matty_superleeds Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 i am very, very impressed with this years game. absoloutely quality. the bits i like alot are: 1. the new team talks, there are lots of options, and its always a challenge to get your players to react well. and once you have chose one you cant choose another, i like that alot. 2. the new match engine, dont really need to elaborate because its just quality. 3. the transfer system is much more realistic 4. all the interaction is alot more realistic and more in depth. 5. there are hardly any bugs at all. over all its just a brilliant game. well played si Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris0710 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Not sure if its new to this year but never seen it before. In my Forest Green Rovers save i had 7 players booked and was fined £750 for failing to control my players. I know this happens IRL but have never come across it before in previous FM. Once i played the demo i had a few concerns about the layout and the font, seemed like every page had so much going on but a couple of days in i dont know what i was worried about. Can hardly remember the FM 11 layout. Good work SI so far... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passion Fruit Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 The match engine is exactly the same, except better/more animations and better overall look. Same exploits, same bugs as 2011. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 The match engine is exactly the same, except better/more animations and better overall look. Same exploits, same bugs as 2011. Defending is much better and finishing much worse. I'm amazed how much terrible finishing there is in this years version. Both my players and the opponments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Defending is much better and finishing much worse. I'm amazed how much terrible finishing there is in this years version. Both my players and the opponments. There are no code changes, so this is just pure imagination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 There are no code changes, so this is just pure imagination. Who told you that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiek tiote is a legend Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 i think some of the tackling looks awkward on the match engine,just my opinion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfgrigg Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Who told you that? Paul Collyer in the Bugs forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Paul Collyer in the Bugs forum. Then I wonder why the unbeatable 4-1-2-3 doesn't work this year. Think he must have talked about one specific area of the matchengine then. Could you point me to the post please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krald Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Defending is much better and finishing much worse. I'm amazed how much terrible finishing there is in this years version. Both my players and the opponments. I remember one game on the Demo, my team had like 17 shots, 0 hit the target, the enemy team had a few on target, and who actually scored a goal against me? Emile Heskey. I just laughed at the irony of one of the poorest finishers being the only one who could hit the net properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quboid Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 With a game of FM's complexity, bugs are inevitable. Which is why I'm so impressed that FM12 is so solid with only one patch, which was ready and downloaded by the time it was released. Great work! I'm very surprised the match engine hasn't changed. Are you sure he didn't say there's no change since the FM12 demo? There is a separate version number for the ME, is this the same as FM11's? I don't have FM11 to check any more. EDIT: Heskey, haha! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Yeah. FM2011 11.3 patch has ME version 9.23 FM2012 has ME version 9.83 So there has been lots of changes. Found what PaulC said: "the decision to base 12's ME on 11.3 was taken in the knowledge that overall it is in good enough shape to allow the ME team to commit maximum time to improving things for the future". That doesn't mean there has been no code changes to the engine. Just that they didn't make it from scratch, but rather kept tuniung and improving it. There are ME code changes in the patches too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 That doesn't mean there has been no code changes to the engine. Just that they didn't make it from scratch, but rather kept tuniung and improving it. There are ME code changes in the patches too. Not true. FM 2012 has the same match engine as FM2011 after the third patch. Only animations where added and improved. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/277409-The-sole-reason-why-I-m-Not-buying-the-game-this-year?p=7145928&viewfull=1#post7145928 and http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/278387-Is-the-Match-Engine-already-at-the-end-of-its-rope?p=7173478&viewfull=1#post7173478 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quboid Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Not true. FM 2012 has the same match engine as FM2011 after the third patch. Only animations where added and improved. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/277409-The-sole-reason-why-I-m-Not-buying-the-game-this-year?p=7145928&viewfull=1#post7145928 Er, from your own link (emphasis mine): Bear in mind the ME in FM2012 is very similar to 11.3 in terms of AI and decision making so I wouldn't expect any noticeable difference stat wise from 11.3. Most changes have been in terms of the 3D representation and wont affect results or stats. So aside from animations, there have been changes. Not many, but some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 There was a tweak to do with keepers leaving their area but I don't recall any others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/277881-FM-12-Match-Engine-Thoughts?p=7154395&viewfull=1#post7154395 PaulC: Its very much based on the 11.3 one. Any changes have pretty much all been related to improving the 3D experience as opposed to changing the manager and player AI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 There was a tweak to do with keepers leaving their area but I don't recall any others. So you pretty much left the most important part of the game untouched. Maybe we should only buy every 3rd version then, and why is the ME version 9.83 (2012) and 9.23 2011, 11.3 I remember in patch notes there were lists of ME changed and they went ME 9.23: Changed bla bla bla ME 9.22: Changed bla bla bla ME 9.21: Changed bla bla bla And there were several ME version updates for each patch. Why is the new version number so much higher then? to give us an illusion of changes? These are the ME changes just for the 10.3 patch: Match v823 ---------- - Narrowed defence in last third especially when ball central - Reduced instances of central defenders getting dragged apart - Reduced instances of central defenders getting pulled to ball outside area when team mates better placed - D-line position change from v821 toned down slightly - Fixed keepers having unrealistic reach at point blank range - Keeper more willing to offer backpass to team mate chasing back to intercept ball in own half - Slight reduction on delay in reactions by keeper who has dropped ball - Tweaked v822 fix for keepers sweeping up through balls to make sure they don’t e.g. come and head clear a ball they could actually control - Fixed AI teams picking Trequartista in same XI as playmaker - Reduced likelihood of lone striker in AI team being used as Trequartista - Made players with high workrate and stamina less likely to be used by AI teams as Trequartista - Fixed players being delayed unrealistically after someone attempts a step tackle on them - Fixed occasional bug causing player not to challenge for header he had moved for - Increased negative effect of lots of new players at once playing in a team - Made ball player less likely to dribble when faced with opponent and near own d-line - Small tweaks to shot, pass, cross and header accuracy - Allowed more backpasses to keeper or short passes to get out of trouble in defensive areas - Fixed bug causing some needless passes to offside players - Reduced unrealistic attempts at difficult passes direct from freekicks - Reduced number of speculative and overambitious through balls - Fixed some lofted kicks being a little slower than player intended - Ensured big games such as Champions League quarters, semis are recognised as such by the players involved - Made sure players are never too under motivated in really big games regardless of situation Match v824 ---------- - Made keepers try to anticipate penalty direction better - Reduced further the reach of keepers when ball comes at them at close range - Made it harder to direct headers under severe pressure/challenge, and/or when really stretching to reach ball height - Reduced instances of players heading ball when they have time to bring it down and control it - Further improved decision making of player when clear on goal - Slight tweak to general choice of shot type - Reduced effect of long shots instruction or PPM in certain positions - Fixed corners rarely being sent to edge of area when instructions are set to do that - Tweaked v823 fix regarding speed of lofted kicks - Slight increase in dribbling speeds over smaller distances - Fixed players appearing to "scoop" ball forwards slightly when running at pace with it - Made defenders a bit quicker to correct lateral position when defending - Improved running line of defenders who need to cover ground to engage ball player - Reduced occasional positioning flaws when trying to show ball player onto a certain foot - Fixed rare issue with defenders leaving cross to go out and allowing attackers to head ball unchallenged - Fixed a couple of issues that could cause players not to challenge for ball they had gone for - Tried to reduce instances of unrealistic closing down of ball player by defenders - Fixed player who is set to mark tall player following that player outside the area when defending a corner or free kick - Improved reactions of attacking team to saves and rebounds - Made players come deep to find space rather than look for it behind opposition D-line when their instructions and PPMs are better suited to that - Fixed player set to "challenge keeper" at corners actively looking to move away and towards ball instead - Reduced the worst player motivation drops when team is well ahead in match it should win - Limited motivation drops in big matches - Tweaked player match ratings - Reduced effect of fatigue upon physical abilities apart from pace and acceleration - Fixed some possible cases of players walking through the side of the dugout - Made physios go around the back of the goal when returning to the bench from the far side of the pitch Match v825 ---------- - Improved AI when looking for potential through balls - Small tweak to simple pass to feet accuracy - Made players use first time passes and shots less frequently unless clearly the obvious thing to do - Reduced number of illogical long shots generally - Sanity check on unrealistically hard kicks e.g. shots from very long distance - Tried to encourage players to cross a little more readily in obvious situations - Fixed rare occurrences of defenders who are right on own goal line clearing ball into own goal instead of away from it - Slightly toned down speed of Rory Delap style bullet throw - Fixed bug where team doesn’t give ball back to opponents who kicked it out due to an injury - Made defenders shift laterally a little more intelligently as play switched - Fixed some defenders being default positioned in no mans land when facing a cross situation - Try to further reduce needless double marking of ball player especially by centre halves - Tweak to defending player choice of player to mark in own area - Fixed bug where defender can be marking player and then switches off as pass made to that player before resuming marking him - Fixed code anomaly in the way keeper saves are dealt with at point blank range - Small tweak on keeper anticipation of penalty direction - Fixed bug where keeper could take throw occasionally in opponent's half - Slight reduction on effect of goals upon individual match player ratings - Adjustments to post match effect upon reputation, namely a major flaw fixed for FML matches and a minor one for FM matches. Match v826 ---------- - Adjusted goalkeeper pathfinding around the side of the net Match v827 ---------- - Small tweak to AI manager's expectation of result - Implemented use of AI manager dirtiness allowance attribute on tackling style - Made AI managers with lower passing directness bias towards "control" strategy over "attacking" strategy - Made AI managers with lower passing directness more likely to use "retain possession" and "look for overlap" touchline instructions - Made full backs keep closer eye on opposing winger when play central or on their side - Made team with ball shift position better when ball moves laterally - Small improvement to player reaction time to pass or shot being made - Encouraged smart use of first touch control over first time pass/shot where applicable - Improved choice of run with ball direction when on wing according to instruction and/or strongest foot - Reduce number of long shots from players with "LOOKS_FOR_PASS_NOT_SHOT" PPM - Aimed crosses, corners and indirect free kicks from wide a couple of yards further away from goal - Fixed short pass back to throw in taker being discouraged - Reduced number of risky low benefit passes - Reduce number of aimless clearances when not very close to own goal - Removed cross from by-line instruction from INSIDE_FORWARD role - Removed try longshots often instruction from ADVANCED_PLAYMAKER role - Dampened ball rebound velocity from ad hoardings - Fixed offside’s being called on player who was offside on an earlier pass than one played to him Match v828 ---------- - Tweaked effect of consistency very slightly - Improved positioning at attacking free kicks from deeper wide areas - Fixed bug causing central defenders to cover full back positions prematurely - Fixed player going for loose ball, getting there after opponent and then illogically passing opponent off to team mate - Made defenders come out from centre to engage wide player when obviously required - Improved player recognition of having a clear run towards goal - Small tweak to shot, header and pass accuracy - Improved use of header across area when too narrow angle to go for goal - Reduced number of unnecessary risky passes slightly Match v829 ---------- - Small tweak to positioning of defenders that was supposed to have been in v827 but wasn’t - Encouraged teams with narrow formations to get full backs overlapping - Tweaked "when to cross" AI - Increased accuracy of corners and whipped in free kicks slightly - Stopped attacking players rushing the 6 yard box before ball played in - Improved willingness to run with ball when under no pressure - Fixed attackers standing still in bad positions to avoid moving offside - Fixed player going to mark opponent when team mate already moving to intercept pass - Reduced instances of quality players making unrealistic panicky decisions in own half Match v830 ---------- - Fixed FML pkms not loading into FM viewer Match v831 ---------- - Improved attacking movement when ball played in from wide set piece (not corners) - Tried to improve keeper starting position and general movement when defending a corner or wide free kick - Get teams to use overlap shout against narrow formations when not playing too defensively - Tweaked effect of blend, morale and consistency on match performance - Tried to get cultured players to knock the ball around a bit more - Fixed rare bug where keeper wont save shot really close to his body - Improved decision making for players when in last third and running with ball in a wide area including cross choice - Fixed tall players marking opponents outside of own area when defending a corner - Fixed bug where player can move right back into own area for no apparent reason after his keeper has picked up the ball - Stopped wide players moving into channels when they should already be in them - Reduced short bobbly passes - Reduced instances of bizarre "Mr Fifty Pence-Head" headers in own area Match v832 ---------- - Tweaked AI choice of tactics strategy...less use of contain and defensive when unnecessary - Got AI to use "Hassle Opponents" shout when they want to stop defensive minded opposition knocking ball around the back - Made man marking and high closing down settings ( as in Hassle Opponents ) work more definitively in tandem - Reduced effect of 831 change that got too many average players trying to knock the ball around more - Increased likelihood of crosses being attempted and also made attackers get a little closer to the six yard box in anticipation - Tried to reduce number of overly risky passes that have little benefit Match v833 ---------- - Implemented better zonal marking at corners and free kicks near corner to try to reduce exploits - Improved defender reaction slightly to corners and similar balls into area - Small tweak to accuracy of longer shots and passes - Made AI managers a little more ambitious still in terms of strategy - Slight tweak to match ratings of wide players Match v834 ---------- - Fixed keeper holding starting position for too long after corner kick is taken - Fixed small flaw in 833 change regarding defender reaction to balls into area - Couple of small tweaks to crossing AI Match v835 ---------- - AI less likely to leave 2 up when defending corner - AI use more zonal marking at corners - Fixed short goal kicks issue - Slight tweak to 834 crossing tweak - Slightly less speculative passes from superior players - Rebalanced stats slightly Match v836 ---------- - Fine tuned pass risk balance - Slightly toned down long shots at lower levels - Made more deep lying strikers come short a little more - Improved indirect free kick destination point from wide areas - Very slightly boosted header accuracy Match v837 ---------- - Slightly more likelihood of player lurking at edge of area at corner being man marked - Fixed dodgy 2 man wall at direct free kicks either side of penalty area D - Fine tuned ratings by position Match v838 ---------- - Fixed corner exploit that utilised two players lurking outside area Match v839 ---------- - Fixed specific corner marking not working on player lurking outside area - Fixed tactic creator leaving too many forward when defending a corner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 And there were several ME version updates for each patch. Why is the new version number so much higher then? to give us an illusion of changes? Because 3-D animations are part of the ME and those changes did increase the ME number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Even though the match engine has had no changes to it, the morale engine has, and it accounts for something like 30-60% of what transpires on the pitch. To me it seems like two things have happened to the ME whether or not this was intentional. 1. The central defenders read through balls quicker. 2. Midfielders and attackers tracks deeper than in FM11. I often see strikers chasing the ball along with my defensive midfielders and that happened very rarely in FM11. It appears that there are fewer shots in general. Matches with both teams ending up with less than 10 shots each (and sometimes together) were very rare in FM11. Maybe it has to do with the new Detailed Match Stats screen? Shots are counted differently, it seems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 In my matches shooting stats are usually like 18-10 or 20-11 or such. But every finish is crap. either its a slow 1 mph shot that could't trouble a 5 year old kid, or if they put any more power on the shot it goes over. It's not just my guys but also the opponments. But finishing has gotten better and better as the season progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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