Chelsea Tactical Setup Help

[SteveDavis85]

Please bare with me, I am a bit of a rookie at Football Manager.

I am about to start a new Chelsea save and want to play a 'Positive' 4-1-4-1 Wide with the formation below

 

Roles and Team Instructions:

In Possession:- Shorter Passing, Play Out of Defence, Low Crosses, Work Ball into Box, Higher Tempo, Focus Play Through the Middle

In Transition:-  Take Short Kicks, Distribute to Playmaker, Counter, Counter Press, 

Out of Possession:- Higher D Line, Higher LoE, More Urgent, Prevent GK Distribution

 

                     PF (A)

  IF(S)                                W(S)

        AP(S)              BBM(S)

                    DLP(D)

CWB(S)    CD(D)   BPD(D)   WB(S)

                      SK(S)

 

GK: Kepa (SK-S) / Caballero (SK-S)

RB:  Azpilicueta (WB-S)  / James (WB-S)

CD - Christensen (BPD-D) / Tomori (BPD - D)

CD - Rudiger (CD-D) / Zouma (CD-D)

LB - Alonso (CWB-S) / Emerson (CWB(S)

DM - Jorginho (DLP-D) / Kovacic (DLP (D)

CM - Kovacic (AP-S) / Loftus-Cheek (AP-S)

CM - Kante (BBM-S) / Mount (BBM-S)

RW - Willian (W-S)  / Pulisic (W-S)

LW - Pedro (IF-S) / Hudson-Odoi (IW-S)

CF - Abraham (PF-A) / Giroud (TM-S)

 

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice based on the above? Any amendments to Tactics/Player Roles? Any Individual Instructions to apply?

The 2 positions I am a little confused about are the midfield pairing and the wingers. I am not sure what role Mount will play in FM 2020, BBM (same role as Kante) or A Mezzala (S). I dont think he has the attributes to be an AP in FM2020. Also, in reality Pulisic plays RW or LW and cuts inside running with the Ball, however FM2020 tends to force him to be a Right winger. That is fine but next summer, Ziyech will sign (pre-arranged) and as a left footer he wont be able to play W (S) so would it matter if I simply slotted him in as a IW (S) with other players remaining in the same role? I could then have them on a rotation with Pulisic as a W (S) and Ziyech as an IW (S) on that right side.

Please bare in mind the players I have at my disposal as I cannot put square pegs in round holes. I also have to consider where/how the likes of Mount/CHO/Pulisic/James/Abraham/RLC will play long term and also with Gallagher/Ampadu/Maatsen/Gilmour amongst other out on loan, will I be able to integrate them into a setup I had been building for an entire season by the end of the 2019/2020 season. 

Thanks guys and sorry for the long post. Any help would be awesome please.

 

 

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[EnigMattic1]

I think the main point 'could' be the lack of attacking roles. You only have 1, although, if you played Giroud, you wouldn't have any. And I think 2 playmakers close to each other may also be an issue.

There are some members on here who are more tactically knowledgeable than me, like @Experienced Defender, who will be able to point you in the right direction. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by EnigMattic1

[Justified]

I'm going to try and lay on an assist here but I'm sure ED will ultimately slam the goal home

Initially looking at your instructions it looks a little Vertical-Gegen-Esque but I think you have a few overkill instructions which you probably don't need. I'd ditch Focus Passing and the Crossing instructions. Focus passing is situational and low crossing when you have Abraham and Giroud as strikers seems a bit illogical? With the transitional and out of possession I'd observe and see what is happening. You're a big enough team to pull it off against mid and lower table but against the big boys I think you're going to get ripped apart. They're going to play around your press and pull your team out of position.

As for player roles I wouldn't go with PF (A), he will not find space as you're trying to pin in the opposition. If you're going to play so high up you need a support withdrawn roles to pull opposition out. 2 playmaker roles is overkill. Who is you player looking to? AP or DLP? Also you have BPD and a SK on Support distributing to playmakers. So what's the plan here? Feels like you bypass the BPD completely so is he really necessary? 

A possible route you could go is do what Sarri and Lampard don't and play Kante in his best role in DMC and move Jorginho further forward in a DLP support role in midfield. I don't know Chelsea's squad inside out but you could have Kovacic as backup to Jorginho, play Mount as CM (A) on the same side you have Willian as a winger in support. With Tammy as a DLF on support he'll come deep, Mount would runs in behind. You could also use Pedro and CHO as IF's on attack to run into the same space. But then you'd probably need the DL to get further forward to utilise the space the IF leaves.

If you want to utilise a BPD then make sure he's not bypassed. Distribute to CD's and fullbacks to give your SK options and not too one dimensional. EDIT Saw you've got PoD selected so you probably don't need to select anything as the SK (S) will decide himself what the best option is.

Hope that helps a little.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Justified

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, SteveDavis85 said:

PF (A)

  IF(S)                                W(S)

        AP(S)              BBM(S)

                    DLP(D)

CWB(S)    CD(D)   BPD(D)   WB(S)

                      SK(S)

 

1 hour ago, EnigMattic1 said:

I think the main point 'could' be the lack of attacking roles. You only have 1, although, if you played Giroud, you wouldn't have any. And I think 2 playmakers close to each other may also be an issue.

There are some members on here who are more tactically knowledgeable than me, like @Experienced Defender, who will be able to point you in the right direction

First off, I absolutely agree with @EnigMattic1 points on the use of 2 playmakers so close to each other and the lack of penetration due to a shortage of attack duties.

I would also add the potentially vulnerable left flank in terms of role selection, because you have the fullback in a very attack-minded role (CWB) without proper defensive cover in the midfield. Okay, this may not be too much of an issue in this particular case thanks to the quality and strength of your team (Chelsea), but when it comes specifically to the CWB as a role, it makes a lot more sense in narrow systems (where he is the only wide player). 

2 hours ago, SteveDavis85 said:

In Possession:- Shorter Passing, Play Out of Defence, Low Crosses, Work Ball into Box, Higher Tempo, Focus Play Through the Middle

In Transition:-  Take Short Kicks, Distribute to Playmaker, Counter, Counter Press, 

Out of Possession:- Higher D Line, Higher LoE, More Urgent, Prevent GK Distribution

Instruction look so-so, but where is the team mentality?

[SteveDavis85]

47 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

First off, I absolutely agree with @EnigMattic1 points on the use of 2 playmakers so close to each other and the lack of penetration due to a shortage of attack duties.

I would also add the potentially vulnerable left flank in terms of role selection, because you have the fullback in a very attack-minded role (CWB) without proper defensive cover in the midfield. Okay, this may not be too much of an issue in this particular case thanks to the quality and strength of your team (Chelsea), but when it comes specifically to the CWB as a role, it makes a lot more sense in narrow systems (where he is the only wide player). 

Instruction look so-so, but where is the team mentality?

So would you suggest a change in CM role or having the Left Back at WB (S) with the Left Winger on IW (A) ?

In reality, I do see Chelsea having that Left Back go forward (Alonso / Emerson) with the Left Winger cutting inside (CHO / Pulisic / Pedro) whilst Mount, usually in the LCM position gets forward to score goals.

I guess that's what I was going for although I have no idea how to play Mount here whilst getting Kante and Kovacic / Jorginho in the team. Mount is the future of that midfield IMO.

Regarding the mentality, I am toying with either Positive or Balanced. Not too attacking but a Controlled Possession type.

[Experienced Defender]

29 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

So would you suggest a change in CM role or having the Left Back at WB (S) with the Left Winger on IW (A) ?

Changing the LB into a WB on support (instead of CWB) and then changing the AML into IW on attack duty is one possible option. But there are other options of course. A number of combinations can work. Some work more smoothly, others less so. So it really depends on what you want to achieve. 

 

34 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

In reality, I do see Chelsea having that Left Back go forward (Alonso / Emerson) with the Left Winger cutting inside (CHO / Pulisic / Pedro) whilst Mount, usually in the LCM position gets forward to score goals

Well, if you want that particular type of attacking play on the left side, then my optimal combination of roles would be this one:

IWsu

       MEZat

WBsu

However, this might also require a couple more tweaks elsewhere. Because you always need to take the whole tactical setup into account. 

38 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

although I have no idea how to play Mount here whilst getting Kante and Kovacic / Jorginho in the team. Mount is the future of that midfield IMO

Speaking specifically of these 3/4 players, these are the setups I personally would consider:

PFat

IWsu                               Wat

MEZat     BMWsu

DLPde

WBsu   CD  CD/BPD   WBsu  

With Jorginho as the DLP in DM and Kante as the BWM. 

The other one is this:

PFat

IWsu                                Wsu

DLPsu    MEZat

A/DMde

FB/WBat   CD  CD/BPD    IWBsu

With Kante as either anchor or DM on defend duty and Jorginho as the DLP in MCL. 

48 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

Regarding the mentality, I am toying with either Positive or Balanced. Not too attacking but a Controlled Possession type

Okay. Anyway, when it comes to team instructions, I think that you really don't need to use Focus through the middle, because trying to force the play through the most congested area can hardly be helpful when you need to break down defensive opposition. Other in-possession TIs look okay in general, although a couple of small tweaks will likely be needed (at least occasionally). 

In transition, I would definitely remove both the distribution to PM and take short kicks. Given that you are already playing out of defence and with shorter passing, your playmaker will be involved a lot by default. So there is really no need to specifically tell the keeper to distribute the ball to the PM and even via short kicks at that, because it does not only leads to potential tactical overkill but can also entail a completely unnecessary risk. 

The Counter TI should rather be used on a situational basis IMHO (to avoid losing possession more often than necessary), whereas counter-press is okay as long as you are using it with a degree of caution (especially against other strong teams). 

Regarding the out of possession TIs, not sure that you need more urgent pressing (especially as a regular part of the starting tactic). But anyway, play and see what happens. 

[SteveDavis85]

3 hours ago, Justified said:

As for player roles I wouldn't go with PF (A), he will not find space as you're trying to pin in the opposition. If you're going to play so high up you need a support withdrawn roles to pull opposition out. 2 playmaker roles is overkill. Who is you player looking to? AP or DLP? Also you have BPD and a SK on Support distributing to playmakers. So what's the plan here? Feels like you bypass the BPD completely so is he really necessary? 

I want Tammy to be one of the main sources of Goals here as he is for Chelsea in Reality. Perhaps a DLF (A) would achieve this? Although, it will take some training as FM 2020 sees him as a PF/AF

Regarding the Playmaker situation, I think for sure Jorginho would play a DLP (D) here in the DMC Position. This way he can dictate the play from deep. I semi-understand what you are saying about the AP role being in conflict although not unheard of. For this style of play, the only other way I can think of here is to have the LCM as a Mezzala which Kovacic and Mount can both play. However, I didnt go for that as I though it would conflict with the Left Winger being an IW (S) role.

That would also leave the RCM position. I am thinking a BBM here for Kante but no idea how to back him up. RLC/Barkley are both Advanced PM, maybe RLC could get away with DLP (S) but that would go back to the Playmaker conflict again.

Mount tends to get forward and defend high up the pitch, a Mezzala is exactly what he is. I only though BBM to "fit him in" with Kvacic in the team also. 

The strongest 3 to begin with are Jorginho, Kante and Kovacic but who to rotate in where and long term thinking is my issue.

[SteveDavis85]

10 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Speaking specifically of these 3/4 players, these are the setups I personally would consider:

PFat

IWsu                               Wat

MEZat     BMWsu

DLPde

WBsu   CD  CD/BPD   WBsu  

With Jorginho as the DLP in DM and Kante as the BWM. 

I think this is close on the Left side to be honest so thank you for that. I could have Mount / RLC rotating in that LCM role long term as they are young enough to lock that position down between them.

RLC Traits are "Runs with ball through Centre" + "Tries to play way out of trouble" so I am guessing this means he would be a ball carrier. 

Mount Traits are "Arrives late in opposition area" + "Curls ball" so he would be that goalscorer as opposed to a ball carrier.

I could even play Barkley here as the Mez (A) I am guessing?

 

Now the Right Side of the team.

Presuming I start with Kante in the BWM (S) role. I have Kovacic, Barkley & RLC (if Mount plays) to rotate in/out of the team so what roles do you think they could cover there (if any)

Barkley is physical has poor defensive & mental stats so he wont really fit in here. RLC is also very physical but again, not the best defensively and more of a playmaker/ball carrier.

The AMR position is good for now, Willan / Pulisic can do this. However, when Ziyech signs (pre-arranged), could I simply slot him in as an IW (S)  / IF (S)  which are his best roles, or will this then conflict?

 

The whole squad seems very imbalanced to me

[Experienced Defender]

16 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

I could even play Barkley here as the Mez (A) I am guessing?

I would need to see his profile first, but he is definitely more suited to a mezzala role than BMW. 

 

18 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

Presuming I start with Kante in the BWM (S) role. I have Kovacic, Barkley & RLC (if Mount plays) to rotate in/out of the team so what roles do you think they could cover there (if any)

You mean when Kante cannot play? 

 

20 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

Barkley is physical has poor defensive & mental stats so he wont really fit in here. RLC is also very physical but again, not the best defensively and more of a playmaker/ball carrier

That's why my preferred setup would be the one with Kante in DM and Jorginho in MCL. That one is easier to rotate, because Kovacic (or even Jorginho) can replace Kante in DM when necessary, but it's hard to find a proper substitute for Kante in the BWM role. 

 

24 minutes ago, SteveDavis85 said:

The AMR position is good for now, Willan / Pulisic can do this. However, when Ziyech signs (pre-arranged), could I simply slot him in as an IW (S)  / IF (S)  which are his best roles, or will this then conflict?

As with Barkley, I would need to see Ziyech's player profile first. 

[SteveDavis85]

6 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I would need to see his profile first, but he is definitely more suited to a mezzala role than BMW. 

See attached for Barkley's profile

 

7 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

As with Barkley, I would need to see Ziyech's player profile first. 

See attached for Ziyech's profile

 

8 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

You mean when Kante cannot play? 

No, I am saying that Kante is nailed on for that RCM spot (as BBM or BWM). But, when he is unavailable, what role can replace that role he occupies without causing an issue.

For instance, If I have a Mez (A) in LCM, what roles can compliment that considering my Centre Midfielders I have available (I have attached screenshots of Kante, Mount, RLC, Kovacic, Van Ginkel & Barkley)

I also uploaded Wingers for role comparison to what we have discussed

 

13 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

That's why my preferred setup would be the one with Kante in DM and Jorginho in MCL. That one is easier to rotate, because Kovacic (or even Jorginho) can replace Kante in DM when necessary, but it's hard to find a proper substitute for Kante in the BWM role. 

I completely get that, I really do. However, Jorginho has pretty good defensive stats in terms of Tackling (16) and Positioning (15).  Marking (12) and Strength (11) aren't the best but Kante is Marking (12) and Strength (14) so not a world apart.

 

Below  is how I see Chelse play, and I would like to try to play similar, but I am not sure how to translate into FM 2020.

 

DL - Gets forward on an overlap linking with the AML, more attacking and an occasional goal threat (Alonso mainly for goals)

DR - Stays wide and gets forward but deeper than the DL. Mainly crosses from deep and supports

CB - Not significant here as I will tailor them as needed.

DMC - Usually Jorginho sit in from of the back 4 intercepting and dictating the game from deep. Kovacic has deputised here but I would need to sign a playmaker in January I think, this is the main playmaker in the team.

LCM - Gets further forward with Mount pressing high and chipping in with goals or Kovacic collecting deep and carrying the ball forward

RCM - Usually Kante, gets up and down the pitch looking to break up play or intercept passes. When Kante is unavailable Chelsea aren't as defensively strong. I have seen mainly Barkley deputise but as more of a playmaker, something RLC could do but he has been out injured this season.

AML - Usually CHO or Pulisic (Pedro of late) cut inside, get into the box.

AMR - Usually Willian, sometimes CHO or Pulisic, stay wider but still do cut inside. They usually play-make rather that score on that side.

CF - Comes deep to link play. Tammy gets into the box more to score whereas Giroud will provide flick ons and hold up play.

 

The passing is short but the tempo is high. 

The Line of engagement is high with lots of high, intense pressing 

There is a mixed focus of play.

Chelsea generally play out from the back with the DMC giving another option

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, SteveDavis85 said:

See attached for Barkley's profile

He can play as a mezzala on attack duty when necessary, although he might struggle due to his off the ball and decisions not being particularly impressive (both only 11). 

 

1 hour ago, SteveDavis85 said:

See attached for Ziyech's profile

You can play Ziyech as a classic winger in AMR even though he is left-footed, because it can actually make him act like a sort of hybrid between the winger and IW and thus add a different and interesting dynamic to your attacking play on that side. 

 

1 hour ago, SteveDavis85 said:

I am saying that Kante is nailed on for that RCM spot (as BBM or BWM). But, when he is unavailable, what role can replace that role he occupies without causing an issue

Depends on who replaces him in a given situation and of course what the rest of your setup looks like. Speaking purely in terms of role tweaking, the most logical substitute for the BWM would be carrilero. BBM may also work, but could require another tweak elsewhere in order for overall tactical balance to be kept. 

 

1 hour ago, SteveDavis85 said:

For instance, If I have a Mez (A) in LCM, what roles can compliment that considering my Centre Midfielders I have available (I have attached screenshots of Kante, Mount, RLC, Kovacic, Van Ginkel & Barkley)

You mean what roles can be played in the other CM spot (MCR) alongside the mezzala or which roles can be used instead of the mezzala in MCL? 

Remember, you cannot look at any role(s) in isolation. You always have to consider the setup as a whole. Taking into account the quality and strength of your team of course, because better teams can afford a bit more risk compared to average ones or underdogs, but balance still needs to be there anyway. 

1 hour ago, SteveDavis85 said:

I also uploaded Wingers for role comparison to what we have discussed

All these 4 guys can play on both flanks in the roles that are currently used in your tactic (IW on the left and winger on the right). 

[SteveDavis85]

Really appreciate the feedback, thanks for taking the time.

Two last questions if that is ok please?

Firstly, Is there any unwritten rules so to speak about the 'balance' you mention? By that I mean "You need one of this type, one of this type and one of this type in your 3 man midfield". For example, the great Barcelona midfield had Busquets (HB - D) in the DMC Position with Xavi (DLP - S) and Iniesta (AP - A) in the CM Positions. A defensive player, a holding midfielder and a more forward thinking midfielder. I would like to think "I need this type of player in DMC, this type of player in LCM and this type of player in RCM" if that makes sense.

Secondly, do you let Assistant deal with Training & opposition instructions?

Edited April 7, 2020 by SteveDavis85

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, SteveDavis85 said:

Is there any unwritten rules so to speak about the 'balance' you mention? By that I mean "You need one of this type, one of this type and one of this type in your 3 man midfield". For example, the great Barcelona midfield had Busquets (HB - D) in the DMC Position with Xavi (DLP - S) and Iniesta (AP - A) in the CM Positions. A defensive player, a holding midfielder and a more forward thinking midfielder. I would like to think "I need this type of player in DMC, this type of player in LCM and this type of player in RCM" if that makes sense

Yes, that's about the tactical balance I was talking about. But that's just one part of the equation. You need to make sure that there is balance not just within certain areas of your setup (e.g. midfield or a flank) but also between those areas. Sometimes for example, your more attack-minded CM should not be played on attack duty (in a 4231 for example) but rather on support duty but in a runner type of role (such as BBM or CM or mezzala) as opposed to a holding or covering role. Sometimes even both CMs can be played as holding/covering midfielders (again the 4231 comes to mind), especially when you want both fullbacks/wing-backs in roles that bomb forward regularly. 

 

2 hours ago, SteveDavis85 said:

Secondly, do you let Assistant deal with Training & opposition instructions?

I personally manage both of these myself. 

[poma]

I have BIG problems getting my striker in the game, Abraham, Giroud doesn't score but the midfield does and the defence is stable though.