Smarf Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ok so im trying to play 4-5-1 with Atletico Madrid and struggling pretty badly...this is how we line up ------------SK(D)------------- FB(S)---CD(D)----CD©---FB(Auto) ------------DM(D)------------- --------AP(A)---DLP(S)-------- W(A)---------------------W(A) ------------DLF(S)------------ The wingers are inverted as to cut inside. Shouts: Retain possession Pass into space Work into box Play out of defence Push higher Stay on feet Mentality: Counter Fluidity: Fluid We have been starting to create a few chances but not really dominating games the way I had hoped and still veryyy leaky at the back, so to keep it simple to start with, is there any glaring errors ive missed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyOn Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 The wingers are inverted as to cut inside. Shouldn't you be using inside forwards then? The winger (attack) role tells players to hug the touchline and cross often, so even if you put an opposite-foot player there they won't always cut in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarf Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 I find that wingers on attack duty on their opposite flank cut in quite a bit so that hasnt been a huge issue for me so far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamsDefined Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Some thoughts. Shape is good for possession football. But I agree with SpartyOn, I'd change at least one of your AM players to an IF-S, and then change the corresponding full-back to either ideally a WB-A if you have the player to get some great overlap, or a FB-A in the minimum. Can't see a Winger being as effective, even if their natural tendency is to drift in because of the opposite foot (or a cut inside PPM).... their instructions tell them to cross it with their weak. Your midfield looks pretty solid, good work. Forward is probably the other major issue. False 9's are the vogue striker option for a 4-3-3/4-5-1, and have worked the best in my saves. DLF drops back okay, but doesnt do enough attacking for me. I've always seen it as operating best when linking midfield to attack in a two-man strike partnership. Personal opinion though. Your shouts look decent for a possession based approach (assume that's what you're wanting), though I'd personally remove Stay on Feet, as your players higher up the pitch won't win the ball back enough. Even try Get Stuck In if you're willing to concede some free's. Oh! I nearly missed it... change the CD© to a standard CD(D). Generally with a high-line and offside trap (not something you're doing now but could be worth exploring), you're better off with two standard CD(D)'s. Or if you really wanted to, a stopper and cover combo. Other than that it's pretty solid to my eye. So if you're not performing better after those changes I'd look at some other areas. Post some game stats/screens if you want more help! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckydon Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I've close opinion to DreamsDefined. First of all, my low-legue team took promotion using this tactic scheme. And we're the best team on conceded goals, which make me think, our defence is not so weak. Especially when you know we've not very skillful CD in compare with our competitors. So, we're using the following roles and duties: ------------GK(D)------------- FB(A)---CD(D)----CD(D)---FB(A) -----------BWM(D)------------- --------AP(A)---BBM(S)-------- DLM(S)------------------DLM(S) ------------F9(S)-------------- First of all - yes, both of my CD have "defend" duty, because of their low skills and yes, with such duty both of them defend much better. FB have attacking duties, even they have not enough skill to goal scoring or make profitable crosses, they help make my attacks wider and deeper. DM have role of Ball Winning only because I've tried him in other roles (Ancorhman, Halfback, DM) and found him not acceptable for it. One of CM has a role of BBM in order to help defence and attack in one time. I've tried flat CM(d) or CM(s) and found it not so effective as BBM in my case. Finally, attacking group has less attacking roles in order to low gap between midfield and attack and in order to force them go back to defence when we play without the ball. Same thoughts about my forward. His best role is poacher, however I use him as False Nine to help him get closer to wingers and midfielders. I have fear he will not score, but at the end of season he recieved prize as Legue Best Scorer - so it is not an issue (for me at least). When I play against stronger side, I could switch my FB to (d) duty to protect my wings better and make more defending team mentality (conter, as a rule). However - yes, it cost me in attack, cause our attacks become much more poor, however we still able to get draw result or even grab last win with minimal goal difference. When playing against very defensive side, I switch my DWM to W(a) or W(s) (depends on how dangerous my opponent is in counter-attacks). However, it helps not in every case - playing against "parking the bus" is my weakest side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydutch Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I'd recommend against a single BWM in front of your defense. They do not hold position well and will frequently stray quite far to close people down. Given the number of AI teams that play 4-2-3-1 with an AMC this can be problematic. Your BWM may run to close down a IF or a CM leaving bags of space for the AMC to either play through balls or draw a center back out of position and play the striker or other IF in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarf Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Yeah possession and passing haven't been an issue, just not playing as well as id like but ill make some tweaks after work based on the feedback and let u know how I get on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarf Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Well if anything my tactic got even worse, cheers anyway guys but im officially calling it quits on fm14, its the single most frustrating game i have ever played Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamsDefined Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Well if anything my tactic got even worse, cheers anyway guys but im officially calling it quits on fm14, its the single most frustrating game i have ever played There's always a reason for things happening though. No good to hear you're quitting, but if you change your mind post a bunch of screens of your formation/team/games/stats and I guarantee you'll be able to get some help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smarf Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Ive been playing this game since the very first edition, im not a newbie, the game is flawed in so many ways its unreal, ive just been played off the park by a non league team, honestly, im done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heddy Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Ive been playing this game since the very first edition, im not a newbie, the game is flawed in so many ways its unreal, ive just been played off the park by a non league team, honestly, im done. I bet it is because one of your CB's have a wrong pi or that one of your strikers hitting the sidenet at the same spot all the time or that one of your fullbacks clears the ball to the middle where someone picks it up and score a dreamgoal. Hell yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Ive been playing this game since the very first edition, im not a newbie, the game is flawed in so many ways its unreal, ive just been played off the park by a non league team, honestly, im done. If you have been played off the park by a non-league team it is you - not the game. The system above has no real players breaking into goalscoring positions. The STC drops deep, the Wingers generally stay wide, none of your 3 central midfielders is breaking into the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest El Payaso Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 This is the first time in several versions when I'm asking for help but really my 4-5-1 isn't succesful anymore (I've used it basically without tweaking since the first season and won the league and got promoted in every season but when I reached Championship, it stopped working properly. Might have something to do with the new update also) The one that I used to play with was: GK: GK (D) DR and DL: Full-back support DCL: Ball playing defender (D) DCR: Central defender (D) DM: DM(D) MCR: MC (S) MCL (A) AMR: DW (S) AML: WGR (A) / IF (A) ST: DLF (S) With these instructions mainly: Fluidity: Fluid / Balanced Mentality: Counter TIs: Shorter passing, pass into space, work ball into box, run at defence As it clearly didn't work: we were in trouble in both defence and when attacking. Only had something like 40% possession and wanted to raise that to 50% atleast. GK: Owain fon Williams DR: Justin Gibbons DL: Brandon Ormonde-Ottewill CB: Emmitt Delfouneso CB: Trevor Brady DM: Dave Boon MC: Andrew Crofts MC: Matt Ball AMR Alexander Rommedahl AML Ravel Morrison ST: Cauley Woodrow S1: Tom King S2: Michael Chambers S3: James Horsfield S4: Mats Daehli S5: Bryn Morris S6: Jordan Graham S7: Jerome Sinclair This is my current team and this is how I have set them up: GK: GK(D) I: shorter passing, defender collect RB: FB (A): sit narrower, run wide with ball DC: CB (D): shorter passing LB: WB (s): shorter passing, sit narrower, run wide with the ball DM: AM (D): shorter passing, close down less MCR: MC(S): mark tighter, shorter passing MCL: MC(A): more direct passes, close down more AMR: DW (S): ease off tackles AML: IF (A): more risky passes, run with ball more often ST: CF (S): move into channels Fluidity: Fluid Strategy: At home control or attack and if we take the lead counter, away games either defend or counter TIs: Shorter passing, play out of defence, pass into space, float crosses, drop deeper The main problems are that we're not dispossessing at all. I've tried tweaking with the roles and tried to concentrate a lot on Opposition instructions but no luck there. My opponents are often just passing the ball around and making 10-15 succesful passes in a row and those attacking moves end to a shot from good positions... Because we're often making many marking errors inside the penalty area especially when the wingers are cutting in and also when the opposition's winger reaches byline and plays a squared cross/pass to the midfielders at the edge of the area, they often are completely unmarked. Also we're really bad in crosses: we should have decent defenders aerially and keeper should dominate aerially but that isn't happening. My full-backs are fast but still getting skinned too often by dribbling wingers. My whole midfield should also be good at playing towards defence and by playing a fluid system that is what I'm expecting from the midfielders. The MC(A) who is Matt Ball, should be doing the backtracking job also but he isn't and Crofts and Boon never seem to perform: AVRs are something like 6,7-6,8s. The style of play I want to apply is that we control the ball like 50% per game, win the ball back with the midfielders and then score most goals from counter attacks. My stiker Woodrow should be a good penalty area player and wings have both pace and flair to do something really good. The main thing also is that I want my team to be dealing with crosses and oppositions' passing moves better. Any help? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Gallagher Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Personally I wouldn't use some of the shouts you are using if you are using a counter strategy. The counter is all about soaking up pressure and hitting on the break at pace. I'd therefore not use a shout of push higher up and I certainly wouldn't use the retain possession instruction. These would be better suited to a control strategy in my opinion. I would use the drop deeper shout instead of push higher up. By dropping deep you are creating space in front for your attacking players to break into. Also, I wouldn't have a deep lying forward in a support role with wingers. I know it is advised to use a support role for a lone forward but who are your wingers going to aim their crosses at? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
omarm88 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 This is how I line up with Lille, second season in Final table Also won the Europa League Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerer Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I'm playing : retain possession, pass into space, exploit the flanks, look for overlap, hassle opponent, use tighter marking With Control and Fluid mentality -----------------------SK------------------------- ---------- -CB-------------------CB--------------- -WB(s)------------------------------------WB(s)-- -----------------------A------------------------ -----------DLP(s)--------------AP(s)-------------- ---IF(A)-----------------------------------IF(A)-- -----------------------P-------------------------- I don't tend to use push higher up because my CB is pretty slow and we're sometimes caught by counter attacking team and i don't also use drop deeper because based on my possession play system i want the CB to support ball passing game Now i'm on 2017 and having won Serie A 2x Copa Italy 1x Supper Copa 2x using Sampdoria the key is both IF's, they have cut inside PPM and have opposite foot ( Left foot for right IF, vice versa ) I'm using Vitinho on the left and Manolo Gabbiadini on the right, also I have Danny who are great on both foot. I must say balance is everything for me, I prefer to win 2 - 0 rather than 5 - 3, so based on that i have 4 players on Defense duty, 4 players on Support, and 3 players on Attack and for me 4 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 1 or 4-5-1 whatever we name it is very balance formation due the shape, balance on both flanks and middle, especially when you have Anchorman who can protect the defense very well, such as Nigel de Jong ( I'm using Maxim Gonalons, though ) The only issue for me sometimes my IF don't help my WB on defense due to their attacking duty, but we can ask them to close down opponent fullbacks, and for me that's helping a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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