Ridiculous 'game of two halves syndrome'

Has anybody else noticed a stupid case on this game of two completely different games of football between the halves? Before people start blabbering rubbish about tactics etc, don't, it's not tactics. Basically, if you happen to go 3, 4 or 5-0 up in the first half and just paste the opposition, 95% of the time you won't score again. You are likely to win by either the same scoreline, or the opposition will pull one or two back. (This is the case unless you're playing very inferior opposition, such as in a friendly or Cup game.)

Equally, it's got to the stage on my save where I'm just trying to damage limitate before half time. The best scenario is if I go in 1-0 down, as I can give the never failing 'I want to see more from you' team talk without already being out of the game. Often I can turn things around this way, regardless of how much I've been pasted in the first half (you wouldn't think a bit of a shout would turn a team from completely inept to completely dominating, would you?). If I've been completely battered in the first half and am 3 or 4 goals down, I can usually lose 4-2 by ranting at half time.

I'm not saying it ruins the game because any close games are realistic. Just look out for the next time you're 3-0 up at half time and then in the second half you dont create a chance (and no, I don't think I should have to change my tactics - if my tactics are good enough to batter the opposition in the first half then they should be good enough to at least play reasonably well in the second, regardless of what the opposition do).

I just wondered if anybody has noticed this, and finds it as daft as I do.

Yea, I completely agree. Usually, my team plays very well in the first half and, when they fail to convert chances in the first half, I'm furious because I know they'll create nothing in the second half.

Has anybody else noticed a stupid case on this game of two completely different games of football between the halves? Before people start blabbering rubbish about tactics etc, don't, it's not tactics. Basically, if you happen to go 3, 4 or 5-0 up in the first half and just paste the opposition, 95% of the time you won't score again. You are likely to win by either the same scoreline, or the opposition will pull one or two back. (This is the case unless you're playing very inferior opposition, such as in a friendly or Cup game.)

Equally, it's got to the stage on my save where I'm just trying to damage limitate before half time. The best scenario is if I go in 1-0 down, as I can give the never failing 'I want to see more from you' team talk without already being out of the game. Often I can turn things around this way, regardless of how much I've been pasted in the first half (you wouldn't think a bit of a shout would turn a team from completely inept to completely dominating, would you?). If I've been completely battered in the first half and am 3 or 4 goals down, I can usually lose 4-2 by ranting at half time.

I'm not saying it ruins the game because any close games are realistic. Just look out for the next time you're 3-0 up at half time and then in the second half you dont create a chance (and no, I don't think I should have to change my tactics - if my tactics are good enough to batter the opposition in the first half then they should be good enough to at least play reasonably well in the second, regardless of what the opposition do).

I just wondered if anybody has noticed this, and finds it as daft as I do.

Ever watched a real life game of football??

Try being more critical of your team.

I don't observe this issue nearly as often as you do, but it seems pretty realistic in my opinion. If you are winning like crazy at half time, most teams face motivation issues to put up the same performance levels in the second half. On the flip side, the team that's embarrassed has extra incentive to change things any way they can.

Anyways, unless I'm playing a lesser side or am comfortably up at home, I usually scale back to a more defensive mentality for second half play.

This has been talked about a lot.

Teams that are 3, 4 or 5 nil up at half-time in real life very rarely go on to score many more goals, as Cougar hints. The game's not unrealistic in that sense. Unless you have a team full of players with very high professionalism and determination, there's bound to be a bit of complacency setting in when you're that far ahead. That's on top of an opposition team who's had a rocket at half-time, and are either going to put men behind the ball to limit the damage or go all-out with nothing to lose, while you're sticking to the same tactics.

If you have a game where you think the half-time turnaround is particularly hard to believe though, PaulC has asked for people to upload PKMs and send them to him to have a look at. So far I don't think anyone has.

What Scott1990 talks about is a bit different - if you're heavy favourites for a game, and especially if you use a teamtalk like 'expect a win' and have players with poor pressure attributes, there's a good chance that a few of them will be 'playing nervously' if they can't get in the lead in the first half. Again, that's sometihng that happens in real life all the time - the longer the games goes on without a breakthrough, the more strikers are on edge and lose their composure in front of goal. Plus the opposition are likely to alter their tactics to be more and more defensive as the chance of a draw gets closer.

(and no, I don't think I should have to change my tactics - if my tactics are good enough to batter the opposition in the first half then they should be good enough to at least play reasonably well in the second, regardless of what the opposition do).

If the opposition change their tactics for the second half and decide to put a lot of players behind the ball and play on counter attacks, any smart manager would change his tactics to render the opposition's new tactic useless. When you don't do this, they usually end up scoring.

To be honest I don't care about them scoring. If I was 3-0 up at half time, I'd expect they might come at me and maybe score 1 or 2. Equally, though, you'd think that while they were going for the jugular a chance might actually pop up for me. It doesn't. It's either relentless from them or nothing at all. That's my beef.

Bonus points to the OP for use of the word "limitate"

It's down to team talks having too much influence.

Generally, if one team scores loads of goals in the first half, they'll score less in the second. If they're expected to win, then they may pick up after a bad first half.

Very rarely is a scoreline sustained for a match.

I cmpletely agree. When i go 4 nil up say keep it up it stays 4 nil so i change my tactics to attacking, creates chances but still nothing. OK inreal life they lay back but if i tell them not to i expect thm to annialate them!

It's down to team talks having too much influence.

This I do agree with, however I will contradict myself here. As at times I am baffled, as to why the game could of been lost.

I have expermented with this, by either for a admitantly brief period of time I thought to myself there must be some sorm of system to crack. I have tried:-

() Doing nothing, say whatever I feel appropriate for the team talk at half time I watch the game, so if they were poor I would say so. If were fantastic then I would say so.

() The rule of thumb method, away from home be more optimistic/less harsh. Home be harsher and more demanding.

() Just say the opposite of what you want to say at half time.

In my opinion there are few too many other mitigating factors, however I do agree with the choice/selecting the correct half time team talk can cost you the game.

I think its because, the game has to imitate what happens in real life. However things happen more often in FM than real life. If it happened any less, people would complain that it was 'impossible' to come back from behind, and giving your players the 'hairdrier' treatment at halftime was too ineffective.

Its hard for SI to strike the right balance between effective/ineffective team talks, and second half performance turnarounds.

Often when a team is hammered in the first half, it rallies in the second half for some pride, while the attacking team eases off knowing the match is won. However sometimes the opposite happens and the battered team gives up and capitualtes further in the second half. I think the game should include this too somehow.

To make up for my sarcasm yesterday these are the premiership results from last season where a team was 3 goals up at half time:

24.05.09

Arsenal v Stoke (HT 4-1, FT 4-1)

02.05.09

Man City v Blackburn (HT 3-0, FT 3-1)

22.03.09

Liverpool v Aston Villa (HT 3-0, FT 5-0)

04.03.09

Tottenham v Middlesborough (HT 3-0, FT 4-0)

27.01.09

Tottenham v Stoke (HT 3-0, FT 3-1)

26.12.08

Man City V Hull (HT 4-0, FT 5-1)

20.12.08

Blackburn v Stoke (HT 3-0, FT 3-0)

13.12.08

Sunderland v West Brom (HT 3-0, FT 4-0)

15.11.08

West Brom v Chelsea (HT 0-3, FT 0-3)

01.11.08

Chelsea v Sunderland (HT 3-0, FT 5-0)

17.08.08

Chelsea v Portsmouth (HT 3-0, FT 4-0)

16.08.08

Bolton v Stoke (HT 3-0, FT 3-1)

The first thing to notice is that only 12 out of 380 premiership games last season resulted in a team being 3+ goals up at HT (3.16%). Thats less than one match per team per season but to show the swing Chelsea were the leading side on three occasions while Stoke the losing side on four occasions.

But in reference to the original poster you can clearly see that no team went on to "hammer" the opposition in the second half with none of these games having more than two goals in the second half.

But Couger, there are plenty that go on to win by scoring 4 or 5. Most of them score at least one again. That doesn't happen on FM as I see it. 90% of the time you don't score again. I don't expect to go on and win 10-0 or even 6-0 or anything. Just a reasonably competent second half performance will do.

PS Keys - it seemed the most appropriate word ;-)

Well in the results above the leading side has only scored more in the second half on 50% of the occasions which is significantly lower than I get the impression you expect.

I'll have a look at my save tonight and see how I do on FM.

PS I don't understand your "Keys" reference.

Read the thread below...offer alot of insight on why players stopped playing or performing in the 2nd half.

Motivation, Pressure, Confidence - The 3 Key factors!

I do find it very irritating when this happens as I have changed tactics to go all out attack in the second half just for fun but it has done nothing. Most irritating thing about team talks is that often in a big game against a big club being 1-0 up at half time is one of the worst things that can happen since the opposition so often come out and win even if you change your tactics again. I recently played arsenal and shut them off and was 1-0 at half time. full time 6-1. I changed my tactics to go defensive and had instructions on their key players but they scored 3 goals from 30 yards away or more from players like clichy. Its is not realistic its not tactics its just absurd.

I think "game of two halves syndrome" is directly related to your team talks.

Whether it was 1-0 HT, 1-6 FT, or 3-0 HT, 3-0 FT, the key difference between the first half and the second half is what you said at halftime.

I don't think team-talks have "too great an effect", but in my experience when I didn't really understand them, I'd find myself very frustrated with how inconsistent my teams were. It seemed no matter what team I managed, we'd have extremely choppy performances: great first half, awful second half ... somnambulent first half, tremendous second half ... or simply following up a 3-0 win with an 0-3 defeat against somebody I thought we should handle easily.

Once I'd fully come to terms with team-talks and media interviews, my sides have become much more consistent.

A couple pieces of advice I'd pass along:

"None" is a perfectly valid team-talk. I think of it as "Talk tactics with the lads".

Context matters - what you said in your pre-match impacts how your half-time and full-time are taken .. likewise your full-time and your next pre-match are related.

The full-time talk relates most specifically to the second half, not to the entire match.

"Pleased" is a valid half-time team-talk .. but its use depends on match odds and pre-match.

The worst example of this I had was in FM08, although I've had it countless times in FM09 as well, just not to such a ridiculous scale. I was playing Arsenal in the semi finals of the champions league and the first leg was at the Old Traffod. I was in charge of a very strong Man Utd team and was winning the league with ease. I got a 4-0 win at the Emirates. So naturally I thought to myself, this is in the bag, they cant possibly score 4 at the Emirates if I keep it tight at the back. How wrong I was. I set out with a defensive mentality, hoping to soak up the pressure and maybe bag a goal on the break. I was 4-0 down at half time. This could be blamed on tactics I suppose, but seriously, how bad do tactics have to be before a weaker side can put 4 past you at home!? Anyway, I had to go for a more attacking mentality in the second half. Pulled a couple back, but that overrated bastard Adebayor was having the game of his life and going into the final minutes, I was 7-2 down. Rooney scored from 25 yards with the last kick of the game and I won on away goals. Yeah, I won, but jesus christ, that is ridiculous.

I think "game of two halves syndrome" is directly related to your team talks.

Whether it was 1-0 HT, 1-6 FT, or 3-0 HT, 3-0 FT, the key difference between the first half and the second half is what you said at halftime.

Exactly. When going in at 3-0 at half-time you know that the biggest problem left in the game is making sure you get a response from the team in the dressing room so that they do compete in the second half. If you are failing to compete in the second half then it is entireally down to your own failure to motivate players at half-time. There is no point condemning the game for making half-time teamtalks key to second half performances.

If I am 3-0 up at half-time playing at home then I use "dissapointing" for anyone under 7.0 and "Have Faith" for everyone else, irrespective of whether they are playing 7.1 or 9.9. I do this because being nice is far less important than competing in the second half and being nice at full time. If I am away from Home then it is "have faith" and "pleased". Ofcourse you also need to take into account personality, which will have the effect of altering the precise teamtalk required, so that "dissapointing" for low Pressure players becomes "have faith" and for high professionalism players it becomes "angry".

If you start back-patting and congratulating players when the job is half done then obviously you are going to shocked in the second half somewhere along the line, and it will be entireally down to your man management skill.

I have just came across this problem tonight i was playing as Cardiff and i was away to Peterborough.

I was winning 3-0 at half time completerly battering the side but in the second half Peterborough came out and scored 3 making it 3-3 full time score sad thing is i knew it was going to happen.

Maybe my team got too relaxed or over confident in the second half?