FM Genie Scout and Cheating

I've read some posts (you can read the quotes below) saying that FM Scout isn't cheating because the AI can see exactly how many CA and PA does a player have. Is it true? Can someone give more information about it?

Exactly my point. Also they always know EXACTLY how much to offer for a player (sometimes they make lower bids, but that's about 1 out of 50). When i see a players sale value, and a club is bidding, it merely is more then 1M euro more then the coded sale value.

Apart from that often i have players with no potential (really a 90 ca -> 98 pa ) that are scouted as huge talents and vice versa. Somehow AI never makes these mistakes.

Exactly my point. Also they always know EXACTLY how much to offer for a player (sometimes they make lower bids, but that's about 1 out of 50). When i see a players sale value, and a club is bidding, it merely is more then 1M euro more then the coded sale value.

Apart from that often i have players with no potential (really a 90 ca -> 98 pa ) that are scouted as huge talents and vice versa. Somehow AI never makes these mistakes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But AI managers have stats that determine how accurately they can see CA/PA - plus AI managers have to rely on their scouts as well. Otherwise all the good players would be snapped up by AI teams in the first week of the game.

AI does make these mistakes, you just don't notice them as they're not the players that come up when you cheat by using genie scout. Mistakes happen in real life, both by you and others, and you have to accept that you'll make bad signings, and so will other managers, as part of the game.

No it not cheating.The AI can see CA/PA and buy players based on it.

yes it's true

My opinion is this: It's your game to do with as you wish.

If you want to use Genie scout, or save and reload or use the editor or FMEditor or whatever you want, then do so.

Nobody can tell you how to play the game.

If it makes you happy, then do what you want.

It's a game.

I think you haven't understood me, I'm asking if someone has some proof or agument for or against the fact (or the lie) that the AI knows exactly the player's CA and PA.

Presumably not. The only way AI could recognise how good a player is, would be by 'reading' the CA in a certain way, buw how accurately this is will be based on their (AI manager) attributes and perhaps some chance.

You may or may not be aware, however, that this is completely beside your own point. If AI was able to read CA and PA directly, then using some scout tool or whatever would still be cheating, as the AI would've been meant to do that. Whether or not it's fair, or whether or not you are justified in using such a tool, is completely up to your own judgement however.

yes it's true

Presumably not. The only way AI could recognise how good a player is, would be by 'reading' the CA in a certain way, buw how accurately this is will be based on their (AI manager) attributes and perhaps some chance.

You may or may not be aware, however, that this is completely beside your own point. If AI was able to read CA and PA directly, then using some scout tool or whatever would still be cheating, as the AI would've been meant to do that. Whether or not it's fair, or whether or not you are justified in using such a tool, is completely up to your own judgement however.

I'm not using Genie Scout in any FM game actually, I just feel curious about whatever the AI can see exactly a players CA and PA or not.

The AI must know what the values are. It's all data and programming anyway.

BUT, and it's a "Vanessa Feltz after an all you can eat pie night" sized but, Kipfizhs Bandit experiment has proven that the AI adjusts itself to not just buy the best all the time.

Although anyone who's ever decided to magically create a superstar with a save editor and found the whole world aware of them in two days knows, the AI sure can tell who will be good, even if they are modified via their JPA to not "see" them.

VB

I am sure the AI are programmed to read CA and PA but not perfectly. It is programmed to appear that it is human and so is programmed to make mistakes in its judgments the same as any human could. I am certain that is how it should behave anyway and is the aim.

I think you haven't understood me, I'm asking if someone has some proof or agument for or against the fact (or the lie) that the AI knows exactly the player's CA and PA.

You're right, I misunderstood.

Apologies.

I couldn't offer proof either for or against your OP, sorry.

I am sure the AI are programmed to read CA and PA but not perfectly. It is programmed to appear that it is human and so is programmed to make mistakes in its judgments the same as any human could. I am certain that is how it should behave anyway and is the aim.

They have an unfair advantage though, the best way to find great young players isnt to scout yourself, just find out who Juve, Barca, Milan, Man U etc are interested in and go for those players. They never get it wrong.

I believe its a lot to do with reputation as well. It always seems to me that the players with high potential that get the big moves have a high reputation.

If you edit a players details (high PA and attributes) the AI are making offers in no time. There is no way they scout a player first.

If you edit a players details (high PA and attributes) the AI are making offers in no time. There is no way they scout a player first.

Not entirely true. I once put a player in the game and gave him 200 PA and a very low reputation and there were no offers for him.

Took 5 days without a ball being kicked.

Experiment 1 ( going beyond CA/PA) :

Load Belarussian League , find any low ability striker , fmm edit his striker position to 90 , wait 1 week ( while playing no games at all)

Seems like all European clubs are constantly scouting Belarus , no ?

Experiment 2 ( "hidden" stats) :

Load any of the big clubs and edit one of the players with Loyalty 20 and "Favorite club" your club, give him a PA 200 and CA around 140 , contract him as "back up" . Run pre-season to see if you will have any offers for him ; now reload and edit his loyalty to 1 and rerun pre-season , see what happens .

Experiment 3 - this can be tricky "AI transfer focus" : In a small database load a medium club in a big League ( Something like Everton or Athletic Madrid) , edit all your 1st team players to CA around 150 & PA around 160 , then go and edit all left backs but one as different position so you only have 1 left back , edit his PA 130 and CA 135 , see for who AI teams will bid .

I can remember there was 1 game I bidded 10 million pounds for an unused Darren Bent at Tottenham. I was told to pay 15million instead.

I rejected the offer, and the next news I received was Sunderland having a 5 million pound bid for Bent accepted. I thus bid 5million for Bent and it was accepted.

I opened up FM Genie and Bent sale value was at 5 million! Very fishy.

Another funny incident was I had 2 youth strikers at my club. One was Henrik Ojama and the other was a regen whose name escapes me now. Ojama was immense for me, he had 18 for finishing and heading, and about 15 for strength, jumping and pace/acceleration. Furthermore, I played him as a sub a few times, and he managed to score a few goals.

The other youth player had high pace/acceleration and off the ball. However the rest of his stats were dismal. He had an attitude problem and I regretted buying him.

Well, Man Utd, Milan and Inter bidded for him and I sold him for a nice sum. But when I open FM Genie, I was just totally mad to see that his PA was 190.

Fortunately, he didn't have an amazing career and although he had CA 180+, his primary stats like finishing etc still lose out to Ojama.

Btw, Ojama PA was just 130

The AI managers have as much grasp of PA as your scouts do- slightly more if their scouts are better.

Themistofellis: The first experiment is completely the wrong way of testing something. You're going outside the perimetres set down in the game (positions out of 20) and as a result, there will be odd results.

Themistofellis: The first experiment is completely the wrong way of testing something. You're going outside the perimetres set down in the game (positions out of 20) and as a result, there will be odd results.

The thing is that AI "scouting" gets out of game parameters and can spot a player with the ability to score 200 goals in a season (even if he is not playing and even if his present and future ability is not more than 1 ) ; my point :AI sees everything

I would have thought the judging PA and CA hidden staff stat would have had something to do with this. I imagine if it is a lower number, it puts more fudge in the number, leading a player to be over or underrated. and vice versa, if it is a higher number, AI managers know exactly who to buy for what position.

From what I understand, the AI managers can see the CA but not the PA. They rely on judgement, their scouts judgement, etc. to tell what the PA is just as we do. With CA? They see it in a filtered way, but so do we. If I gave you a striker with 200 CA and a striker with 150 CA, you'd soon be able to tell which was which just on the attributes.

hope this works

This screenshot shows Wengers Judging PA and Judging CA stat. It follows that if these stats are present in the game, the AI managers cannot see CA and PA as a clear number. They must make educated guesses, like us the players about which players to buy and who will be good for their team. Also these stats would naturally be enhanced by things such as good scouting networks.