Tax seems very high

Just wondered if their are any accountants out there

I'm playing italliano in the Argentine L1 we have to sell players to pay the wage bill et al (around £10mill)

So far this season our income has been around £1.5M ( including player sales) a month but we are paying £1million a month tax so for the last 3 months we made a loss

It looks loke we will make £3mill in profit for the year but will have paid £13mill in tax

(we mad a profit last year of £11.5mill)

I have never noticed paying so much before is it just in Argentina?

Any ideas?

Tax isn't more than 100% anywhere.

-'Right, here's your £100, and as the taxman, I want £140 of that."

Perhaps the game or you has months and years confused?

The only thing I can think of is that transfer money is taxed separately to profit as 85% of my turnover is player sales

Not really looked into the Tax Module that much, but if I'm not mistaken TAX in Britain anyway would include NI Contributions as well - not sure if the Argies have anything similar. If they do, give me a little while to read through that very interesting document posted above and I'll let you know.

The main problem with the Tax Module that I have looked at is all tax is put into one line and not different lines. It is hard to tell what tax you have paid and what tax should be due because of this. Sadly it would be too much work for SI to do any other work for the tax line - or any other line (mainly "other").

Please note though, you are not only taxed on the monthly profit you make, but on what income you have - and some purchases too (VAT).

This is my finances

Have you got the income table for me. I will do a rough calculation sometime during the night/tomorrow and will let you know how far out the figures are.

The biggest Tax problem I see is the fact that you have bought approx 4m worth of players, while sold £17m worth. Both of these figures, should in theory have some tax placed on them. Then if Argies do have a wage tax of some sort (like Employer NI Contributions here in the UK) then you are taxed on wages paid out too. Then there is tax in all other forms of turnover not to mention their version of VAT on other items paid for (where applicable).

Sadly the finance module is rather basic in terms, and gives you know real idea on what is being taxed.

I had a similar problem in my game. It seems that you pay tax based on the profits you made last season, regardless of whether that profit is sustainable. Making big profits fast through player sales seem to sting us the following year, leaving us no better off than we were before, just with a worse squad.

Try again

those tax figures are bizarre. was trying to find some sort of corrolation between the figures and couldnt find any what so ever.

would a company tax of about 50% (like it is in England) be more or less about what is paid there

20m (income) x .5 (50% as a decimal) = 11m (tax)

would a company tax of about 50% (like it is in England) be more or less about what is paid there

20m (income) x .5 (50% as a decimal) = 11m (tax)

You normally get some allowance for your spending. Profit was only 11.5m last year

Playing the next season now and still paying £1.1m in tax a month. We only made 775k last season after paying 14m in tax

This has answered a question I had about tax. For some reason mine had over doubled from the previous season, I guess it's that yearly profit thing. Annoying.

Income tax is quite similar all over the world. Obviously there are variations in different countries, but overall tax is paid on profit made. Now in saying this, i firmly believe that the tax system has been extremely poor in the FM for quite a while now and there seems to be zero imporovement. I look at it, and the most reasonable idea would be that SI are modelling thier programmed tax system on the British system. Now i'm pretty sure that British companies dont pay the 80% tax that is programmed into the game.

Tax systems are supposed to take into account income v's losses in the financial year. Its not a targeted thing, its an overall thing. They dont tax seperate companies depending on if they do better within a certain part of thier business. It would be like them taxing a McDonalds store depending on how many cheeseburgers they sold.Hitting them for eighty percent there and thirty for everything else. The thing is I dont think they modelled off anything. From what i've gathered after watching this for the last three versions i think, is that they dont actually know what they are doing in this regard. Not saying i could do any better I couldn't, but i'm not being paid to make it right either.

I feel for most of us who enjoy building a club, as this issue hurts overall growth. I feel SI really need to have a good look into it, and find a suitable model and stick to it. But I would trade this for a better ME anyday.

Income tax is quite similar all over the world. Obviously there are variations in different countries, but overall tax is paid on profit made. Now in saying this, i firmly believe that the tax system has been extremely poor in the FM for quite a while now and there seems to be zero imporovement. I look at it, and the most reasonable idea would be that SI are modelling thier programmed tax system on the British system. Now i'm pretty sure that British companies dont pay the 80% tax that is programmed into the game.

Tax systems are supposed to take into account income v's losses in the financial year. Its not a targeted thing, its an overall thing. They dont tax seperate companies depending on if they do better within a certain part of thier business. It would be like them taxing a McDonalds store depending on how many cheeseburgers they sold.Hitting them for eighty percent there and thirty for everything else. The thing is I dont think they modelled off anything. From what i've gathered after watching this for the last three versions i think, is that they dont actually know what they are doing in this regard. Not saying i could do any better I couldn't, but i'm not being paid to make it right either.

I feel for most of us who enjoy building a club, as this issue hurts overall growth. I feel SI really need to have a good look into it, and find a suitable model and stick to it. But I would trade this for a better ME anyday.

Isnt it more like - Tax is paid on all income. Profit is the net positive result to club, ie Income Minus Expenditure (ie. Overheads, tax)

No - In most western countries - TAX is paid on GROSS PROFIT (essentially) - ie - you can write off costs before having to pay tax...even individuals can do this to some extent...you dont get taxed on costs, you dont get taxed on total turnover, you get taxed on profit...essentially it goes like this - REVENUE - EXPENSES = GROSS PROFIT, GROSS PROFIT - TAX (on GROSS PROFIT) = NET PROFIT AFTER TAX (thats very simplified - there are a whole raft of other breakdowns - such as EBIT = Earnings BEFORE INTEREST and TAX for example, but thats essentially how it works)...

Is tax a combination of more taxes?:

- (corporate) income tax

- VAT

- Wage tax

Then your tax could very well be higher than your profit, thanks to VAT and wagetax.

Why can't we do what most English clubs do.......................and just not pay tax??!!!!

No - In most western countries - TAX is paid on GROSS PROFIT (essentially) - ie - you can write off costs before having to pay tax...even individuals can do this to some extent...you dont get taxed on costs, you dont get taxed on total turnover, you get taxed on profit...essentially it goes like this - REVENUE - EXPENSES = GROSS PROFIT, GROSS PROFIT - TAX (on GROSS PROFIT) = NET PROFIT AFTER TAX (thats very simplified - there are a whole raft of other breakdowns - such as EBIT = Earnings BEFORE INTEREST and TAX for example, but thats essentially how it works)...

You better tell HMRC that then. As they are chasing Dundee Football Club for tax that wasn't paid on money put in by Mr Melville. As Mr Melville did not say it was a loan, they are chasing for their share of that income.

If it was on profit, then a lot of football clubs wouldn't pay any tax at all. As well, football is not a profitable business in most places.

You better tell HMRC that then. As they are chasing Dundee Football Club for tax that wasn't paid on money put in by Mr Melville. As Mr Melville did not say it was a loan, they are chasing for their share of that income.

If it was on profit, then a lot of football clubs wouldn't pay any tax at all. As well, football is not a profitable business in most places.

Yes, and quite right too. If it is a gift, then then increases income, which therefore increases profit, which therefore increases tax payable.

If it's a loan, then cost of repayment = income, so both income and cost increase, no change on profit, therefore tax liability doesn't change.

The thing is we're not talking about Tax as if it is one big bad thing. It's not. A Football Club will be charged as follows, Incom tax (tax on income minus cost of said income), VAT on anything VATable, Wage Tax (National Insruance Contributions for example), Cooncil Tax etc. etc. etc.

Football Clubs are though at times allowed a reducting on their tax bill if they are "in the red". This is where most clubs hit **** creek with the HMRC, as they don't bother either a) finding out when it is due to be paid back or b) "forget" to pay the remainder back or c) don't tell the whole truth about certain income.

If it was on profit, then a lot of football clubs wouldn't pay any tax at all. As well, football is not a profitable business in most places.

He's perfectly correct. Gross means all money coming in, not money reduced after expenses. That's Net profit.

Some countries, like the US, dont have a VAT.

The best way to handle this tax problem is to have a simple rate for all clubs in a universe. It would be a nightmare to try to replicate the tax code in each separate country.

I once had the problem in Argentina on FM09. Playing as Gimnasia I was taxed £10m one year for no apparent reason. It must be a bug.

Hes perfectly wrong - of course you are allowed to deduct expenses (cost of business)...either lear the law or dont comment - you are a completely wrong!

You are completely wrong - of course you are allowed to deduct expenses (cost of business)...either learn the law or dont comment - you clearly no absolutely zero about tax law, accounting, HM Government or anything!