How to break defensive teams after a few seasons

[Fikintiki]

Sorry but if you trying to play a 4231 possesion tactic its always same results with everyone in this ME. You are winning but its not enjoyable and wants you to alt f4 lol. I'm playing a newly promoted-lowest waged and only national players youth challenge in my second season with a turkish team. You cant believe maybe but im 3. in league with a possesion tactic beating nearly everyone. My tactic heavily based on controling the game(60-65%) in opponets half and overlapping fullbacks. B plan is i have 3 cm camping around box and providing longshots. They have buffed longshots so i can win everygame with this little team. My suggestion to you could be playing a 442 with a direct passing high tempo. Even rashidi has changed his tactics on youtube series to direct passing and fast balls over the top because possesion stly isnt really enjoyable right now ^^ Btw someone was in forum was making benfica youth challenge and it was very succesful with 4411 and 442. You can check his topic also.

[NabsKebabs]

58 minutes ago, Fikintiki said:

Sorry but if you trying to play a 4231 possesion tactic its always same results with everyone in this ME. You are winning but its not enjoyable and wants you to alt f4 lol. I'm playing a newly promoted-lowest waged and only national players youth challenge in my second season with a turkish team. You cant believe maybe but im 3. in league with a possesion tactic beating nearly everyone. My tactic heavily based on controling the game(60-65%) in opponets half and overlapping fullbacks. B plan is i have 3 cm camping around box and providing longshots. They have buffed longshots so i can win everygame with this little team. My suggestion to you could be playing a 442 with a direct passing high tempo. Even rashidi has changed his tactics on youtube series to direct passing and fast balls over the top because possesion stly isnt really enjoyable right now ^^ Btw someone was in forum was making benfica youth challenge and it was very succesful with 4411 and 442. You can check his topic also.

Rashidi hasn't changed his style at all. When he plays lower league, he always plays more direct. 

[Fikintiki]

2 dakika önce, NabsKebabs said:

Rashidi hasn't changed his style at all. When he plays lower league, he always plays more direct. 

i have watched his lyon vs roma home match yesterday and im sure it was direct play and his all goals come from fast direct passing or crossing. I'm  not sure what he played against lesser rep teams in his league wins but i think he was trying a 352 libero wb tactic with 2 strikers in that career. So i suggest him to play some direct play because it seems overpowered in current ME.

[LukasZ_VCF]

On 18/11/2018 at 14:47, craiigman said:

I find this a lot playing as Salzburg since I’m the dominant team in the league. I’m unbeaten in league but each game is more of a slog than I’d like. 

Last game I had lower LOE and high line. They had more of the ball but still only had 1/2 shots. I won 2-0 with 1 being a set piece and the other a direct ball over the top.

I can win, no real trouble, but it’s mostly boring as you mention.

 

How long are u playing Salzburg? I thought that with the best team in the league you will be like winning 5-0 etc and getting good form and rating, so you could focus on CL so basically it will be not like that ?

Btw. How much income they make every year? I saw they have like 75mln euro or something like that on the start, they were collecting it over the years or they got that money now and will be getting the same every year from sponsors etc?

[craiigman]

On 14/12/2018 at 08:45, LukasZ_VCF said:

 

How long are u playing Salzburg? I thought that with the best team in the league you will be like winning 5-0 etc and getting good form and rating, so you could focus on CL so basically it will be not like that ?

Btw. How much income they make every year? I saw they have like 75mln euro or something like that on the start, they were collecting it over the years or they got that money now and will be getting the same every year from sponsors etc?

My save corrupted/ wouldn’t load. Even the back up for it. No idea what happened.

I didn’t make it to January so I can’t answer all your questions,

However it’s easy to beat the other teams in the league, I was dominating. Just it wasn’t as satisfying as I would have liked. Bit of a slog some of them vs very defensive teams.

[shadster]

On 14/12/2018 at 06:42, Fikintiki said:

Sorry but if you trying to play a 4231 possesion tactic its always same results with everyone in this ME. You are winning but its not enjoyable and wants you to alt f4 lol. I'm playing a newly promoted-lowest waged and only national players youth challenge in my second season with a turkish team. You cant believe maybe but im 3. in league with a possesion tactic beating nearly everyone. My tactic heavily based on controling the game(60-65%) in opponets half and overlapping fullbacks. B plan is i have 3 cm camping around box and providing longshots. They have buffed longshots so i can win everygame with this little team. My suggestion to you could be playing a 442 with a direct passing high tempo. Even rashidi has changed his tactics on youtube series to direct passing and fast balls over the top because possesion stly isnt really enjoyable right now ^^ Btw someone was in forum was making benfica youth challenge and it was very succesful with 4411 and 442. You can check his topic also.

I like possession and control, but I don't need necessarily to have 60% possession every game. I just found it odd, because the possession numbers reduced a lot tome, and I was trying to understand if and how changes I made contributed to them.

[Rashidi]

On 14/12/2018 at 15:41, NabsKebabs said:

Even rashidi has changed his tactics on youtube series to direct passing and fast balls over the top because possesion stly isnt really enjoyable right now ^^

Erm i play attacking football because i enjoy it more than possession styled systems. My last episode where i have everything to play for i switch to a possession styled 4132 and win. When i choose to play either possession or attacking there is usually a reason why. If i am an underdog i will play more direct cos i can't afford to camp against a better side. If i am a good side I will usually control the game and then hit them with quick direct attacks. I will still enjoy good possession.

On the forums, I see people playing possession football all wrong. Possession is only good if you can open a side up quickly when the chance presents itself. And to do that you need to master how to carve out that space. I have always played football with fast and quick transitions, so much so that i always end up playing games on attacking and overload mentalities. My style has always been the same, i always like entertaining football, I absolutely abhor possession for the sake of it. And all that sideways passing to carve a side open with a through ball through the middle. I much prefer drawing them around and making them vulnerable to 2v1.

[NabsKebabs]

@Rashidi can you please edit your post so I'm not incorrectly quoted as saying that 

And yeah, as I said you haven't changed style at all. I mean on FM18, when you were playing as Kingstonian in the PL you played your last 2 seasons exclusively on overload mentality. You were playing this style when you were a club in the european competitions aswell. So I'm not sure where this idea that you are a tiki taka type of manager is coming from.

[Rashidi]

On 14/12/2018 at 15:49, Fikintiki said:

i have watched his lyon vs roma home match yesterday and im sure it was direct play and his all goals come from fast direct passing or crossing. I'm  not sure what he played against lesser rep teams in his league wins but i think he was trying a 352 libero wb tactic with 2 strikers in that career. So i suggest him to play some direct play because it seems overpowered in current ME.

Like I said so many times stop suggesting that I say direct play is overpowered. It’s just simplistic and shows a lack of understanding of football. 

I played Lyon that way cos they have a chance to play with a Libero and I was setting them up to bear sides like PSG, Man City, who are better. Do you honestly think that in the modern game Lyon will beat them by playing possession based football. Even that term is so outta place I hate using it. Even Pep talks about controlling spaces with numerical advantages and then hitting them open with quick direct movements to take advantage of the spaces.

i have never been a stupid go around win possession kind of manager.  Possession numbers are a by-product of how you create numerical advantages on the pitch, and are NOT the plan from the outset. Possession as a goal is pointless.

[NabsKebabs]

11 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Even that term is so outta place I hate using it. Even Pep talks about controlling spaces with numerical advantages and then hitting them open with quick direct movements to take advantage of the spaces.

Exactly, Pep even said that he hates tiki taka or possession for the sake of it. His game is all about overloading one side of the pitch, then quickly switching it to the space on the other side. This is why if you actually watch City, the vast majority of their goals are scored from cutbacks or crosses. Not through balls as many people assume. 

[Rashidi]

Historically I have never liked going for possession. I like exciting cavalier football. Then people started saying you can’t get high possession on higher mentalities, so I started showing how you can get possession and still play attacking football.

So occasionally I play to disprove.

[mikcheck]

@Rashidi when you say that you like to control games and hit teams with quick direct attacks if you're a good team, what passing style and mentality you'd normally choose for that? Would you go with shorter passing and pass into space TI and direct passing for some of your players with best passing and vision? And maybe positive mentality?

Thanks.

[99]

Possession is one thing, tiki-taka is another. There is just one ball in the pitch and having it is simultaneously the best defense and the best attack. The team with the ball dictates who the hell happens in the game. The team going after the ball can only do that, going after it, run for it, try to get it back. While you have the ball no one can score you a goal, and you are the one who can score goals. It's such a simple logic that I find it hard to understand teams who are strong but deliberately don't want to have the ball and conceed the possession to the opponent (like Mourinho and Simeone teams). If you want to control the game, to say what happens, you NEED the ball.

Tiki-taka can be different. Possession for the sake of, or just move the ball around with very short passes and virtually no risk, without objectively trying to create chances and score goals, that I don't like as well.

As for FM terms, I'm being able to create a beautiful play style with my team controling the game by having the ball, still being objective, score goals, win games. But I'm struggling to make my striker to score. Even my central defenders seem better at it. I've tested with Luis Suarez, Lewandowski and more recently Benzema, both in F9 and PF roles, but none of them plays well or scores enough goals with my tactics. I need to improve it...

[Rashidi]

On ‎17‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 02:30, 99 said:

The team with the ball dictates who the hell happens in the game.

Not entirely true, the team without the ball can also dictate the game, which is the mantra that a lot of top sides chant. You can give the ball away to the opposition and shunt them to areas of the pitch you want them to play in. Force them into cul-de-sacs, they lose the ball and you immediately counter them.  A team is more likely to concede a goal when they are off balance just after they are attacking and lose the ball.