Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '07

[Benoit2]

Originally posted by jornada:

Crazy gra - im glad im not the only one thinking that home and away tactics are obselete.

Why? It seems to me there is, somehow, a huge difference between home and away. Just compare the tables for all teams. Every team performs awful away.

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/3562/12152006021204vp8.jpg

[nic9394]

it's like that irl too. look at liverpool >.<

[Benoit2]

Originally posted by nic9394:

it's like that irl too. look at liverpool >.<

So because one team struggle away in real life, this means its realistic if every team struggles away in the game?

Teams are simply far too good at home in the game. Or too poor away...

[Beevster]

So really we need to be concentrating on our away matches, if we get the tactic right there then with home form easyer we should be onto a winner

[wwfan]

Originally posted by Beevster:

So really we need to be concentrating on our away matches, if we get the tactic right there then with home form easyer we should be onto a winner

Already on it, but t'aint easy.

[crazy gra]

Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra:

i was also looking at manager styles, as this give you an idea into their CD, mentality and marking.

the thing is, that in every manager's profile that i've seen, everyone of them has a very cautious playing mentality. this means that most managers will play with a low mentality so that they don't get caught out of position and hardly ever take risks i.e. take actions that are likely to succeed rather than something chancy.

Pressing

a closing down pressing means that you should probably play a quicker tempo or else your players are more likely to get tackled.

a stand-off pressing means that you can afford to play a slow game because the opposition will gave you time on the ball, so that when they do close you down you have had more time to see available options.

marking style

not so sure about zonal marking, but i guess that it's the opposite to man marking in the effect that your strikers are more likely to receive the ball to feet more successfully than if the opposition are marking zonally.

zonal marking is likely to mean that trying to get your STs to run onto the ball won't be as successful.

in summary, i'm assuming that you should be able to pass the ball shorter if the opposition are zonal marking, whereas a more direct passing style could be more effective against a tight marking style.

Interesting observations. Have you empirically tested this or is it still theoretical? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's all theory and was things i have been noting down when i've been looking in the manager profiles. at this rate i could end up with about 20 different tactics because of the different team's playing styles, manager preferations and also weather conditions!

have you looked at my tactic yet?

[crazy gra]

Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beevster:

So really we need to be concentrating on our away matches, if we get the tactic right there then with home form easyer we should be onto a winner

Already on it, but t'aint easy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i think i noted somewhere that home sides seem to attack a lot more than they used to. using my away tactic, i've been managing to score easier than at home but don't get many clean sheets.

[Ans Gulrik]

Originally posted by crazy gra:

i agree with your point of instant re-ranking wwfan. i've noticed that they changed in my favour as i progressed up the league. when i was top, i was favourites for nearly every match, but when i slipped to 2nd i wasn't favourites for as many games.

i also noticed in that post you said that when you play a short passing game, you have a wider width. i thought about this a while a go and thought about giving width a bit of a test.

my prior thinking was that to play a short passing (and hence a slow tempo), you would benefit from a narrower width so that players are closer together for making passes. therefore, the opposite applies when playing a direct (and hence a quick tempo) in that it'd be better to be wider so that players are more spaced out to compliment the direct passing.

i think you had already said somewhere that you noticed that width doesn't affect the width of the defence. i noticed basically the same thing, that width only takes effect when you are in possession.

i tested width in different situations. i played a short passing with a slow tempo in some games and a direct, quick tempo in some other games. during these games, i played one half with a width of 5 and the other half with a width of 15. for either a short + slow or a direct + quick game there wasn't much difference in the number of goals scored or conceded, i noticed quite a contrast in the amount of shots and shots on target.

for short + slow halves, a narrow width produced more shots and SOTs than playing a wide system. in direct + quick halves, a wider system gave me greater shots and SOTs than a narrow width. i don't have any figures to back all this up, but i was just doing some simple observations. of what i can remember, i seemed to only get 3 or 4 shots in some of the halves where i played either a short/slow/wide or a direct/quick/narrow system, whereas when i played a short/slow/narrow or a direct/quick/wide system i sometimes managed about 10 shots in the halves i played with them.

in conclusion, i now play a width which is the same setting as my team passing and tempo, although it may be beneficial to play not so wide with direct team passing and quick tempo as the midfielders and forwards all have individual passing of under 10.

Thought your idea was interesting crazy gra, so I tested it - was not bad, but I'm not convinced. I finished 3rd with Newcaste.

Then I went back to my most succesfull game (winning the double with Wigan in the 2 first seasons). In that game I played Passing 4, Tempo 4, Width 16. In that game I am averaging 2,1 point per game. A lot better.

I think short passing is not supposed to be taken litterally. It is asking your players to pass thoughtfully, with aim and to feet. It does not mean that they should avoid long passes. Obviously there will be fewer long passes and more short passes, but that is down to the other criterias. Hence, distance between your players is not necessarily a problem.

Obviously the Wigan game was in the PL. Your principle (coordinating pass, tempo and width), might be a solid solution elsewhere.

[crazy gra]

yeah, i've been giving width a bit more a thought lately. like i said above in this page, i'm not going to have home and away tactics but am going to have 1 main tactic and make a few others to combat the main different opposition styles.

i think width may come into this somewhere, although i'm not quite sure on how exactly just yet.

do you (or anyone else) agree with me that width only takes effect when your team is in possession? i took plenty of screenshots in different circumstances, which tends to prove this. i suppose looking at it defensively, you may want to play narrower because of instances where you get countered, but that's it IMO.

it should also depend on your formation e.g. if your playing a chelsea-like 4-1-3-2 (i.e. 3 MCs) then it probably would be more advantageous to play wide so that the outer MCs can turn into wingers when needed. the same could be applied for the opposite of one MC with an MR and ML, so you'd want to play narrower so that there's more passing options in midfield.

in a 4-4-2, it should be normal because of that above assumption, but i'm going to have a think about it and get back soon.

[roblfc]

Just read the main part of the thread, defianelty worth it.

[wwfan]

Christmas Tactic Set

Something I have been working on....

I will provide support in 2007. They are not TTF RoT tactics, but still based on applying logical frameworks accross the board when designing tactics. Undoubtedly the best set of tactics I have come up with in 07. Please do not ask for support until 8 Jan 2007 as I won't be able to provide it. However, should you shoose to use them god luck and Merry Christmas.

[golden_goal]

thanks for the x-mas present wwfan. happy holidays to you

as for the width thing, it's an interesting point you make crazy gra, it could be why i'm struggling to fins consistency with my 4-4-2. I've been adjusting the width to wide/narrow based on whether or not I'm a favorite to win with limited success. Maybe a normal width, but tweaking of mentality is the answer...

[fo\'shizzle]

Originally posted by wwfan:

Christmas Tactic Set

Something I have been working on....

I will provide support in 2007. They are not TTF RoT tactics, but still based on applying logical frameworks accross the board when designing tactics. Undoubtedly the best set of tactics I have come up with in 07. Please do not ask for support until 8 Jan 2007 as I won't be able to provide it. However, should you shoose to use them god luck and Merry Christmas.

This set is f*?*??* incredible!!! Won Champs League with Ajax in 1st season. Semifinal vs. R.Madrid 3:0 away,and 3:0 home wins.

wwwfan, CONGRATULATIONS and MERRY X-MAS

[wwfan]

Originally posted by fo'shizzle:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

Christmas Tactic Set

Something I have been working on....

I will provide support in 2007. They are not TTF RoT tactics, but still based on applying logical frameworks accross the board when designing tactics. Undoubtedly the best set of tactics I have come up with in 07. Please do not ask for support until 8 Jan 2007 as I won't be able to provide it. However, should you shoose to use them god luck and Merry Christmas.

This set is f*?*??* incredible!!! Won Champs League with Ajax in 1st season. Semifinal vs. R.Madrid 3:0 away,and 3:0 home wins.

wwwfan, CONGRATULATIONS and MERRY X-MAS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rare praise indeed. Having been using the tactics in L2 and dominating it with a very poor side, I was reasonably sure they would translate to higher levels, but had no empiircal proof. I'm glad to see that they seem to work at the highest level as well.

[crazy gra]

Originally posted by fo'shizzle:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

Christmas Tactic Set

Something I have been working on....

I will provide support in 2007. They are not TTF RoT tactics, but still based on applying logical frameworks accross the board when designing tactics. Undoubtedly the best set of tactics I have come up with in 07. Please do not ask for support until 8 Jan 2007 as I won't be able to provide it. However, should you shoose to use them god luck and Merry Christmas.

This set is f*?*??* incredible!!! Won Champs League with Ajax in 1st season. Semifinal vs. R.Madrid 3:0 away,and 3:0 home wins.

wwwfan, CONGRATULATIONS and MERRY X-MAS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i assume you played just the end of the season with wwfan's new tactics? surely you can;t have just sped through a season with them?!

[crazy gra]

Originally posted by golden_goal:

as for the width thing, it's an interesting point you make crazy gra, it could be why i'm struggling to fins consistency with my 4-4-2. I've been adjusting the width to wide/narrow based on whether or not I'm a favorite to win with limited success. Maybe a normal width, but tweaking of mentality is the answer...

it's one of the main things in a tactic that i'm not sure on just yet. however, i played west ham away last night as man utd. i've often struggled to win against them, but atm i'm taking scout reports and manager profile info into consideration then tweaking my tactic to counter the opposition's weaknesses and to strengthen where i need to.

the main difference that i made in the west ham game was to be a little more defensive with more direct passing, higher tempo and a counter attack, because pardew's playing mentality is 'adventurous'. he may be the only 'adventurous' manager in the premiership, because all the others i looked at were 'very cautious'.

'adventurous' IMO means that they will attack you a little more than usual, but also leave themselves more susceptible to attacks, which is why i used a counter attack. instead of setting width at what i would have before i.e. at the same level as tempo and passing, i decided to try a width of 15 as i was using the counter attack in my tactic.

i won the game 4-0, although west ham had nearly as many shots as me and the post match report said the game was quite even, which was probably down to me sitting back more than usual and waiting for the counter attack. i'm playing all my games at the moment by tweaking the tactic according to scout reports and manager profile info and i'll be making reports on all the games i play, what i tweaked and how much the tweaking helped me in my tactic thread, somewhere near the top of this forum i hope.

[fo\'shizzle]

Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fo'shizzle:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

Christmas Tactic Set

Something I have been working on....

I will provide support in 2007. They are not TTF RoT tactics, but still based on applying logical frameworks accross the board when designing tactics. Undoubtedly the best set of tactics I have come up with in 07. Please do not ask for support until 8 Jan 2007 as I won't be able to provide it. However, should you shoose to use them god luck and Merry Christmas.

This set is f*?*??* incredible!!! Won Champs League with Ajax in 1st season. Semifinal vs. R.Madrid 3:0 away,and 3:0 home wins.

wwwfan, CONGRATULATIONS and MERRY X-MAS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rare praise indeed. Having been using the tactics in L2 and dominating it with a very poor side, I was reasonably sure they would translate to higher levels, but had no empiircal proof. I'm glad to see that they seem to work at the highest level as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

After patch the game is harder and the way these tactics dominate home and incredibly away it's just incredible.

As I understand you should use them like this (the way I used them):

Away tac. - for away vs. stronger team

Awayatt tac. - for away vs. weaker side

Home/HomeAlt tac. - home vs. weaker side*

Homedef tac. - home vs. stronger

At least that is how I used them with Ajax.

1. Awayatt.tac seems not so great, maybe I'm not using it properly, but I used it only vs. weaker sides so didn't have much problems...few losses came using that tactic.

*. 2. Are home and homeatlt.tac same tactic?

I know you said you'll give more info after x-mas...but please answer if you're still around

Sorry for bad english

[fo\'shizzle]

Originally posted by crazy gra:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fo'shizzle:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

Christmas Tactic Set

Something I have been working on....

I will provide support in 2007. They are not TTF RoT tactics, but still based on applying logical frameworks accross the board when designing tactics. Undoubtedly the best set of tactics I have come up with in 07. Please do not ask for support until 8 Jan 2007 as I won't be able to provide it. However, should you shoose to use them god luck and Merry Christmas.

This set is f*?*??* incredible!!! Won Champs League with Ajax in 1st season. Semifinal vs. R.Madrid 3:0 away,and 3:0 home wins.

wwwfan, CONGRATULATIONS and MERRY X-MAS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i assume you played just the end of the season with wwfan's new tactics? surely you can;t have just sped through a season with them?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I used them for 4 monhs... from approx 1.1. - end of season. But all of my champs league games were played with them - won vs. Man utd,real,celtic in final... no losses. just fkin incredible.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by fo'shizzle:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazy gra:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fo'shizzle:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

Christmas Tactic Set

Something I have been working on....

I will provide support in 2007. They are not TTF RoT tactics, but still based on applying logical frameworks accross the board when designing tactics. Undoubtedly the best set of tactics I have come up with in 07. Please do not ask for support until 8 Jan 2007 as I won't be able to provide it. However, should you shoose to use them god luck and Merry Christmas.

This set is f*?*??* incredible!!! Won Champs League with Ajax in 1st season. Semifinal vs. R.Madrid 3:0 away,and 3:0 home wins.

wwwfan, CONGRATULATIONS and MERRY X-MAS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i assume you played just the end of the season with wwfan's new tactics? surely you can;t have just sped through a season with them?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I used them for 4 monhs... from approx 1.1. - end of season. But all of my champs league games were played with them - won vs. Man utd,real,celtic in final... no losses. just fkin incredible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stop swearing and trying to get round the swear filter.

[roblfc]

Made a 442 tactic using this and won the league. Now gonna make a less popular formation- 352 and see how that works.

[roblfc]

A question about playmakers:

If a team has a player with eg. 20 passing and 20 creativity (in other words Pirlo plays for them)..

Is it ALWAYS a good idea to appoint this player as a playmaker?

[adonis]

The difference between the home.tac and homealt.tac is that in the latter the targetman drops off deeper than he does in the other. Like you pointed out thats the way I would use them also.

[Beevster]

I have to be honest, ill try be as posative as i can but after you read my results you will see why im finding that hard.

Start of the season with York city in league one 2008

Started off superb..

3-0 A

1-0 H

1-0 H

1-0 A

but then the AI ajusted and....

1-2 H

1-2 A

0-1 A

1-2 H

1-3 A

1-3 A

So as you can see i got totaly raped after 4 games, i think the player mentaliys have no balence, to much trying to attack or defend not enough in between.

I like the tight marking man marking set up, might try that myself in my own tactic.

maybe im just using it wrong, but i got my team from conference to the position i am now some how so my game cant be that bad!.

Look forward to after christmas when you give out some instructions how to implement the tactic, then ill try it again

[wwfan]

Some brief instructions:

Home or Home Alt: To be used at home when the odds favour you: You can win this unless heavily favoured then I expect a win. I have also been using it at home for matches when the odds are slightly against me as my player morale is sky-high. The Home Alt was designed to get the playmaker's passing percentage up after comments in another forum.

HomeDef: To be used at home when the odds are against you: You can win this or Wish Luck. It is the least tested tactic as I tend to stick with the home tactic as it has been so successful.

AwayAttack: To be used away when the odds slightly favour you: You can win this or Wish Luck. I designed it to cope with re-ranked odds as neither the home nor away could cope with me being pre-match favourites for away games. The home wasn't defensive enough and the away was too defensive. As yet I haven't lost a game using this version, but I have only played a handful.

Away: To be used when the odds are against you: Wish Luck or Nothing to Lose if heavy odds on defeat. I have also used You can win this if the odds are close. Chances are you will be 0-0 at half-time. The We can win this half-time team talk often grabs a 1-0 win.

To watch for:

Passing percentage: Ideally you should be beating the AI at home and close to matching it away. However, keeping the AI in the 50-59% bracket away should compensate for poor passing in your own team. If the AI is at 70%+ and you are in the 50s, then you have probably picked the wrong version. Passing percentages only start to have relevance out at the 20 minute mark. Very often you will be under huge pressure early on in away games only for passing and possession to even out after quarter of an hour.

Possession: You should dominate at home and be close to equal away. If you have made the perfect choice of tactic and team-talk you will even dominate possession away. Again, if you are being hammered possession-wise switch to a different variant and try to get the team playing better in the half-time team-talk.

Chances: AI chances should be restricted to long shots, capitalising on defensive errors or set-pieces. If you are seeing a lot of easy chances coming from open play you have probably picked the wrong version.

Left Winger: It is key you have a good left winger as he will pick up a lot of the target man's flicks. If you are struggling here, then switch the settings for the two FCs and get the TM to flick it to the right winger.

Wingers: They should be getting a lot of chances and seriously help out the front players. They need pace to get on the end of chances. My right winger scores consistently from throw ins.

[Beevster]

Cheers, its working much better now, team talks are quiet important! also selecting the right tactic, like you say the home tactic is very good even vs a strong teams, just tweek the team mentality and the tempo and passing to suit the style of game you need to play vs the other team and its cool, i was using the homedef tactic vs sides i could of used the homatt tactic on, so results faded that way i guess.

Also im thinking that you can mess up a good tactic by using opposition instructions, do you use any with this tactic?, first time around i did my thing that worked with my tactic, this time around i havent given out 1 opposition instruction.

8 wins 2 losses

But you must know my keeper, targetman, and main fast striker is out injured, both wingers that i bought in came with injurys, so im only just getting back into my first team choice.

and things are going very good.

just thought i better let ya know im impressed as i did give bad feedback before.

[roblfc]

wwfan - what kind of players are to be used with these tactics and where?

[Guest POLMOS]

Originally posted by wwfan:

Christmas Tactic Set

Something I have been working on....

I will provide support in 2007. They are not TTF RoT tactics, but still based on applying logical frameworks accross the board when designing tactics. Undoubtedly the best set of tactics I have come up with in 07. Please do not ask for support until 8 Jan 2007 as I won't be able to provide it. However, should you shoose to use them god luck and Merry Christmas.

This tactic set is quite simply 'the best' i have ever tested. Before that i was struggling, with many other tactics mentioned in si forum... I was testing RoT system intensively - with no avail, but this one really r0x! Santa would be proud! Ho! Ho! Ho!

[wwfan]

@ beevster: I only use opp instructions versus the Chelsea 4-5-1/4-3-3 where I force the AML and Amr onto the weaker foot.

@ roblfc: Tall, srong target man and quick, good dribbler for the other FC is all I would suggest. MCa should be creative too.

@ POLMOS: Thanks

[Guest]

I found somethings odd, the crossing success rate seem to be very low (below 10%) i am messing it in a wrong way or this is the way it's supposed to be ?

[ergün]

Originally posted by wwfan:

Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '07

The Rule of Two

The Rule of Two is based upon the assumption that players must have a variety of acceptable passing options available to them. If players are too close together they are too easy to contain, and passing breaks down. If players are too far apart, too many ambitious balls are hit, and passing breaks down. Therefore, each player must be able to pick out someone to pass too who has a mentality within two positions of his own.

Thus, in a 4-4-2 normal tactic, the system would run as follows:

DCs: Mentality = 6

FBs: Mentality = 10

MCd: Mentality = 8

MR/L: Mentality = 12

MCa: Mentality = 16

FC: Mentality = 14

ST: Mentality = 18

Overall Mentality: 112

This is an attacking system with the aggregate mentality being +12 above neutral. It is therefore likely to concede slightly higher than average, but score more as well. Its main strength lies in having high mentality forwards who are always open for clearance passes.

Style: The system follows a Chelsea-esque mode of play. Passing is relatively direct (see Mirroring) so intricate pass and move plays are rare. It does allow a fair degree of creative freedom up front though, so spectacular goals from range or quality strikes after scintillating dribbles happen with reasonable regularity. If set up correctly the user will see plenty of possession across the defence when playing at home, with plenty of movement around the box as the front five look for space, resulting in probing raids as and when opportunities present themselves. In away games there is a lot emphasis on counter-attacking moves that exploit the channels. At home the defensive line is deep but presses heavily. Away the defensive line is high but presses much less.

Mentality Experiments: I would argue against experimenting too much, but the system could be made highly attacking by upping mentality by 2 across the board. Likewise, dropping by 2 would make it defensive and by 4 ultra-defensive. I haven’t tried either so take no responsibility if they don’t work. If you wish to play around with any of the experimental approaches please post your results.

[ergün]

This Framework really fantastic.. everyone could win all cup with only this mentality framework

[moonie]

wwfan, am I right in assuming that your full backs and wingers are set to cross the ball to the FCR, and not to the targetman, obviously in the FCL spot?

I find this very weird, as I've always been told to pump the ball to the target man, at all cost. could you explain the logic behind your settings? might explain the low crossing succes rate Terminsel mentioned.

[Sufian]

This Framework really fantastic.. everyone could win all cup with only this mentality framework

What passing and tempo do you use with this RoT theory?

[Ans Gulrik]

Originally posted by Sufian:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This Framework really fantastic.. everyone could win all cup with only this mentality framework

What passing and tempo do you use with this RoT theory? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it is safe to say that ergün's statement is not true for FM07.

Good Luck ergün! Long may it last!

[Saumyajit]

What setting do you use for Goal keeprs? I put him on max mentality...seems to work for me

[CaptainC]

URL=http://imageshack.us] [/url]

[CaptainC]

My apologies for the attempted screenshot, its been a while, cant quite remember the bits and bobs to make it visible, lol!

...Essentially, what i would like is for we fellow scholars to have a butchers at my system, and help me bring home the bacon.

...Its a ploy i've used with Arsenal and Liverpool, and had remarkable success with. At present, i'm employing its services with Spurs. In a previous game with Wigan, we lacked the consistency needed to take us on in the premiership, and finished mid-table, after a post-xmas slump.

...Many an innovator comes to this forum to gloat about the strengths of their tactics, and how great a manager they are, i beg to differ. The tenet of my system is to keep possession, and have men breaking from the midfield. The wingbax aswell as the AMCs offer the width, draw the defenders in, affording the lone Gunman time and space to make the kill.

...With Henry in this role, he notched an exaggerated 50+goals in all comps, with Rosicky and co chipping in with their fair share. However void of such qualities at Wigan, the shortcoming of my instructions became obvious, with the trio in behind Heskey offering no more than 16 goals collectively!

...Therefore i come to ask for advice on how to get the best out of players in the hole, and ultimately, the front quartet in such a strategy.

...With Arsenal a short passing, slow game was enough to blow the league away, however with Wigan, i had to normalise alot of the team instructions, and feel that this too may have been an error in my ways.

...Any advice?

[CaptainC]

<a href="http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3331tf7.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3310/3331tf7.th.png" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a>

[CaptainC]

[ergün]

Originally posted by Sufian:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This Framework really fantastic.. everyone could win all cup with only this mentality framework

What passing and tempo do you use with this RoT theory? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

short passing(3-4) quick tempo(15-16)

[BAD-RELIGION]

OK, i Quit, 3 games, 3 losts.

Atl Bilbao 1 - 2 Real Soc.

Betis 1 - 0 Atl Bilbao

Atl Bilbao 0 - 1 Atl Madrid

[golden_goal]

Originally posted by BAD-RELIGION:

OK, i Quit, 3 games, 3 losts.

Atl Bilbao 1 - 2 Real Soc.

Betis 1 - 0 Atl Bilbao

Atl Bilbao 0 - 1 Atl Madrid

ok, thanks for letting us know.

(seriously, if you are just plugging in wwfan's tactics and expecting them to work you need to rethink your approach. Try going more defensive in your mentality, or narrower. don't just give up).

[Beevster]

Seen as i was using this tactic at the time i thought i would mention it here:

Changes i have made, this may change for diffrent teams but ill just tell the truth for my situation, i was offred a job at man utd i had been at york for 4 seasons and have been promoted as far as the championship untill i got fed up with the chairman selling my best players so i took the job, since then i tryed this out with man utd and never lost a game scored more goals then i ever have before, so i started a new game with Arsenal as its my favourate team and have applyed it there with the same results.

So im after a few poeple to give this a try it might work for you too

Mirror creative freedom for opposite position like this, note you should change this to suit your players and where you want the creative stuff to come from.

DR mirror with MR in my case 7 and 13

DL mirror with ML in my case 6 and 14

MCa mirror with MCd in my case 7 and 13

SCt mirror with SCfs in my case 4 and 16

DC both had 6

GK 1

Nor sure what to give the dc and gk so i just stuck with what i thought from other tactics.

I also swapped the target man over with the other striker as i wanted my target striker to be further up the field heading the ball into the path of a faster striker who could drubble passed the defence, also it makes sence to have a guy who is capable of heading in a cross to be the front line guy and the quicker striker to be the guy snapping up any spilt errors from the keeper, i also took off hold up the ball that is on the target striker as it didnt help my team up front in my opinion.

Also i have changed the passing style thoughout the team, i dropped every player by 2 notches and have dropped the guys on team mentality by 2 notches, by doing this i needed to up the tempo by 4 notches.

Now in game this is the main change that has done it for me, start of with team mentality 10-11 which ever you like most, when ever you score increase it by 3 notches and keep doing this every time you score, by the time you have 3+ goals you should be playing all out attacking football, if they score first normaly they dont infact since i have done this 1 team has scored first vs me and when they did i just reduced the team mentality 3 notches and worked slowly towards pulling it back, my next plan if they scored again would mean they are on top of my team and are winning me so i would drop it 3 more notches and play counter attack and hope to get a draw, but i never have had to do this so i cant say if it would work or not.

So try it out and see how you get on, i really like it, it feels like my team are playing the correct mentality at the right time in a match, all though no point me saying how good it is untill i hear how other people get on with it, which is where you guys come in

But no promises, just simple little test which might pay off.

[roblfc]

I'm gonna make a new set of tactics using help from this thread. But I need this question answering: if a player in your team has ideal stats for being a playmaker, is it always a good idea to make him one? It doesnt conflict with any tactical instructions?

[Columnarius]

WWFAN, question on some of the cross from and cross to logic.

I've noticed in this set, and in some other popular tactics that wingers are often forced to cross from byline and others (AMC DMC) are told to cross rarely.

Additionally, you have instructions in the home tactics to cross to near or far post for the Wingers and the FBs while cross to target man is selected on the away tactics.

Can you discuss why you go with this? I feel like I lose out on Wingers delivering early crosses on nice break opportunities and I'm not sure why it makes sense to call out the near/far post as opposed to leaving it to mixed.

Hoping to understand this area of the tactics, along with why you keep cross at rarely for some guys.

Cheers for the hard work.

[roblfc]

WWFan I think it would be helpful for you to include other positions in your guide such as wingbacks and sweepers.

[koven]

Beevster,

I'll try out the adjustments you made to WWFan's tactics, but I have a few questions first. I'm assuming you're using the "awayatt" formation for away matches and the regular home tactic at home. Do you ever use the regular defensive away tactic as Arsenal?

Originally posted by Beevster:

Mirror creative freedom for opposite position like this, note you should change this to suit your players and where you want the creative stuff to come from.

DR mirror with MR in my case 7 and 13

DL mirror with ML in my case 6 and 14

MCa mirror with MCd in my case 7 and 13

SCt mirror with SCfs in my case 4 and 16

DC both had 6

GK 1

Looking at the central midfielder instructions, it looks like you're giving you're defensive midfielder higher creative freedom than your attacking mid. Is this right?

I also swapped the target man over with the other striker as i wanted my target striker to be further up the field heading the ball into the path of a faster striker who could drubble passed the defence, also it makes sence to have a guy who is capable of heading in a cross to be the front line guy and the quicker striker to be the guy snapping up any spilt errors from the keeper, i also took off hold up the ball that is on the target striker as it didnt help my team up front in my opinion.

I'm not sure how you're determining that one striker is farther up the field than the other. On the default tactics I downloaded, the strikers have the same mentalities.

Now in game this is the main change that has done it for me, start of with team mentality 10-11 which ever you like most, when ever you score increase it by 3 notches and keep doing this every time you score, by the time you have 3+ goals you should be playing all out attacking football, if they score first normaly they dont infact since i have done this 1 team has scored first vs me and when they did i just reduced the team mentality 3 notches and worked slowly towards pulling it back, my next plan if they scored again would mean they are on top of my team and are winning me so i would drop it 3 more notches and play counter attack and hope to get a draw, but i never have had to do this so i cant say if it would work or not.

What do you do if you score first (move team ment to 13ish) then the opponent scores? Move back to 10ish? Also you mention turning on counter-attacking if you get behind by two, but isn't counter-attacking already turned on?

[roblfc]

My 361 set

Would be grateful for people downloading these and giving me some feedback on how I can improve them.

[Enurunner]

Hmmm. I must admit that the christmas tactic set is sorrily ruining my campaign. Currently I've lost all my away games and won or drawn my home games, with Man Utd. So I'm thinking that I must be doing something completely wrong. I'm in 2008 and currently using Rossi and Rooney as my strikers, with Rooney as target man with supply to feet. At home I use the Home tactic, and away I use the awayatt tactic. I've got Van der Vaart as my playmaker. I usually dominate possesion and often shots on goal (about 12 each game), but I've only scored about a goal a game. Can you help me, or do you need more information to give suggestions?

Thanks in advance

[Guest POLMOS]

Originally posted by Enurunner:

Hmmm. I must admit that the christmas tactic set is sorrily ruining my campaign. Currently I've lost all my away games and won or drawn my home games, with Man Utd. So I'm thinking that I must be doing something completely wrong. I'm in 2008 and currently using Rossi and Rooney as my strikers, with Rooney as target man with supply to feet. At home I use the Home tactic, and away I use the awayatt tactic. I've got Van der Vaart as my playmaker. I usually dominate possesion and often shots on goal (about 12 each game), but I've only scored about a goal a game. Can you help me, or do you need more information to give suggestions?

Thanks in advance

I only use home tactics (home alt or home def - depending on opponent), at kickoff, then when leading i switch to more defensive style (first and foremost i change FR on fullbacks to rarely), i don't use target man, nor playmaker. Sometimes when my scout report mentions that opposing team is using wingers and i should press them, i change closing down for my FB to full.