jjtile Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Four matches to start the season (FM2015) as Sunderland - four defeats (including losing a 3-0 lead, going down 5-3 to a lower league team in the cup) Counter, Very Fluid Only TI is "work ball into the box" after noticing a lot of missed long shots in pre-season. Happy to upload pkms if that's useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 How are you losing the matches? What sort of goals are you giving up? What mentality are you on etc. etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 By no means an expert but my own thinking would be the Deep Lying Forward and two Inside Forwards are occupying similar space and perhaps they're just too close together? Secondly, as you're leaking a lot of goals, see how it goes if you you change your DM to an Anchor and if you're still not happy, look at but the RB on support just to try and shore things up for a bit before confidence goes too low, which in my experience makes things doubly difficult. Let us know how you get on. Also probably worth telling us what team you are and posting some heat maps. What're your shots and possession stats like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjtile Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 How are you losing the matches? What sort of goals are you giving up? What mentality are you on etc. etc. Counter, Very Fluid (should have included this before and will add to the post above now) Goals are quite a mix. Going to upload them to Vimeo now and add a link above so everyone can see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Who are you playing as? You are using Counter + Very Fluid with just the one TI (work ball into box), what style of football are you looking to achieve? Do you have the right type of players for a Very Fluid philosophy? Your wings may be imbalanced as well - 2 attacking players down the right, 2 supporting down the left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjtile Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 By no means an expert but my own thinking would be the Deep Lying Forward and two Inside Forwards are occupying similar space and perhaps they're just too close together?Secondly, as you're leaking a lot of goals, see how it goes if you you change your DM to an Anchor and if you're still not happy, look at but the RB on support just to try and shore things up for a bit before confidence goes too low, which in my experience makes things doubly difficult. Let us know how you get on. Also probably worth telling us what team you are and posting some heat maps. What're your shots and possession stats like? Don't think they're occupying the same space really. Originally had the AML as a winger but he was often quite isolated - and had a cut inside/shot PPM so decided just to go with him as an IF. On the other other side (AMR), Johnson just seemed to good an IF to not play as that. Interesting about the Anchor. Have never really understood the real difference between DM(d) and Anchor man. Playing as Sunderland (should have added that in the first place and have added that into the post now) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjtile Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Who are you playing as? You are using Counter + Very Fluid with just the one TI (work ball into box), what style of football are you looking to achieve? Do you have the right type of players for a Very Fluid philosophy? Your wings may be imbalanced as well - 2 attacking players down the right, 2 supporting down the left. Playing as Sunderland - one of the poorer teams in the Premier League - I was expecting to spend a lot of time defending. That's why I chose Counter - hoping to burst forward in between periods of pressure. I've never heard of there being a "right type of player" for a very fluid philosophy. It's just about mentality distribution relative to the match strategy isn't it? Could you elaborate? Take your point about the imbalance. That said, the first two games, the DL was the one on attack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyOn Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I've never heard of there being a "right type of player" for a very fluid philosophy. It's just about mentality distribution relative to the match strategy isn't it? Could you elaborate? In addition to every player having the same mentality, very fluid philosophies give all players a high level of creative freedom. It's a style that requires well-rounded, intelligent players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjtile Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 In addition to every player having the same mentality, very fluid philosophies give all players a high level of creative freedom. It's a style that requires well-rounded, intelligent players. I see. Still struggling with mentality and fluidity to be honest. Have started another thread to try to get my head around it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I've never heard of there being a "right type of player" for a very fluid philosophy. It's just about mentality distribution relative to the match strategy isn't it? Could you elaborate? Sorry, I should have elaborated in my post . Generally speaking (there are no hard and fast rules !) teams playing with a very fluid structure require players with great technical and mental attributes such as Decisions, Off the Ball, Anticipation, Concentration, Positioning. This is because as you become less structured (ie., Very Rigid through to Very Fluid) your players will start to play with more creative freedom resulting in more flow and dynamism within your tactic. It therefore becomes less important to assign dedicated (specialist) roles to individual players (such as a "playmaker" or a "Poacher") as players can be given more generalised (universal) roles (such as central midfielder support or complete forward). In this scenario, your CMsupport will play as a playmaker when required, or as a BWM or an attacking midfielder or even as a centre forward, when they feel the time is right to do so. In a way, you have less tactical control and rely more on your players to make the right decisions. Therefore, in a Very Fluid system that doesn't have players with the type of attributes mentioned, attacking and defending may become less effective. Your central midfielder with low mental attributes will get caught in no mans land thinking "erm, is now the right time for me to be helping out with defence or attack", during which time the ball has gone past them and they don't do anything. I exaggerate a little but you get the idea. Because of this, it can be argued that Very Fluid systems are best played with only the top teams in a division as only the top teams have players with suitable attributes. Note - I mentioned there are no hard and fast rules. These are merely guidelines - it is possible to create Very Fluid tactics for lower rep teams, it just becomes a bit more difficult to achieve (my personal opinion, I'm sure others could say otherwise !) Hope that helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomadeira08 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I am just putting in a small bit of what the problem might be. Do have a nose back at your games and see where you are conceding your goals. Take a look at your wings. Do you keep getting caught on the right hand wing, with your IF attacking and vacating the wing in order to go into the middle and the full back looking to get forward I am guessing you are leaving a lot of space on that wing and potentially causing problems in terms of ball control and giving width and support for the midfield. Is that allowing your DLP to be outnumbered and mobbed and making him ineffective? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjtile Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 I am just putting in a small bit of what the problem might be. Do have a nose back at your games and see where you are conceding your goals.Take a look at your wings. Do you keep getting caught on the right hand wing, with your IF attacking and vacating the wing in order to go into the middle and the full back looking to get forward I am guessing you are leaving a lot of space on that wing and potentially causing problems in terms of ball control and giving width and support for the midfield. Is that allowing your DLP to be outnumbered and mobbed and making him ineffective? I do concede quite a few goals that start out on the wings - not just the right wing. Not sure what I can do about this without having both FBs on support (which I'm led to believe isn't a good idea). Have tried setting OIs to closing down and hard tackling the opposition attacking wide players which helped *a bit* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomadeira08 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I do concede quite a few goals that start out on the wings - not just the right wing. Not sure what I can do about this without having both FBs on support (which I'm led to believe isn't a good idea). Have tried setting OIs to closing down and hard tackling the opposition attacking wide players which helped *a bit* I think my first thing to experiment would be to swap round the partnerships for the wide forwards and the full backs and maybe have FB(A), IF(S) on one wing and then FB(s), IF(a) on the other. That might help with that a little. If your players allow it, maybe having a DC(s) on the side with the attacking full back might negate the isolation the full backs might receive because of the IF's moving inside. Hopefully the DMC will then sit inside to help with the space the stopper creates when he is drawn out. I am only just getting back into FM from a 2 year absence so this so this is all theory from my understanding of the game so a word of caution on my advice, but it is hopefully useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjtile Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 So - it's not going well. Another four defeats. Now nine games into the season with nine defeats Changes made from advice above: - AML became a winger to stop congestion up front - AMR(a) now has RB(s) behind him & AML(s) now has LB(s) behind him - DM(d) became Anchorman(d) - Upon learning a bit about fluidity, I decided that my players were probably not up to "Very Fluid" and switched to "Very Structured" Any advice on what to do next as I suspect my days are numbered in this job! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner475 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Can you post your team instructions please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyro Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Looking at the morale, I would probably schedule a friendly or several (if you can) to up their morale a bit. Also, looking at the opposition, Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal - tough games. It seems West Brom was closer. You need to look at when you're conceding and how your players are playing and see if you can spot things you can change. I can only see the scorelines but except from Liverpool and Arsenal, the games were close? Your fluidity went down a bit due to the changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansongs Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I've never considered a mid-season friendly when I go into a slump before. Might be a good idea in a season without mid-week/euro football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.