Why are there hidden attributes?

[lam]

..................Alex Ferguson, for example, knows how professional all of his players are, why don't I?

Once you have managed your team for 10 years or so, you too will know how proffessional they are.

Didn't he have problems with Nani mouthing off? I guess now, he knows how proffessional he is too.

LAM

[swisso]

Putting FM aside for a minute, are we able to assess someones personality and traits by glancing at them? or even following them for a day? You can't quantify human behaviour so easily and you certaintly can't define a human after a few days.

It takes time to build up a clear picture of someones personality, situations arise which he handles well, or doesn't, and you can gradually build a picture over time of his attitude and commitment. If he's a slow developing player, i'll know his Professionalism is low, if he's demanding a move away to a bigger club, his Ambition is high, if he has no intention of leaving me, he's Loyal.

This is the way FM implements it and this is the way i'd like it to stay.

[Ezequiel_Lavezzi]

Im of a different point of view.

Every attribute should be hidden and replaced with an indepth description of the player- merely for the hardcore fan.

I remember a sim a few years back that would say things like "Player is fantastic at striking a ball, but is poor in the air. Despite being poor in the air, he is still known as an extreemly potent striker, and has made a name for himself at getting past his man with ease and scoring some fantastic and spectacular goals."

[Elrithral]

Putting FM aside for a minute, are we able to assess someones personality and traits by glancing at them? or even following them for a day? You can't quantify human behaviour so easily and you certaintly can't define a human after a few days.

It takes time to build up a clear picture of someones personality, situations arise which he handles well, or doesn't, and you can gradually build a picture over time of his attitude and commitment. If he's a slow developing player, i'll know his Professionalism is low, if he's demanding a move away to a bigger club, his Ambition is high, if he has no intention of leaving me, he's Loyal.

This is the way FM implements it and this is the way i'd like it to stay.

And this all becomes apparanat after 3 matches worth of scouting :confused:

This is all very true, nobody is arguing otherwise, but nobody is answering why we should know other attributes after a single look. After 2-3 matches worth of scouting, 270 minutes of football at the most, we will know their strength, agility, influence, determination, long shots, heading etc etc.

Nevermind the fact that in those three matches, the player may not strike a single long shot or head the ball, nevermind form or confidence, nevermind match practice etc, we'll still get a very specific number, giving us a very specific idea of their proficiency in each attribute.

I.e. the player i'm scouting is a winger, averaging between 5 and 6 and suffering from personal problems. In the three matches he plays he only completes 50% of his attempted passes, doesn't compelte any crosses, never heads the ball, never attempts a long shot and never gets the opportunity to show off his "strength".

Why do I get a perfect report from my scout? My scout gives me accurate reading for each attribute, even though he a) didn't witness them at all or b) didn't witness the players true ability?

So, until someone can tell me why I know a players finishing ability after "following them for a day", but I can't know their injury proneness and can answer the above questions, i'll take the oft mooted and oft rubbish, realism answer with a pinch of salt.

Also, why are people against the "unmask/mask" hidden attribtues option?

[Neopherus]

I don't think either of you have actually read this thread.

I did read the thread, I just should have quoted the post I was responding to..

[Freindly lemon]

I think it is to make it more realistic.

[Just-Wool]

I don't think either of you have actually read this thread.

Why do you say that?

I am just saying that hidden attributes are best hidden. There is no point in making them visible because your scouts tell you what you need to know before you sign them, your coaches tell you on the coach reports and you can see for yourself when playing a game if your players are good under pressure or not.

All making the hidden attributes visible would do is cater for those who sign their players, set their tactic and go on holiday.

[Elrithral]

Why do you say that?

I am just saying that hidden attributes are best hidden. There is no point in making them visible because your scouts tell you what you need to know before you sign them, your coaches tell you on the coach reports and you can see for yourself when playing a game if your players are good under pressure or not.

All making the hidden attributes visible would do is cater for those who sign their players, set their tactic and go on holiday.

Because you've just said the same thing that countless other people have said and ignored the arguments countering it. I notice that you still haven't attempted to answer my queries in my last post, but just wheeled out a carbon copy of 50% of the posts in this thread :confused:

[Just-Wool]

Fine, I will play your game:

And this all becomes apparanat after 3 matches worth of scouting :confused:

This is all very true, nobody is arguing otherwise, but nobody is answering why we should know other attributes after a single look. After 2-3 matches worth of scouting, 270 minutes of football at the most, we will know their strength, agility, influence, determination, long shots, heading etc etc.

Nevermind the fact that in those three matches, the player may not strike a single long shot or head the ball, nevermind form or confidence, nevermind match practice etc, we'll still get a very specific number, giving us a very specific idea of their proficiency in each attribute.

I.e. the player i'm scouting is a winger, averaging between 5 and 6 and suffering from personal problems. In the three matches he plays he only completes 50% of his attempted passes, doesn't compelte any crosses, never heads the ball, never attempts a long shot and never gets the opportunity to show off his "strength".

Why do I get a perfect report from my scout? My scout gives me accurate reading for each attribute, even though he a) didn't witness them at all or b) didn't witness the players true ability?

So, until someone can tell me why I know a players finishing ability after "following them for a day", but I can't know their injury proneness and can answer the above questions, i'll take the oft mooted and oft rubbish, realism answer with a pinch of salt.

Also, why are people against the "unmask/mask" hidden attribtues option?

The reason for this is 3 matches worth of scouting and your scout talking to people at the club about the player. You don't think a scout just goes to a match and watches then leaves do you? He will talk to his contacts at the players club finding out if the performance was typical, if he has any strengths and weaknesses, his personality in training etc etc. He might even go and see him in training if the club allows it. I get the feeling your view on football scouts is rather simplistic.

I am against hidden attributes being shown because of what I said before, it will only cater for holiday managers and would be rather pointless especially as you get this information from other means anyway, you just need to actually do something to find them.

[RBKalle]

* Scouts DO report about a player's inconsistency and/or injury proness, and also about his personality. So, in a way, you get a good hint about a player's main hidden attributes.

So there is a way to "see" if a player is consistent, professional etc

* In "Personal" you get a decent overview on the player's character and attitude.

* Assuming you're playing in a league you're familiar with, you won't need to scout a player to find out he's a troublemaker... Ditto for well-known international players.

* If you play LLM (or a random game elsewhere) you're probably dedicated enough to use your scouts, so it's all in the reports.

The only hidden attribute that should be visible is Dirtiness, but you can kinda guess it by looking at his card stats.

[Elrithral]

The reason for this is 3 matches worth of scouting and your scout talking to people at the club about the player. You don't think a scout just goes to a match and watches then leaves do you? He will talk to his contacts at the players club finding out if the performance was typical, if he has any strengths and weaknesses, his personality in training etc etc. He might even go and see him in training if the club allows it. I get the feeling your view on football scouts is rather simplistic.

Not at all, I just didn't think training and talking with contacts was worth mentioning because it's such a tenuous excuse that I didn't think anyone would seriously use it. I mean, a scout can give 100% accuarte readings for each ability because, over the space of 1 week, maybe 2, they have chatted with chums about a player, watched him in training and watched him in a match, seriously? My example of a player lacking form and confidence seem to have been ignored, understandably

Still waiting for a serious answer to my questions....

[Just-Wool]

You got a serious answer, which you basically discarded as nonsense so forgive me and a lot of other forumites if you don't get any replies.

[lance101]

I agree with Elrithral here... what is the clear criteria of what can be found by the scouts right now? Observability?? Increase of difficulty of the game? Or just whatever happens to be the way FM has only been?