for the lazy manager that plays nice simple football and wins a lot:



The Wide Midfielders have PI of ''sit narrower'', and both of them have a trait ''cuts inside''.
Pellegrini on the CM-su  has a PI ''take more risk'' because i wanted to emphasize his really good passing, but you can use it without it. 
I use roles for strikers that have PI ''move to channels'' to further stretch the defenses, but I've noticed that Advanced Forward tends to be isolated against different teams, so i opted for this combo.
The beauty of 4-4-2 is that you can use any role that suits your strikers, just make sure that you have one support and one attacking role and both with ''move to channels'' either by putting it manually or them being already encoded for the role.

Basically what this tactic does is:
Wide midfielders cut inside or go near the wingbacks to supply them and come to the positions almost in the AM strata leaving space for wingbacks to cross or pass,
CM-su supplies all of them them with through balls, and DM-su acts like a holder in defense, and joins CM-su in possession phase.
Strikers do their thing because they have a lot of options as WBs and WMs overwhelm the midfielders and fullbacks.
You can sometimes play DM-su as second CM-su, depends on the opponents formation, but this is the ''safer'' option.
What i see is really nice pressing, lot of passing options, very good defense, shots and chances from 6-7 players in the team. 
Opponents very rarely catch you on the counter because of the high line, but they generally don't have a lot of opportunities.
You can go more defensive by putting wingbacks to fullbacks, strikers to pressing forwards on support etc.
Lots of options that don't kill the balance instantly when you choose the ''wrong'' role.

These are the results since I've started using this approach, the draws are a side effect of a hectic schedule and heavily rotating not so deep Roma squad:



I'm really enjoying my save now, not just because of winning, but even in this draws we played really well, just missing chances.
Now I know for sure when a team is better than mine, rather than me not doing a tactical puzzle well. 
So tell me is it a ''fluke'' or the solution has been all these years under my nose and i just overcomplicated things 
I'm still on FM 20, so if someone tries it on new ME, please leave feedback.

Edited December 3, 2020 by marko82

[Saargamer]

Also simply and well described, great instructions :)

[zyfon5]

17 hours ago, marko82 said:

Hello guys, I've been playing FM for 20 years and as much as i love the game in last couple of iterations I've been suffering immensely.
With introduction of massive effect of the roles and constant need for tinkering with tactics, FM became really frustrating for me so i always gave up after endless trying of different stuff. 

I've read a lot of articles by great masters of this game like @Cleon, @Rashidi, @Ozil, @Experienced Defender, and it became my obsession to read every night before sleep about roles, width, defensive lines and I've gone for the approach of not caring for the results, just trying to make a tactic that's eye pleasing so i can at least enjoy watching games until I get sacked  
But on FM 19 and 20, i couldn't even do that, or if i did it lasted a couple of games until some bogey tactic (at least for me because i didn't know how to counter it) came around and there was no chances or after 20+ shots on target and 2-3 clear cut chances they scored on the counter and won 0:1. 

Couple of weeks ago I've taken a different approach.
I made a simple tactic with basic formation that every player on any level of competition can understand, that presses pretty hard, doesn't have a lot of TI's but the main thing is that you can change it slightly according to the opponent without overthinking it.  
The perfect formation for this was of course 4-4-2, that every kid that starts playing football learns very quickly.
My version is slightly more modern than the plain old ''two wingers running and crossing the ball to the big guy so he can put it down for the fast guy'' because that kind of football on the higher levels is ancient history and you easily get stopped by almost any team 

Maybe someone has already done it and i missed it on the forums, maybe I've just accidentally found a ''hole'' in ME, but the roles and TI's are pretty logical and it doesn't look as I am exploiting the ME because even if i wanted to, i wouldn't know how
I'm not saying I invented the wheel, it just helped me enjoy this game again, so maybe it can help you think differently when making your own tactic.

So, without further ado, I present you the tactic for the lazy manager that plays nice simple football and wins a lot:



The Wide Midfielders have PI of ''sit narrower'', and both of them have a trait ''cuts inside''.
Pellegrini on the CM-su  has a PI ''take more risk'' because i wanted to emphasize his really good passing, but you can use it without it. 
I use roles for strikers that have PI ''move to channels'' to further stretch the defenses, but I've noticed that Advanced Forward tends to be isolated against different teams, so i opted for this combo.
The beauty of 4-4-2 is that you can use any role that suits your strikers, just make sure that you have one support and one attacking role and both with ''move to channels'' either by putting it manually or them being already encoded for the role.

Basically what this tactic does is:
Wide midfielders cut inside or go near the wingbacks to supply them and come to the positions almost in the AM strata leaving space for wingbacks to cross or pass,
CM-su supplies all of them them with through balls, and DM-su acts like a holder in defense, and joins CM-su in possession phase.
Strikers do their thing because they have a lot of options as WBs and WMs overwhelm the midfielders and fullbacks.
You can sometimes play DM-su as second CM-su, depends on the opponents formation, but this is the ''safer'' option.
What i see is really nice pressing, lot of passing options, very good defense, shots and chances from 6-7 players in the team. 
Opponents very rarely catch you on the counter because of the high line, but they generally don't have a lot of opportunities.
You can go more defensive by putting wingbacks to fullbacks, strikers to pressing forwards on support etc.
Lots of options that don't kill the balance instantly when you choose the ''wrong'' role.

These are the results since I've started using this approach, the draws are a side effect of a hectic schedule and heavily rotating not so deep Roma squad:



I'm really enjoying my save now, not just because of winning, but even in this draws we played really well, just missing chances.
Now I know for sure when a team is better than mine, rather than me not doing a tactical puzzle well. 
So tell me is it a ''fluke'' or the solution has been all these years under my nose and i just overcomplicated things 
I'm still on FM 20, so if someone tries it on new ME, please leave feedback.

Overall very balanced tactic and not too aggressive. The TI and player roles also make sense what type of football you are trying to achieve here. You can also make a few tweaks and play defensive similar to how Simeone likes to set up. It is a good tactic and your run of good results is well justified. Possibly a few tweaks is needed when teams start to play more defensive against you.

[robot_skeleton]

Wow, I love this approach! You will love FM 21, it is massively improved on 20.

[Number seven]

Really exciting to see someon doing this approach. I did a similar 4-4-2 on FM16 and I stil play that save as I enjoyed the tactic so much and I wasn't able to do the same on the versions comming after.. The only difference in your tactic is that a pressing forward didn't excist in FM16, and I had two CM support and the Wingbacks on attack. Might have to buy FM21 earlier than planned to test something like this out again, or start a new FM20 game.

[RTHerringbone]

I play extraordinarily similarly with Argentinos Juniors at the moment, with the main difference being that the left sided "striker" is actually in the AMCL position as an AMC on Support.

My team instructions are only slightly different and I love the play it creates because it doesn't over commit people forward but does give plenty of support when attacks unfold. Personally I much prefer having only one option in front of the ball and allowing play to build up from behind with quick triangles of possession or rapid counter attacks.

[marko82]

Hey guys, thank you for the comments!  
As Sting said when they couldn't finish some songs they recorded in a studio because they complicated the arrangements: ''Gentlemen, simplicity, not stupidity''

Sometimes when it goes really bad in football (similar to life), it's just you complicating and overthinking things

In my last couple of games I went more attacking, with two MC-su and DLF on attack and we are still making a lot of chances and scoring, while being great defensively.
We've had 3 CCC's and been much better against Juventus, but the game finished 1:1, a huge mistake by Karsdorp who gifted the ball to Cristiano Ronaldo in 92.minute  
But now i don't get frustrated as i used to, because i know this sometimes happen in real life, it's not my tactics fault, and Karsdorp is not a great player, I'm waiting on Florenzi to come back from a loan to PSG
I'll keep you posted about my save as I'm intending to make Roma a European giant with our recognizable simplistic style and  a lot of youth development.
We are not a team that can buy expensive players, so I'm gonna scout a lot and let our kids play, similar to Ajax

[neptune'sblue]

43 dakika önce, marko82 said:

Merhaba arkadaşlar, yorumlar için teşekkür ederim! Sting'in dediği gibi, bazı şarkıları bitiremedikleri için bir stüdyoda kaydetmişlerdi çünkü aranjmanları karmaşıklaştırıyorlardı: '' Beyler, basitlik, aptallık değil '' 

Bazen futbolda gerçekten kötü gittiğinde (hayata benzer şekilde), sadece işleri karmaşıklaştıran ve aşırı düşünen sensin

Son birkaç maçımda, saldırıda iki MC-su ve DLF ile daha fazla hücum yaptım ve hala çok fazla şans kazanıyoruz savunmada harika olurken gol atmak.
3 CCC'ye sahiptik ve Juventus'a karşı çok daha iyiydik ama oyun 1: 1 bitti, 92. dakikada Cristiano Ronaldo'ya topu hediye eden Karsdorp'un büyük bir hatası.Ama  
şimdi eskisi gibi hüsrana uğramıyorum  , çünkü bunun bazen gerçek hayatta olduğunu biliyorum, bu benim taktik hatam değil ve Karsdorp harika bir oyuncu değil, Florenzi'nin krediden PSG'ye dönmesini bekliyorum
Romanları, anlaşılır basit tarzımız ve pek çok gençlik gelişimi ile bir Avrupa devi haline getirmeyi planladığım için sizi tasarrufumdan haberdar edeceğim.
Pahalı oyuncular satın alabilecek bir takım değiliz, bu yüzden Ajax'a benzer şekilde çok fazla keşif yapıp çocuklarımızın oynamasına izin vereceğim.

I read your article. You have created a very good tactic by knowing what you want in simple and very plain language. And I'm curious about the developments. I have only one question. Are there any player attributes (workrate etc.) or PPM that need attention in the WM role? I would be very happy if you answer.

[marko82]

39 minutes ago, neptune'sblue said:

I read your article. You have created a very good tactic by knowing what you want in simple and very plain language. And I'm curious about the developments. I have only one question. Are there any player attributes (workrate etc.) or PPM that need attention in the WM role? I would be very happy if you answer.

Thank you neptune's blue  
For the WM's good PPM is ''cuts inside from the wings'' and it's good to have a player that can pass at least a little bit because they also contribute to playmaking (lets say minimum of 12 for passing and vision is needed).
But if you have a WM on one side that is better in passing like Mkhitaryan, and one that is more attacking inside forward type of player like Pedro, its still ok, especially if they are hardworking like them.
But you know what is really beautiful in 4-4-2, you can also play a wingback on that position, if he has solid technique he can totally play  Bruno Peres who is under average wingback played couple of times on right WM and had really good games.
Spinazzola can play it also really good.
I see you probably manage Fiorentina, so Callejon, Ribery, Bonaventura, Kouame should be killers on that position 
Pol Lirola could play it as well, maybe Biraghi because of good crossing, but then put attacker with good heading and jumping on the same side, like Vlahović  

[marko82]

2 hours ago, RTHerringbone said:

I play extraordinarily similarly with Argentinos Juniors at the moment, with the main difference being that the left sided "striker" is actually in the AMCL position as an AMC on Support.

My team instructions are only slightly different and I love the play it creates because it doesn't over commit people forward but does give plenty of support when attacks unfold. Personally I much prefer having only one option in front of the ball and allowing play to build up from behind with quick triangles of possession or rapid counter attacks.

Thank you for dropping by RTHerringbone! I remember your blog and articles that helped me learn a lot about the game, especially the one from FM 16 about Aston Villa
Very clever thinking with AM-su, and filling all the strata probably has benefits that you cover the whole pitch and there are no weaknesses with different opponents formations.
Does your AM-su have ''get further forward'' or any other PI? What's the other strikers role?
I would like to try it with Roma, maybe use it as another option. 
 

[neptune'sblue]

12 dakika önce, marko82 said:

Teşekkürler neptün'ün mavisi WM'nin  
iyi PPM'si için `` kanatların içini keser '' ve en azından biraz geçebilen bir oyuncuya sahip olmak iyidir çünkü aynı zamanda oyun kurmaya da katkıda bulunur (geçiş ve görüş için en az 12 diyelim. gereklidir).
Ancak bir tarafta Mkhitaryan gibi pas atmakta daha iyi olan bir WM'niz varsa ve Pedro gibi ileri tipte bir oyuncuya daha hücum eden bir WM'niz varsa, özellikle onlar gibi çalışkanlarsa, yine de sorun değil.
Ama 4-4-2'de gerçekten güzel olanı biliyorsunuz, o pozisyonda bir kanat bekletme de oynayabilirsiniz, eğer sağlam tekniği varsa  , ortalamanın altında olan Bruno Peres'i sağda birkaç kez sağ WM'de oynamış ve gerçekten iyi oyunlar.
Spinazzola da gerçekten iyi oynayabilir.
Muhtemelen Fiorentina'yı yönettiğinizi görüyorum, bu yüzden Callejon, Ribery, Bonaventura, Kouame bu pozisyonda katiller olmalı, 
Pol Lirola da oynayabilir, belki de iyi geçiş nedeniyle Biraghi, ancak sonra aynı tarafa iyi bir yön ve zıplama ile saldırganı koy. Vlahović gibi 

Thanks for your advice. I was trying the 442 tactic but could not make a system. I guess it is necessary to think simple(like u said ) And yes, I plan to play a season with Fiorentina with this tactic. If you want, I can write what happened in fiorentina save.

[marko82]

Just now, neptune'sblue said:

Thanks for your advice. I was trying the 442 tactic but could not make a system. I guess it is necessary to think simple(like u said ) And yes, I plan to play a season with Fiorentina with this tactic. If you want, I can write what happened in fiorentina save.

Of course, please do 
i'm curious to see how it unfolds with Callejon and Ribery on WM-s, and Fiorentina is Roma's sister club, Davide Astori and great Batigol connect us! 

[RTHerringbone]

8 minutes ago, marko82 said:

Does your AM-su have ''get further forward'' or any other PI? What's the other strikers role?
I would like to try it with Roma, maybe use it as another option. 

I've been tinkering with the AM. Originally he had no PIs and things worked fine but I always want more! I've added in lots of instructions to move him around and get him a bit more creative (Take More Risks, Roaming, Move Into Channels). The Striker role is DLF (Att).

The only challenge with the system is balance - I do still need to get enough bodies forward and at the right times to make it enough of an attacking threat. I keep adjusting the wide roles to try and get some variety on the flanks whilst retaining layers to the transitions.

[neptune'sblue]

22 saat önce, marko82 said:

Of course, please do 
i'm curious to see how it unfolds with Callejon and Ribery on WM-s, and Fiorentina is Roma's sister club, Davide Astori and great Batigol connect us! 

I tried the dude tactic at Fiorentina. I had tremendous results but unfortunately my save file was corrupted. I decided to try it in my other career (Fenerbahce). Really good. Despite seeing a red card, the team did not lose to A. Madrid on the road. We act very fluently and as a team. Watching the matches is very enjoyable.

And Results.

[marko82]

12 minutes ago, neptune'sblue said:

I tried the dude tactic at Fiorentina. I had tremendous results but unfortunately my save file was corrupted. I decided to try it in my other career (Fenerbahce). Really good. Despite seeing a red card, the team did not lose to A. Madrid on the road. We act very fluently and as a team. Watching the matches is very enjoyable.

And Results.

Oh man, great results! glad you're enjoying it
Is this on FM 21 or FM 20?
Post feedback anytime you want, and if you notice things that could can be improved etc.
I will post some more feedback and progress in couple of days, didn't have much time to play these days

Edited December 5, 2020 by marko82

[marko82]

On 04/12/2020 at 11:06, zyfon5 said:

Overall very balanced tactic and not too aggressive. The TI and player roles also make sense what type of football you are trying to achieve here. You can also make a few tweaks and play defensive similar to how Simeone likes to set up. It is a good tactic and your run of good results is well justified. Possibly a few tweaks is needed when teams start to play more defensive against you.

Thank you   Could you tell me what you think Simeone's setup would look like?

[zyfon5]

3 hours ago, marko82 said:

Thank you   Could you tell me what you think Simeone's setup would look like?

Play with two full backs instead of wingbacks. Two pressing forward on support duty. For midfielders I think one box to box + one CM(s) should be a good set up. For the two wide midfielder you want to play two natural midfielder there instead of traditional wingers. TI toned down a bit so that it is less aggressive. Lower LOE will be needed.

[marko82]

10 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

Play with two full backs instead of wingbacks. Two pressing forward on support duty. For midfielders I think one box to box + one CM(s) should be a good set up. For the two wide midfielder you want to play two natural midfielder there instead of traditional wingers. TI toned down a bit so that it is less aggressive. Lower LOE will be needed.

Thank you! I was thinking about DLP-su and CM-su in the middle, Standard defensive line and lower LOE and without counterpress for Simeone style.

[neptune'sblue]

 

15 saat önce, marko82 said:

Oh man, great results! glad you're enjoying it
Is this on FM 21 or FM 20?
Post feedback anytime you want, and if you notice things that could can be improved etc.
I will post some more feedback and progress in couple of days, didn't have much time to play these days

This is fm21. Everything is fine right now. I have not lost in Cl and Turkish League. I am a leader in both. I'm just playing the "get stuck in" instruction to opposing teams playing with the ball. By playing hard, I spoil their games and play the game I want. and I ran into something strange. When I see a red card and have 10 players, the team fights more. And we score goals. I think this might be related to the team play feature. I've never encountered anything like this before.

The only negative thing about tactics is that it's hard to find players in the WM role. And these players need to be very good. Thanks for sharing with us. I will follow the developments. Think simple, play simple 👍

[marko82]

Today i finally bought FM 21, i'm still undecided what is gonna be my starting save, probably some lower league club until the real life winter transfer window is done, so i can take over my favorite club, AS Roma  Looking forward to updating you on my results and progress!

[neptune'sblue]

21 saat önce, marko82 said:

Today i finally bought FM 21, i'm still undecided what is gonna be my starting save, probably some lower league club until the real life winter transfer window is done, so i can take over my favorite club, AS Roma  Looking forward to updating you on my results and progress!

Glad to hear that. If you improve this tactic please give feedback. I will follow.

[wilcoadams]

I Know im 1.5 years late, but i started using this style with Excelsior in the second dutch league and i must say its a blast! It's simple yet complete. Also the used roles make it super easy to tweak things when you see oppurtinities during a match. Many thanks!

[marko82]

@wilcoadamsthank you!  i'm not sure how you even discovered this post after so long  i tried this with AS Roma again in FM 22 and it wasn't going so well as in FM 21, the interplay between players is still great, but it's not as efficient (much less goalscoring chances etc.)
Maybe it's simplicity isn't enough anymore for bigger clubs in the new iteration of the game, so that's why you're having success in lower leagues.
Although, that was before final updates, so maybe match engine updates brought it back to life.
I will try it again and post my results
If you happen to try it with some bigger club, please report your findings

 

[marko82]

2 hours ago, fraudiola said:

442 was my most successful tactic in FM21 but had loads of trouble with it in FM22 due strikers (and wide players) being a bit wonky in FM22, dribbling wide, and PF/AF dropping much deeper to connect in build up plays due to people playing AFs in a single striker formation complaining about them being too isolated at times whereas in a 442 you'd want your attack duty striker to be pinning back the D line and looking to make runs behind constantly instead of trying to link up plays, that's the TM/DLF's job. 

so that's probably one of the reasons...

That is probably one of the reasons, cause i noticed as well that all of the strikers are dropping down much more in fm 22.
So when i use this tactic in FM 22 it means we still have a great interplay as in FM 21, passing is fluid, but when we reach the final third, there is no one to pass the ball to and about 90 percent of attacks finish outside of the box, central and wide midfielders passing it endlessly until someone shoots from distance out of pure frustration
I will maybe try putting the DLF in attacking role, but i'm afraid of losing defensive stability because with two strikers on attacking roles equal losing the 4-4-1-1 defensive shape.
Maybe the solution is to put both strikers on man marking the midfielders, i need to try it

[marko82]

1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

i blame the tiki taka cry babies lol

try reshaping a midfielder into a striker and train gets forward whenever and gets into opposition box ppm on him since you can't train either of those on a natural striker. 

great idea! thanks