Cesc Fabregas the Phenom Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I agree with Dogs. I don't feel the community is as tight as it should be. There needs to be a feeling of a community rather than some clans just having some banter. Im not too sure if a lot can be done about it. The idea of Online Tournaments is not a bad one. However I feel this takes players away from their clan games, it would need to be organised so that no-one has objections to not playing clan games. Personally I would rather just get on with the clan game and leave the rest to banter. We don't need to know who is THE best, there is more to life. As for this name and shame thingy, it has its pros and cons. It would spoil people having their online fix if they messed up a clan game accidently/with a legitimate reason. However if they are genuinely fools, they need to be taught a lesson. Its a tough one to decipher. I think its all down to personal views by clan members/hosts. I think there should be an unposted blacklist that the mods have. Only dealt with hosts/organisers where persistent offenders should be reprimanded. I also think having 'recognised' clans pages stickied is not good idea. I can forsee many clans just stickied at the top with no movement in the forum. Maybe a list of recognised clans in order of seniority (if there is to be any segregation) is better. Goldy I will pop you an email re: FAQs. I will go away and think of ideas myself as Xmas in the Phenom hoosehold don't exist and I'll be much sober-er Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchampionsfan Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Pat - i'm not sure if you were here when they had the recognised clans at the top of the forum. It was in the forum header with a link to the clan website and topic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesc Fabregas the Phenom Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by exchampionsfan: Pat - i'm not sure if you were here when they had the recognised clans at the top of the forum. It was in the forum header with a link to the clan website and topic <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Probably not. A page or something would be adequate with clans and detailed links IMO. Shortcuts if you like so people don't have to scan for threads if they choose not to bookmark things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelfastNiall Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Deano Yeah there are people like this, but I don’t like yellows/reds, blacklist etc, they aren’t constructive in the slightest, are far too subjective and they give no way back for the user, as they would never get a chance to redeem themselves, as mud generally sticks. This will always happen and no amount of blacklist and cards will stop it. I mean the bloke you mentioned above might just have thought that he didn’t have anything in common with you on a non-cm level, or maybe he just thought you weren’t upto his standard , he should have had the decency to inform you of his decision regarding not playing anymore, thats a given, but what one person thinks is a legitimate reason for some form of punishment, another may not, it is just a big can of worms that once opened, ends up causing problems. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Whether the person has anything in common with me or not on a non-cm related issue is completely irrelevant to common decency as you yourself acknowledge Deano. At the end of the day, I’ve played champ with people who I know I have nothing in common with but champ, or I’m old enough to be their father, (as you would also have experience of I’m sure Deano), but does this mean I treat them with disregard?Not in the slightest and the behaviour I described is all too common on this forum, as you would know if you tried to source players. It shows a basic disregard for the efforts of the host, the time he has put in to source players, plus the benefit to said person of getting him involved in a long term quality game, which is what most of us seek. As for the lack of standard, well I’m sure I remember beating you a few times, on the few occasions we met, although admittedly that could still make me crap . No one is saying a blacklist doesn’t open up a can of worms, and yes mud sticks. However, it is quite simple. All the user has to do is inform the host he is withdrawing from the clan. Not too much to ask anyone really. If you don’t want to be blacklisted, then treat other gamers with the respect you would feel should be afforded to yourself. It’s the only way to be rid of the timewasters, which is CMO’s biggest problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchampionsfan Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BelfastNiall: I’m old enough to be their father<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Can I call you daddy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelfastNiall Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Can I call you daddy? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, that's reserved for my girlfriend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BelfastNiall: as you would know if you tried to source players.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thats patronising, how do you know I haven't just because I don't do it now ? <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BelfastNiall: No one is saying a blacklist doesn’t open up a can of worms, and yes mud sticks. However, it is quite simple. All the user has to do is inform the host he is withdrawing from the clan. Not too much to ask anyone really. If you don’t want to be blacklisted, then treat other gamers with the respect you would feel should be afforded to yourself. It’s the only way to be rid of the timewasters, which is CMO’s biggest problem.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ok, fair point, but how many offences are we talking about you cant blacklist someone for one offence, everyone deserves a second chance at least, but then you get into the problem of who maintains the list of offenders along with other things. Also do people stay on the blacklist forever ? How do they get off it ? <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BelfastNiall: As for the lack of standard, well I’m sure I remember beating you a few times, on the few occasions we met, although admittedly that could still make me crap .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I dont remember that, must be my age , and if you did beat me you must be a CM God Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelfastNiall Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Thats patronising, how do you know I haven't just because I don't do it now ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry I don't agree this is patronising and that wasn't the intention. The fact is that I'm speaking from a host's point of view, so it is relevant and current, and as you don't host anymore it is unlikely that this problem affects you. But it does affect many other users which is supposed to be the point of the discussion. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Ok, fair point, but how many offences are we talking about you cant blacklist someone for one offence, everyone deserves a second chance at least, but then you get into the problem of who maintains the list of offenders along with other things. Also do people stay on the blacklist forever ? How do they get off it ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ok I take your point about this. I'm not denying that proper procedures would need to be put in place to manage it (and I've no time today to try thinking about them.) However, I would think that obviously Dogs should be the one with the power to accept/dismiss blacklist claims. Also I think the power should only be in the hands of those who host, and are known as reliable and committed. Valid reasons need to be provided. I guess a set time limit could be set for the list. It would surely then be up to the blacklisted player to prove he has "turned over a new leaf" by proving committed to a new game. However, the whole idea of a blacklist is supposed to act as a DETERRENT to this sort of behaviour. If people know there is no threat of a response to their behaviour, how then do you propose to deal with this problem Deano? A deterrent has to have teeth <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I dont remember that, must be my age , and if you did beat me you must be a CM God <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just remember to genuflect in my presence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Merry Christmas all you bums! Turkey was nice and juicy and the rest of it slid down well...now on to business!!! CMO in my honest opinion is a shambles! Its far to much a boys club, we need to be a lot more welcoming to newbies. I am one to blame in ways as i see posts and i give the usual random answers like, use the forum header or look in the tech forum or blah blah blah. We should be looking to sold tech problems in the forum. Patty has know how about routers and ports, everyone has the manual and can therefor set up a game (in theory) so can help others set it up if they aint realised its in the manual. Threads need to be left open for people to reply and offer there assistance rather than *use tech forum* closed! Most of those people aint coming back to the forum! The idea of stickying some of the helpful topics is a good one IMO, people see the stickys first thing and might click on them. a F.A.Q is a grand idea. There are new players looking to play online, new to CM new to online, we need to make them comfy WHILE helping them GET a game and helping them keep the rules. How many hosts when needing new members do more than post in there thread? How hard would it be to post in the available players lists, or read the list and find suitable players and email them? I doubt that would be hard. anyway pudding is up will add more of my insane ideas later! HO HO HO (joes mum joes mum joes mum) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Ah back after desert and yum was good, ok i thought the CMO webby was pretty much a waste as it cost and people aint gonna pay to play! not when they can come here post there ip and get away with it and then get a short game going. Some idea's were good on the webby i believe. I like to hear about other people, there intrests etc etc so i found the player profile things a laugh. (interview stuff i mean) What else... i like <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Reading player and clan updates <LI>off topic thread <LI>banter <LI>going in the scots clans IRC room and laughing and trout fighting i dont like <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>people having no disregard for the rules and posting things they shouldnt then doing it again and again without official warning. <LI>people not doing reports because we all know they only take 10 minutes a week! <LI>games starting then the host dropping out and leaving people hanging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 delete this post! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesc Fabregas the Phenom Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I think its important the online FAQ is a good read, by that I mean a little light-hearted. Getting the message across without being pompous. I for one am most certainly interested in what the newer CMOers have to say and their opinions on it all. I think there should be sticky where all the clans are listed and there is some brief details and links to application pages and report threads. Perfect for a new member to have a gander and see if anything tickles their fancy if they don't want to start a clan. It may be a long thread, am just thinking aloud really. I'll whack an example of what I mean after Eastenders. I know we have the website, I just don't feel alot of people really use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Patty I'm working on the FAQ at the moment and as you can see with have a thread for the questions / ideas on the FAQ. This FAQ is going to fantastic and will be a benefit to both new and old users Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambie\'s Lovechild Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patty the Phenom: Im not too sure if a lot can be done about it. The idea of Online Tournaments is not a bad one. However I feel this takes players away from their clan games, it would need to be organised so that no-one has objections to not playing clan games. Personally I would rather just get on with the clan game and leave the rest to banter. We don't need to know who is THE best, there is more to life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thing is Patty, all clan games reach a point where someone is so far out in front that theyre declared the winner. For us, Dogs was doing it every game, going through Europe like a knife through butter while some of us struggled to beat Stenhousemuir at home. The games should be run from SI Towers on a one off , one night session. Not something on a longer term. If the server is stable, and you have 10 guys from 10 clans with teams theyve never seen before but which are equal in every sense of the word, and you give them , say , 2 nights over a weekend , for 4 hours a session , to fight it out to see whos the best of the best, or even just to get to know each other, itd benefit the community. Hell , just for effect, change the concept so each clan nominates a member, not specifically the "Winner" of their clan game. This would mean that if SI runs something like this say , every quarter , then every quarter 10 guys who have never spoken before spend an evening talking bollocks at each other and getting to know other CMO'ers. Theory : If you had 8 players , put them in 8 Champions League groups , and had them play the SI to get through to a last 16 knockout, youd have banter by the bucketload. Imagine the humiliation of being put out by a crap AI side in your group. Imagine the reputation that would be created taking Admira Wacker through the group stages into the CL final. I think its workable. Only question is would someone from SI take up the concept and fiddle with it to make it workable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesc Fabregas the Phenom Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I was talking about that example a clan Shortcut type thing. Its only an idea so feel free to completely flame me Have a list of all clans that have met a requirement. Like they have been going on consistently for a few weeks or something. Put them in alphabetical order. Clan Name:- EMA Host/Organiser:- Paul Bray Contact Details: (typically in profile is the answer) What leagues are played and run:- Update Thread: - Linkage Application Thread:- Linkage. Note to check if clan is recruiting Clan created:- X years When times is the game played:- Website (if any):- linkage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesc Fabregas the Phenom Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I know what your getting at Lambie mate. Im just not a fan of the idea in general. Im part of Bray's EMA tourny and despite the fun that brings I really miss the clan game. You can't ask people to leave their clan games and you can't ask clans to stop so this can take place. Then there is the issue of timings, you mentioned weekends. For most that is a no-no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogs Posted December 25, 2003 Author Share Posted December 25, 2003 patty's and goldys idea about the rec clans is a good one. my branch off from this would be to have the rec clans in the official forum header and every month do a spotlight on a different rec clan. As a stickie. "this month we look at the EFB clan etc etc" a small biography of the clan and players followed by an interview of the host. this would change on a monthly basis on a rotation cycle. Alot of the times before, i looked at the various rec clans in the forum header and wondered how they formed and their various motives for playing. I think it would give the community a insight on how the successful long term clans were formed etc. Something else for you guys to ponder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogs Posted December 25, 2003 Author Share Posted December 25, 2003 Also i want the criteria to become officially recognised to be a bit more harder. I felt before that this wasnt policed well by Fox and myself, we were handing out the space in the official forum header willy nilly. I want the clan games to strive to better themselves and when they achieve the status be proud of it and upkeep the standard. I would give the off clans and members official titles. Ie CMO EFB clan, or CMO Scots clan something that they could be proud of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchampionsfan Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 I think the criteria should be 1 month since the first post in the update thread OR 4 seasons in the game. The updates in the thread have to be up to a certain standard (you may say that this is subjective but the standard doesn't have to be that high, just make sure that the updates are detailed enough etc.) I also think that the clans that are at the top of the forum need to be monitored by the mods. If when the clan's become recognised, they started posting 1 update a month etc. then it should be taken off the list. The other thing that annoyed me was that at the beginning of this year when we had them at the top, many clans had stopped but were still shown at the top of the forum. This is one of the reasons I think they need monitoring (by dogs, marlow, Paul Bray, or Goldy) so that if they stop they'll be taken of the forum header. An idea would be to have one of marlow, Paul Bray and Goldy monitoring each 'recognised clan'. All this would mean is that they would read the clan thread and follow the clan. When the clan completes the non-subjective criteria (1 month or whattever), they can ask the clan monitor to be recognised. The clan monitor should then go into the game if their claiming to have completed 4 seasons and decide whether they're good enough. They should then post in the thread as to why they will or won't be recognised. If the members of the clan feel that this is seriously unfair, they can go to dogs and speak to him about it. If dogs agrees then he can overrule. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchampionsfan Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr X: Also i want the criteria to become officially recognised to be a bit more harder. I felt before that this wasnt policed well by Fox and myself, we were handing out the space in the official forum header willy nilly. I want the clan games to strive to better themselves and when they achieve the status be proud of it and upkeep the standard. I would give the off clans and members official titles. Ie CMO EFB clan, or CMO Scots clan something that they could be proud of.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Would the names be optional as I'm not sure I would want that in my profile if/when I join a clan. Putting it in the from is fine imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogs Posted December 26, 2003 Author Share Posted December 26, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by exchampionsfan: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr X: Also i want the criteria to become officially recognised to be a bit more harder. I felt before that this wasnt policed well by Fox and myself, we were handing out the space in the official forum header willy nilly. I want the clan games to strive to better themselves and when they achieve the status be proud of it and upkeep the standard. I would give the off clans and members official titles. Ie CMO EFB clan, or CMO Scots clan something that they could be proud of.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Would the names be optional as I'm not sure I would want that in my profile if/when I join a clan. Putting it in the from is fine imo <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> everything mentioned in this thread is basically a suggestion for how the forum should move forward. Not everything will be implemented. In january i will sit down and try to piece together what i believe to be the most feasible and then present a template back to this community. If everyone then likes it, we will move to the next stage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Hey all... I have to say that many things have changed since I was last here.... Some things for the better and some things for the worse.... Its good to see that most of the people read the rules now a days and thats probaply because we have some good mods to hunt them down if they dont... I have to say that I am sad to see David go as I have had some good games with him in UCMIG.... Wish you the very best of luck... I think some of the things that could change for the better is that we need to continue developing CMO with maybe some monthly contests where every clan decides a player of the month and the winners of each clan is then comepting in a new vote where every member of a clan is voting for the monthly winner.... And you cant vote for a member of your own clan.... And last but not least... What CMO is really in need of is me joining a new clan to show you the art of managing Glad to be back Crazy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 What happened to your old account Crazy ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 I got a temp ban and decided to quit but now Im back for good and willing to kick some ass Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 so, that makes you an alias.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Isnt Alias only for people who are banned? I was temp banned for 6 month from the 1st of June so I would have become unbanned at the start of december.... Or cant I do that or what? I am sorry if this is the case but if I am not allowed here feel free to delete my account Crazy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 I would like to see the re-apparnce of the clan list at the top of the page, and a chat, preferably a java room to make it easier. I like the idea of focusing on a clan each week or month. There should also be a tougher stance on thosee people who post "Wanna Game" or "CM Online now" threads. A nic idea would be a CMO hall of fame, it could contain the most respected players and clans, even threads, thats all I can say now, more thoughts needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 on't worry about it Crazy, you should've just used your old account once it became unbanned, that's all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastwood Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 What's happening with UCMIG dogs? Is it carrying on? The threads still closed atm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Eastwood : I think it may be best to msn him or email him. Welcome back Crazy, wondered what happened to you...now I know From looking at the info, a lot of people want similar stuff which is good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 How about some sort of image that could be put into a thread when it's made official? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marlow: How about some sort of image that could be put into a thread when it's made official?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Maybe like a recongised clan sign, similar to the ones you get on recongised sites? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Yeah, what I was thinking.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCFCKEV Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Hey old freinds im kind of stuck! How can i download the patch? on si it does not work or thwe dugout. Anywhere else, if you cant say here speak to me via MSN Messenger (In profile). I would be most greatfull, Cheers, Kev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogs Posted December 27, 2003 Author Share Posted December 27, 2003 listen lads this is a brainstorm thread keep any request out, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Van Nistelrooy Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Now that the dust has settled in what has been a hectic few days in the CMO forum's history. I have now taken stock on the recent contentions and can objectively reflect, on what has happened in the last few days, and years in this community. Anyone that knows me well, knows I am a committed champer, and knows I have always been positive and constructive, about the projects I am involved with, the new championship manager series and the community as a whole. Negative provocation is not my style, but as a long serving and respected member of this community, I feel it is now time to break the habit of a life time, and tell a few home truths, and set the record straight on a few 'matters' for the benefit of the gullible and naive within our community. A lot of people are asking me, what I think of this, and that, and usually I just say “go and make your own mind up" but for the 1st time I am going public on what I really think. The Scottish Clan and myself have done more than most, for our community over the years, and it is due to this personal time, that has been invested, along with some views of other respected regulars both past and present, that has provoked this post. Some people might not want to hear what I am about to say, but its time for everyone to put their cards on the table, so here’s my deck for what its worth........ Firstly we must remember that this is just a forum and only a computer game, too many people loose sight of this, and I can honestly say I have never lost it at anytime ever, with regards to playing champo on-line. I do respect everyone is different in terms of personality, style and motives for posting on these boards, it is theses different ingredients that make the CMO soup so interesting. I see the forum differently from most, for me it is a creative canvas, an imaginative vehicle to construct communities and lay down foundations for long-term on-line projects. All sorts of ‘banter’ ‘Bragging’ and ‘slaggings ‘ should be openly encouraged to develop healthy rivalries. Anyone who cant take a joke or takes themselves too seriously will never fully understand the community Spirit. I don’t feel I need to 'bam up' the Scottish Clan as were the original 'Clan' and that is up to others to judge. I am very pleased in the way we have evolved and developed over the past few years. This has taken time to construct believe me, but it is great, now rival Clans like E.M.A & E.F.B have emerged, and like us are driving things forward. I look out to forum land and I see a lot of talent and potential just waiting for a chance to develop, and it is these young Clans and hosts that are the future of CM on-line as we know it. Everything must be done, that possibly can, to develop these new games and encourage their communities to blossom and integrate into the wider CMO scene. Most the forum members 'flame' new guys who don’t know the rules. I don’t see the point of this; I see them as new opportunity and possible traffic. It saddens me when we loose so many potential on-line gaffers through this. I fully appreciate we need strict forum rules but education is the key here, and there are a few dedicated champers who are helpful and help the noobs. These helpful people are the forgotten unsung hero’s of our forum in my opinion and have always been an after thought. The Blacklist idea has been discussed before, and personally I am not for it. Every one can make mistakes when they are young or inexperienced. Also it is hard to find the truth with regards games that go 'tits' up due to an individual's actions. The onus should be more on the host to organize better and vet potential human players before hand. The Scottish Clan does it, it is very rare we take a chance on a total noob but everyone has to start somewhere we were all noobs once. Guys who fail in the on-line scene whether getting beat or through fall outs are just community causality, and should be helped and retained within the community, not shunned away. In certain causes guilty or reckless human managers who have deliberately harmed a credible on-line game should get a warning or card to warn other prospective Clans or hosts that he has previous. The bottom line is think more about who you are playing with, don’t just rush in with unknown strangers. At the end of the day is the hosts responsibility so check new guys before u start, and help those who have probs, don’t drive them away! Also there should be more to enhance and advertise the community both out with and within the forum walls. I have no idea about some of the forums new games, who is playing, and who manages what. Some sort of host update or interview on a thread that can be accessed by all, would be a start in bridging the gap between rival Clans, and games that just never come to fruition in the forum. The "elite ' Clan game is a possibility but where would u find the time? I don't agree with this 'I’m the bestest attitude' as I will explain later, but perhaps if Clans were established, their top player or two could represent the Clan like an international against some other Clans gaffers perhaps in the later half of this year once the 03/04 revolution settles. Also all on-line games within the community should be brought into this forum. We do not want to turn out like other 'Kleeky' forums within the overall CM community we are all Champo fans at heart and this would help promote the overall scene. Also that on-line website that was forced upon the community, what does it actually do? I have never actually given it much thought as our own games have been going well and we have never had to recruit. What I will say is I have never been asked or invited to contribute or help in any way so can someone explain what benefit it has had to the community? New forums and webby's within the CM scene spring up all the time! The last time we had a kleeky forum within a forum it was back in 2000 when the UCMING thread was made 'Secret', hoovering up all the gullible and naive talent from our community, and ostracizing what was then the other games and effectively turning our forum into a morgue. The scots Clan were the exception to this as they were the only net game going that used the forum and this whole selfish act nearly killed the forum once and for all. Yes they were going to close the on-line forum, it came that close and who were the ones who stood up for the regulars and got banned? Does not take a genius to work that out! So a couple of years later we know have deja vu and another kleeky forum set up by the same person is forced on our community causing the same divisions taking traffic away, and scaring potential new traffic from starting on-line games. I accept this view may be a bit harsh as the concept in its self is ok, but not making it in-house and free for all the masses was another bad judgment and missed opportunity which has damaged the forum yet again. Setting up games and finding new traffic for the forum is the single most important thing as is getting the old disillusioned regulars back . Bringing back in-house, or starting some really quality managed thread to encourage long-term game development within the 'free' forum structure is surely the only option. The latest article on our forum in the CM magazine September 2003 kind of summed up the general feeling towards such a website for the regulars within the forum. Instead of highlighting the thriving community and the numerous dedicated individuals and games in this forum over the years, the whole article was an advert for this website. This is another example of another missed opportunity both to win some friends within the community and ignoring the real factors in getting started in on-line play. The bottom line is Clans should be responsible for their own websites and more help offered to those that are new or struggling to get one off the ground. Whether it is by some web space or assistance in basic web design. A Clan webby can give a net game a real identity and 'home' and should be placed at the very top of the forum free for all to see. That was in my opinion the only good thing the last regime did for the forum. Another issue which is very close to my heart is the actual development of the community and Clans. It is not rocket science, it takes a long time to find dedicated, like mind individuals whom you can trust to remain committed in a long-term net game. The Scottish Clan as an example are very lucky, they have been going for years and have a healthy following and waiting list of prospective human players eager to kick our jock asses. For us it works well on a local level. I know most the Scottish CM'rs on these boards and we are small nation and have such a national identity and culture which we play on. It takes patience and time to source the players, the whole CM 0n-line game can juts be picked up and organized instantly, planning and preparation are the key and the experienced hosts know this is critical. Not enough thought goes into finding the right blend for on-line games and I accept it is difficult for noobs to get established as most long running Clans are full to capacity and there has been no real help offered in the last few years to help noob's get started. It is very important that players keep their profile pages up to date and make contact either on msn, by e-mail or in the forum advertising a future game or inquiring about their availability and commitment to any new game. Too many people are coming to the forum starting games and disappearing. More effort has to be made in gaming threads to report objectively what is going on within that game's environment so that the rest of the forum have a clue what is going on. Very few Clans or games ever achieve this. The only way to rectify this is for people to post more and take pride in their teams/Clan within the forum. You can’t make guys post and anyone that never does, must really question why they play on-line and are wanting to be involved in a community. People are just lazy or 'glory hunters', its human nature, but if a human manager cannot be bothered writing and articulate e-mail or posting something constructive, then why waste so much time on-line playing CM with them. Another issue that bother's me is all this we are the 'bestest' p¡sh. taking an elitist point of view only fuels the glory hunting mentality that has crept within out forum. Over all the years I have been in the forum there are very few real expert players who have pushed the boundaries of on-line play. Everyone thinks they are magic at CM tanking the Ai every week but playing a human every game is a real wake up call. I accept rivalry is fantastic but the 'win or nothing' mentality is wrong as no one can win every game and on their day any human can beat another. How can u judge this any way? How do you referee this any way? Every net game is unique and starts totally different to another. Some start at llm level and some in a premier league, but what i will say as the good players always come through in the end, and the really good ones are the ones that are committed and put the time in and contribute to our community. The Scots Clan don’t think they are better than anyone else, that’s for others too judge! For the record I must say that in no way personally am I interested in modding this forum, I just want a fun netgame and laugh with some like minded people. In my opinion the modding in the CMO has been non existent in the last few years, which has been very disappointing. In many ways this has been a good thing as the community and Clans have tended to police themselves. The downside of all this neglect has culminated in the total lack of leadership within the community and as a result many of the old regulars became disillusioned and are now lost to the forum. This mismanagement has also quelled the forum's growth, evidence of this is the lack of new traffic within the forum over the last year, and lack of credible Clans within the community, despite the launch of the CM4 series. From a selfish point of view we have been lucky with the Scottish game, but I have truly tried to make a difference behind the scenes, and inspire some others to get started. However this is not my responsibility, especially when other elusive so called 'trailblazers' have done nothing. The other major factor is why does our forum have helpers? I accept that a few of the lads have made a difference and contributed greatly to the development of the forum. No other busier forums have helpers! If our mods were present and active could they not deal with any issues? I used to help out , this is true, but I quit! and the reason was that the main mod contributed nothing, yet accepted all the credit. The old regulars know the truth though, even if I was taken for a right mug! I might not have said as much at the time to save any embarrassment for the aforesaid vain person, but at least i did my bit when the forum needed it!. I fully Support Dogs aka Mr. X and have a healthy respect for his modding capabilities and he is well equipped in bother communication and team working skills and really cares about the world of 0n-line play and the community's interests first. He as also been vocal and visible and very approachable, since his appointment commanding the respect from most the regulars. I am open minded about the helpers but it is critical we get another strong character who can help drive things forward. Perhaps another Mod from another forum or someone within the current community. One thing is for sure, any new mod must have an understanding of the on-line scene and be an 'experienced host' or 'creative mind’, willing to put the time in and 'determined' that they work with the existing guys as a team, and can deliver the community the long-term games they so desperately crave. No man is bigger than the community. It is teamwork, dedication and commitment that will drive the forum forward. Lastly I have to say a few words about why all these changes are happening and should be taking place. I know in the eyes of many, that it may appear at 1st to be a radical over throw in terms of who is leading the forum, but I am like many, not surprised, considering that the forum has not fulfilled it's potential in this CM4 dawn. I too am guilty at times of idly standing buy with the knowledge that I am involved in some quality CM games, but making a scene or bad mouthing has never been my style, so I hope this post has been constructive. I feel I have the right to express my views above as I have been around the scene longer than most and have done my bit both recently and in the past. This has been coming a while and could have been handled better. The attitude from the recently departed mod only compels the thoughts of most mature individuals, and comes as no surprise. I can understand quitting the scene after so much time, whether be it for family reasons or work commitments, but for the apparent connection problems when CM4 is only NOW a game that can be truly called a multiplayer experience fit to be played over the net, is quite astonishing and disrespectful to the community that he has been responsible for overseeing, and the developers who have delegated this responsibility. The so very public fallout that’s has been conveniently deleted from the UCMING thread, calling a mod a 'nob' was just another example of the 'childish behavior’ that our departed mod has displayed. Every game that he ever played resulted in some sort of embarrassing tantrum and departure, that a respected member and so called leader of our community should have been above. Quitting the on-line scene in such an immature fashion is a huge slap in the face to the developers who have worked so hard making the CM network experience the most enjoyable and stable yet, a slap to the small band of dedicated players he was involved with, who gave up so much of their time over the last years weekends and above all the gullible and naive, within the community, who actually believed in him and voted in the recent CMO awards. I am honestly sad he is gone, or anybody for that matter, and accept that any reconciliation for the sake of the forum is now very distant, It takes a brave man to returns to fight another day, admit he was wrong, and is honest to his fellow peers. I remain bullish however and have a fair idea how things will evolve in the next few years and feel the CMO forum will be an integral part of the development of Computer Managements games on-line. I along with the champers I am involved with, will make a promise to deliver some real quality long-term games to the community and help some other's get off the ground. There is a new optimism with the release of the latest and final installment of the CM series, this is not the time for quitting! This is the time to drive things forward and get back to playing CM, and reporting all the drama in the forum! This will benefit the whole community for every one and make the CMO a better place, so come on lets make it happen! P.s Sorry for rambling on so much ...this post is dedicated to the regulars both past and present. Gone but not forgotten.. Hardcore u know the Score! Turps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 sweet Jesus Turps. good stuff. Shall read it in a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 well, after finishing that's a great article Turps. You've put some great points accross there and I must say I agree with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Yep some very good points brought across Turps and a lot i agree with myself and there are lots of things that we as a community can make a start on and build for the future of the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coisty Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 LOL Turps, thats one hell of a post. Some good points there. I would like the CMO to become more of a close community. Was filling out my form for the yearly awards and realised I only realy know folk in my own clan and Powley who is every where. It would be good to get to know more hardcore CMO'rs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbhoy Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 A wee simple idea for people to think about. How about rounding up 7 people who are willing to host a 7 separate long term online game 1 night each for set times this instantly creates 7 new 'clans'. This would be like a spawning ground where anybody new and interested in playing online can test the water with an organised game hosted by an experienced host Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 The idea does sound good Jim however what will come up is these 7 people are probably already involved in net games and its going to be difficult for anyone, especially an experienced host to find the time to host another additional game with his own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambie\'s Lovechild Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Roscos obviously spent all night writing that post. Must have been nothing on the Playboy Channel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogs Posted December 27, 2003 Author Share Posted December 27, 2003 I must admit i agree also with the majority of the above post. It's a very thought provoking and well put together piece. You are right when you say that I am 100% behind the positive development of the CMO forum. I will endeavour work with everyone to transform this forum into what it should be, one of the most prominent communities on the SI webby. Don't forget that the future of all games, not just CM 03/04 is mutliplayer, the very strong rumour is that the next installment of the CM series or Si series will be based on the mutliplayer format. We want this forum to rock simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 100% of the people who post on this forum whether they are applying to join a clan or attempting to setup one of their own, love Champman. When they first hear about online champo, they get all fevered up and want to give it a try. However, the main problem is that they often come from the land of the single player, this generally leads to unrealistic expectations that playing CM online is just the same as single player but against other humans, and this is just not the case. This is the fundamental reason why we have so many clans that last only a few sessions and why we have people who join a clan for one session and then never return. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jimbhoy: A wee simple idea for people to think about. How about rounding up 7 people who are willing to host a 7 separate long term online game 1 night each for set times this instantly creates 7 new 'clans'. This would be like a spawning ground where anybody new and interested in playing online can test the water with an organised game hosted by an experienced host<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I’d like to expand on Jim’s idea a bit, and make it into something slightly different. Education is the key to taking this community to the next level, we somehow have to manage the expectations of new users and give them a guiding hand in finding out what playing champo online is all about. So let me explain the concept of ….. Drop-in Games Basically these are test games that will run say Monday – Friday. They are not long term games in their first evolution, they are simply games where people can drop into the mirc channel on that particular night join a game and test the water. Now this will take a fair bit of organising, but it was the only way I could think of that will help to educate the new visitors to the community, rules, faq’s etc all have their place and will be useful to some people, but many people will never read them no matter how much you ram them down their throats. Allowing people to dive right in is often the only way to get and keep them interested, I mean how many people have actually read cover to cover the manual that comes with CM, I know I haven’t, but we expect people to read all the rules and regulations and faq's that go with this forum, it just isn’t realistic. In my everyday life as a Manager of a Technical team, I can send people on numerous training courses, but they never begin to add value until they are given the chance to apply that knowledge in a real environment, to me this is no different to the problems that CMO faces, people need education to get them started, it is just a case for the experienced guys to show them the way and show them the ropes. In the end some of these games may go onto to produce/spawn clans of their own, but at the very least they will have given the people playing an insight into online play. And before anyone asks, yes I would personally host a test game, one evening a week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sav112 Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 The creativeness and banter is there in buckets in the Scots clan in my opinion. I can’t comment on the other clans but I do realise the effort the guy’s in the clan I’m with put in and appreciate it enormously. Playing in this clan has been an education in it’s self with regards to learning how to really get the most out of a game I’ve always enjoyed. To play CM online with so many human players was a real eye-opener and I’m always advertising the fact in some of my posts out with the clan that playing online is were the best experience is to be had. I was a complete newbie to CM clan games and even though I’ve not represented the Clan always in the best light the lads have been brilliant and understanding to the point I’m proud of the Clan in which I play. I was always disappointed at the recognition these clans got on the forum ; it’s definitely the way forward for the game and the community. Some of the work that goes into the web sites and the setting up these clans is remarkable. Anything that leads single players to get interested in clan games can only benefit the community. With regards to the drop in games, I think anyone setting up a clan would benefit from a stint in a recognised Clan for a few sessions just to get a feel for it and pick up hints and tips off the Host and realise the problems involved when running a clan game or there should be a help thread with the hosts of the recognised Clan games promoted to mod the pages and give advice if they wanted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesc Fabregas the Phenom Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr X: We want this forum to rock simple.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Best thing I have heard lately. Turps, that read like a heartfelt post. Some very good points fella. You have said many things I didn't even know I was thinking or was ever too scared to say to be honest. Im glad Dogs is taking this by the scruff of its neck. Lets hope we can all make this a significantly better place. Im happy to use myself as a n00b example. I was a huge n00b when I got here. Im forever grateful to Paul for giving me a chance in the EMA. He has taken my enjoyment of the game to a whole new level. Understanding and good control are key elements to make a unique forum like this a success. Most importantly like Deano said is Education. You just have to hope new members are willing to learn a little if not alot. If someone is willing to give Drop-in games a go like Deano has said then I think its an idea that could be tried at the very least. No harm can be done IMO. The key being having dedicated people organising it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by coisty: Was filling out my form for the yearly awards and realised I only realy know folk in my own clan and Powley who is every where. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> powlEy would be my twin brother right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Powlay: _powlEy_ would be my twin brother right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> oh, please god, dont let there be another Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Deano: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Powlay: _powlEy_ would be my twin brother right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> oh, please god, dont let there be another <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> i have been called god a few times, and i thank you for your worship of me...keep the faith and no...im the one and only dominaor...dominator... sorry listened to crappy 90's tunes on way home today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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