Tactical Challenge

[causeforconcern]

Evening lads,

After spending the last couple of nights perusing the forums (specifically this tactical one) I've noticed a fairly obvious trend in FM players. Namely the choice of tactics and the team using those said tactics. Now there is nothing wrong with taking over Man City, Chelsea, Real Madrid etc and using the newest 'diablo' style tactic found on this or a similar forum. After all it's your game and you should enjoy it anyway you see fit. However, I thought it would be a nice idea to get a few of you out of your comfort zones and try something slightly different.

Basically the idea I had (not saying it hasn't been thought up before because I'm sure it has) would be to get a number of people to sign up on this thread with the task of taking a mid-table side in one of the 'big' leagues for a season. The catch is we'd all be given each a tactic that we'd have to use for that one season. We'd work out who gets what tactic by using either a random number generator or by convincing my lovely girlfriend to draw the names out of a hat. I'll outline a few of the rules that I thought we could use below but they are by no means a definite as I'd like your input also. The point of this exercise is mainly for fun but also I think it would definitely bring to light some of the lesser and little used tactics on FM.

Now if I recall correctly there are 23 set tactics that come with FM10. What I'd like to do is have those 23 tactics drawn one by one with each participant drawn at the same time. If by chance there are more than 23 people interested then the tactics will go back in the hat and be drawn again. This way it will be possible to have two or more people using the same tactic. You may adjust any of the settings, team or otherwise, as long as you don't move the position of any of the players. Not much point in being drawn a 5-4-1 if you're going to move them into a 4-4-2 is there? Also I'd like to propose only one transfer in per window. The idea being we'd all be playing with roughly the same team that way at the end of the challenge we can compare tactics easier.

As for what team we should be I was thinking Napoli. Mainly because of the distribution of players- Napoli are one of the few teams that have wingbacks and a sweeper option which would help the fortunate/unfortunate person that managed to draw a formation with those positions in it. Also Napoli are a decent enough side they can actually win Serie A in the right competent hands which adds a bit of a challenge among the more experienced of us.

Let me know if you're keen below and I'll add you to the list. Also any new ideas or team suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[UAF_85]

Good idea, ill be interested

[JEinchy]

Sign me up. This sounds quite interesting.

I'd like to recommend Genoa as a team as well. Almost identical to Napoli in the sense that they have a natural sweeper (Bocchetti) and wing backs (Criscito, Mesto and Rossi). I do believe both Genoa and Napoli play the same formations in real life.

[UAF_85]

Why dont I suggest Athletic Bilboa from Spain as a backup team for anyone willing to go the extra mile (can only sign Basque players lol)

[KrisL]

il try this

[taylorsmen]

Sounds like a great 1 season challenge,count me in please.

[arthas]

i am interested. I suggest birmingham

[taylorsmen]

i am interested. I suggest birmingham

I think he was doing the challenge with napoli only from what i read in his post.

[causeforconcern]

As a lot of us play in the Premier League I thought it would be a nice change of pace, literally, to play in the Serie A. Genoa is a good idea and I was going to suggest them too but they have higher expectations than Napoli which may make it hard with the more difficult tatics to manage.

I'll leave this up over the weekend and if we have an ample group by Monday we can get started.

Also I'm not sure if I made it clear in the original post but we'd all be in charge of the same team.

UAF 85- Athletic are a really fun team to manage but I'm not sure they have a decent enough distrubution of necessary players. I'll have a look later on today though.

[JEinchy]

Genoa are predicted to finish 10th on 10.3, with the board expecting a top-half finish. Saying that, their squad has enough talent to get into the top 7 quite easily. But ultimately, the decision is yours.

[causeforconcern]

Oh, for some reason I thought they were predicted sixth. If it's 10th I think they will probably be the team we'll go for.

[causeforconcern]

I just had a quick look and Genoa are predicted to come sixth on 10.3 so maybe Napoli would be better suited still.

[taylorsmen]

I'm looking forward to this little challenge,hopefully enough people show interest for it to get off the ground.

[causeforconcern]

We have six so far so hopefully at least double that by the end of the weekend.

[taylorsmen]

Come on guys,show some interest in this challenge.

[jsdceltic]

Sign me up please.

[SUCK IT]

Im up for it mate. Sign me Up

[causeforconcern]

Okay, well we have eight so far so we may as well get started. If anyone still wants to join let me know and I'll randomly draw you a tactic

First I'll just go over the basic rules

TEAM

I've had a good look at the alternatives but I think Napoli is still the best option due to the distribution of players and the quality of said players. Expectations aren't too high either which should hopefully delay our sacking if we get stuck with a difficult tactic.

PLAYERS

Only ONE transfer in per transfer window (unlimited out). This is basically so we all have roughly the same team to work with. This is so we know your teams performance is due to tactics and not due to buying a brand new team of superstars. Also I think we should try only spend what we have i.e. no puttting down 100 million pound bids to be paid off over forty-eight months. Use your own common sense with this one really. If you sell, say, Lavezzi for 10 million over forty-eight months then it's probably reasonable to buy someone at that rate too.

TACTICS

Anything goes as long as you stick to the formation you are given. Change player roles, team instructions or change it too 'classic' mode as long as you're using your original tactical shape.

Right, the draw. Names below, tactic spoilered.

UAF85

4-4-1-1. Not too bad, maybe a possession based Catenaccio style tactic?

JEinchy

4-3-1-2. Good tactic for the players at your disposal. Hamsik has the potential to dominate from that AM spot.

KrisL

4-3-3. Great shape for the players we have. Should be fun getting Denis, Quagliarella and Lavezzi working together.

taylorsmen

4-2-3-1 Asymmetric. This shape can be awesome if you get it right. Also feel free to mirror the tactic i.e instead of right wing and left mid have right mid and left wing.

arthas

4-2-2-2. Probably the biggest challange of all of us I reckon. Napoli don't have a huge amount of central midfield players so you transfer(s) are going to have to be good. Also not the easiest tactic to get working either. Good luck with this one!

jsdceltic

3-4-3. This looks like a tactic for conceding lots but scoring more. I think if you get this right it could be a really fun tactic.

SUCK IT

3-2-3-2. Well someone was going to draw a sweeper formation and you were the lucky one. Will be tricky but you have the players for it. After trying to get a libero going for a longtime I'll be interested to see how you go.

causeforconcern

5-3-2. I've never even seen anyone use a tactic with a flat back five let alone use one myself so this should be an interesting challenge. Again we have the players for it so hopefully I can get it functioning. Little worried about my isolated strikers though.

UPDATES

Would be really cool if everyone lets us know how they are doing, where they are struggling, what they are doing right etc. Apart from the, hopefull, fun we'll have this thread is about looking at different formations and trying to get them to function. Hopefully we can share tips, transfers etc

Anyway I think that just about covers it. Let me know if I've missed anything!

Good luck!

[causeforconcern]

Forgot to add something

LOANS

In addition to your one transfer you can also bring in ONE loan. If you are struck down with a ridiculous run of injuries or just don't have enough players in a certain position then you may loan in more. I think we should try aim to bring in as few players as possible however.

[doulnut]

count me in please

[Cavalcanti]

This sounds like a really fun idea, count me in please. Hope I get one of the more unusual formations, i've been looking to break out of my usual '4-3-3 when managing a good team, 4-5-1 when managing drooling simpletons' plan.

[causeforconcern]

Okay I've just completed my five pre season games using my 5-3-2 tactic. Frankly it's gone much better than expected. Admittedly I've played no one near decent but even so I believe this is defintely a tactic with some promise.

Transfer

My one transfer was surprisingly one Gilberto Silva. Basically I wasn't all that impressed with Gargano who was my only decent option as a defensive minded midfielder so I bought in an old head. Pretty much exactly what I wanted- good defensive and mental stats combined with some much needed height and power.

Current Lineup

GK De Sanctis

RB Maggio/Zuniga (not much between these two although I think Maggio just pips it) Set to Wingback/Support

LB Dossena Wingback/Support

CB Cannavaro Centre Back/Defend

CB Campagnaro Ball playing centre back/Defend

CB Aronica Ball playing centre back/Defend

CM Gilberto Silva Central Mid/Defend

CM Hamsik Central Mid/Attack

CM Cigarini Central Mid/Attack

ST Quagliarella Deep lying striker/Attack

ST Lavezzi Poacher/Attack

Pretty happy with that set up at the moment. Santacroce, Denis and Hoffer are great options on the bench. I'd like to bring in another midfielder on loan but the only decent option there seems to be Possebon who is average at best.

Results

Reserves 6-0

Cavese 3-0

Frosinone 2-0

Benevento 3-0

Como 6-0

Again happy enough with that.

Tactic Pros and Cons

Pros

+ Quagliarella. Nine goals from five matches is impressive but the quality of goals have been even better.

+ Defence. No goals conceded is obviously a good sign but the fact that none of the teams have even come close is more satisfying.

+ The fullbacks. Looking very impressive going forward and in defence. Getting in good goal scoring positions too.

+ Lavezzi. Only three goals from the five games but causes absolute panic with his pace and ability running with the ball.

Cons

- Hamsik. Is arguably the best player on the team but I can't seem to get him as involved as I'd like. He's still averaging 7.88 but isn't the attacking threat I had hoped. Will fiddle with his settings if things don't improve

- Possesion. This has always been important to me regardless of results. Our possession stats have been sitting at about 50% which is okay but I'd like to dominate the kind of teams we've played so far. This may be down to the fact I am playing more of a counter-attacking game though. I'll know if this will be an issue when we play the big boys of Serie A.

Other than that I've been really surprised with how well this tactic is playing out. I'll update again mid season and let you know if it will be good enough to comepete against decent sides.

[causeforconcern]

count me in please

Doulnut

3-3-2-2. The other sweeper tactic. Again might be a tough one to get working but you have good players for it. You and SUCK IT should bounce some ideas off each other.

[causeforconcern]

This sounds like a really fun idea, count me in please. Hope I get one of the more unusual formations, i've been looking to break out of my usual '4-3-3 when managing a good team, 4-5-1 when managing drooling simpletons' plan.

Cavalcanti

3-6-1. Haha well you certainly got what you asked for. I have no idea how I'd go about this. Retraining Quagliarella as an AM is probably essential. Like me your one transfer will most likely be a defensive midfielder. Should be a fun one though.

[Cavalcanti]

So then, i've started my game, ready for the inevitable pain that comes with attempting to take on one of the most prestigious leagues in the world with a formation as patently unwise as the 3-6-1.

The Formation

My first-choice lineup so far.

The most striking feature of the 3-6-1 is obviously the gigantic midfield chasm separating the front 3 from the massed defensive ranks, something that clearly needs to be minimised in order for the attack to have any service at all. I'm hoping this will be sorted by playing Hamsik in a AMC Trequartista role (something I play in pretty much every formation, but especially useful here), dropping back to link up with the two DMs - both encouraged to go forward and bridge the gap to varying degrees, since the defence is solid enough already. The wing backs should provide a certain amount of width, providing they have the stamina to cope with opposition wide players running their legs down into bloody stumps.

Other than that, it's fairly simple - ST Advanced Forward supported by an AMC Inside Forward up front, two-Centre-backs-and-a-spare-Sweeperesque-bloke at the back, at least for the two-man attacks i've faced so far.

Transfers

I've used my transfer, and a possibly-unwise lump of my transfer budget, to land Jan Vertonghen from Ajax. I badly needed a better DM, and he's also a better DC than most of my options (a good thing, as my first injury sees my first-choice Sweeperesque bloke out until the end of the preseason). I'm also hoping to loan someone as cover for AM, definitely the weakest position.

So far...

I've played my first two preseason friendlies, against my U20s and reserves, both ending in 2-0 wins, but completely different games.

Against the U20s, the team looked witless - the midfield chasm was a definite problem, leaving Lavezzi completely unserviced and badly-supported when he finally got the ball. Both goals came from set-pieces, a penalty and a corner, not at all a good sign. The one positive was the obvious defensive firmness of the formation, as to be expected from a tactic so heavily rooted in my own half.

The Reserves game, however, showed a lot more promise. A few tweaks to the tactic helped bridge the gap a little more, and Lavezzi got a lot more service from the drifting Quagliarella and Hamsik, the score only being kept respectable by a man-of-the-match performance by the reserve keeper. The wing-backs rocketed up and down the pitch admirably, albeit against less-than-stellar opposition, contributing both to a rock-solid defensive display and a pleasantly potent offensive display. I can see the combination of the deep-lying DMs and the roaming Hamsik feeding Quagliarella and Lavezzi producing some quality passing moves and lovely goals.

So far, no real test of how the formation will fare in proper Serie A play, though. I've got a friendly against Porto scheduled soon, which will be the tactic's first good opposition, and i'm quietly confident, especially on the defensive end. The solidity of the formation's back line, along with the AMCs tracking back to put 9 men behind the ball regularly, shows a lot of potential for frustrating teams and winning points on good defensive displays. If the support at the other end of the pitch is good enough, I can see this working out surprisingly well...

[causeforconcern]

^^ Excellent write up. I think you probably had one of, if not the hardest, formation to use. I think a player like Vertonghen was actually a wise buy- good player and versatile which will help given the limit on player purchases. Definitely intrigued how you go against Porto.

[SuSSex_GuNNer]

This thread looks extremely interesting and challenging........so sign me up.

This would be great to try and build a formation which is something i have never tried on any Football Manager Game.

[causeforconcern]

This thread looks extremely interesting and challenging........so sign me up.

This would be great to try and build a formation which is something i have never tried on any Football Manager Game.

SuSSex GuNNer

3-4-3 Diamond. Interesting one this. Again looks like a we-can-score-more-than-you type tactic. Will be interested to see who you bring in.

[Cavalcanti]

In other news, I hate Belgium.

Porto friendly just got a lot harder...

[causeforconcern]

I am by no means a tactical expert by any means but I think I've somehow stumbled on to something special here with this formation. I'm yet to concede in seven games and just comfortably beat AC Milan 2-0.

Also Cavalcanti you should be okay up front with Denis and Hoffer there but two defensive mids out is pretty rough. You need a loanee DM/AM.

Edit: Damn you Miccoli! Ruined my clean sheet run with a riduculous half volley from 30+ yards. Pretty impressive strike though.

[taylorsmen]

Just seen what my tactic is (Y)

Will start this afternoon and report back,btw it's actually my favourite formation,lucky me

[taylorsmen]

Update.

Friendly fixtures.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2167/friendlyfixtures.jpg

Formation.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1525/formationl.jpg

I got through the friendlies without any injuries thankfully,now for the cup game.

And the player i bought was Diego Buonanotte.

I'll update every 5 or 6 games.

[Jeztah]

This is fascinating thread. I would also like to join if it is still possible.

[roo-naldo]

If there's any spaces left, I'd love to join too.

[taylorsmen]

Update*

10 games in and doing reasonable,got hammered by Inter but that was expected i suppose.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/9685/10gamesin.jpg

My main 2 scorers so far are Hamsik with 6 goals and Quagliarella with 9 goals.

[colonel99]

sign me up please

[causeforconcern]

Jeztah

4-1-2-1-2. A popular tactic on here and one you should be able to get working without too much trouble. A new midfielder in the CM or DM position is probably a must though.

roo-naldo

4-4-2 Diamond. Haven't used this shape myself but have seen others do it with success. With Hamsik/Quagliarella/Lavezzi in the attacking slots you should have no problems getting the goals.

colonel99

5-4-1. At first looks to be a very defensive shape but after using a failry similar formation myself for this challange I can assure you that it can definitely work. With five at the back your fullbacks should be given a fairly attacking license. The bad thing about this shape is you are only going to be able to use one of your strikers at a time.

[SUCK IT]

Will get some updates for you tommorow causeforconcern.

[colonel99]

how do i take the spoiler off to see my formation. thanks in advance.

[SUCK IT]

Highlight it mate

[dburns647]

count me in mate

[colonel99]

thanks again

[causeforconcern]

count me in mate

dburns647

4-6-0. Oh dear. I hope you like a challange dburns. Your transfer and loan signing is going to be vital if you're going to have any chance of getting this off the ground. Will be very interested in seeing how this one plays out

[causeforconcern]

eight tactics left

[dburns647]

dburns647

4-6-0. Oh dear. I hope you like a challange dburns. Your transfer and loan signing is going to be vital if you're going to have any chance of getting this off the ground. Will be very interested in seeing how this one plays out

probably the worst possible tactic

[dburns647]

eight tactics left

any chance of a swap na i'll stick with the classical 4-6-0

[dburns647]

The formation

Transfers

Bought Simon Vukcevic + loaned in Diarra from Real Madrid

[causeforconcern]

any chance of a swap na i'll stick with the classical 4-6-0

It may look bad but I think almost all tactics are capable of being made functional if given the chance. Also look at it like this; you probably got the most interesting tactic of us all!

Edit: Great signings!

[dburns647]

It may look bad but I think almost all tactics are capable of being made functional if given the chance. Also look at it like this; you probably got the most interesting tactic of us all!

Edit: Great signings!

it is certainly interesting playing without a striker but the two wingers are inside forwards so should still get men forward.

thanks, never had vukcevic before

[causeforconcern]

Mini Update

The wheels have fallen off slightly, lost my last two games to Cagliari (1-0, 93rd minute goal) and Atalanta (1-0). Defence is still looking good it's just that my strikers have forgotton how to score. I'm not too worried as we are still making plenty enough opportunities. Biggest issue at this point is getting Cigarini and Hamsik involved more. The latter I have set to a very attacking role but he just doesn't seem to ever get in goalscoring positions, which is extremely disappointing as he's a great finisher. I've currently set him to Central Mid/Attack but maybe I should change this to advanced playmaker. Never used one before so I'm not sure this will help.