SIMPLICITY - How to make a SOLID & SIMPLE 4-4-2 set

[mag man]

You play roughly the same way as me mag man. Noticed any changes to the closing down? Seems to me that my players are tiring a little more. But then I am a non-League side with fairly low stamina players. Perhaps it doesn't make much difference for fitter players.

Any thoughts?

I always play with fairly low closing down apart from on my wingers. I have found that players with high closing down and forward runs often condition will get destroyed during a game.

[crouchaldinho]

I always play with fairly low closing down apart from on my wingers. I have found that players with high closing down and forward runs often condition will get destroyed during a game.

I aim to get players with high stamina in those kinds of positions, e.g. wingers in particular, because I like them to work hard and track back.

I often have a sub available too, especially if the player in question doesn't quite have what it takes, because you are quite right that it can really tire a player out very quickly. As I say, I think this has been slightly tweaked in the new patch to make it have more of an impact.

[Celtic_1967]

I have just stumbled across this thread and have to say it looks fantastic. I have been having some massive problems with tactics in 09. I managed to build a successful tactic in 08, but 09 seems like a totally different beast and no matter what I tried I couldn't tame it. I have been so confused about tactics I started to feel like I was just button pushing and hoping for the best. (If you imagine trying to type a letter whilst wearing a blindfold and your hands tied behind your back then you will have some idea of my frustrations).

I tried to read TT&F and to be honest it was way over my head, with your guide I feel like I will be able to build a sucessful tactic set. I have printed it out and fully intend to digest it over the next couple of days.

Anyway, excellent work sir. I would doff my cap to you, however I am not wearing one!

[crouchaldinho]

(If you imagine trying to type a letter whilst wearing a blindfold and your hands tied behind your back then you will have some idea of my frustrations).

I have been there myself. Even now I have developed a successful tactics set, I still find myself occasionally having to have a big think about how things work in the game. Keeping things simple is the best way forward.

Anyway, excellent work sir. I would doff my cap to you, however I am not wearing one!

Good luck with creating your tactics set and I wish you the very best of luck!

C.

[Celtic_1967]

I have just finished creating the set. I have to say it is testament to your work that this has taken so little time. I cant believe I read, understood and followed the instructions within 2 hours. Bravo sir. I expected it to take all day ala TT&F.

I shall report back on my findings, I suspect playing as Celtic it will be my European adventures that will be of most interest!

[crouchaldinho]

As I said, best of luck and please do report back on your progress!

[AmA Deo]

Finally the new patch is here!!

I made three tactics, balanced, attack and defence, and tested them. Here are my results so far, testing with FC Copenhagen:

A: Sant Julia 5-0

I totally dominated this game

A: OB 0-1

The shots were 13-2, but I only managed to get 1 on target from the 13

A: AC Horsens 3-1

About 15 shots to both teams

H: Sant Julia 8-0

I totally dominated this game

H: Vejle 2-0

I totally dominated this game

H: AGF 2-0

A comfortable 2-0 win

H: Zilina 3-1

I totally dominated this game

A: FC Midtjylland 0-2

This is the second time I loose to a top Danish side. I started out with "balanced" tactic, but I think my prematch teamtalk destroyed my match!

A: Zilina 1-1

I'm satisfied with this result. I played with reserves and just wanted the match to end

H: Brøndby IF 4-0

Finally a win against a top Danish side. I totally dominated this game against my fierce rivals!!!

My 10 matches: 7W 1D 2L (28-6)

Conclusion:

Attacking tactic: When I play at home with my attacking tactic I'm unbeatable! And I score lots of goals as you can see. I could say the very same thing when I play away also.

Balanced tactic: When I play away with my balanced tactic against a good side (close odds) I have had some problems. I create shots (so does my opponent), but I can't seem to place the shots on goal. It ends typically with a loss for my side and scoring no goals.

Defensive tactic: It works okay for now, I haven't really tested it out so much yet.

Overall: Exept my two loss I'm actually very satisfied. I score a lot of goals and also my striker partnership is working beautifully atm! My defence is working pretty well too!

EDIT: I will report back later when I have tested my balanced tactic further. As for now it's unstable and I will try to tweak it...

[salkster2102]

well as you say the new patch has come out and i dont think anyone has had much time to test their tactics compared to the last patch. but it looks like you having some good results with them anyway

[CaraDelMono]

Thanks for the advice last time Crouch. I've had mixed results with it so far, I'm going to run through the first post again and make sure I've not missed anything, and as you suggest I'll go through stats and how the team talks went down. A few questions you might be able to help me with

1) My strikers are absolutely bobbins. I'm playing Berbatov as FCd which I thought would be ideal for him but he's useless. Though his morale is always superb. Generally, when we get to the 18yrd box we just squander possession against any decent teams.

2) We're making al ot of individual mistakes and can't keep the ball very well. Is this something to do with my passing/tempo settings?

3) When we come up against a decent DMC that player usually dominates the whole game, if I was to hard tackle and always close down would that unbalance my side?

[crouchaldinho]

Balanced tactic: When I play away with my balanced tactic against a good side (close odds) I have had some problems. I create shots (so does my opponent), but I can't seem to place the shots on goal. It ends typically with a loss for my side and scoring no goals.

First of all, thanks for posting up your results AmA Deo.

The two games you lost with Balanced were both away games. One of which, it looks like you dominated statistically but failed to get a bit of luck and score. The other match, you say you lost due to a poor team talk.

Three things I would say about this:

First, what is team gelling like? You'll find performances more consistent when team gelling has settled down, especially away from home.

Secondly, what were the odds like in these away games? A good team talk is of paramount importance, particularly when playing away.

Finally, the Balanced tactic I have posted above is quite cautious. This is my preference because I am a naturally cautious manager. I'm always looking for a clean sheet first of all. Hence, I have tight man-marking across the back four, counter-attack ticked and my strikers getting forward quickly on the break. With Balanced, I usually get 1-0s and 2-0s. You could, if you wanted to make it slightly more attacking. Perhaps make the fullbacks play zonal and close down in their own half. Also, you might untick 'counter-attack', maybe shorten the passing and adjust forward runs. Like I say, I always prefer to be cautious and I like to play on the break. It's up to you.

Overall: Exept my two loss I'm actually very satisfied. I score a lot of goals and also my striker partnership is working beautifully atm! My defence is working pretty well too!

Yes, impressive goals scored and goals against!

I would say that, as you play more games and the team gelling gets better, you should continue to improve in performances and results.

As for now it's unstable and I will try to tweak it...

I wouldn't go too crazy with tweaking. It's only been two games and there are mitigating circumstances for both of them, i.e. possibly bad luck or low gelling and a poor team talk.

Anyway, keep us updated as to your progress.

C.

[crouchaldinho]

well as you say the new patch has come out and i dont think anyone has had much time to test their tactics compared to the last patch. but it looks like you having some good results with them anyway

I'm doing quite nicely in my Saints game on the new patch.

The only thing I have tweaked is closing down for my fullbacks in the attacking tactic (have updated the first post).

Other than that, things have continued as before. My last four results: 0-0, 1-0, 1-0, 4-0. Played some promotion contenders during these games and was missing several key players including both of my central defenders, my best right-sided midfielder and my second top scorer for the season. So, I was pretty made up with these results, especially as my replacements aren't quite up to scratch.

C.

[crouchaldinho]

1) My strikers are absolutely bobbins. I'm playing Berbatov as FCd which I thought would be ideal for him but he's useless. Though his morale is always superb. Generally, when we get to the 18yrd box we just squander possession against any decent teams.

I would have thought this was ideal for him but I don't know his stats very well in the game because I mainly play in non-League on FM.

All I could suggest really is to check out opposition defenders, i.e. the players who are marking your forwards, and see if you can get an advantage over a marker physically or otherwise.

2) We're making al ot of individual mistakes and can't keep the ball very well. Is this something to do with my passing/tempo settings?

This could be a mix of things as I said in a previous post. As you are playing with a quality side, you could consider lowering passing and also lowering tempo to dominate possession more. However, if team gelling is low and team talks don't go down well, then possession is one of the first things to suffer in my experience. You'll see lazy players not being bothered to close down or tight mark their opponent. Result, you lose a lot of possession.

3) When we come up against a decent DMC that player usually dominates the whole game, if I was to hard tackle and always close down would that unbalance my side?

You should be fine doing this. I'm currently playing with a 442 diamond, pretty much same settings as my 4-4-2 but with closing down slightly adjusted for my DM. I tend to ask my AMC to man mark the DM and thus deny him space which works well. You could consider doing the same with your FCd or your MCa in a regular 4-4-2.

If you're struggling a bit, I would consider reviewing the first post, as you've said, and concentrating on team talks. They are so important to get right.

C.

[CaraDelMono]

Thanks C.

After a quick review a couple of sliders were a notch or two out. Just changed them - first result was a 1-0 defeat away at athletico madrid, second result we beat liverpool 2-0 (in previous games they had battered me) and Berbatov scored.

I assume by team gelling you mean squad harmony? This is currently on Very Good.

[crouchaldinho]

CaraDelMono - sounds like things are improving.

By team gelling, I mean where it tells you under assistant manager team talks.

[keadude]

Hey Crouch,

Am going to give these tactics a go with my Sheffield Wednesday team as I'm struggling for consistency in the Premier League...

Anyway this is my first team squad as it stands... it definitely needs a bit more quality added to it but I was wondering what advice you could give me based on these players... such as which midfield slot is better for Crosas or Donati and whether Keirrison is better as the creative forward or the goalscoring one...

GKs

Diego Penny

Lee Grant

RBs

Radojkovic - Lithuanian teenager, great pace

Bernard Mendy

LBs

Insua - loan from Liverpool

Steven Hammell

CBs

Meite

Kilgallon

Spurr

Wood

Saidi

Hinds

RMs

Geovanni - loan from Hull

Koki Mizuno

Radojkovic can also play here

LMs

DaMarcus Beasley

Michael McIndoe

John Fleck

CMs

Massimo Donati

Marc Crosas

Mikel Alonso

Alexey Smertin - barely use him as he's really starting to decline

STs

Keirrison - started well, has been woeful in the past few games, barely getting over 6

Marquinhos - brilliant, scoring for fun, and now injured for five months - thanks for that!

Fleck

Tudgay

Jeffers

Any tips would very much be appreciated because I really want to enjoy this version of the game but am struggling to at the moment.

Cheers.

[crouchaldinho]

Keadude - I don't have time to check out all of your players but I can advise on the sort of things I'd be looking for for certain roles in the team.

This is just off the top of my head:

Defensive-minded midfielder: Tackling, strength, aggression, marking, stamina, work rate, teamwork, decisions, passing, determination, creativity.

Attack-minded midfielder: Decisions, creativity, passing, off the ball, technique, finishing, work rate, stamina, teamwork, flair, long shots.

Deeper, creative forward: Creativity, flair, finishing, off the ball, passing, technique, strength, jumping, teamwork, balance, long shots, anticipation, first touch.

Advanced striker: Finishing, off the ball, composure, pace, acceleration, anticipation, technique, aggression, strength, jumping and heading (the last two, not essential).

Not all of these are vital but they are what I tend to look out for. Hopefully this will give you some guidance as to the types of player I like to play in each position.

C.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

I have to say firstly that I love this thread - well thought out & explained tactics & theories, it really encouraged me to revert back from CM0102 to FM09 again (I do jump between the 2). In my St Etienne friendlies it was very effectice though mostly the team didnt appear to be bossing the games. As soon as Ligue 1 started for real though I was always under the cosh, even agaisnt "weaker" teams, and underachieving - even the play looked disappointing so I reverted to WWfans T&TF for FM09, now we are playing like champions!.

The object of this post is not to diss the OP - I do admire it but it is not for me. Maybe it is a good lead-in for the slightly deeper involved effort mentioned above. I hope some have success or tweak and make this the tactic that we all want to have made. Maybe SIMPLICITY version 2 will be great - but as I say, I fear not for me.

At very least this got me back into FM09 - for that I am very grateful. For those not familiar with the tactical theorums this could be a good starting point - but dont forget wwfans TT&F if you are ready for more depth, especially if results disappoint.

[crouchaldinho]

Tigerhgrrrrrr - thanks for the feedback.

All I will say in response to your post is that this simple 4-4-2 thread doesn't essentially differ from TT&F in any particularly significant way, hence why I have referenced TT&F in the opening post. TT&F has been hugely influential for many years now and it is almost impossible to make a tactic without using the concepts developed by WWFan et al. in some way.

I have never offered this thread up as anything other than a starting point. All I have tried to do is show the thought processes that should go into making tactical choices and this approach has given me, and others, plenty of success in the game.

Anyway, I am pleased to hear you have found some success with another TT&F based set. Best of luck in your save.

C.

[keadude]

Hey Crouchy,

Thanks for those tips, I'm starting to think my players are just rubbish... particularly my midfielders who seem to be inconsistent and not quite up to the task. So far I've played two games using the tactical framework discussed here... my first match was against West Brom... the scout didn't say they played a particular style so I went into the match with a balanced set-up... fell behind midway through the half when Roman Bednar headed in a free-kick... despite that I dominated possession and failed to make my chances pay (both fleck and keirrison were listed by my ass man as struggling)... second half started and I wasn't going anywhere so at the 60 minute mark I made some changes and went to the attacking deciding I had nothing to lose...

Paid off with Geovanni popping up in the 80th minute to head home a cross from the CMa position to make it 1-1.

Second game was against Blackburn at home and my ass man said they played a defensive 442 so I went in with my attacking formation. I swapped Keirrison to the more attacking striker after his poor performance last time out and brought in Tudgay for Fleck in the CFd role.

Game started brightly but despite Keirrison creating a couple of half chances I couldn't finish... again... and thought the worst when a Robinson goal kick bounced over my defence and was pounced upon by Santa Cruz who slotted it home but was offside... In the end the match finished 0-0 by my second half performance was poor... Santa Cruz could have had a hat-trick if he'd been more clinical... it was like 15 shots to 5 with Rovers making 4 CCC's and me making 2... I'll persist with it but frankly I think my players just aren't much chop...

[crouchaldinho]

Hey Crouchy,

Thanks for those tips, I'm starting to think my players are just rubbish... particularly my midfielders who seem to be inconsistent and not quite up to the task. So far I've played two games using the tactical framework discussed here... my first match was against West Brom... the scout didn't say they played a particular style so I went into the match with a balanced set-up... fell behind midway through the half when Roman Bednar headed in a free-kick... despite that I dominated possession and failed to make my chances pay (both fleck and keirrison were listed by my ass man as struggling)... second half started and I wasn't going anywhere so at the 60 minute mark I made some changes and went to the attacking deciding I had nothing to lose...

Paid off with Geovanni popping up in the 80th minute to head home a cross from the CMa position to make it 1-1.

Second game was against Blackburn at home and my ass man said they played a defensive 442 so I went in with my attacking formation. I swapped Keirrison to the more attacking striker after his poor performance last time out and brought in Tudgay for Fleck in the CFd role.

Game started brightly but despite Keirrison creating a couple of half chances I couldn't finish... again... and thought the worst when a Robinson goal kick bounced over my defence and was pounced upon by Santa Cruz who slotted it home but was offside... In the end the match finished 0-0 by my second half performance was poor... Santa Cruz could have had a hat-trick if he'd been more clinical... it was like 15 shots to 5 with Rovers making 4 CCC's and me making 2... I'll persist with it but frankly I think my players just aren't much chop...

Keadude - sounds like you were unlucky in the first of those two games. Right approach, good stats but not quite getting the rub of the green, as they say. Second game sounds as though maybe the players weren't motivated. That's just a guess, of course. Did you check the assistant motivation feedback during the game? Also what did your assistant say about your team talks?

One thing I would say is vitally important is making good team talks. I've currently got a very young squad with some players who weren't quite performing up to scratch. I'm really learning the importance of good team talks this season in my game. I've been making a few notes on what is working well for me and I have made some progress with it. I suggest having a look at your squad personalities and singling out anyone who has low determination or a potentially troublesome personality type for an individual talk. I've done this lately and I feel like I'm squeezing just that little bit more out of my team. I think it's also pretty essential to try and get the motivation side of the game right when you're playing with an ungelled side.

Those would be my tips initially.

C.

[keadude]

Thanks mate... I'll keep you informed how I'm going... it's not that I'm struggling but I feel I can get more out of my players so I'll stick with the tactics and see what happens... I'm struggling a bit with teamtalks... I used Wolfsong's guide in FM08 and it was great but nothing really seems to work for me in 09... for the West Brom game I said wish luck pregame as I was a slight underdog and encourage or something similar at ht as I felt we were playing well just not finishing... both times in the feedback I had players looking delighted, etc.

For the blackburn game I used we can win this at the start as we were slight favourites and then at ht I said we can win this again with a couple of disappointeds for guys like Keirrison who weren't playing well... Anyway... I'll keep you informed...

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Tigerhgrrrrrr - thanks for the feedback.

All I will say in response to your post is that this simple 4-4-2 thread doesn't essentially differ from TT&F in any particularly significant way, hence why I have referenced TT&F in the opening post. TT&F has been hugely influential for many years now and it is almost impossible to make a tactic without using the concepts developed by WWFan et al. in some way.

I have never offered this thread up as anything other than a starting point. All I have tried to do is show the thought processes that should go into making tactical choices and this approach has given me, and others, plenty of success in the game.

Anyway, I am pleased to hear you have found some success with another TT&F based set. Best of luck in your save.

C.

Thank you. And thanks again for "drawing" me back into the FM09 world - CM0102 is still my fave all round CM/FM game but sometimes I just want to see those lil men running around! I dont know how wwfan did it but an example of the difference is that with SIMPLICITY the team seem to pass forward & sideways and usually use the wingers to cross (and they often cut in which is great) which top level AI teams easily combat. In WWfans T&TF tactic (I am comparing his Standard to your Balance here by the way) the players will pass backwards and across which looks more like it would in a real top level match, and it really feels like they are prising the defence apart. Just an observation, mind.

[keadude]

Thanks mate... I'll keep you informed how I'm going... it's not that I'm struggling but I feel I can get more out of my players so I'll stick with the tactics and see what happens... I'm struggling a bit with teamtalks... I used Wolfsong's guide in FM08 and it was great but nothing really seems to work for me in 09... for the West Brom game I said wish luck pregame as I was a slight underdog and encourage or something similar at ht as I felt we were playing well just not finishing... both times in the feedback I had players looking delighted, etc.

For the blackburn game I used we can win this at the start as we were slight favourites and then at ht I said we can win this again with a couple of disappointeds for guys like Keirrison who weren't playing well... Anyway... I'll keep you informed...

Well I've given up... I can't play this game... real shame because I would like to enjoy it and I did when things were going well... there's a good game there I know but I can't make it happen and I can't sit here playing a game when I've got hundreds of print-outs with tips and hints just so I can possibly find a way past Blackburn... it's got way too involved and complex for my blood.

My results after those first two games was a 3-1 loss to Man City where I believe I got the teamtalk wrong coz I was three-nil down within 20 minutes... my left-back gifting two of the goals away... scored in the dying minutes with a corner.

Then I lost against Everton 2-1 and it should have been more... keirrison scored an undeserved equaliser on 75 minutes but we went conceded when my CMd gave the ball away in the midfield in the 93rd minute.

Then I played Newcastle and despite dominating possession, shots everything... I lost 4-1... again two of the goals coming from personal errors...

I just can't handle this game... I feel I have no idea what I'm doing and I don't understand what I need to do when... guess I have to go back to FM08 which I found much less fun, but at least I understood it and knew what I needed to do when... sigh...

[crouchaldinho]

I'm struggling a bit with teamtalks... I used Wolfsong's guide in FM08 and it was great but nothing really seems to work for me in 09... for the West Brom game I said wish luck pregame as I was a slight underdog and encourage or something similar at ht as I felt we were playing well just not finishing... both times in the feedback I had players looking delighted, etc.

I'm not too worried about them looking delighted. What I want to see is them looking motivated. If you can get two players or more looking motivated then you can steamroller teams in my experience. Team talks seem to be really vital in this version of FM, especially if you have a young or ungelled side.

For the blackburn game I used we can win this at the start as we were slight favourites and then at ht I said we can win this again with a couple of disappointeds for guys like Keirrison who weren't playing well... Anyway... I'll keep you informed...

Were you following scout reports for the tactical side of things?

Personally, I would have used 'you can win this' if you were slight favourites.

At half-time, being supportive was probably not a bad idea, but be careful who you say you're disappointed to. You're looking for professionals or players with decent determination. These players will also react really well to a 'prove a point' talk, in my opinion.

Did you check assistant feedback?

My results after those first two games was a 3-1 loss to Man City where I believe I got the teamtalk wrong coz I was three-nil down within 20 minutes... my left-back gifting two of the goals away... scored in the dying minutes with a corner.

Again, did you check assistant feedback?

It sounds to me rather like you may have had 'seemed demotivated' for more than one player.

You have to be really careful with 'you can win' in this version. I'm always supporting it with individual talks for 'weaker' personality players now because I have seen it backfire on me a few times. Regardless of whether or not you get it right tactically, with a 'seemed demotivated' player or two, you're going to struggle to comeback. It has cost me the odd game but things have improved since I have been giving individual talks as well.

I just can't handle this game... I feel I have no idea what I'm doing and I don't understand what I need to do when... guess I have to go back to FM08 which I found much less fun, but at least I understood it and knew what I needed to do when... sigh...

I'm sorry you feel this way and I know how frustrating it can be.

I would be happy to have a look at your tactics if you feel it would help.

Personally, I wonder if it is a case of your side having very low gelling. It might be a case of trying to stay calm and give it some more time. The difficulties occur when you try lots of things out rather than having a 'logical' system and sticking to it through a bad patch.

I would guess that your squad is quite young too and possibly you have some difficult personalities in there as well. Younger players are less consistent. In this respect, you will have the same kinds of challenges as I have with my current squad. What I did to improve my performances is to examine my squad for stronger personalities, e.g. professional and determined. You know with these players that you can ask more of them and that they will, in general, react well to most team talks but they generally need to be driven on. I have some 'weaker' personalities who are harder to manage. I either have to encourage these players or, in some cases, be harsh with them (low determination). What I am finding with my team is that these 'weaker' personalities are key to getting a team talk right. If you can make sure that they don't have a poor reaction and you can get one of the stronger players reacting well, then you will see a good performance. If you can get a weaker player reaction as well, then you really are laughing. In my humble opinion, it can be the difference between picking up no points and going home with them all.

C.

[Jack de Leeds]

The scout says they play defensive so I would attack them. I notice that the odds are long though so don't put too much pressure on your players in the team talk. Take note of the comments about pushing up and play the fastest centre-backs you have. Taking a look at the opposition strikers is key here and ensuring that you can cover them for pace. As a last resort, if you don't have quick defenders, I would think about lowering the d-line by a few notches (and possibly lowering the mentality slightly to match but so that 5 players are still on attacking). But I don't usually like changing things like that unless absolutely necessary.

Hmm this is cinde of mismatch. You are saying that when opposite team is defensive you go attack so u get advantage. But lets say that there is different situation opposite team is attacking ! then u go defensive ? So u have same situation like in first example but this time you are not in advantage cos its impossible to be cos first automaton is true

So this 2 things are opposite and you are wining in both cases or ....

[crouchaldinho]

Hmm this is cinde of mismatch. You are saying that when opposite team is defensive you go attack so u get advantage. But lets say that there is different situation opposite team is attacking ! then u go defensive ? So u have same situation like in first example but this time you are not in advantage cos its impossible to be cos first automaton is true

Jack de Leeds - I have no idea what you are talking about but I'll try to reply anyway.

Basically, if the opposition are defensive, then the incentive is there for me to go attacking. Being cautious doesn't make a lot of sense. The best strategy is to get out there, push up, play wide and attack. Think about the scenario of Manchester United at Old Trafford. Most sides come to defend and so old red nose Fergie would be crazy not to go out there and attack them! Also, think about the criticism being leveled at Rafa Benitez for not being adventurous enough at Anfield. It's not a case of an advantage! It's the only strategy that makes sense.

If the opposition are attacking, then generally it is better to defend yourself. I'm not saying this is a rule. If you have a superior side then perhaps you could go out more attacking as well and dominate due to being much more superior. I'm a cautious manager though and I would rather play defensively, cancel out what they are trying to do and to try frustrate or get a goal on the break.

Hope that helps.

C.

[Finknottle]

Hello crouchaldinho, I have some questions that I hope you can answer for me.

1. Opponents likely to play 4-4-2. I play standard if teams are almost equal. I play attack if I am overwhelming 1/33 favourite v. Winterton.

2. Pitch is narrow, suit playing through the middle. Do I stick with [mixed], standard, [use flanks] attacking or do I alter tactics to go through the middle?

3. Long pitch, increase defensive line, short pitch, decrease defensive line. Is my thinking correct?

4. At varying times during matches my ass. man. has given me these messages. None of our passes are reaching the intended targets, whatever the distance.

5. We are missing easy passes, long and or short passes. Most of the time my passing % is not good but there have been occasions that is has been 70% or so.

I have tried, unsuccessfully to tweak tempo, width, defensive line and closing down. My team passing is always set to normal [10] because I give passing instructions individually. This pre-empts me from altering the team passing because individual instructions overide team instructions. I am thinking that if there is a problem with the passing, it should be the team passing that is altered. My reasoning is that it is not practical, during a match, to individually tweak each players passing instructions. Please, "C", can you enlighten one who can not see?

I have re-done my 4-5-1 set of tactics using both your ideas and the TT&F guide, for a new game with the new patch. I have only played the one friendly, v. Winterton. Won 9-0. At last, this game is easy!! I jest. I am playing according to "Hoyle", keeping within the financial parameters of the club. As this is only £650,000 it precludes me from buying "big". So my Hull City team is likely to mirror the real life team somewhat. Kind regards.

[crouchaldinho]

Hello crouchaldinho, I have some questions that I hope you can answer for me.

No problem. I shall do my best.

1. Opponents likely to play 4-4-2. I play standard if teams are almost equal. I play attack if I am overwhelming 1/33 favourite v. Winterton.

Are you saying that your scout report said that Winterton were going to play a balanced 4-4-2?

In that case, I would say of course it is fine to attack. Against a stronger side, you'd probably favour a balanced approach yourself, but when you're by far the superior side, you can choose to attack regardless of their approach.

You'll find most teams in pre-season and in the cups will come and play you balanced, regardless of your superiority or otherwise.

2. Pitch is narrow, suit playing through the middle. Do I stick with [mixed], standard, [use flanks] attacking or do I alter tactics to go through the middle?

I have to be honest and say that I don't pay too much attention to it. I want my team to play my game. If you are attacking on a narrow pitch, you still want to use as much space as possible to break down an opponent. I tend to leave my setting at 'mixed' so that my side will try a variety of approaches.

It is up to you if you want to experiment with this. Personally, I try not to make things too complicated. There is a good guide to what to do with pitch sizes in TT&F though if you fancy trying some tweaks out.

3. Long pitch, increase defensive line, short pitch, decrease defensive line. Is my thinking correct?

It makes good logical sense, yes. Like I say, I tend to play my game and stick with my approach.

One thing with defensive line is that you should be careful not to unlink it from the overall mentality. Again, I personally prefer not to over complicate things. I would tend to concentrate on personnel. For example, if I was playing an attacking tactic where I had the defensive line pushed up on a long pitch, I would be looking to have my quickest centre-backs playing. Also, this kind of thing is already dependent upon your tactic anyway. If you're playing defensively, then you're already deep, for instance.

I do think about pitch sizes when setting my home pitch up at the start of the season though. I always tend to think about the kind of tactic I want to play and choose accordingly.

4. At varying times during matches my ass. man. has given me these messages. None of our passes are reaching the intended targets, whatever the distance. We are missing easy passes, long and or short passes. Most of the time my passing % is not good but there have been occasions that is has been 70% or so.

I have a few ideas about passing based on my experiences:

1. I feel that it is better to have players on similar passing throughout the side or at least only a few notches apart. This is just a general feeling of mine but I think it means that the team are operating on the same kind of agenda. Plus, your choice for tempo is then matched to the majority of your players.

2. What is the overall passing quality of your side like? Mine, for instance, is pretty average (for my level) in the outfield positions and totally awful at the back, so I tend to have the defenders on longer passing and the rest of the team a few notches lower in mixed.

3. Short passing is hard to pull off with a poor team. If you are going to play short you will almost definitely need to lower the tempo to match.

4. Have you got any players playing through-balls who are rubbish at passing? This could be a problem as they may well make risky passes and be giving the ball away all of the time.

5. If you are playing a more 'direct' style, are your midfield and attack physically good and able to win the ball back? It may be that your team are getting out battled in the air and thus your side are gifting the ball to a dominant centre-back, for instance, who will win the ball in the air every time.

6. Is team gelling low? If it is, then I'm afraid the only cure may be time. When team gelling is low, the consistency of performances tends to be all over the place. Passing is one of the first things to suffer.

7. Finally, are team talks going well in general? When I give a poor team talk, the first thing to suffer is my passing, which gets sloppy, with certain players guilty of giving away possession. I suggest you keep an eye on the 'motivation' tab on the match screen and see if your players are motivated and playing with confidence etc., if not then consider subbing them or sorting it out with an effective halftime team talk.

I have tried, unsuccessfully to tweak tempo, width, defensive line and closing down.

My honest suggestion is to try not to tweak too much, especially not during matches, as it can cause a lot of problems. Only tweak if you see something going badly wrong.

My team passing is always set to normal [10] because I give passing instructions individually. This pre-empts me from altering the team passing because individual instructions overide team instructions. I am thinking that if there is a problem with the passing, it should be the team passing that is altered. My reasoning is that it is not practical, during a match, to individually tweak each players passing instructions.

What I would suggest in that case it to have some of the team on 'team passing'. If you untick the box next to their individual setting it will go to team.

In my team, I have the centre-backs on longer passing (set individually) because they are all rubbish at passing. Then I have the attacking players on the 'team' setting which is mixed for my team. That means I could alter the attacking part of my team with the team instruction rather than tweak individually. I hope that makes sense.

I am playing according to "Hoyle", keeping within the financial parameters of the club. As this is only £650,000 it precludes me from buying "big". So my Hull City team is likely to mirror the real life team somewhat. Kind regards.

I'm doing the same with my St. Albans City team, obviously at a much lower level! I'm trying to keep within the financial limits and to promote my youth players where I can. It does require some patience. Also, you'll find that team talks will be important to get your players motivated and playing with confidence.

Hope this helps and best of luck!

C.

[mista T]

Hey crouch, read your work and have to say, top man seems like a more compact version of the TT&F if you wouldn't mind, could you post up some of the attributes which would be good for some players in their respective tactics? Or PM me about it? thanks, if not that's ok

[mista T]

First game, used the balance as it was a fairly even match and drew 2-2, was the pre match prediction as well playing as wimbledon, played southport.

[Finknottle]

Thanks again "C". That's me sorted for tonight! Kind regards.

[crouchaldinho]

Hey crouch, read your work and have to say, top man seems like a more compact version of the TT&F if you wouldn't mind, could you post up some of the attributes which would be good for some players in their respective tactics? Or PM me about it? thanks, if not that's ok

This is, roughly, the sort of attributes I look for:

Goalkeepers: Handling, agility, jumping, reflex, strength, decisions, aerial ability, command of area, concentration, bravery and anticipation.

Centre backs: Positioning, jumping, tackling, marking, aggression, strength, bravery, heading, anticipation, pace and acceleration.

Fullbacks: Positioning, work rate, teamwork, stamina, decisions, crossing, dribbling, tackling, pace, acceleration.

Defensive-minded midfielder: Tackling, strength, aggression, marking, stamina, work rate, teamwork, decisions, passing, determination, creativity.

Attack-minded midfielder: Decisions, creativity, passing, off the ball, technique, finishing, work rate, stamina, teamwork, flair, long shots.

Wide midfielders/wingers: Crossing, dribbling, pace, acceleration, balance, technique, passing, creativity, work rate, team work, off the ball.

Deeper, creative forward: Creativity, flair, finishing, off the ball, passing, technique, strength, jumping, teamwork, balance, long shots, anticipation, first touch.

Advanced striker: Finishing, off the ball, composure, pace, acceleration, anticipation, technique, aggression, strength, jumping and heading (the last two, not essential).

Something like that anyway.

C.

[crouchaldinho]

First game, used the balance as it was a fairly even match and drew 2-2, was the pre match prediction as well playing as wimbledon, played southport.

Good luck with your tactics and let me know how you get on.

C.

[mista T]

Crouch, this looks like alot to digest I will be making filters right away, but as a st. Albans manager, do you have any player reccomendations? If so, would you mind PMing me? Thanks alot again for this beautifully explained set

[mista T]

Used the attacking set and balanced set in the second friendly. Used the attacking set first half to get goals, 4 of which were scored for me, then the balanced set to refrain play in the second half and keep the lead and possession, but to leave attacking options open. 4-0 to me in the end

[crouchaldinho]

Crouch, this looks like alot to digest I will be making filters right away, but as a st. Albans manager, do you have any player reccomendations? If so, would you mind PMing me? Thanks alot again for this beautifully explained set

Not really got any player recommendations. I tend to buy players that my scouts recommend. Plus, in my current save, I am tending to focus on bringing through youth players.

Try good players forum or whatever its called. There is an Official St. Albans City thread in there that someone has made. Actually, there is an AFC Wimbledon one as well, which might be more useful for you! There might be a few tips in there.

Obviously at that level it is hard to meet all of the stats when you bring a player through and then you just have to prioritise the ones you really want.

C.

[crouchaldinho]

Used the attacking set and balanced set in the second friendly. Used the attacking set first half to get goals, 4 of which were scored for me, then the balanced set to refrain play in the second half and keep the lead and possession, but to leave attacking options open. 4-0 to me in the end

I do that sometimes too, i.e. change to balanced when well ahead. Tightens things up plus saves your players from exerting themselves too much as the balanced has much less closing down etc.

[mista T]

What kind of pitch would you reccomend that I set mine as? I'm thinking max allowed as Wimbledon are predicted to come 2nd and so the opposition will generally be worse, prompting attacking tactics more often.

[crouchaldinho]

What kind of pitch would you reccomend that I set mine as? I'm thinking max allowed as Wimbledon are predicted to come 2nd and so the opposition will generally be worse, prompting attacking tactics more often.

Yes, that's the kind of logic I would use. You're going to be using as much of the pitch as possible, especially in the wide positions. Selecting a wide pitch means that a team who are going to come and stay narrow and compact will struggle to defend against you as they will have to cover so much more ground.

[mista T]

There are a few new tactical features which seem unused/useless in FM09. For instance, does anyone use the overlap feature?

[crouchaldinho]

There are a few new tactical features which seem unused/useless in FM09. For instance, does anyone use the overlap feature?

What overlap feature? :confused:

[mista T]

it's under swap position. Intended for full backs and wingers, I guess but doesn't look like it's used. And the focus passing.

[mista T]

AFC Wimbledon 2-0 Team Bath

used the attack set throughout as I was at home and favourites. Scored both goals in the second half as they marked both forwards well. Switched them around to cancel out OI's but they were still marking one of them too well, so he had to come off. Good solid first result and hopefully more to follow

[crouchaldinho]

it's under swap position. Intended for full backs and wingers, I guess but doesn't look like it's used. And the focus passing.

Do you just mean using the swap position to swap your fullback and winger? :confused:

I use swap position sometimes. I'm about to use it to swap my AMC and ST in my next game to add a bit of variation to my forward play.

Focus passing can be used of course, but I personally don't tend to bother. If I had amazing wide players, then I would perhaps consider it for attacking systems. The only time I use focus passing is when I go down to 10 men due to a sending off or injury. I then take off a wide player and send the ball down the other flank. Very effective.

C.

[crouchaldinho]

AFC Wimbledon 2-0 Team Bath

used the attack set throughout as I was at home and favourites. Scored both goals in the second half as they marked both forwards well. Switched them around to cancel out OI's but they were still marking one of them too well, so he had to come off. Good solid first result and hopefully more to follow

That's a good result and Team Bath are one of the better sides in the division as well.

[mista T]

Braintree 0-1 AFC Wimbledon

A close game, but hindsight didn't much pay off. They played a high tempo attacking 4-4-2, and I attempted to play my attacking 4-4-2 and see if I could cancel them out, to no joy. Switched to the balanced at half time to slow it down and play more sensibly through the narrow pitch, which paid off. Own goal in the end.

[mista T]

Weston-Super-Mare 2-4 AFC Wimbledon

An early red card all but ensured WSM they were going to lose. 3 in the first half to their 2 wasn't as comfortable as I had wanted, even though one was a penalty, so I switched to the balance again at half time. another goal followed and a good solid win away.

[mista T]

AFC Wimbledon 2-1 Thurrock

I noticed Thurrock played a defensive formation, so looked to overwhelm them by playing the attacking formation first. Things started well, with dominant spells in possession and an own goal by the keeper, but they equalised. I carried on with the attacking formation before switching to the good old balanced, and a goal gave me the win. My unbeaten run continues.

[crouchaldinho]

Great start to the season mista_T - I've always struggled with WSM and Thurrock. They have been my two bogey teams in the past!

[mista T]

Bognor Regis 1-1 AFC Wimbledon

This most recent result shows me to start with the balanced against defensive teams. Awful draw and I don't really want to go into it too much, but I had to equalise.

Thanks again for this wonderful set, C.