4-2-3-1 with Arsenal. Trying to get the best out of Ramsey and Giroud

[JOSEPH!]

You only need to look at Bayern Munich this year to see what winning the title with plenty of time spare does for the psychological side of the game.

You can most definitely see your results from each system - I can't remember how to get there at the minute as I don't have access to FM but you definitely can.

The reason why you're left open in the 4231 Denmark is because your be more expressive TI couple with a CM(a) is suicide for defensive contribution - especially with control set. I'd bet you score plenty and have decent movement in the final third but you need to be more restrained. Try a support role - your front four's roles/duties will provide plenty of movement so you probably don't need a runner from deep.

Try setting a more defensive CM partnership and have Aurier on WB(s) to give you a fall back option if moves break down. Knock 'control' down to standard/counter and you'll get much more defensively from your players. I think llama has said this already but have you tried Giroud on CF(s)?

[SJ234]

I have had similar issues with away games. The home team is too overpowered in this game I find. It leads to ridiculous results. However I think this is exacerbated by the games use of the 4-2-3-1 denmark and players use of that and other formations which aren't the most defensively sound.

[JOSEPH!]

I have had similar issues with away games. The home team is too overpowered in this game I find. It leads to ridiculous results. However I think this is exacerbated by the games use of the 4-2-3-1 denmark and players use of that and other formations which aren't the most defensively sound.

The prevalence of the 4231 Denmark is under review - as far as I know - for FM15. It definitely has its place but certainly shouldn't be as common - the issue here is that although teams may line up in that formation in real life, to accurately reflect how those teams then operate in FM requires different positioning. Ribery may, on the TV graphic, be an AML but the tracking back he does means that to accurately reflect that in FM he needs to be set to ML. Anyway, off topic and has been talked to death about in previous threads - sorry!

I haven't noticed such an imbalance at home/away if I'm honest - it all seems fairly in line. Any screen shots to demonstrate what you're talking about?

[SJ234]

The prevalence of the 4231 Denmark is under review - as far as I know - for FM15. It definitely has its place but certainly shouldn't be as common - the issue here is that although teams may line up in that formation in real life, to accurately reflect how those teams then operate in FM requires different positioning. Ribery may, on the TV graphic, be an AML but the tracking back he does means that to accurately reflect that in FM he needs to be set to ML. Anyway, off topic and has been talked to death about in previous threads - sorry!

I haven't noticed such an imbalance at home/away if I'm honest - it all seems fairly in line. Any screen shots to demonstrate what you're talking about?

I think the screenshots are here to see in the thread. Too often there are ridiculous scores which as a I said is exacerbated by the use of certain formations however in my main game I share jointly with someone else we both play the same formation 4-1-2-2-1 and my team is slightly better. Yet the home team is always too advantaged in the big games it feels like as the away team can frequently struggle to get much of a foothold in the game

[RTHerringbone]

A fact of football in general terms is that teams do better at home than they do away.

In Football Manager, there is no in-game weighting to increase the likelihood of the home side winning, nor any notion of artificial "betterness".

However, who is playing where may influence their tactical "vigour" - how assertively they play - but even that will be contextual relative to the form and reputation of the competing sides. It is possible, therefore, that people observing a tangibly different level of performance from their teams away from home, are making no, or inappropriate changes to their own match day strategy.

[ajw10]

Yeah agreed SJ234. I'm under no illusion that my main tactic isn't really suitable for big away games, but tbh, it really shouldn't be suitable for big home games either. The difference between playing home and playing away is much smaller irl than it appears on FM.

This has been a problem for years imo.

[SJ234]

A fact of football in general terms is that teams do better at home than they do away.

In Football Manager, there is no in-game weighting to increase the likelihood of the home side winning, nor any notion of artificial "betterness".

However, who is playing where may influence their tactical "vigour" - how assertively they play - but even that will be contextual relative to the form and reputation of the competing sides. It is possible, therefore, that people observing a tangibly different level of performance from their teams away from home, are making no, or inappropriate changes to their own match day strategy.

Indeed they do. That there isn't, not that I believed there was, doesn't change there is a potential issue. The problem is that when it goes wrong in these games it goes too far wrong. I shouldn't be able to feel disappointed when I play the big teams at home when I don't give them a real beating. There is a balance issue.

[ajw10]

I know that a 0-0 away from home in the CL (usually seen as a bad result) will be enough because usually I will win my home game.

I drew at Manchester United and PSG 0-0 and yet won 5-0 and 5-2 in the return legs respectively.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I know that a 0-0 away from home in the CL (usually seen as a bad result) will be enough because usually I will win my home game.

I drew at Manchester United and PSG 0-0 and yet won 5-0 and 5-2 in the return legs respectively.

Yeah it is easier at home by a long shot. A good example I've had is;

1-0 Away to liverpool

6-1 Home (5-0 by half time...)

Mind you that works for most of my home/away ties:

4-0 vs WHU at Home / 1-0 Away

4-0 vs Fulham at home / 2-1 away

4-0 Vs Newcastle home / 2-1 away

5-1 Vs Arsenal home / 0-1 away

I also play the same formations 4-2-3-1 Home and 4-1-2-2-1 away.

But then again, I do expect the home team to be more aggressive at home, so I'm much more cautious and that usually shows in my 1/2-0 wins.

[ajw10]

Gah, I just typed out a very lengthy post on the season I had plus an in depth account on what seasons Ramsey, Giroud and Ozil had but Google Chrome shut down and I've lost it all. For **** sake.

[llama3]

You don't do an average mood do you ajw? Elation or hellish anger! Fancy uploading your game like I suggested?

[Stomalomalus]

A fact of football in general terms is that teams do better at home than they do away.

In Football Manager, there is no in-game weighting to increase the likelihood of the home side winning, nor any notion of artificial "betterness".

However, who is playing where may influence their tactical "vigour" - how assertively they play - but even that will be contextual relative to the form and reputation of the competing sides. It is possible, therefore, that people observing a tangibly different level of performance from their teams away from home, are making no, or inappropriate changes to their own match day strategy.

I do find I struggle more away from home than I do at home, although usually against the weaker teams. Add this to a capacity to play crap against worse teams generally, and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Formation wise, my only real changes for away games against weak teams is to change personnel and maybe one or two shouts depending on the opposition. Yet it never seems to be the formation that causes trouble, more like my players misplace seemingly easy passes that they would otherwise make.

Now I'm not playing that well yet, and I feel my formation is a little lacking in the middle of the park defensively, but I still feel that I should be winning these games. The goals I concede, however, tend to be silly things like corners to the near post (oh I do hate that) and soft penalties, rather than the goals I have nightmares about through the middle.

[Stomalomalus]

To continue the theme, I'm trying to understand the reasons for missed CCCs. I just drew 0-0 with Everton at home, in a game that I dominated and had 4 CCCs. They were pretty normal ones, too, well 3 of them were.

Walcott had the ball put through inside right position coming from the left and hit his shot straight at the keeper, Koscielny dallied on a tap in and allowed himself to be closed down, Yacob was closed down, too and Giroud inexplicably headed over from a Jenkinson cross that beat the defenders and landed on his head with an open goal.

I was also frustrated with Ozil in the Treq position, as he was distinctly underwhelming. Not sure what the problem was, though. As far as I can see, it lies with players not performing their roles to their abilities, as the general positional play is good and the midfield gives itself options most of the time. The WBs provide width, outballs, a passing option and can whip in a cross (Jenkinson MoM last two outings since return from injury). Ramsey has been on fire, with 4 goals and 5 assists in 8 matches, but he was almost anonymous against Everton.

They played two ranks of 4, an AM and a CF, with the RM pushing up and in. This should have meant more space for Monreal and Ramsey to exploit, but most of my best attacks actually came on my right, where a double up of Baines and Boka at LM and LB should have reduced space. Most annoyingly, though, there was acres of space between the mid and defense that Ozil just didn't take advantage of. When Cazorla and Wilshere came on, they found pockets of space, but Ozil was constantly losing possession.

[llama3]

This thread needs to get back on track - it is for tactical help, not ranting. There is a GD thread for constructive feedback.

[Stomalomalus]

Sorry Llama, my posts were more meant to be trying to get to grips with what is actually going on.

My tactics always seem to do a similar thing recently: start with a tough, tough game that I squeak through, pick up until they're really working, and then just tail off in the number of CCCs they produce and the %age of these they put away.

Meanwhile, I have not conceded in 7 straight games. Something is right, but I'm not quite sure what is holding me back. In midfield, I have two CM(A)s, perhaps this is causing the imbalance. But on the other hand, anyone I play there is an intelligent player and they do tend to dovetail well in game, with one staying forward while the other attacks and vice versa.

I've experimenting, so I've just taken away the Roam from Positions TI and added Play Narrower, while adding Play Wider to the two WBs. Next game is away to Hull, the type of match where I would traditionally struggle, so we'll see how it goes.

I also want to try and make the most of the Treq - hence the frustration with Ozil. he had 4 assists in the first 4 games, but nothing since. He has no PIs.

[llama3]

It was not directed towards you.

[Stomalomalus]

It was not directed towards you.

Was mainly just trying to hijack your mind for some advice

[llama3]

Open up your own thread if you please, and I'll give it a look over. This thread is ajw's. Want to keep the advice separate.