Natural Fitness + Stamina = Most underrated attributes?

When choosing players, I have a personal preference towards the more physically strong. The first attribute I look at is natural fitness and then stamina. Of course I care about pace too, but the other two seem very important to me.

According to this article explaining player attributes on Football Manager:

NATURAL FITNESS

How fit a player is as standard - his base level of fitness. It affects how many games he is likely to be able to perform to peak physical fitness in before becoming noticeably tired and susceptible to injury.

STAMINA

Stamina is a player's ability to endure high-level physical activity for a long period of time. With the demands placed on a player over a nine month season, players with high attribute ratings for Stamina will be able to perform at their top levels for longer. It ties in directly with Natural Fitness.

The importance of Stamina cannot be underestimated – particularly if you play an effort-intensive style such as Closing Down, Gung-Ho or have players set to making lots of forward runs. You'll find that if your team has a low level of Stamina in general, you will tend to concede goals late in the game. You have been warned...

My Questions

1) Does natural fitness only matter until the player is used in a game?

2) Is there a way to increase a player's natural fitness or is it one of those attributes that it is what it is?

3) How exactly stamina works during a match? Maybe there's some kind of simple formula that lowers a player's condition percentage as playing time goes by based on stamina, work rate, perhaps aggression and bravery?

4) How much does condition affect performance during a match? If a player becomes tired and his condition drops to 60%, does it mean that his performance will be at 60% of his skills? For the sake of this example, let's assume morale is beyond great and doesn't affect his skill set.

5) If a player has low stamina, is it better that he also has low work rate? To minimize getting tired too fast that is.

6) If a tired player means he's more likely to get injured, how much can it actually increase his injury proneness during a match?

Let's say it's a player with an injury proneness attribute of 10 and playing condition down to 50%.

Thanks for reading and hoping to get some insights from you

I tend to think of natural fitness like an injury proneness (in that if it's low then they could get injured a lot)

but also I guess it could mean how likely they are to keep going, as per the saying "he's a natural athlete" or "an athletic build" meaning a higher value

I value stamina a LOT, due to my high-pressing style of play

1) Natural fitness probably helps with recovery and the likes, as well as the condition diminishing less during the game

2) I've seen it change marginally, but not enough to go to the next level (so seen it move from 10.3 to 10.4 with Defour iirc, but not monitored it long term)

3) Higher stamina means his condition would go down slower, so you'll be less likely to sub them off due to tiredness

my main creative MC had around 12 stamina, could barely last 60 minutes in competitive games [with over 65% condition]

my DM had 19 stamina, and he could last the game out (I know, different roles, but still)

4) I tend to believe that condition relates like you said it does (condition at 60 means that 20 finishing becomes 12 [20*60%]) which can lead to missed chances - not too sure on it's validity though

5) Work rate means how willing they are to chase (or get back), so I guess it would help if this value is similar to his stamina (you don't want your AMC running the whole way back to defend, but you may want your DM to)

6) I'd say that players are more likely to get injuries when they're unfit, which is why you see a LOT of niggles in preseason [because they don't have that fitness base] and late on in games when they're run down

How much effect that it has is unknown (because you're still likely to get injuries when in peak fitness) but probably increases with less fitness

edit:

as for player prioritisation, I'll look at the stats for the role first, before looking at their physicals (no point in signing a 20 finishing striker if he's got no stamina - maybe as a bench option though)

for youth though, i'll look for natural fitness and their basic stats to see whether they're worth bringing in (as well as the scout report, they've got to show something)

I have an opposing viewpoint on these attributes. I look for a minimum of 10 in stamina so that I don't have to sub the player after 50-60 minutes. Higher stamina is a bonus, but I prioritize nearly all other attributes. If I have to rest a player every 3 or 4 matches that's almost a good thing because it forces me to rotate the squad and keep everyone happy.

I typically feel mental attributes are underrated. I sometimes fall for the 15 pace, 15 acceleration, 15 tackling full back without fully appreciating that his decisions and positioning are horrendous.

stamina is how fast your condition drops during a match/training*, natural fitness is how fast you recover % of lost condition after a match/training*.

lower % condition means more chance of injury - if you run 11-14km(av. distance run during a match) then you walk(least threat for an injury) home, there's a higher % that you can trip into your own feet than if you have never run that day, this is after a match, same during a match if you are out of breath you can't react faster enough to avoid an injury as your brain have lower % of O2, there we have an injury...

* - if you put players on heavy training you will notice, that those with low natural fitness can never get 99-100% condition as they can't recover it faster enough and it maxes out at 90%-something

with 2 matches per week, those with low stamina end 90 minutes 70-75% condition, for next match after 3 days they get at most +4-5% per day which is 80-90%, next match is for sure skipped if not injured...which gives you either play them at most 60 minutes per match or play 90 minutes, next match backup play as reserve for 30 minutes.

When choosing players, I have a personal preference towards the more physically strong. The first attribute I look at is natural fitness and then stamina. Of course I care about pace too, but the other two seem very important to me.

Pace is only really important at the extreme values. There's very little difference between a top speed of 12, 13, 14, 15 in-game, and once you factor in other modifiers (stamina to determine whether he's tired, dribbling & technique if he's on the ball, aggression and workrate for effort etc.) you're unlikely to notice a difference.

I generally ignore the attribute unless it's below 10 or above 17. Anything within that range is too influenced by other attributes and factors to matter.

In terms of the most important attributes, regardless of a player's position or role I don't overlook Decisions and Concentration. You can make tactical adjustments to help players that are physically or technically lacking in certain areas, but a player that can't make consistently good choices in a match is always going to be a liability.

I tend to think of natural fitness like an injury proneness (in that if it's low then they could get injured a lot)

but also I guess it could mean how likely they are to keep going, as per the saying "he's a natural athlete" or "an athletic build" meaning a higher value

Injury proneness is governed by the hidden injury proneness stat.

I had thought that it was common-ish wisdom that Natural Fitness and Stamina were two of the most important stats for managers in lower leagues. In my current squads I'm focusing pretty heavily on jumping reach, actually. I'm playing systems that really encourage the opposition to put in crosses and have their GK kick long, so I'm trying to have really excellent headers of the ball in my back 3 and in central midfield. I've just signed a 6'7 centerback from France with 20 Jumping Reach and 15 Heading, so I'm excited to see him nod crosses away for fun (I hope). I guess I also look for players with weird deviant stats. Midfielders with 17+ Finishing, or strikers with high Work Rate and Tackling, stuff that's unusual. In FM2014, I got promoted out of Serie C after signing an otherwise garbage player with 20 Long Shots and 18 Free Kicks.

Copying directly from the manual... -_-

Natural Fitness

How high the player’s natural fitness is. How well he stays fit when injured or not training. This will help to determine how quickly players recover from injury, how well they retain their physical attributes as they go past their peak, and how fast they recover between matches.

And:

Stamina

Stamina is a player’s ability to endure high-level physical activity for a long period of time. With the demands placed on a player over a nine month season, players with high attribute ratings for Stamina will be able to perform at their top levels for longer. It ties in directly with Natural Fitness.

Thanks for your replies everyone

Copying directly from the manual... -_-

Using attribute definitions from the manual is bad? I'd say it's a good thing someone kept excerpts from that older manual (2012 if I'm not mistaken) and combined it with material from another official document of Hints and Tips by Marc Vaughan & Nick Habershon (think that was in 2007, but I may be wrong) because the current online manual on the official website is unusable (sections not expanding, not as much content as it used to include).

Thanks for your replies everyone

Using attribute definitions from the manual is bad? I'd say it's a good thing someone kept excerpts from that older manual (2012 if I'm not mistaken) and combined it with material from another official document of Hints and Tips by Marc Vaughan & Nick Habershon (think that was in 2007, but I may be wrong) because the current online manual on the official website is unusable (sections not expanding, not as much content as it used to include).

No, people don't bother looking at the manual was the point.

That (quoted) was from the 2015 manual.

4. I would think that the only skills affected by low stamina would be determination, work rate, and concentration, not technical skills. Only the skills that affect their desire to move around the pitch.

5. Generally, I don't worry that much about stamina vs. work rate because I look at the system of the team. The system dictates that a low stamina player will not play in a position that requires a high stamina player.

Plus, work rate only decides how much a player is willing to run back. A player is not going to lose a lot of stamina from just running back. If a player has low stamina but high work rate, that is still better than low stamina and low work rate. Just don't make them run forward. Make them stay back all the time and they will put in a good defensive shift for you but you will need a different player to make forward runs and take care of the offense.

Plus, work rate only decides how much a player is willing to run back. A player is not going to lose a lot of stamina from just running back. If a player has low stamina but high work rate, that is still better than low stamina and low work rate. Just don't make them run forward. Make them stay back all the time and they will put in a good defensive shift for you but you will need a different player to make forward runs and take care of the offense.

Pretty much all of this is wrong. One of the core functions of Workrate is to determine how often a player will close down an opponent with the ball, which makes it vital to any sort of pressing system. Tracking back into position after joining attacks is a function of a number of attributes, including but not limited to workrate.

A low workrate player in a defensive role will only put in a "good defensive shift" if you require him to occupy space and cut passing lanes (a perfectly viable approach), but he won't make many tackles or stop attacks without a good system of players around him. Quite simply he doesn't work hard, but rather stands about and takes the lazy option.

Stamina directly effects how fast a player's condition deteriorates during a game, which in turn effects every other mental, technical and physical aspect of a player's performance. A tired player is a poor(er) player.

Don't forget Teamwork - which is the application of the manager's tactical instructions on the pitch.