I think I'm on to something - read if you are new or are struggling with tactics

Hi footy fans and a warm welcome to those whom are not loving FM as much as they wished they were.

As my title says, I think I am onto something. But first I want to give out my disclaimers and my thanks to some inspiration.

Disclaimers:

1. This has only been tested over my last 5 games.

2. This is WIP (work in practice).

3. I do have a decent team (well…. Its Tottenham…. So judge me how you want)

My thanks:

Goes to all those that have braved the forums and posted tons of information and shared what has worked for them.

However, my main thanks goes to ‘The Game’, who’s inspiring post made me think about the game in a different way. And that way, was not to think that I knew it all, but to work with what the game gives me.

Okay…..

I, like a lot of you out there, was seriously struggling with the tactics side of this game. I have read so many posts about successful tactics, that in theory, it should have made me an FM God. But….. for those that have been subject to my hundreds of questions following their posts, they will know that’s clearly not the case.

I sat back and thought how can I be so bad at this and then I came to the conclusion that I was stupid. Well…. That’s just part of it really, but I was stupid because I was ignoring pretty much all the information available to me in game and thinking I knew what I should be doing because I knew more.

Now, the fact is, I really didn’t know what I was doing and I think deep down I knew that. So, my first piece of advice is to you who are struggling, is to accept that AT THIS STAGE you do not know more than the game.

So….. what can I do? where can I start again? where can I work from?………. All these questions had the same answer…… USE THE DEFAULTS.

Wow…… yes, I said it…… I cant believe it, even I had to make sure I was sitting firmly down when I wrote this. Now take a pill and calm down, take some breaths……. Okay, now that you have gotten over the shock let me explain my thoughts behind this.

Once I started thinking about using the defaults logically, things started coming together. I mean, why create default tactics if they are not going to work? Why create so many of them? Now once I had started to think like this. I thought how can I use these tactics with my team.

Well the first game came as a bit of a shock to me as I was heavily pressed back and was 1-0 down pretty soon into the first half. At this point I had another breakdown, I thought it had all been so clear. ‘Use the defaults’…….. that’s what I said to myself, and I was. But, they were not working!

Okay…. So why weren’t they working. I paused the game and thought about it.

There are many definitions of the word default, however there is one in particular that works well here. Okay….. I’ll be honest, I have just searched for this now. I am not intelligent enough to have magically thought of this at the time.

Definition of the word default when linked with computers:

‘a value that a program or operating system assumes, or a course of action that a program or operating system will take, when the user or programmer specifies no overriding value or action.’

The error that I had made, was that I had not given any overriding instructions. Normally, you wouldn’t give any overriding instructions if you actually didn’t know what to give. Hence the reason for a default action. But clearly in this game, we all get information. So this was not the case.

So now the question became, ‘What do I know, that will allow me to give overriding instructions?’

Well….. I get scout reports, match odds AND I can check pitch sizes (through scout reports or through the opposition’s information screen and then the view button in the top right corner…. bet you didn’t know that! Kudos to Ukcrhis for that one).

Now, I don’t know about you, but I think that’s an awful lot of information to be ignoring. I refer you back to my earlier point about me being stupid. Some of you beginning to feel the same way, eh? (far be it for to come out and suggest it openly……just search deep inside and you will find your stupidity waiting for you with a cigar, a glass of brandy and your slippers. So get comfortably with it)

So, armed with information, I was presented with a problem. If I change the default tactics, then its not default anymore. And, yes, that’s absolutely correct. So get over it!

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense that a default tactic would not work on its own in every scenario. It needs input if its to work properly. It can not and will not work everyime against different teams playing on different pitches in different parts of the world. You have to change things. But here is the key…… only change a little bit.

Below are the changes that I have made based on information provided to me through scout reports, match odds and stadium sizes. There is also another key input for information, but I’ll get to that in a minute as its going to be one that so many of you ignore, but its absoloutley key to understand the game mechanics.

Pitch size:

Large or long pitch = Direct passing.

Short or Narrow pitch (but not long) = Short passing.

In between the above = mixed to start with (and I’ll tell you how to read the game and make adjustments in a minute).

I should also note here that your tempo should match your passing style. Slow for short and quicker for direct. There will be more information on this later.

Bookies odds:

Home and you are favourite: Attack

Home and you are not favourite: Normal (unless massively outclassed then its defence)

Away and you are favourite: Normal (unless you are massive favourites then its attack)

Away and you are not favourites: Defence (or normal if its tight odds).

Now there will of course be times where you just want to go for it or times where you want to hold back. The indicators above are simply what has worked for me so far (remember its only been 5 games!!!)

Scout reports:

Generally give you pitch information. If there is none then check yourself. It really does make a massive difference.

It also gives you information about the key players AND who is injured. Look at the key players and decide what you want to do about them. You may be so bold as to man mark them, close them down, tackle hard and show them onto the wrong foot…..thats a little over the top for me. An example for me would be to take off ‘forward runs’ on the relevant wingback if their main man was a winger. It’s a little more subtle and wont mess up the fundamentals of the formation to much. But its your pound, so do what you need to.

Also…. Check out who is injured and more importantly, who has stepped into their spot. Sometimes you might have to wait until the game day to do this as they may change their formation through it. But if they have a large number of injuries then the chances are they are going to have some far weaker players on the field.

Okay, can you see how much information you have. As indicated by ‘The Game’ in his posts:

http://loswonderkids.com/community/index.php?showtopic=2846 his website for full article.

Or

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=107575 for part one here.

And

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=109595 for part two here.

I can not reiterate how important it is to match the passing to the pitch. Once you get a better understand of the formations and how they work and the various settings, please just believe me. Work roughly to my above comments about pitch size and it will be okay.

Now this brings me to the part that excites me most, at least now that I have started translating it onto the pitch.

Assistant manger feedback:

This is where you find out what you are doing wrong. And seriously………..its correct.

Two things that are worth pointing out here is firstly; my Assistant manger, ‘Kevin Bond’, only has a tactical rating of 14, so it does seem that their feedback may work regardless of this stat. Secondly; I set my team passing (apart from keeper – short) to team passing prior to a game. This allows me to make finer adjustments in game once I have feedback.

The feedback during the actual game tells you where you are going wrong. Once I describe some translations, you’ll understand why I play team passing.

Translations of feedback: Please note firstly, that my translations are working on the basis that you made the relevant changes to suit the pitch dimensions you are about to play on before you started to play on it. If you did not then you may get more severe messages (I’ll try to cover those too).

Misplacing to many short passes: means your passing is to short. Click to the right once or twice.

Misplacing to many long passes: means the opposite. You are playing to long. Click to the left once or twice.

Our passing has been appalling/abysmal/terrible: means you probably did not make the changes above that I told you too. Recheck the pitch size, scout report and then adjust accordingly.

We are misplacing to many easy passes: means you are playing to fast a tempo. Slow it down. If you are playing short passing, you need to be playing a slow tempo. If its direct, then it should be a faster tempo. Please note, that at this stage (just 5 games remember) I do not know what the message is for playing to slow. I would imagine its something about being caught in possession to much. But I will post back when I know.

Whats also worth noting here is that there is a view button inside the report window. This allows you to change to the following timed reports:

Last 15 minutes

Last 30 minutes

First half

Second half

Extra Time

Overall

Once you start making changes, and let me assure you, you will be making changes, I think you will find the ‘Last 15 minutes’ and ‘Last 30 minutes’ to be extremely useful. These two settings will allow you to judge what impact your changes have had on a game.

I have read in a few places that the Assistant Managers feedback is always going to be negative, but once things start falling into place then you start getting some good feedback. My current game, which is paused, reads ‘Our passes, in general, are connecting very well’. Which is great to read, they even have the grammar correct! But it says what I means……don’t change anything.

Sometimes the feedback is mixed but still positive. I can not recall the exact words, but something like ‘Our long passes have been good today, we should encourage out players to play longer balls’. To me this means that its okay where it is, but if you make it just a little longer then it will exploit some weakneses.

Ill finish with a quick recap:

Large or long pitch = Direct passing.

Short or Narrow pitch = Short passing.

In between the above = mixed to start with (and I’ll tell you how to read the game in a minute).

Tempo: start with it at the same click as your passing style then adjust according to feedback.

Misplacing short passes: Play longer

Misplacing long passes: Play shorter

Misplacing easy passes: Slow tempo.

Last thing: Regardless of the tactic you choose. I play the 442 set – Attack, Normal & Defence. Adjust your passing according to the pitch, NOT what you think the formation needs. The pitch is the governor!

Please try this out if you are struggling and do not know what to do. This has taken me from 17th to 12th in 5 games. I have not lost a game using this and most importantly, the teams stats are all where they should be. I’m getting good chances, good passing %’ages, good possession. This is the reason that I am posting this after just 5 games. If was getting good results, but things just didn’t ‘look right’, then I can assure you I would not be posting.

I would love some feedback on this.

*EDIT* Lots of people have been asking me for the links I refer to, so I thought I would list them here:

'The Game - How to pwn Football manager 2009':

http://loswonderkids.com/community/index.php?showtopic=2846 his website for full article.

Or

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=107575 for part one here.

And

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=109595 for part two here.

SFrasers - Tactics. A less is more theory:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=102567

HeathXXX - Lower league management: Although I do not reference this theory in this thread, there is nevertheless some fantastic information in there.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=110062

LYW 85 - Roles of strikers:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=114457

Regards

LAM

I just wanted to add a few more points (in no particular order)

I play with Tottenham in the first season.

I got off to a terrible start and most of the team prior to finding this 'had lost faith in their manager'.

Stats were rubbish. Wrong players making all the shots, strikers not doing a whole lot.

I would advise you all to pull up the defaults you want to use, make adjust ments to the setpieces, centre team passing style and tempo, make all team passing and then save it as the relevant name.

My examples are 442 attack (default+SP) etc etc. Do not save over these as you change your tactics around...... remember, you are still learning 8O) just give it time.

by centralising the passing and tempo, you will force yourself to change it each game.

I do not make any more changes to teh tactics other than team passing for all players, the actual team passing style and tempo. and I occassionaly play around with the Dline dependant upon the opposition.

Something else I should mention.... and i refer you again, back to me being stupid. I am currently ignoring the feedback on showing 'players onto their weak foot' and tackling 'hard but fair' on the opposition unless I agree with it. I dont know how accurate these things are. Many times, the player I have been told to show into his weaker foot, is fairly strong or better with his weaker foot and for this reason I do not do it. I just dont see the point. But as I said, I may be stupid for not listening.

LAM

LAM

Excellent post! I'll try to implement some of your tips with my dear Liverpool side

Keep up the good work, ill let you know how things are going later..

Pretty impressive in all its simplicity, I have to say. I presume most of us had an inkling about these relations from before, but I'm certainly going to try this out systematically. If it really breaks down as simple as this... well then, a lesson worthwhile! Now looking forward to your walkthrough on how to avoid gaps and stretches between def-mid and mid-att, allright?

Hi,

thanks for the comments.

I have had two more great results with this. 4-0 win at home to Portsmouth and a 5-0 away win to Feyenoord.

Thats some of the stats from ingame. Not bad eh?

I have not adjusted any mentalities for the players. One thing I do adjust which I alluded to is the GK distribution. I make him short passing, pass to WBL and defender collect.

I make make the ingame changes to crossing if I am playing two fast but short strikers (Keane and Defoe). But thats about it.

So far, I have concede 4 goals in 6/7 games now, so clearly the zero mentality for the DC's isnt an issue. I think the only thing that it could effect and somone elses post alluded to it a while back is that they have a large tendancy to smash the ball upfield which can be frustrating.

I think once I raise a few more spots in the league then I'll try and test them with a low defence mentality rather than a zero one.

Keep me posted on the results.

Ensure you are making the changes to passing prior to starting a match else it takes to long to work out where you are.

Another thing.... I tend to watch the whole game and will continue to do so, until I get things a little more 'sussed'.

*EDIT* - 3 goals in six games. It also seems that I had originaly only tested this for 4 games not 5, so sorry about that.

Cheers

LAM

My last few games have moved away a little in relation to the pitch size/passing style.

I have played on my own pitch (standard) and newcastles (large) and the comments have been to play a short passing game. Which in both cases, when I have changed from a direct passing style to a short one, my% has increased.

So.... I still plan to set up with the pitch/style ratios, but its worth changing if the assistant says to.

LAM

Hi, i myself have been wondering what to do with default tactics, ive been traulling thorugh all the tactics on here but cant quite get it right

Having read this nice and easy to read guide i feel i have a better understanding... thanks

Now onto my first match using this guide, i am tiverton (BSS) and have gone into a Fa cup 2nd round match with BSP team Oxford. Im not in great form, but have a superb team that dont perform well enough. I was 7-1 for this match (huge underdogs) i was also away from home. I opted for a edfensive 4-4-2, moving the DM's to CM's with an barrow for one of them.

Oxford took the league on a long but narrow pitch, i feared the worse. i stook by me assistant (8 tactical) and took his advice. I struggled through to half tym 1-0 down.

At half time, i cahnge the things my assistant was telling me and changed personel in the midfield.

To my shock, we took a hold on the game and creted a few chances getting posotive feedback in the process, we then equalised, a good finnish at the back post by my left winger. I was then holding on slightly without them really having any clear cut chances. in the 89th minute we were on the verge of a big draw and replay. We put the ball into my out of form stricker... He spun on it and rasped one in from 30 yards, ive never been soo happy whilst playing fm.

Im now in the hat for the 3rd round. some acheivement for my side and am eagerly awaitng man united hopefully.

I will try to let you know how i get on with the season, but thanks for laying down these principles for me.

lam - Very good post and in essence, there's nothing wrong at all with the default tactics. There seems to be this big misconception that they're rubbish. If you understand a little about how each formation and "style" works, then pick the right players in each position, it's probably the easiest way to play FM.

Although I don't use the defaults myself, because I personally prefer to tinker a little and experiment with completely new settings that I myself understand, my best suggestion to most people is exactly what you're suggesting. If people want to adapt things from there, it's entirely up to them. It's far easier to have a pre-set default to go back to if any changes don't work out.

One clear advantage with the default tactics is they're perhaps more likely to work with a more diverse variety of teams in the game than a tactic I or other forum users have uploded.

The only quibble I have with some of the defaults is the individual player mentality settings, as even before I had read TT&F, I preferred a gap in mentality no bigger than 8 between the most defensive player and the most attacking, as I felt my team would always play better and tighter as a unit. If you look at the default 4-4-2 Diamond Attacking, the mentality gap is huge between the Central Defenders (DC) set at 1 and the Central Attacking Midfielder (AMC) set at 19. My thoughts with this is that such a huge gap, especially with the passing, tempo and defensive line settings, could cause all sorts of problems with opponents exploiting gaping chasms in your team. So in retrospect, the defaults are fine as a platform, but it's worth paying a little attention to the individual mentality setings. As I say, my own preference is a gap of no more than 8 clicks from most defensive to most attacking players.

A little theory of mine though that along with having the right players, might be worthy of consideration...

You'll see by delving into the game, or by looking at the information in the editors if you wish, that almost every club has a "preferred" formation along with attributes relating to different styles. The same applies for the AI managers, something that's being explored in another thread.

Although I've not scientifically examined this in any great detail, I have quite often noticed that clubs in FM tend to fairly often appoint managers who have a similar playing ideology to that of the club itself. This is something I've "noticed" in pretty much all of the previous FM releases, although I've never posted in any great detail about it. As an example though, my best results in any version of FM when playing as Man Utd, have been when I've played the "Man Utd Way" so to speak.

I think it was in FM07 or FM08, where I took a look in the editor at the stats for Man Utd and Alex Ferguson and their preferred styles and settings. Although my own formation varied slightly, my settings for width, attacking mentality, defensive line, use of free-roles, etc, mirrored the information I reviewed in the editor. Feasably this could apply for any club.

OK, it's going off at a slight tangent from the intentions of your original post, but if you look at any club in the game, you will be able to see what their preferred formation is, or that of the manager. Mark Hughes at Man City has a "preferred" formation of 4-1-4-1. If you want to emulate that formation, it's already there in the defaults and for my money, it's not going to be too far away from what the AI Mark Hughes is using.

That is a pretty good OP, and I’m happy for you that you’ve been able to go ‘back to basics’ and make some improvements in performance. I do have some concerns about what you are advocating though, mostly around using the assistant feedback rather than the default tactics.

Like HeathXXX I never use the defaults myself, but when I have looked at some of them out of interest, there have been some settings (with mentality gaps being a prime example) which to me seem quite illogical. The more I delve into different peoples tactical experiences and contrast them with my own, the more I begin to believe that there are probably countless ways to be successful tactically with this game (and vice versa), and it is very difficult to say with any surety that “this works” and will do so for everyone (not that I’m suggesting that’s what you are doing here at all). For example, I have had a great deal of success playing with short passing and high tempo, which my experience would suggest can work with the right players and the right set up. However my experience would directly contradict your advice on slow/short; fast/long.

Secondly, with the assistant feedback, despite having a world class assistant, I’m just not convinced that I should put 100% faith in his judgment. Your experience with the ‘opposition instructions’ here would be a good example of this. I’ve also had experiences where he has said ‘show player x onto weaker foot’ and my OI are already set to do just that. With regard to responding to his suggestions, I have also regularly seen him say ‘we are misplacing too many short passes’ early-ish in the game, only for the message to change to ‘our passes are connecting very well’ despite me not changing a single setting. This makes me think there is some danger in saying ‘how high’ when the assman says ‘jump’.

Now I don’t pretend to know exactly how the AI makes these decisions when conjuring up these feedback reports, but I’d bet my left one that it is simply about overall pass completion %. If this is true, then what is the margin between ‘too many missed passes’ and ‘passes in general connecting very well’? Well I don’t know the answer, but some smart testers on here could probably come up with a fairly accurate answer. Now if that margin is fairly low (and there would have to be a point where +1% pushes it over either way I’d imagine), then it would only take one of two players within your team to be playing a bit ‘off’ for that to occur. Now this could be because of numerous things, some of which may well have little or nothing to do with their passing settings, or the pitch set up. They could be just playing crap (which could be responded to by a team talk or subbing, which may both be a better option than changing the passing setting for the entire team), or they could be getting marked out of the game/outplayed by their opposition, which could in turn be responded to in a number of ways that also do not require changes to the whole teams passing style.

So I guess what I’m trying to say in a very long winded way is that while I applaud your intent in presenting some ‘back to basics’ advice for others (and which has apparently worked ok for you in a handful of games), I would be a bit careful about making your analysis too narrow in its focus, because it could end up making something that is actually quite complex, seem too simple in its correction.

Hey guys,

Thanks for the comments. Nothing worse than writting something and getting not alot of feedback, so I appreciate the time.

One thing I want to make clear (and I'm not getting upset with you) is that I did say this was for beginers or those that are struggling with tactics...... now I know for a fact Heathxxx, being a fan of your work 8O), you know what you are doing. DZ, I dont know you, but clearly, you also have a grasp on the game.

I understand what you are saying and agree with most of it, but if you can imagine that you dont understand the game at all or everything you used to understand now doesnt work (where I'm at) then working with what the game gives you is a must. There simple is nothing else to go on. So many people have downloaded 'Wonder Tactics' and they have not worked. Where can these people go? Champ manager maybe? 8O)

I would like to respond to a few of the comments you made, more for anyone else reading this than to justify anything.

Difference in Mentalities: Couldnt agree more. I dont like them so far apart, it makes each part of the team (Def,mid,att) very one dimmensional, but and its a big but, its working. Once I have gained a few more places in the league and the players have a little more faith in me, the first thing I'll be doing is increased the zero mentality of the DC's. I think currently, it makes you very strong defensively, but it does make linking play a little tough.

Team formation/style preferences: Again, I agree with this comment. Fortunately for me, I like playing Tottenhams favoured formation, the 442. However, currently, as I am using the default setting for the team and only adjusting them if there is a need. I do not play their favoured settings within this formation, ie the width, attacking, closing down etc etc settings (yes, i use the editior - tbh I'm gonna use anything right now to get me going). I would assume in most cases that people selecting a team will know through their own knowledge what the favoured formation of their team is (also assuming they are playing their favoured team).

Any Tactic working: Again, I'm in agreement with this. However, I refer you to my earlier comment that you both have experience with the game, you are able to design tactics as you both have a fundamental understanding of the game. Once I get safe this season or perhaps the begining of the next then I will mess around with the defaults and end up designing something that is unrecognisable as a default tactic. But please remember, if you cant get anything to work then this is somewhere to start.

100% Faith: You are spot on here. The way I look at it, is he is not going to tell you everything else, you could just following it word for word and beat every team. Its also a downside to playing a team passing style. If something is wrong, you have to check every player, whch takes time, but it also, again, gives you a better understanding of your team and the game each time you do it. In relation to the passing, I notice that if the team are playing well with a style, however there is a player that is not (usualy a WB) I find turning off their 'TTB' makes thigs more solid for them. Also, in relation to the opposition instructions..... well, as I mentioned previously, I rarely follow even half of them as they do not make sense most of the time. Perhaps in a while I might try and see what happens. But if you read carefully at times he will tell you a little more about an individual player rather than just to close down XYZ, when that happens its worth noting.

Margin or error in feedback: Agreed, there will obviously be a line at some point where things are bad or okay and okay or good. HOwever, I do find that there is three settings rather than bad or good. There is definately a Bad, Okay and Good. The reason I believe this is that there is a point at any stage in the game where the feedback will have no comment on the passing style or tempo. I firmly beleive that at this stage, its the okay bit. If things are working well then you get the positive feedback.

I also agree with your comment about the feedback suddenly switch from bad to okay. I find that when it does this, I'll flick through the various time settings to see if I can break it down a little. YOu will often find that if you have just lowered your passing it may be commented on incorrectly in the 'overall' setting (which is the default), however it reads that you are passing well or simply no comment in the '15 minutes' or the '30 minutes'.

I guess what I am trying to say in a long winded way, is that the information is there to be used. Providing you dont have some ridiculous formation and tactic, then I would guess that you can apply it to almost any tactic. However for me, until i get moving a little more I'll be sticking with my amended defaults.

Please keep the feedback coming.

LAM

Great post. I came on looking for a way to block a leaky defence and found this simple and intelligent posting. Will give it a go. Well done keep it up.

I would also advocate looking at the home/away stats to find out who is wasting passes, missing shots, getting tackled, etc

this may suggest raising/lowering their sliders, or that they are just having a bad day and need to be subbed

It's worth using the TT&F formations as the defaults since you know the mentality spread will be good.

I am finding that slowly I am able to play a short passing game on larger pitches.

To be honest, this may be down to the fact that I dont really know what size my pitch is. I play on pitches that are longer than mine and they are considered short and I play on pitches wider than mine and they are considered narrow. Yet, I chose a standard pitch.

Either way, I seem to be able to play short or direct on it. If I opt for mixed, then thats why I tend to find errors.

I have been switching from direct to short without any loss in % passing and without many comments from the assistant.

Anyone else finding the same?

LAM

Misplacing too many short passes -1/2 clicks to the right. Too many long passes -1/2 clicks to the left. I am assuming that you are altering the team sliders. If the individual slider instructions overide the team ones, how will this work? Do you alter all the individual passing instructions as well? Kind regards.

As I've said, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with default settings apart from some of the gaps in mentality. If you're happy enough to adapt these a little to close those gaps, then it's definately the easiest way to set up a tactic. If anything is perhaps at fault with the mentality settings, it's perhaps they're a little over defensive at the back, even with the attacking formations, as you seem to have noticed lam when you say

Difference in Mentalities: Couldnt agree more. I dont like them so far apart, it makes each part of the team (Def,mid,att) very one dimmensional, but and its a big but, its working. Once I have gained a few more places in the league and the players have a little more faith in me, the first thing I'll be doing is increased the zero mentality of the DC's. I think currently, it makes you very strong defensively, but it does make linking play a little tough.

It's perhaps one of the reasons SI are testing the concept of the Tactical Wizard with FM Live using the TT&F theories. That's not to say that TT&F is 100% fool-proof and that everyone else's tactics are wrong. I agree with some principals, yet don't with others. Arguably the mentality slider is the most powerful and influential of them all. Getting it right requires a great many other variables, not least the other sliders (especially perhaps Defensive Line), along with the right players, etc...

So it's perhaps best to make it clear that the defaults, with a few minor adaptions with the mentality sliders can help build a very solid tactical framework, with very little effort.

The individual player instructions via the "Set To" drop down menu, are very useful and pretty correct from what you would expect of each position, again though, with the only real requirement being a change of mentality. Whenever I build a tactic of my own, I use the default "Set To" individual position instructions as my platform. I've always done that. If I'm experimenting or testing a tactic and something individually is not to my liking, I always revery back to the default setting and start again. Sometimes I leave them at the default, sometimes I'll alter things in a different direction.

As a learning tool, I don't think you can beat the default settings. I'll be very interested to see what direction this thread and your experimentation heads in.

Misplacing too many short passes -1/2 clicks to the right. Too many long passes -1/2 clicks to the left. I am assuming that you are altering the team sliders. If the individual slider instructions overide the team ones, how will this work? Do you alter all the individual passing instructions as well? Kind regards.

Oescus,

I changed all my players passing to team passing. So, Yes, When i make adjustments, its through the team slider, which then in turn changes all the players.

You will always find that there are one or two players that seem to give the ball away with their passing. I am currently working on this to establish what to do in this case. I think I may take from other peoples tactics here as its always my defensive players that have this problem.

LAM

As a learning tool, I don't think you can beat the default settings. I'll be very interested to see what direction this thread and your experimentation heads in.

Thanks for the comments again.

At home this guide is incredible. I am winning 3/4 goals to zero/1 concede nearly everytime.

However, I think I need to ammend my comments on the away setup. I think I am to attacking. I will start a little more defensive and go from there.

Heath - can I ask, in your opinion, what does a zero mentality do on a DC. I am aware of the positioning issues, but what impact do you think it has on passing and other actions?

LAM

I've used wide split mentality often and had assumed this was good attacking but weak defensively and tended to use team tactics with Spurs. However in 9.3 I've used the "set to" instructions and so far a 1st Chelsea, 2nd Spurs and 6th West Ham. With West Ham I just reduced forward runs.

Rather than change mentalities, I would look at runs for attacking and no runs/mixed as a defensive tactic.

As far as DC on 0, I've used this with a full pushed up DL and won EPL with Lpool by 12pts.

Heath - can I ask, in your opinion, what does a zero mentality do on a DC. I am aware of the positioning issues, but what impact do you think it has on passing and other actions?

LAM

In all fairness my thoughts would possibly be biased That's not a contradiction of what you (and knap) are doing, because it's a question of personal preference and satisfaction with the outcome.

The main reason I wouldn't currently have DC's set to the lowest point on the slider is because I play a high defensive line and use the offside trap. Obviously if you're using a globally high defensive line and the offside trap, such low mentality could have potentially lethal effects on those other two settings, under the assumption that the DC's may not push forwards quickly enough to spring the offside trap, especially if your full-backs are spaced quite a distance apart with mentality also. Hope that makes sense.

Im trying your approach and its workin quite good however recently I got this message "Our longpasses are terrible, but our shortpassing game is working really well" (translating from swedish so the words might not be right in english)

How do you adapt to that? and yes im playing everybody on teampassing except my AMC who is playing Direct all the time....

what to do if ass. man. says: X has misplaced many of his passes straight to the opposition?

Its good to see this thread is generating some good discussion.

Iam

With egards to DC’s on 0 mentality, I could be getting a bit mixed up here but doesn’t TT&F suggest that passing is also linked to mentality in the sense that players with low mentalities will not look to move the ball forward (or switch play) into attacking positions, while players on attacking mentalities will often look to do so? This seems logical to me, and may go some way to explaining your earlier comment about your DC’s always hoofing the ball into touch or blindly back up the pitch. A DC with very low mentality and few available passing options (which will also be a result of having high mentality gaps) will take a ‘safety first’ approach to play and boot the ball away rather than try to counterattack or play the ball out of defence. This is one reason why I prefer individual or split passing and mentality to global (and I have used both a fair bit) because it allows you to achieve greater balance between how you want your team to play overall, and how you want individuals/positions in your team to play in relation to your team (hope that makes sense!)

Mbarbaric

I think that pitch size has been made more of a factor in this version. As such it should be given thorough consideration when determining how you want your team to play. There are a few threads in the tactics forum discussing what styles suit what pitch sizes etc etc, though I’m yet to make up my mind on that one. Pitch size should be considered, but it should be considered IMO alongside numerous other factors. Pitch condition would remain as one of these factors also (with the basic assumption being longer passing on wet pitches)

Yahaii

Your translation is fine mate! I would be guessing that your team passing setting is lower than your AMC from that message (if not then I’m as confused as you!). Without knowing your formation its difficult to make a concrete judgment, but I can’t really see why you would have an AMC on very direct passing when he will by definition already be in an advanced position on the pitch (ie close to the stikers and wingers). This may well be the reason you are getting that message, and I would take a look at your AMC’s pass completion % to be sure either way. Personally, at the most I would have an AMC on mixed passing with through balls mixed (or often if he has very good passing and decisions stats…again individual player skills and ppms come into effect here)

geol13

Again I’ll be showing my bias against global instructions (especially for top level clubs) in this reply! The very first thing I’d do is have a look at player X’s stats and pass completion % I say this because I have had that very message myself at times, only to check the stats and see that the player is completing 90% of his passes! In short, I never take the assistants feedback on face value. But assuming that on this occasion the assistant is right, then there could be a number of reasons and remedies. It could be simply because he’s having an off day, and all players on this game (and IRL) will have them no matter how good they are. If this is the case, use your team talk to try to fire him up (you need to know though whether to be encouraging with him or go hard on him , and this will be dependent on his personality, morale etc etc). Give him 10 minutes and see if he responds, and if he hasn’t picked up (and you can use the team motivation tab to see how he has responded….if he is fired up then leave him on…if he’s playing ok/poorly then the team talk hasn’t worked and you should sub him). Another reason is that the opposition are man marking him ()especially if the opposition player is very good or superior to yours) or closing him down often/tackling hard. Depending on what his other settings (passing, creative freedom, mentality etc etc) and team settings are (ie passing, tempo, width etc etc), and what his individual abilities are (passing, decisions, determination etc etc), then these could also be part of the problem, and the solution may be found in adjusting some of these.

I think what these problems and responses show is that this IS a very complex game, but it is also one that you can learn a great deal more about with a bit of time, patience and trial and error. For any problem experienced in the game, there are several reasons why it could be happening, and several ways to remedy them. With reference back to the OP, going back to basics is a good idea if you’re starting out, or struglling to get to grips with the game’s complexity, or to try out/test new ideas. But I think sooner or later you will realize that the game is presenting you with some complex problems that you are going to have to become more ‘sophisticated’ (in both a footballing and problem solving sense) at responding to.

Hi all,

Glad to see that this is getting some attention now 8O)

I want to thank DZ for his comments as I agree with most of them and they should be taken on board. I would also like to add a few little ones myself:

DZ - Your comment on the DC zero mentality was what I expected to hear, its not what I wanted to hear, but what was expected. I am sure now this is the reason for simply clearing the ball. This may also explain why I am getting outstanding results from playing lesser teams and struggling with the tougher ones (obviously this would be expected anyways), but its tougher to rule a game if you are gifting possession to quality opposition.

MB - Pitch size is important, however, I did commment that I am finding myself able to play a shorter passing game at my home ground which traditionaly has been a direct passing pitch. I will need to test this some more on some opponents that have a large pitch and then I'll report back.

Yahaii - If its saying your long passes are terrible and your team is playing a short passing style then you need to sort your AMC out, as its likely he is the culprit. I whole heartedly agree with DZ on his comments. In most cases your AMC should be on mixed passing. If there was anyone who should be on an individual passing style within the team playing an AMC (be sure you do not mean an MCA though) is the AMC and he should be on mixed not direct. The reason for this is that he is generally to close to the ST's to warrent a direct pass, especialy if you have also given him RWB.

However, that said, if you are getting that message and you are playing a team is playing a direct passing style then you need to shorten it. In these cases I would often take it from direct all the way down to the high click of short and then adjust the reviews to a 15 min report and see what difference that makes.

G13 - This is a tougher one for me as in my opinion its highly dependant upon the culprit. Here is my (very) generalised view on it: If its anyone other than the DC's, I will lower their TTB. I often find that in the defaults this setting is to high. Its on often for the MCD and mixed for the WB's. I would normaly have it on mixed for MCD (assuming he is capable of mixed) and rare for WB's. But as I said, I am using these and not making many changes, so I will start with the default and the adjust accordingly in game. So, if their passing is bad, I will lower this first.

If its the DC's then I will change it either way first to mixed then to the opposite of what it was if it was not working. You need to be carefull with DC's as I beleive (not proved) that their clearances counts as passes. So when they intercept and then hoof it upfield, its considered a pass, therefore it stands to reason that their passing will be bad. This is also applicable for my MCD (and I assume for a DM if you play him). As I stated above, I beleive (and supported by DZ and Heath) that this is a byproduct of the low mentality. At this setting they are simlply clearing the box everytime. If you are brave enough, play around with it a little.

DZ made a comment here on them 'having a bad day', I agree with this. Sometimes their opposition is simply getting the better of them each time. When dealing with this, again......use whats available to you. You have the stats, you have the ratings and you have the moral screens. As you will see from my earlier screen shot, I have all of these lined up for both teams. At various points in the game, I will display them and then react accordingly. If you read the posts from the links I posted earlier (from 'The Game') then you should have someone else on the bench that can play in this position. Sometimes thats all it will take, someone else with a slightly different skill set.

Another thing in relaiton to performances........do not under estimate the power of a fresh pair of legs in this version. Im my opinion, all positions will benefit from this. The attackers do as it brings in either more pace or fresh firepower or the defence does as it brings in stamina and concentration. So... when you are thinking of subbing, check the staminas first, performance second and then levels of concentration in the defence as the third.

Also...... on another note, which is in line with MB and DZ'S comments. The weather is important too. I just found myself playing a horrid game against Portsmouth in heavy rain and with a gale. So, you should play more direct in rain as the passes stop shorter and its hard to short passing in the rain, however, in a gale you can often see the ball go up in the air and actualy fall back into the direction of the kicker of the ball. So a direct passing game here was not good. For the first half, it was just a mess out there. both teams passing were around 55% with nothing I was changing having any effect. However, about a third into the second half I decided to switch to a direct passing game with my Strikers (Kean and Defoe - neither tall) as target men and supply to feet. I ended the game 4-0 in my favour!

So.... make sure you look at the weather too. Its found in the information top right corner of the tick helper box.

Hope some of that helps.

As before, please keep the feedback coming.

i've played a few games, and it has been a great difference in my team performance compared to their display with my custom tactic. you were absolutely right about false impression i knew what i was doing in this game.

next step is to actually make them play as i wish. it could take some time...

Really glad its working for you MB. Keep at it for a little while and you will being to recognise aspects of the game that you can improve upon.

The first improvements I started making was to stop players doing what they were not capable of, even with the default settings, the demands are high on players.

Remove the weaknesses in the tactics before adding more stuff. That way, you create your own base tactic first that you know you can fall back onto!

LAM

Just wanted to jump in and say great thread LAM. Cool ideas that I have been employing. Must say that my Ipswich team is basically destroying everyone at home by initially setup up to play to the large pitch and the in-game adjustments seem to change things. Not quite the same away, but I am tinkering. Fun and thought-provoking. Thanks.

Just wanted to jump in and say great thread LAM. Cool ideas that I have been employing. Must say that my Ipswich team is basically destroying everyone at home by initially setup up to play to the large pitch and the in-game adjustments seem to change things. Not quite the same away, but I am tinkering. Fun and thought-provoking. Thanks.

Hi Rio,

thanks for the feedback, although I am not entirely sure from your post how much of it you are using.

Could you break it down for me and also, if you have deviated from the defaults, can you explain (for me and others) what you have done and how you think its worked for you?

LAM

What about Dline on different pitches what you suggest for that?

One thing someone should test is if the Assistant manager's comments are related to your current settings. For example if your players in average have short passing settings, and your team's passing% is lower than 65%, you'll get a random comment related to short passes (like "Take more direct approach"). Same with long passes. If your team plays with long passes and the passing% is low, you may get a comment that you should change the passing to something else.

MBarbaric

These are the "set to" defaults. There are a couple here already set up

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=114473

what bothers me in this default settings is passing.

my assistant changes his mind about passing style over and over.

in 15th minute he thinks we should play shorter, then long ball, after while more direct style...

On the other side, i think i've started to tinker with my individual tactics too much again...

i just don't want david silva and theo walcott only running down the flank to byline and cross. they both have great finishing andm while it's good to see them cross to Adebayor, i'd like to see them cut inside and score....

what i've changed from dfault is team mentality and passing.

MB - I regularly mess with the wingers. I dont find that it creates a problem. I rarely touch the mentalities for the players apart from the Stikers as I am testing this post right now : http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=114457 which lays out the roles of the various strikers.

One thing someone should test is if the Assistant manager's comments are related to your current settings. For example if your players in average have short passing settings, and your team's passing% is lower than 65%, you'll get a random comment related to short passes (like "Take more direct approach"). Same with long passes. If your team plays with long passes and the passing% is low, you may get a comment that you should change the passing to something else.

Misku & MB - In relation to passing I am starting to have mixed feelings on this. I find that sometimes I can play a short passing game on a large pitch and the passing be spot on. However, what I have not been doing is tracking the circumstances around this occurance. It may well be that there is a tornado and direct passing just wont work or it could be that the opposition team are so bad that any passing style would work.

That said, I do still setup Direct for larger pitches and Short for smaller pitches.

One thing I find that really does not work well for the team is mixed passing, if I chose this for the team passing (remember my whole team are on this) then I get terrible stats. It tends to be either short or direct for me. I am experimenting with this a little and giving mixed to a few key role players ie AMC and seeing how they deal with it. I am moving more and more to the belief that mixed passing is for great passers and great decision makers and no one else.

Knap - I think once this season is over I will re-read your post and create my own tactic around your fundamentals of using the 'set to' insructions.

On another note (well same as above really but its a question) a long long time ago, in a galalax..... sorry.... day dreaming. A long time back there was a post somewhere on how to create and save your own 'set to' instructions. You had to use wordpad to do it, but once I had built me 'for keeps' team I found it massively usefull. Anyone know where it is?

LAM

UPDATE ON SEASON PROGRESS

If this doesnt get people testing this then nothing will !!!!!

I am now 25 games into my first season with Tottenham. At game 14 I was in 18th place. Using this formula I am now in 7th place (25 games), thats 11 places in 11 games! One place per game! and I currently THE 'in form' team in the league and am joint 4th on goals scored (place 2&3 are only 1&2 goals ahead).

So...... as I said at the begining. If you are struggling and dont know where to turn, turn to the game and things will be better. Don't tweak to much until you know what you are doing and when you do tweak, then tweak away the bad stuff before you add the good stuff!!!!

Just to recap about the things I change (other than the pitch size setup).

I have now adjusted the mentalities of the DC's to lowest normal for attack, highest defence for standard and mid defence for defence.

I make all players global passing.

I tinker with DC marking depending on opposition solo or dual striker or if they are swapping roles.

So, as you can see, its not alot!

LAM

Hi LAM excellent post, using your guide i have won my last three gams and is looking good. have a question though: during a game if assistant manager says you are struggling to control possession, what would you do? also have had assistant manager say that we arent getting on end of crosses, how would you act on this?

Hi Lam, been testing out your theory for the past 5 games with my V.Poor Southampton side in the second season. Before using your idea I was rock bottom, winning none, drawing 1 and losing 6. Since using it I am undefeated, Won 1 and Drawn 4 and whilst I'm not setting the world on fire I am performing a lot better than I was. I just have a quick question, when you say you use global mentality does that apply to individual player instructions as well? And what about things like crossing, holding up ball and things like that?

Hi LAM excellent post, using your guide i have won my last three gams and is looking good. have a question though: during a game if assistant manager says you are struggling to control possession, what would you do? also have had assistant manager say that we arent getting on end of crosses, how would you act on this?

Great messages guys. Glad its working for you both.

GD: His comments on struggling to control possession are not instructions, its simply his observations. This is usual (using that lightly) coupled with poor passing. If you are winning the game then simply ignore him at this stage, at least until you can read the game a little more. Sometimes its hard to get that up even if the passing is good due to the opposition team playing possession football. Again, the information is there, if the scout reports tell you that they play possession football, then expect your possession to be lower than normal. Providing your passing is okay or the score is okay, I think its nothing to worry about.

If i am not getting on the end of crosses then i tend to check the quality of the crosser, the jumping/heading of my strikers and the same for the oppo's DC's. This is one area of the game that I adjust heavily. Example: Bently can cross but cant dribble very well, so i change him to cross often but dribble mixed and cross from mixed (he can not dribble to the touchline) on the other hand Lennon can dribble and run like the wind, but can not cross so i have him on RWB often, Cross from Byline but crossing on mixed.

Basically its his way of telling you, you need to look at the crossing. Simply put, dont cross if you can get on the end of it.

Hi Lam, been testing out your theory for the past 5 games with my V.Poor Southampton side in the second season. Before using your idea I was rock bottom, winning none, drawing 1 and losing 6. Since using it I am undefeated, Won 1 and Drawn 4 and whilst I'm not setting the world on fire I am performing a lot better than I was. I just have a quick question, when you say you use global mentality does that apply to individual player instructions as well? And what about things like crossing, holding up ball and things like that?

The only global mentality I have is passing. I am sure at some point I will change this, but the reason I have it now is because its easier to read the game without having to make tons of amendments each time. I am currently toying with mixed passing on my MCA. But generally speaking thats the only global setting.

I have posted the changes I make to the default settings throughout this thread. Have another read through, but if you are unsure, let me know and I'll list them all again, as I am continualy adding to them.

Also.... if you are still not getting all the results you want, ensure you are playing the correct formation - attack, normal or defence against the right opponent. If you are a decent team but have had a really poor run, your odds will be lower, but you may well be the better team. Equally so, if you have been a little gunho about the odds, then again, pull it back a little.

LAM

first defeat in 7games using this theory, home to man united, 3-0 down within 25minutes. at this stage i was thinking the worst. But i just stuck with it merely just altering passing and tempo in line with what th assistant manager was saying. Finished first half strongly pulling one goal back, dominated the second half and if my strikers could have been more efficient with their chances then i would have won. as it is i went down 2-3 . despite the defeat very encouraging.

You know lam, I like the direction this thread is heading and I'm sure the discussion will help a lot of people at their wits end with their tactics. Keep it up mate

lam - this thread has been very helpful to me. thanks for your input.

i have (based on defaults mainly) a different variant on 442 depending on opposition , pitch etc as per your guidelines.

Was wondering if you could give me feedback on them. see link below.

http://hosted.filefront.com/GeneticDeviant

the tactics are 442defensiveshortnarrowpitch, 442defensivelongpitch, 442normalshortnarrowpitch, 442normallongpitch, 442attackshortnarrowpitch, 442attacklongpitch.

The titles say it all lol.

I have changed only the defender settings to team mentality, as i want my team to function as a unit.

Feedback from all welcome.

You know lam, I like the direction this thread is heading and I'm sure the discussion will help a lot of people at their wits end with their tactics. Keep it up mate

Thanks buddy. I am so glad its working. At least I now know its not just a Tottenham thing 8O)

first defeat in 7games using this theory, home to man united, 3-0 down within 25minutes. at this stage i was thinking the worst. But i just stuck with it merely just altering passing and tempo in line with what th assistant manager was saying. Finished first half strongly pulling one goal back, dominated the second half and if my strikers could have been more efficient with their chances then i would have won. as it is i went down 2-3 . despite the defeat very encouraging.

It is truely amazing what playing the right tactics can do in this game. Needless to say, its great that it works, but fundamentally its what makes this unlike real life. But..... it makes me happy when I switch tactics and it starts working 8O)

lam - this thread has been very helpful to me. thanks for your input.

i have (based on defaults mainly) a different variant on 442 depending on opposition , pitch etc as per your guidelines.

Was wondering if you could give me feedback on them. see link below.

http://hosted.filefront.com/GeneticDeviant

the tactics are 442defensiveshortnarrowpitch, 442defensivelongpitch, 442normalshortnarrowpitch, 442normallongpitch, 442attackshortnarrowpitch, 442attacklongpitch.

The titles say it all lol.

I have changed only the defender settings to team mentality, as i want my team to function as a unit.

Feedback from all welcome.

Okaaaayyyy.......

Right, bear in mind these are my opinions only. And also bear in mind that I am using the Defaults, because I DONT know tacitcs that well. So, take what I say with a pinch of salt.

442ALP: Wow, incredibly attacking. Personaly I think your mentalities are way to high for a global setting and especially so for your DC's. I also think your Defence Line is way to high for a long pitch. With against even a mediocre team, you will be hugely susceptible to direct/longball/over the top passing. ie counter attacking. You width setting would also create huge gaps in your formation. I'm guessing that you only use this when in major control over the opposition or you need to seriously get back into the game. Your closing down is dangerously high for DC's too.

Though, if i refer you back to your earlier post, you dont need to do drastic things to get back into a game.

442ASNP: Again, very attacking indeed. Most of what I said above I would also apply here. You seem to be taking a heavy view on the DL as in both cases its very high. I trust you have the players to pull this off? ie very athletic DC's?

okay. I had a look through the remaining ones too. Here's what I think. I think you are to extream in your settings. You attacking formation is extreamly attacking, your normal one is the highest normal one possibly and your defensive one has no attacking function at all.

Hopefully, you are still reading and have not mentaly told me to shove it !!!

In my opinion you have taken a MASSIVE step away from the defaults here. In fact I think the only thing that is still here from the defaults is the formation and Forward runs.

Sometimes, you just need to play a normal game to see whats what and you do not appear to have that.

Your width setting is the same across the board. I assume by this, its something you change every game? If its not then when you play on a wide or large pitch with a wide setting you are going to have enormous gaps between your players. I beleive that you should play wide on a narrow pitch and normal on a wide pitch (assuming you like width with your team and that you are not chasing a lead - you would be wider)

Its very hard to comment on tactics without knowing your team or how you tweak them.

I am sorry to say GD (please dont take offence) but this is a massive step away from using the defaults. One of the fundamental things about the default tactics is their mentality split. I believe that its for this reason it will work with most players.

An example would be your attacking tactics. If you are Barcelona, Man U, Chelsea etc etc then they may very well work, but anyone else simply will not have the quality to pull off what you are asking them to do.

I have three sets of defaults now, well techincally its six, but three of those are the computers defaults. The newer three are my adjustments.

Below I will list the fundamental changes that I have now hard wired into my starting formations, then I'll list the things that I change before or during a game.

Setup changes:

Team passing - global. Style gets set once the team has been confirmed and we are waitin for kick off (that way you dont overwrite your own defaults)

DC mentalities - A relatively new change, Defence formation = 3 clicks (4). Normal = 5 clicks (6). Attack = 6 clicks (7)

GK - passing highest short with defender collecting and distributing to my WBL,

Setpeices - no particular instructions here, just the usual, but save them to your defaults else you willbe changing them all the time.

Thats it. These are saved as my defaults. Defence 442, Normal 442, Attack 442.

Pre game changes:

Passing style - If its a large or long pitch I go for low direct to start with. If its small or short I go with highest short. I will adjust accordingly in response to assistant manager comments.

I will also adjust tempo in accordance with the passing style. I tend to match them like for like pre match and again, respond accordingly to comments or how I see things.

Defence Line - I will adjust this based on the pitch size, but more importantly (for me) who the opposition players are. If they are fast and alert (anticipation) I go for a lower DLine, if they are slow or can jump, I go for a higher Dline.

Changes to PI's. some examples are best to explain this. I have two MCA's Modric and Moutinho. Both are quality players. Modric can do every AND can dribble. Moutinho is a little better at passing but can not dribble. So, I will play one or the other and have them both as playmaker (only one on the pitch at any time) however, when Moutinho is playing, I do not want him to RWB therefore I set it to mixed or rare (depending on how often he loses it in the first 15mins). My other example is between Lennon and Bently. Lennon can seriously run with the ball but can not cross, and Bently is not that great at running with the ball but can cross. So when Lennon plays, he gets crossing mixed and RWB often. When Bentley plays he gets RWB mixed and Cross often.

In game changes:

Well..... depends on feedback and what I see happening. An example of this is when i play against a 433 (AML/R's version). If i want to play an attacking or normal game against this formation at some point in the game I will have to remove FWR off my WBLR as the AI will force these wingers forwards and they will catch my WB's out of position.

Notes:

You see how normal my settings are to start with, most of the settings which I adjust are rarely any more than one click outside of the mixed or normal settings. This way its a soft option, my team will just about attack or just about defend. I feel that this way, you maintain a level of control over your team. If they are all attacking, who is going to defend? If they are all defending, who is going to attack? Thats not to say that if I am chasing a game or despite tons of pressure there is no goal on the horizon, I will increase width, increase attacking mentality (indiviudaly) and increase tempo....

Its worth noting though that (for me) the position of the DLine is relative to you chosen formation. ie for an attacking tactic I feel that a Normal Dline is quite conservative. Whereas a Normal DLine for a defensive tactic is quite daring.

Anyhows...... got carried away there a little.

I guess my point is that you have stepp away from the defaults (in my opinion) to such a large extent that they can not be considered defaults anymore. And if that is the case, then I am sorry to say that you have also stepped out of my comfort zone in relation to feedback.

If these are working for you, then I am very pleased. If not, go back to basics.

Remember what I said about removing the weaknesses from a team BEFORE you add strengths. Take my AMC's and Lennon and Bentley as examples of removing weaknesses. They cant do something, so i remove it!

Sorry for the long reply. I got a little lost in my explanations.

LAM

thanks for taking the time to post a reply and look at my tactics. i have adjusted accordingly. well changed mentality, defensive lines, width, lowered closing down on dc's, adjusted their mentality's etc. Just wondering, with my defensive formations, both short narrow pitch and long pitch, what would you change? you stated that my defensive formations have no attacking function?

using my amended tactics as Leeds (injury plagued patched up team) narrowly lost to a full strength chelsea in the cup. dominated possession scored two but lampard scored three 35yd screamers so i was unlucky in my view. Chelsea never really got in behind my defense restricted them to speculative efforts, and i created enough chances to win.

I found by going with less width as per your advise i have solved in the main the issue i alluded to earlier in regards to struggling to control possession.

LAM, Did you take a look at my 2-3-2-1-2 EL TEL FANTASTICO formation. http://hosted.filefront.com/GeneticDeviant

lam sorry, seems i've been using the wrong name for you!

well this thread certainly seems to have hit a bit of a chord, so well done again on that and for sticking to the thread and continuing to provide ideas to others. There is obviously some use in going back to the defaults if your custom tactic isn't working (i what you thought you knew doesn't actually work), or if you need some place to start building from. I think if people can get some moderate success with the defaults and then gradually try different things from there in a trial/error approach, then you should find in time that your knowledge of what works/doesn't work in what situations and why/why not, will see your tactical capabilities rapidly develop. The defaults may be decent in most situations, but they have their limitations, and will certainly be exposed in certain situations unless changes are made. I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with global settings (eg passing), its just that once you have the confidence to go split/individual and set things up to suit your teams style and individual talents, then you will begin to see how much better they can perform (same goes for other settings too).

I also want to make a general response to some of the questions on here, and that is don't forget that the opposition AI also changes their tactics quite often in the game, and also often quite drastically (not just their formation). Just like IRL the oppositions play will have an impact on your play for better or worse. I don't think its wise for any team, no matter how superior, to play 100% 'their own way' without any consideration of what the opposition is going to do. This might seem like a very obvious thing to say, but i have done it myself and am sure others have to when you become so focussed on getting your own tactics/settings right that you pretty much forget there is actually another team out on the pitch who are trying to win the game too! This is why in my other posts here i have talked about the need to eventually develop an understanding of the complexity of the challenges you will be faced with in this game. This has not in any way been to dismiss the validity of going 'back to basics' but rather to encourage others to be aware that there may always be a number of reasons why things don't work (and conversely why they do work) and that makes it difficult to say with any real conviction that if you experience problem 'X' it is because of reason 'Y' and you need to do 'Z' to fix it. So go back to basics (ie defualts) for sure if it helps you get a fresh perspective, but be prepared to try lots of different things (ie expand on th defualts) in order to get your team playing to their full potential.

This may also be part of the reason why the assistant feedback seems to fluctuate throughout a game (ie as in the example above where his advice switches from short passing to direct). As such, he is not purely commenting on your tactics, but also on your tactics in relation to the oppositions set up.

If you aren't already, I strongly recommend those who are new/struggling watch the matches in full detail as this is really the only way to get your head around what is happening and why. At first you may not be able to see discernible changes but after a while you will, and the game will take on a whole new dimension. Enjoy!

GD: I didnt look at that last formation and when I get time (prob not until sunday now) I'lll take a look for you. Remind me!!!!

Also..... There is a balance with my advice as the last thing I want to do is to limit you to just using the defaults. This next bit is likely to annoy you, but its the only way I can offer some advice without giving a direct answer which may not work for you.

Refer back to the default defensive tactics. Have a look at their mentalities and see how they split them. The reason I say this is because I know they work and they seem to have worked for others on here to, so, it would be crazy to simple ignore them. You will see that there are attacking functions within the team, even if those functions do not rise above normal on the sliders. What it means is that there are some players out there with something other than defence on their minds. The fact that its on a mid/high normal means that they will also be taking defence into consideration.

Another view to take to simplify the view on mentalities, rather than viewing the slider as defence, normaly and attack, view it as defence, mixed, attack. So by setting some of your players in the mixed area, they will think of both defence and attack.

Again..... this is my opinion only and please please do not let me disuaid you from continuing to use the tactics if they are working for you. I find that extream tactics (which I considered your originals to be, although you have now made changes) can work in a number of case as in the example you gave above. Sometimes you are playing so against the wing (proverb) that the opposition can not cope. But here's the problem, because the tactics are not balanced (defence was to defensive, normaly was to attacking and attack was very attacking) once the opposition counter you, which for me tends to be when a goal is scored or at around 50 mins then you are going to get buggered.

Which leads me onto my next point:

DZ:

First thing, s'okay about the name. Everyone gets it wrong, which is why I started using caps 8O)

I agree entirely with what you have written. I only ask that people remember that this is for those that are stuggling to get to grips with the game or for those that are new that do not understand how to read the match engine. Through all the previous posts I have read, I thought I could read the game, but I can see now that I did not have a clue. However, now that I am playing the modified defaults (amendments shown earlier) I can actualy read whats happening and can often (no where near all the time though) make changes before the assistant comments on this. And the beauty of it, once you become familiar with one part of the basic game, then you move onto another.

I'll give an example of this. I can now clearly see when my tempo is wrong, to slow and I find myself shouting at the screen to 'hurry it up, X is open on the wing' or when I see some really sloppy passing.

The last thing I want to do is to discourage people from moving away from the defaults because thats exactly what I want them to do in order to progress. However that said, currently, I do firmly beleive that you can be successful in this game with slightly modified defaults. DISCLAIMER: Providing they are used correctly. I think I probably change tactics (between my three defaults) a minumum of 4 times during a game and up to 6/7 times depending on the opposition.

This is the reason again that I advocate sticking with the defaults or your slightly amended defaults for at least a season. If you know they can work, then you begin to understand what you can counter with them and when you can force the play. You will look at the opposition and know that if you switched to X then you will limit their wing play, however you will lose your own, so how do you keep that, well in that case you make amendment A to your X formation.

I also agree with your comments on the assistant manager. Once the opposition switch their play different things will impact on your team. If they increase their closing down, you will get caught in possession........ hmm just had a thought there, that may be why you get players with bad passing despite the team doing well..... they are clearing as they have been caught in possession.....or they have switch players and your player can not cope with the new one so he 'is getting skinned all day long'.

So, yes, you have to be aware and the only way you can really do this is to watch the games in full. Now that I am feeling more comfortable with teh tactics I tend to find myself switching between full and extended.

LAM

Lam, again thank for your advise. i keep getting told by assistant manager that we are only having long shots, im not getting clear cut chances now. How would you improve this?

Hi Lam,

what would you do when ass man would say something like "We've not made a good job of possesion today" .

Thanks!

Lam, again thank for your advise. i keep getting told by assistant manager that we are only having long shots, im not getting clear cut chances now. How would you improve this?

I get alot of this too. Generally speaking if it looks like I will win the game I'll just leave things. If not though, then you need to work out a way of getting the ball into the box for your stikers. There are many ways of doing this but it depends on your team and your actual formation. Here are some of the thigns that I do:

Move the the MCA to the AMC position and move the MCD to the DM position, effectively creating a wide 442 diamond. Please note though. I do NOT change to the diamond defaults. Change the FWR on the MCA to mixed. Now with this, you should have someone that can feed more through balls through to your attackers.

You could give some of your strikers more RWB

Make sure they have some passing options - Remember, I am now playing with the setup of my two strikers therefore one is always more advanced that the other. With the defaults both strikers have the same settings. Have a read of this http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=2991885#post2991885 Its a very good post which I am currently using/testing.

Increase through balls from the wings.

Trying pulling the defence around a little. Have some attackers swap positions, play a little wider etc etc

Dont do all those things together as you will pull your own team apart.

Alot of the time its about stopping the game and actualy translating what the assistant manager is telling you. By telling you that you are only getting long shots he is also telling you that you are unable to get your men into the box to take shorter shots.

Having long shots is NOT the problem because it means you are getting shots on goal and at some point one of those might go in. The actual problem is NOT having short shots...... see what I mean? Once you translate the information, its alot easier to work out what to do. All he will do is comment on what he see's in the game. Occasssionaly he will tell you to do something ie 'we should get the team to try XYZ passing'. But that tends to be his limit (apart from comments on oppo players). So when you get some information, rather than seeing whats not working, look at why its not working and what you can do to change that.

Hi Lam,

what would you do when ass man would say something like "We've not made a good job of possesion today" .

Thanks!

Well.... my translation of that means that you havnt had many shots on goal. You got all the possession but it could simply be a case of passing around the back four. Again, if i refer you above to my previous comments, having possession is NOT a problem (in fact its great) but translated it means exactly what he said, your team have done absoloutley nothing with it, you have completely wasted it.

So, the question now becomes what can I do to use possession better. Generally speaking your team needs to be a little more daring which in football simply means a little more attacking. Chances are, if you are getting that message you are playing either the defensive formation or the normal one. So..... you have two options, which for me are dictated by how much possession and how much control you have (please note, you will only know how much control you have over a game if you are watching the whole game or at the bare minimum, extended highlights. If you are not, the only thing you have to go on is possession which can be dangerous as it could be all in your defensive 4 or 5 players).

If your control and possession are a bit better than take option 1. If your control and possession are alot better than take option 2.

Option 1:

Tweak your current tactic and do it slowly and little by little! Try some of the following:

Wider setting.

Slightly more attacking on team mentality (will only affect a few players) or pick players that have been making an impact, ie wingers, MCA's or AMC's.

A few more FWR's

A few more TTB's

By doing this you are just giving them a nudge to a more attackign stance and with a more attacking stance your players will be either played into more attacking positions or they will get into more attacking positions which will obviously create more opportunities.

Option 2: You are dominating.

Simple put here...... move up a tactic. Go from Defence to normal or from normal to attacking. Things to be aware of there.... you will need to check the following to ensure they are where you want them:

Team passing

Defence Line

Tempo

Width

All these thing change as you change tactic. An example of what I do. If I am playing a normal 442 the DL is in the middle, if I switch to attck it jumps up to 'push up', which is 4 clicks. Now generally speaking and working on the assumption that the middle (normal) was what I wanted when i chose the standard 442. I wont really want my team to push up to much. The middle setting was working fine, however, its not that wise (depends on circumstances) to play a deeper DL with an attacking tactic, therefore rather than leaving it where it was (middle) or having it at pushup, i will make it two clicks above the middle, which puts it between the standard tactics setting and the attacking setting. So...... I get a balance.

Now, thats what I do and it works for me (lots of emphasis there on I and me). This may not work for you or you may want to play differently. All I am doing, and again I refer you back to one of my earlier comments, is to soften the differences, which in both of the examples I gave you, you would do this.

Give it a bash and report back 8O)

BTW - anyone using this theory on something other than a 442?

LAM

****UPDATE****

Okay. 26 Games played of the first season. I am now 5th, which keeps my record of one premier division place per game played since swapping to this guide.

I am currently with 2 losses in 18 games. I am in the top four for the following: Form team (2nd), Goals scored (4th), Home form (3rd), Away form (4th). Games won in a row (2nd).

Again......if you needed and advert to convince you...........

Lam, grat feedback again. mght go with a wide diamond formation set. Any advise?

How would you set up a front two of Aguero and Benzema?

That's funny. Just recently I've checked out the defaults as well. After doing the whole TT&F thing, I wanted to shake things up.

I used the drop down box over the individual instructions and picked the type of player role I wanted.

I was surprised to see how different it was from how I was playing TT&F style.

I've now combined the 2 (mentalities) and am super happy with the tactic.

I've still made some tweaks, but the defaults are sweet.

The main thing I noticed is that very few player roles use the "often" instruction. Behavious is shaped more by removing options through "rarely".

okay ive reverted to a wide diamond formation set, have tinkered with my striker settings, one has a lower mentality than the other, and they swap positions and so far so good. very encouraging indeed.