FMO Help Thread - Ask All Your Questions In Here!!!!

Welcome to the help thread, in here, we the FMO community, will try and help you with your FM issues when trying to play online.

If your having problems hosting/joining a network game then please make sure you have read through and followed our FAQ first and this thread so save the same issue being posted over and over again.

If you are still having problems once you have followed the FAQ then please post in this thread, in order for us to then help you further, we are going to need as much information as possible from you, by this we mean the following types of information:

Operating system?

Service packs installed?

Net connection?

ISP?

Router involved?

Anti virus software?

Firewall software?

If unsure, please ask!

It is possible that you cannot play online because your firewall is preventing you from doing so, in this case you could disable your firewall and then see (test) if FM works via Online play. Obviously, some firewalls may also have configurations which will “allow†certain applications to bypass it. (Please consult your Firewall manual)

Also relating to your firewall, it is possible to “forward†ports on your router to enable FM to communicate, please note, there are many different types of modems/routers out there on the market and they all function differently too, however, if you require some more information about Port Forwarding, then please visit the following website : http://www.portforward.com/routers.htm and look for your modem in the list. The ports that require forwarding are 10093 and 10094. (Please consult your Modem/Router manual if unsure. It is your own responsibility to forward ports)

If you are not sure what your IP address is then you can use the following website to find out : http://www.whatismyip.com/ (This is the address to give to all the people you wish to join your network game)

Please remember, we will not configure your router or firewall for you, that’s upto you to do, we will only advise you on what the possible causes are that you cannot host/join a network game.

Previously Asked Questions

Q. "Does everyone in an online game need to be running the same version (with the patch or without)?"

A. Yes everyone needs to run the same version

Q. "How do I regain control of my team?"

A. "Left click on not connected under status and a pop up should appear - resume control of team x."

Q. "What do I do if I have two IP with a / in between?"

A. "This will be because the host has a router. One of the IPs is his/her internal IP and the second is his/her external IP. The host gives out the second IP to those trying to join. It can also be found at whatsmyip.com mentioned earlier in the thread.

Q. " When I try to connect a pop up saying "unable to connect to server" what do I do?

A. "The host has not forwarded ports for their router so will be unable to get people to join his/her's game. Refer back to the opening post for information on how to forward ports.

Q. " Hi I want to set up a game of FM online, do we need the same databases?"

A. "Everyone playing the game will need the exact same database in order to run a stable online game.

Q. "How do I set my holiday settings for when I am not there?"

A. After every session it is best that the host asks all players to set there holidays in the event of a players absence for the next session for whatever reason. To do this go to Manager > Go on holiday > pick your settings from the options and then disconnect from server so that when the host goes to load the game up all players should be 'not connected' in their status.

Maybe a work around for those whose are saying they can play FM07 but cannot seem to get a game of FM2008 up and running. This was posted by Flint:

All those with problems joining/making a game on 08 but could do it fine on 07, check to see if you only get one IP, if you do then this is the solution:

Go to your router settings (type in 192.168.0.1 in IE. My router will probably be different to yours but i go into a tab called WAN setup and then check the box saying 'Default DMZ Server' again this might differ depending on your router, then it should be 192.168.0.?? the last number/s you can change, change this to your local IP which you can find out in football manager, apply this and your internet will restart (make sure all your ports are open with this ip also) and then HAZAR! It's fixed.

Try doing that and see if you get any joy.

Welcome to the help thread, in here, we the FMO community, will try and help you with your FM issues when trying to play online.

If your having problems hosting/joining a network game then please make sure you have read through and followed our FAQ first and this thread so save the same issue being posted over and over again.

If you are still having problems once you have followed the FAQ then please post in this thread, in order for us to then help you further, we are going to need as much information as possible from you, by this we mean the following types of information:

Operating system?

Service packs installed?

Net connection?

ISP?

Router involved?

Anti virus software?

Firewall software?

If unsure, please ask!

It is possible that you cannot play online because your firewall is preventing you from doing so, in this case you could disable your firewall and then see (test) if FM works via Online play. Obviously, some firewalls may also have configurations which will “allow†certain applications to bypass it. (Please consult your Firewall manual)

Also relating to your firewall, it is possible to “forward†ports on your router to enable FM to communicate, please note, there are many different types of modems/routers out there on the market and they all function differently too, however, if you require some more information about Port Forwarding, then please visit the following website : http://www.portforward.com/routers.htm and look for your modem in the list. The ports that require forwarding are 10093 and 10094. (Please consult your Modem/Router manual if unsure. It is your own responsibility to forward ports)

If you are not sure what your IP address is then you can use the following website to find out : http://www.whatismyip.com/ (This is the address to give to all the people you wish to join your network game)

Please remember, we will not configure your router or firewall for you, that’s upto you to do, we will only advise you on what the possible causes are that you cannot host/join a network game.

Previously Asked Questions

Q. "Does everyone in an online game need to be running the same version (with the patch or without)?"

A. Yes everyone needs to run the same version

Q. "How do I regain control of my team?"

A. "Left click on not connected under status and a pop up should appear - resume control of team x."

Q. "What do I do if I have two IP with a / in between?"

A. "This will be because the host has a router. One of the IPs is his/her internal IP and the second is his/her external IP. The host gives out the second IP to those trying to join. It can also be found at whatsmyip.com mentioned earlier in the thread.

Q. " When I try to connect a pop up saying "unable to connect to server" what do I do?

A. "The host has not forwarded ports for their router so will be unable to get people to join his/her's game. Refer back to the opening post for information on how to forward ports.

Q. " Hi I want to set up a game of FM online, do we need the same databases?"

A. "Everyone playing the game will need the exact same database in order to run a stable online game.

Q. "How do I set my holiday settings for when I am not there?"

A. After every session it is best that the host asks all players to set there holidays in the event of a players absence for the next session for whatever reason. To do this go to Manager > Go on holiday > pick your settings from the options and then disconnect from server so that when the host goes to load the game up all players should be 'not connected' in their status.

Maybe a work around for those whose are saying they can play FM07 but cannot seem to get a game of FM2008 up and running. This was posted by Flint:

All those with problems joining/making a game on 08 but could do it fine on 07, check to see if you only get one IP, if you do then this is the solution:

Go to your router settings (type in 192.168.0.1 in IE. My router will probably be different to yours but i go into a tab called WAN setup and then check the box saying 'Default DMZ Server' again this might differ depending on your router, then it should be 192.168.0.?? the last number/s you can change, change this to your local IP which you can find out in football manager, apply this and your internet will restart (make sure all your ports are open with this ip also) and then HAZAR! It's fixed.

Try doing that and see if you get any joy.

Lucky I was on my first day! Cheers.

Hello. I can't connect to my friend to play online. We both have the same version 8.0 and same OS and such. Please help.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HeatDK:

Hello. I can't connect to my friend to play online. We both have the same version 8.0 and same OS and such. Please help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you actually bothered reading the very first post in this thread? I guess not as it tells you how to post and what information you need to provide people in order for them to help you.

I suggest you do this.

Hey sorry about that, i just rushed. The OS is windows XP. Service Pack 2. We both use broadband 4 MBit connections and there is routers involved, which are Netgear WGR614v6 and v4. We use Kaspersky Anti-virus but it works with other games. And the firewall is also Kaspersky, which also works with other games. There, I think i got it all this time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HeatDK:

Hey sorry about that, i just rushed. The OS is windows XP. Service Pack 2. We both use broadband 4 MBit connections and there is routers involved, which are Netgear WGR614v6 and v4. We use Kaspersky Anti-virus but it works with other games. And the firewall is also Kaspersky, which also works with other games. There, I think i got it all this time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have routers they will need configured. Again this is all in the opening post if you would take some time to read that would be great.

hamachi on fm08 is very unreliable any help??

2 of my mates odnt see the game in their local server list but one of them does......so the other 2 have to go via ip address??

any idea on why hamachi wont work for them?

Operating system = XP

Service packs installed = no

Net connection = 16mb

ISP = Sky Broadband

Router involved = yes, Netgear DG834GT

Anti virus software = Lavasoft - Ad-aware

Firewall software = Windows Defender

The other client is getting "unavailable to connect " message - I have run through all of the steps but i have had no luck fm07 network game works - thanks

i have given my friend the seconed part of my ip address but it still says error unable to conect to server i used to play 07 and connected to my friends fine but i cant conect to my friend on 08 he didnt hav 07

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chrisflounders:

i have given my friend the seconed part of my ip address but it still says error unable to conect to server i used to play 07 and connected to my friends fine but i cant conect to my friend on 08 he didnt hav 07 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you want help abide by the simple opening post.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> If you are still having problems once you have followed the FAQ then please post in this thread, in order for us to then help you further, we are going to need as much information as possible from you, by this we mean the following types of information:

Operating system?

Service packs installed?

Net connection?

ISP?

Router involved?

Anti virus software?

Firewall software?

If unsure, please ask!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

clearly you cant have read it. As it tells you what to do if it comes up with "unable to connect to server"

Operating system? Windows XP

Service packs installed? ? no

Net connection? 10mb

ISP? virgin ntl

Router involved? linksys wrt54g

Anti virus software? disabled

Firewall software? disabled

I have forwarded ports, disabled all anti virus or firewall stuff yet still nobody can connect to me

Operating system? Windows XP

Service packs installed? no

Net connection? 4 meg

ISP? Virgin

Router involved? Bulldog WYR-G54 i think

Anti virus software? avast

Firewall software? windows firewall

Tried what was posted in FAQ and help... not worked and no have no idea what else to do, my m8 has done that aswell =/

FM08 Lag Issues:-

Operating system? XP

Service packs installed? No

Net connection? 2MB

ISP? Aol

Router involved? Netgear

Anti virus software? None

Firewall software? Windows

Hey there, been playing Football Manager online for quite a while and have come across something i haven't witnessed before in FM08. My friend who has the same operating system as me hosts the game. Now we've been through all the port forwarding malarkey and i've successfully joined his game. The problem now is when i try to take control of my team, the game becomes non responsive and i have to crash out of the game. The ball cursor just appears and it doesn't let me do anything. We've also tried it while i host and his side freezes too! When we play over a LAN it's absolutely fine, it just seems to be an internet issue.

1) Has anyone else had this problem? and:-

2) Does anyone know how to fix this?

Help would be greatfully appreciated

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. T aka gus griswald:

Operating system = XP

Service packs installed = no

Net connection = 16mb

ISP = Sky Broadband

Router involved = yes, Netgear DG834GT

Anti virus software = Lavasoft - Ad-aware

Firewall software = Windows Defender

The other client is getting "unavailable to connect " message - I have run through all of the steps but i have had no luck fm07 network game works - thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had this problem with a Netgear router before. There is a page in the router setting (192.168.0.1) called services, add the ports 10093 and 10094 to TCP and UDP. Then in Firewall Rules add that service to the inbound services list.

Try after doing that.

I need some more help on the "unable to connect" part?

The host or someone connecting has not forwarded ports for their router so will be unable to join. Refer back to the opening post for information on how to forward ports.

I dont get that bit, anyone able to help?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also relating to your firewall, it is possible to “forward†ports on your router to enable FM to communicate, please note, there are many different types of modems/routers out there on the market and they all function differently too, however, if you require some more information about Port Forwarding, then please visit the following website : http://www.portforward.com/routers.htm and look for your modem in the list. The ports that require forwarding are 10093 and 10094. (Please consult your Modem/Router manual if unsure. It is your own responsibility to forward ports) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

does hamachi work with fm08? me and my friend played fm07 all the time on it now it 09 won't show the game in the menu and won't connect even if we go through ip address!! Any ideas?? its really annoyin me!!!

woops meant to say 08 up there not 09 sorry!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Tell him to close fm and hamachi then restart hamachi the restart fm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was in the old help thread regarding a similar situation.

can someone tell how to forwarding ports

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by saints ledgend:

can someone tell how to forwarding ports </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All the information you need is in the opening post.

When I try to play a network game CPU usage runs at 100% and it goes at an unplayable speed. This is despite my 1gb of RAM + my friends fairly decent computer, and the fact both of us can run single player with lots of leagues and no problems. We are on a University LAN network, however, lots of our mates on this network and other people outside (including some who have posted on this site) have experienced similar problems. Is this an issue with the games' processes? If you guys can't help do you know of anyone that may be able to?

Maybe your Uni network admin might be able to help,.

you may also want to check if there are any new drivers for your network card also.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mightyb1ue:

FM08 Lag Issues:-

Operating system? XP

Service packs installed? No

Net connection? 2MB

ISP? Aol

Router involved? Netgear

Anti virus software? None

Firewall software? Windows

Hey there, been playing Football Manager online for quite a while and have come across something i haven't witnessed before in FM08. My friend who has the same operating system as me hosts the game. Now we've been through all the port forwarding malarkey and i've successfully joined his game. The problem now is when i try to take control of my team, the game becomes non responsive and i have to crash out of the game. The ball cursor just appears and it doesn't let me do anything. We've also tried it while i host and his side freezes too! When we play over a LAN it's absolutely fine, it just seems to be an internet issue.

1) Has anyone else had this problem? and:-

2) Does anyone know how to fix this?

Help would be greatfully appreciated </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I can confirm that I am also having this problem. My mate and I can both create and join FM2008 network games on our respective PC's in our flat as we could with FM2007. I honestly couldn't tell you whether the network game is via the internet or the LAN, such is my limited technical knowledge.

When he tried to join my savegame, he had exactly the same problem that you had. We tried switching it around (my machine is slightly more powerful) and when I tried to join his savegame it slowed for a bit, but I got in and it was business as usual. However, when we continue the game, as it moves on it kicks me out to the game status screen. I have to re-join, which doesn't take very long and the game does progress, but on one occasion as a result of being booted I missed out on being able to respond to a news item. Only a few days into the game so far, so it remains to be seen as to whether this problem continues.

This doesn't sound like a firewall or router problem as I would have thought under those circumstances a connection would be blocked period. Neither of us have installed the beta patch yet, which I have only found out about today, so maybe that should be the initial task?

Operating system? XP (both machines)

Service packs installed? Yes (Windows downloads updates automatically on both machines)

Net connection? 1MB

ISP? Nildram

Router involved? Yes - but I've had it for 5 years - set up by a techie friend and have no idea what it is (I'll see if I can find out when I get home)

Anti virus software? Sophos

Firewall software? Windows + Sophos

I also should mention that this issue has been raised several times in the bugs forum and one or two posters have been referred to this forum for assistance:

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums?a=search&reqWor...Type=1&search=Search

does every one who wants to join my game i am hosting have to port forward or just the host

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jokey:

does every one who wants to join my game i am hosting have to port forward or just the host </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Normally just the host, but each player will have to check upon trying to join the game, it may be that their computer has security settings which stops them from joining, ie Firewall, Router

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KingOfFM:

I need some more help on the "unable to connect" part?

The host or someone connecting has not forwarded ports for their router so will be unable to join. Refer back to the opening post for information on how to forward ports.

I dont get that bit, anyone able to help? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Read the opening post, there is a link to a site which tells you how to forward "ports" for your router which will enable you to host or join a game if you are having problems.

i need a little assistance getting my game to work online, and yes i have read the info provided i used to play the other FM's online no problems, cant seem to get this1 to work .

OS:winXP

net connection: 20Meg

isp:Vigin Media

Firewall:Comodo

AV: uninstalled

Router:linksys (ports 10093-10094 opened tcp/udp)

Also added ports to win firewall and comodo, tried it with comodo and win firewall off, still same :/

Hi, I'm having problems with setting up a network game.

OS: Windows XP

SP: not sure

Net connection 20mb

ISP: Virgin Media

Router: Scientific Atlanta EPC2100R2

AV: Norton 360

Firewall: disabled

I tried going through the link about forwarding ports but my routher was not listed, and the only other one by Scientific atlanta did not list FM 08, only FM05 and 06.

I would really appreciate some advice.

OS: Windows XP

SP: don't really know

Net connection: don't know exactly

ISP: ??

Router: sitecom

Firewall: windows firewall

I played FM07 online with 2 mates via Hamachi. Now with fm08 this doesn't work anymore. There is no game coming up in the local network list... Nothing is changed in my system or settings though

heya, i am having some trouble getting people to connect to my server, i dont have a router as i am using a direct connection from my pc into the broadband box. my firewalls are off and everything is set-up as it should be, but anyone trying to connect to my fm2008 wont let it happen, and i cant connect to anyone either any help please?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Operating system? windows xp

Service packs installed?

Net connection? virgin broadband

ISP?82.11.192.210

Router involved? on friends and port forwarding completed

Anti virus software? mcafee

Firewall software? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>mcafee but have set to allow connection to friends ip address

any help in getting us connected will be greatly appreciated, i have read all the info above twice and am still unable to connect to a game, thanks

Operating system= xp

Service packs installed= none

Net connection= not sure, but its cable broadband

ISP=virgin

Router involved= no

Anti virus software= panda, but off

Firewall software= panda, but off

heya, i am having some trouble getting people to connect to my server, i dont have a router as i am using a direct connection from my pc into the broadband box. my firewalls are off and everything is set-up as it should be, but anyone trying to connect to my fm2008 wont let it happen, and i cant connect to anyone either any help please?

Me and a mate are trying to start a network game.

we both have hamachi and that is on.

but when i go to type in his ip address on join other server it says unable to connect to server.

does anyone have any idea why this is doing that?

also, it always worked fine on 2007 with the exact same setup

help much appreciated, cheers.

For the ones, like me, having problems hosting a game in fm08 who could easly host games in fm07:

as with fm07 was fine, I think we did all right (firewalls, port fowarding, etc).

One of the things that with 08 could be changed is the driver required. As in the old Help Thread, closed few days ago, there seem to be someone who solved his problems updating the network card or something like that, we should try doing it.

I'm telling you because I can't find any updates for mine, but if someone else trys and manages to solve his problem then it will be clear that it is the reason.

Cheers

hi

please help me and my mate used to play fm online all the time on the 07 version now we have tried to start playin on the new one but it dont work.

he tells me the ip and it works. i get to chose my team, then it goes to the news as normal with the first three messages sayin chairmans expectations, coach report and so on then. i can change the budget at the news and continue. but as soon as i press squad it goes there but cant do owt until eventually it cuts me off and goes to the join server screen. does this everytime.

i tied few things off opening post but not technical on computers and struggle to understand

can u help?

I only have one IP, it wont give me the WAN IP to give to people so they cant join me and i cant join them.

Router is set up !!!!

Network drivers are up to date !!!!

HELP ME

PLEASE

me and my friend want to start an online game .. we have never dont it before and i dont know how to do it at all. after i go to network what do i do ? we need all the help we can get please help as i have never tried this before.

much appreciated.

have playing fm2007 network game with my brother already. It's ok for the computer's network connection. Thus, we wanna to play fm2008 beta together. When my brother create a new game, I can see my brother network game name in my computer. Unfortunely, when I click the network game name, it became no respone and the cursor change to be a football icon. How can I solve this problem.

All of those who had no problems with 07 and now are having loads with 08. What are your operating systems?

I have windows XP service pack 2. Just wondering if it was something to do with that.

Oh and is there some sort of patch coming to fix this? The lack of direct support from sigames is quite frankly ridiculous. A big thanks to all those trying to help

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">me and my friend want to start an online game .. we have never dont it before and i dont know how to do it at all. after i go to network what do i do ? we need all the help we can get please help as i have never tried this before.

much appreciated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i know it shows how to with 07 but it will be very similar.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flint:

All of those who had no problems with 07 and now are having loads with 08. What are your operating systems?

I have windows XP service pack 2. Just wondering if it was something to do with that.

Oh and is there some sort of patch coming to fix this? The lack of direct support from sigames is quite frankly ridiculous. A big thanks to all those trying to help </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please do not start blaming the game as there are already a few games up and running in this forum so something tells me its not the game at all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andy H:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flint:

All of those who had no problems with 07 and now are having loads with 08. What are your operating systems?

I have windows XP service pack 2. Just wondering if it was something to do with that.

Oh and is there some sort of patch coming to fix this? The lack of direct support from sigames is quite frankly ridiculous. A big thanks to all those trying to help </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please do not start blaming the game as there are already a few games up and running in this forum so something tells me its not the game at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem is that most of the people that can't play on-line with fm08 were able to play with fm07, so it would be appreciated to hear from the staff what's new in the new game about on-line configuration or requirements, as for most of us the answers given till now are not helpful.

Hi

was wandering if anyone could help?

Got FM2008 succesfully running over a network! and the day to day running of the teams is fine(though slower after beta patch) but the main problem is the games! for some reason the Non-server games are running incredibly slow! any suggestions?

thanks

YES! I have fixed it

All those with problems joining/making a game on 08 but could do it fine on 07, check to see if you only get one IP, if you do then this is the solution:

Go to your router settings (type in 192.168.0.1 in IE. My router will probably be different to yours but i go into a tab called WAN setup and then check the box saying 'Default DMZ Server' again this might differ depending on your router, then it should be 192.168.0.?? the last number/s you can change, change this to your local IP which you can find out in football manager, apply this and your internet will restart (make sure all your ports are open with this ip also) and then HAZAR! It's fixed.

I really hope this helps all those with this problem

Operating system - Windows XP Home Edition

Service packs installed - SP 2

Net connection - 6mb

ISP - BE Broadband

Router involved - SpeedTouch 780

Anti virus software - None

Firewall software - None

Someone please help! I have forwarded the 10093 and 10094 ports aswell but still nobody can connect to me!

I've followed all the steps on here.. and I was able to play FM07 too!

Any help would be appreciated!

Read the post above!

ive had it now, fed up with this game already!! Forwarded ports, updated drivers everything firewall and everything and it won't work why couldn't they just leave it the way it was in 07