4-3-2-1 Christmas Tree Formation

[crouchaldinho]

Ah, the good old Christmas Tree. Us England fans can thank Terry Venables for our knowledge of this formation.

Venables experimented with it prior to Euro '96. One of his early experiments looked something like this:

		Seaman


Jones 		Adams 		Bould 		Le Saux 


Anderton 	Ince 		Wise 


	Platt 		Beardsley 


		Shearer 

Another more famous example of the Christmas Tree is that of France in 1998, the World Cup winners:

		Barthez


Thuram 		Desailly	Leboeuf		Lizarazu


Karembeu 	Petit		Deschamps


	Djorkaeff 	Zidane


		Guivarc'h 

Essentially, we can talk about similarities to 4-3-1-2 and the 4-3-3. In terms of the former, we are talking about withdrawing another forward to play in the 'hole'. In terms of the latter, we are talking about a narrow triangle of forwards, the tridente as the Italians call it

The back four is typical, apart from that the fullbacks are probably expected to be more active in attacking play to provide extra width. The two side midfielders (MCR & MCL) are expected to play box-to-box, with the central midfielder (MCC) tending to protect and cover. Up front, the two attacking midfielders are often split, with one tending to be more attacking than the other, and the other tending to be more of the 'hole' player. An 'attack' and 'support' split makes sense here. They also need roaming and wideplay settings to encourage them to create width and attack space as the play develops. Up front, the lone striker tends to be a strong striker who can hold up the ball and, most importantly, score goals.

I think a good setting is something like this:

GK	Default			Defend
DR	Fullback		Auto
DL 	Wingback		Auto
DC 	Defender		Defend
DC 	Defender		Defend
MCr	Central mid		Support
MCl	Central mid		Attack
MCc	Ball-winning mid	Defend
AMCr	Attacking mid		Support
AMCl	Attacking mid		Attack
ST	Deep-lying forward	Attack

At the back, I prefer to have one fullback and one wingback to get forward all of the time.

In midfield, I have the ball-winner flanked by one player who will tend to support and sit more than the other who will get forward and add another threat.

Up front, I use split duties for the AMs, resulting in one who sits in the hole more often and one who runs into the box from deep very often.

For the striker, the deep-lying forward with an attack duty is a great setting for a strong striker who can hold and score goals.

Of course, more specific roles could be used if you have players who fit in with other roles better. I don't recommend the 'advanced playmaker' for the AM role however because of the lack of wideplay and roaming. It is important that these players are free to attack space and move into the channels etc.

Some other famous and more recent examples from last season of teams using this system are:

Chelsea with this line-up - http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/152528/

Inter with this line-up - http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/152528/

Also, an interesting analysis of Chelsea's Christmas Tree here - http://tomwfootball.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/tactics-chelsea-without-drogba-a-study-in-symmetry/

[higgins]

Carlo Ancelotti used that tactic with Milan too, with Seedorf and Kakà behind Pato or Inzaghi.

Silvio Berlusconi always hated that shape, too defensive he said....

[crouchaldinho]

That's true. I was going to post up the old Milan line-up as well but I forgot!

[Falahk]

Some other famous and more recent examples from last season of teams using this system are:

Chelsea with this line-up - http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/152528/

Inter with this line-up - http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/152528/

both these links to inter formations, so fix them links

Zonal Marking article on the Milan Christmas Tree Formation:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/01/22/teams-of-the-decade-14-milan-2002-07/

[crouchaldinho]

Chelsea link - http://www.football-lineups.com/lineup/136625/

[crouchaldinho]

Worth posting this from the Football Italiano website:

Albero di Natale

An iteration of the 4-3-3 which has enjoyed some popularity in recent years is the 4-3-2-1, or formation ‘ad albero di natale.’ The expression means ‘Christmas tree,’ with reference to the triangular ‘fir-tree’ shape that the men draw on the pitch (from the broad base of defenders to the lone individual at the top of the ‘tree’). The formation is one which is fast and offensive, and it has been the darling of ex-Milan Coach Carlo Ancelotti for a while. It awarded him success in Europe but saw him struggle in Serie A, where teams afforded his formation less space for creativity. As a variation of the 4-3-3, the Christmas tree makes use of a trident. Of all the formations which do this, however, this is the most unpredictable in the composition of its three forward men. While it is possible to field the usual trio of fantasista, prima punta and seconda punta, the formation seems designed specifically to exploit the creativity of two fantasisti behind a single prima punta - the two players at the back of the striker are normally quite flexible in their role, juggling tasks which belong to the seconda punta or the trequartista or both. This explains why the formation has been adopted at Milan, where a number of players such as Kaka, Clarence Seedorf, Andriy Shevchenko and Ronaldinho all seemed to possess attributes of (relatively) free-roaming fantasisti. Then again, the forward at the top of the Christmas tree is not always a pristine prima punta, and depending on the skill-sets of the men behind him, he may very well be a seconda punta, a velocista or yet another fantasista.

[qadsawee79]

Nice presentation crouchaldinho,, but can you explain ur reasoning behind making the striker with an attacking role ?? wouldn't that leave isolated ??

[Falahk]

Nice presentation crouchaldinho,, but can you explain ur reasoning behind making the striker with an attacking role ?? wouldn't that leave isolated ??

the amc's cover that gap

time for a stupid question:

how on earth does one break this formation down? i just lost out on a league title (results betwin teams, ouch) and a super cup to Udinese (that plays x-mass tree), it could very well be good players and the insanly creative trident that does me in...but im to be honest cluless on how to respond to it....

normaly d'agostino would be playing in the center over badelj

[crouchaldinho]

Nice presentation crouchaldinho,, but can you explain ur reasoning behind making the striker with an attacking role ?? wouldn't that leave isolated ??

He has support from the attacking midfielders. You could use a support or an attack duty for the striker depending on the sort of player you have.

the amc's cover that gap

time for a stupid question:

how on earth does one break this formation down? i just lost out on a league title (results betwin teams, ouch) and a super cup to Udinese (that plays x-mass tree), it could very well be good players and the insanly creative trident that does me in...but im to be honest cluless on how to respond to it....

Depends what system you play really. You could try a 4-2-3-1 deep, with the two DMs able to stop the opposition AMs from having the space in which to operate and do their damage.

Playing wide and using shouts in order to utilise the flanks would be another good tip, as obviously this formation floods the centre.

Of course, you could try playing narrowly yourself and matching the opposition shape.

[crouchaldinho]

Nice presentation crouchaldinho,, but can you explain ur reasoning behind making the striker with an attacking role ?? wouldn't that leave isolated ??

He has support from the attacking midfielders. You could use a support or an attack duty for the striker depending on the sort of player you have.

the amc's cover that gap

time for a stupid question:

how on earth does one break this formation down? i just lost out on a league title (results betwin teams, ouch) and a super cup to Udinese (that plays x-mass tree), it could very well be good players and the insanly creative trident that does me in...but im to be honest cluless on how to respond to it....

Depends what system you play really. You could try a 4-2-3-1 deep, with the two DMs able to stop the opposition AMs from having the space in which to operate and do their damage.

Playing wide and using shouts in order to utilise the flanks would be another good tip, as obviously this formation floods the centre.

Of course, you could try playing narrowly yourself and matching the opposition shape.

[Falahk]

i have more or less gone for a "if you cant beat em, join em" mentality, hence im now dabling in to recreate Ancelotti's 4-3-2-1, thought with an inverted shape since my left back wonderkid is the best one going forward, first game went ok-ish beat River Plate 2-1 burining of 20 shoots, 6ccc's, 2 woodwork, only 4 from distance, and my attacking left back scored a brace

im not sure if very fluid/attack is the way to go since my team looked like a mess, but its hard to argue with the chanses created

[Techstep]

I've been experimenting with this formation myself at the moment as i have alot of top quality midfielders, but while its working as a nice possesion game for me and my ball retention is great theres very little created up top. I've won most matches by scoring 30 yarders just because my team are so good at long shots, but generally the play is good up untill the final 3rd then the team just seem to run out of idea's. Striker doesnt seem to run in behind and not enough through balls are slotted through and it ends up as contest of who on my team can have the most longshots.

I've tried to reduce the longshots with instructions and such but because i let my team be quite creative, i'm generally ignored . Any idea to getting more CCC's? I've got my team settings to shorter passing and more expressive, though on a balanced Philosophy. What have you got yours set to?

Ta

[Falahk]

like i mentioned i have played very fluid/attack, front 3 is set up as Compleat forward/attack, Inside forward attack, Trequartista....all tweeked to longshot on rare and the treq has forwad runs set to sometimes

have worked great so far with additional testing done with Sporting CP, the attacking just seams to rip teams to shreds, im still leting in goals mostly on overlaps but that could be due to only having so so defenders at sporting, the fundamental nature of the shape seams to be pretty solid in defence anyhow, so i may be overreacting a bit

[PrimeTime76]

Carlo Ancelotti used that tactic with Milan too, with Seedorf and Kakà behind Pato or Inzaghi.

Silvio Berlusconi always hated that shape, too defensive he said....

and all of us Milan fans hate Berlusconi just as much! If he'd keep his arrogant nose out of everyone's business we might win a couple more scudetti! I remember this formation in Champion's a few years back with Crespo as striker....he scored the goals to put Man Utd out that season.

GK - Dida

LB - Maldini

CB - Stam

CB - Nesta

RB - Cafu

CM - Rui Costa

CM - Pirlo

CM - Gattuso

AM - Kaka

AM - Seedorf

ST - Crespo

[ky jelly]

i'm having a hard time setting up a solid 3 man midfield (in terms of defending especially closing down opposition) in this formation. it seems like the opposition wingers/offensive fullbacks are having an easy time going through the midfield barrier and find themselves 1 on 1 with the fullbacks too many times for my liking. central midfield is overly crowded with my 5 players, and opponent's cm (being closed down a lot) usually ping the ball to the wing and in no time, i am back to defending again

i was trying to set my team the way ancelotti's milan work, with a dmc being a deep playmaker in the middle and 2 ball winning midfielders helping him out (being newcastle, i have deco as the playmaker and alan smith & guthrie as the ball winners)

deco's mentality is about 8-9, a few notches frm defensive, creative freedom usually ranges depending on opposition, closing down on 12 (dont want him to close down that much since he should be the one orchestrating the play), normal tackling. no fwr, mixed rwb seldom long shots, often through ball & mixed crossing from deep. he's on zonal marking, move into channels and the rest is left alone (using the traditional version, not the tactic creator)

the other 2 midfielders are on staggered mentality, usually 10 and 12, normal creative freedom, closing down on 15 (hoping that they will win the ball asap or hassle the opponents), normal/hard tackling, mixed fwr, mixed rwb, mixed long shots, mixed through ball & mixed crossing from deep. they are also on zonal marking but tight (i thought man marking would get them to man-mark the opposite cm, leaving the wing empty)

the 2 attacking midfielders are also on staggered mentality of 12-15 (depending on how good the other team is), closing down on 15, easy tackling, mixed fwr, often rwb, and are set to move into channels. tight zonal marking seems to make them hassle the opposite dmc or mc pretty well.

i haven't watched ancelotti's milan side that much and i wonder how do they deal with opposite wingers and attacking fullbacks. jose mourinho's inter seemed to stand off the ball pretty much all the time (sometimes with hard tackling), applied very tight zonal marking and break on a speedy counter attack. i tried to give my team such settings and apparently it's suicidal as they just backtrack and put pressure on my not-so-good defence. since deco has 8 for pace, he would be perfect for the 'pirlo' role rather than 'sneijder'. anyone has any input?

[Dazbo101]

any other ideas on this formation....im enjoying the reading to be honest lol

[MadMax7]

So I thought I'd give this a try with my AC Milan team as we seemed to be struggling a little with my usual 4-3-1-2 formation. Here's how I set it up:

GK - Defend

Centre backs - Defend

Full backs - Support

Central Midfielders - left and right on support, the middle guy set to Defend and 'Defensive'

Trequarista on the right, Attacking Midfielder on the left

Complete Forward

Fluid, Attacking, Short Passing and Zonal Marking. Defensive line on Normal, one up from Deep, Width two up from the middle, Tempo Normal one up from Slow and Time Wasting in the middle. No primary playmaker.

The results?

31 goals in 21 games. 13 wins, 5 defeats and 3 draws. Pretty impressive. This formation started off like a train for me and we were dominating games, creating lots of chances and banging in goals. Hit a really bad patch with about 8 games to go, but I was challenging for the league and in the semis of the European Cup so I suspect that was more to do with the pressure of the situation than the tactics not working (besides, we got back to winning ways enough to win 4-0 on the last day of the season and finish 2nd). Anyway, I think this could work really well and will be testing it over the new season, now that my players have settled into it. Will come back with more results in due course.

[Terk]

Right, I'm always loved the Xmas Tree formation, and particularly Ancelotti's use of it at Milan, so I'm on board to try and get this working awesomely in FM. I've chosen to go with Celtic, so I have decent players, generally weaker league opposition but will come up against much, much stronger teams in Europe. Normally when I create a tactic I like to get the defence working how I want it first, then build the attack, but I'm going the other way round this time, so I haven't fiddled with many defensive settings.

This tactic is still in its very, very early stages and I haven't fiddled with many of the advanced settings yet, my hope is that through discussion in this thread I can build and tweak this into something very good.

Right, onwards. Firstly, I've done a lot of wheeling and dealing over the summer so the squad is very different to the one Celtic start with (17 players brought in, 19 sold). My basic set up is

However, Crosas is currently injured for a couple of months, so Landry N'Guemo is playing the defensive CM role for now.

GK - Defend

DR - Full Back (Support)

DL - Full Back (Support)

DC - Central Defender (Defend)

DC - Central Defender (Defend)

MCr - Central Midfielder (Support)

MCc - Ball Winning Midfielder (Defend)

MCl - Central Midfielder (Attack)

AMCr - Inside Forward (Attack)

AMCl - Trequartista (Attack)

ST - Complete Forward (Attack)

The philosophy is set to fluid, the strategy to attack. The only basic playing style instruction I've changed is to change closing down to 'Press more'. So that's the basic set up I've been working with, I've also taken advice from this thread and asked the front three to only take long shots rarely. Onto the games.

The overview of the few games I've played so far is,

I'll end this post now and go more in depth into the games and how the tactic is working and not working in my next post, coming in a few minutes.

[Terk]

Anderlecht 1-3 Celtic (CL Qualifier)

OK, we'd drawn 2-2 at Celtic Park in the first leg using the FM default Xmas Tree formation. This was the first game in which I implemented the settings seen in the above post. Firstly, possession. We absolutely dominated it with 63% and we had a a 72% pass completion rate and carved out 13 shots on goal, so it looks like we put our dominance to good use.

This is how the move for the first goal started. At this point I'm a little worried that dos Santos and Matic and McGeady and Brown appear to be almost standing on top of each other. But Milevskyi is occupying the attentions of both a central defender and their assigned holding midfielder.

McManus played the free kick to Dixon (#3) who in turned played a quick pass to dos Santos. Things are looking a little better. Matic is free for a short pass and Milevskyi has pulled away from his markers and is running into space. McGeady has made a forward run and is now marked by two Anderlecht players as their #6 spots the danger from Milevskyi and begins to move towards him.

dos Santos played a ball for Milevskyi to run onto down the left and then got on his bike and into the box. What pleased me here was that Matic's run towards the area occupies their #7 and leaves no one looking after Landry N'Guemo (#6). Everyone else is marked, so Milevskyi cuts the ball back to N'Guemo.

Anyone can see here that N'Guemo's inevitable shot is likely to be blocked, but the attacking principle of the tactic means that we have four players in the box waiting for a rebound. Lo and behold, N'Guemo's shot is blocked but McGeady is first onto the loose ball and batters it into the top corner.

N'Guemo was sent off early in the second half in this game, Anderlecht grabbed an equaliser on 74 minutes before McGeady poached a second with ten minutes left and then we got an injury time clincher from a corner. There were a lot of fouls conceded by both sides in this game.

[Terk]

Hearts 2 - 2 Celtic (SPL)

As I've said, I've barely touched the defensive settings other than to assign basic roles, so let's see what problems we've got defensively. Right from the start you can see that Hearts have a man free at the back post. I know you can't mark everyone, but Darren Barr (#32) is in a dangerous position for me.

The throw in is taken short to McGowan, can you see what happens yet? Barr still hasn't been picked up at the back post and there's the simplest of tasks.

McGowan takes that simple task, crosses to the back post and the covering defender can't get across quickly enough to stop Barr heading Hearts into the lead. Admittedly it was a good header, off the inside of the post to leave Hart no chance, but still, Boooooooo.

In this game again the basic stats were good. 59% possession, a 72% pass completion rate and 15 shots on goal, but we came away from it with only a point. As I told the players; disappointing.

[Terk]

So there's one example of good play, one example of bad. I could go on for hours here, but I'll not. What I have noticed with the tactic so far is that, when we get into the attacking third of the pitch, we're doing very well. The full backs are getting crosses in, we often have a man free in the penalty box simply due to the numbers that we get in there on a regular basis. However, the middle third of the pitch can often be a bit congested with, as shown in the Anderlecht post, too many players in similar starting positions.

In defensive matters, we're too easy a target for the opposition to attack down the flanks. The full back on the overlap past the winger has caused us a lot of problems so far. I'm not entirely sure how to fix this one, to be honest, so an suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Overall though, I think there's a solid basis for a tactic and something that I can hopefully get to work very well, although there is a lot of work to be done yet. I'll keep reporting back on how I'm doing and how tweaks and such effect it. In the mean time, how are you lot getting on with your Xmas Trees?

[isuckatfm]

.

In defensive matters, we're too easy a target for the opposition to attack down the flanks. The full back on the overlap past the winger has caused us a lot of problems so far. I'm not entirely sure how to fix this one, to be honest, so an suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Can you upload some pkms?

The reason I ask is with the settings you have the high D Line should theoretically help to prevent this if the FB can get on the winger and slow him down long enough to allow the zonal shifting and the outside MC to come across. Had a quick little mess and that was typically what happened so am curious to see why it isn't happening for you.

I woould also have a look at your AMC,L as a Treq. This means 1 closing down so on his side with the high D Line and high closing down settings in general what is possible (again I cannot replicate exactly what happens in your matches) is your left MC will drop quite close to the back line (mentality not a major factor but zonal loose marking setting might contribute) and if he gravitates towards a deeper striker then a little bit of interplay may lead to your FB going to close down in scenarios where the AMC,L should be trying to do so (when the MC,L is caught too far away to trigger the close down decision). So your FB gets drawn towards their FB leaving a winger unmarked behind.

I would look very closely at whether or not the low closing down is actually proving useful in terms of the AMC,L finding room in transitions to link up counter attacks. That TC setting seem okay 'in theory' but doesn't work so well in the match engine (just my opinion of course). Having any player (other than an aggressive striker) on 1 closing down tends to mess up your defending shape as other players run past him to close down ballcarriers. If he is in a spot on central position it might not be such an issue (if he were an AMC for example he might drop back and occupy space that the other midfielders leave when they go to do his pressing work for him) but when he is positioned where you have him positioned and pressing the flanks is key to defending against the 442, then him just standing still while your FB or MC,L goes to close down an opposition FB might not be such a good thing.

[Jambo98]

Anyone still trying this formation on FM11?

I created a similar shape in my Sheff Wed game, first season starting in league 1. The only difference was that i have moved the outer MC into wide areas, giving the shape below:

(further tested the tactic with benfica to see if it worked with bigger teams)

The original concept was to have a big strong striker dropping deep and allowing the 2 AMC to go beyond him. Ideally the SC coming deep drags out one of the centre backs, and if both AMC go beyond the remaining centre back will be out numbered. Behind that i had a real worry that 3 narrow MC would leave my fullbacks very exposed, particularly in league 1 where 442 is the norm. The back 4 was set up fairly standard, i prefer stopper/cover personally and also use a sweeper keeper always (find if not, the keeper never comes out for any long ball, even if he is 80% fav).

With Sheff Wed i had huge success, after an initial 4 or 5 games where the team had to gel and get used to the tactic (lots of new signings) i went on a run of 20 consecutive wins in all competitions (22 wins out of 23 actually!). In the Benfica test i only went 12 games into the season but 11 wins out of 12 (including beating Sporting away). Also won the supercup v Porto.

However i quickly found that i had to change the original concept. With a deep lying forward on support, he just was not involved enough in the game and never in the box, so ended up changing him to attack (but staying as deep lying forward). This brought more goals and involvement.

Despite the success i still have a number of questions around how to best set this tactic up.

1) What is the best way to have the "front 3" play? I still love my original idea of one coming deep and the other 2 going beyond but stuggled to impliment it.

2) how to get the best out of the wide players (i have them set as wide midfielders)? I had inconistency with them, a few goals and some assists, but ratings not always great and sometimes they drift out of games

3) Should the MC move back to DMC and play as anchor man? never like leaving a "hole" in the MC position, but the AI plays a 442 diamond often which leaves the same hole.

Interested in any thoughts!