Tactical Central and Insight: Implementing Tactics for FM09

[Jay1992]

Im managing arsenal in my save and im testing the tactics against chelsea over and over again.

The recommended tactic for this match would be capello presumably, because the weather is "Dry 20 oC".

So ive been using this and keep losing by 1-0.

I have maybe just about been having more possession, about 51 or 52 - 50. I havn't have hardly any ccc's.

Does anyone know what i should do to win?

[donpost2]

Thank you Loversleaper for a great thread. I have your first few posts printed out and next to me right now

One question: The ingame tips say it takes a while for your team to get used to a certain tactic. Won't all this chopping and changing of tactic each match affect the team in this area?

[Asim]

Im managing arsenal in my save and im testing the tactics against chelsea over and over again.

The recommended tactic for this match would be capello presumably, because the weather is "Dry 20 oC".

So ive been using this and keep losing by 1-0.

I have maybe just about been having more possession, about 51 or 52 - 50. I havn't have hardly any ccc's.

Does anyone know what i should do to win?

i dont think you should be using the capello tactic as arsenal, not even against chelsea as i assume the match odds are tight.

you should be able to play a more attacking tactic.

i have my own tactic and play as spurs, its similar to the argentina tactic which i came across from loversleaper afterwards.

i find i always have more possession than all top 4 teams, and usually give them a good tight game with this attacking tactic. i dont always win, but i have plenty of chances that a stronger side should be able to put away.

even if your playing away, you should be able to use one of the attacking ones.

[Loversleaper]

Thank you Loversleaper for a great thread. I have your first few posts printed out and next to me right now

One question: The ingame tips say it takes a while for your team to get used to a certain tactic. Won't all this chopping and changing of tactic each match affect the team in this area?

No. Because they are all 4-4-2 in formation so that is the part they have to get accostumed to. Otherwise eveytime it rained, for example, we would have to go through a 'get used to' phase. But generally I would argue that it is not as bad as some may think when changing tactical formations, and if one knows how to make up the settings of a successful tactic it won't be too big a problem...

[Loversleaper]

Im managing arsenal in my save and im testing the tactics against chelsea over and over again.

The recommended tactic for this match would be capello presumably, because the weather is "Dry 20 oC".

So ive been using this and keep losing by 1-0.

I have maybe just about been having more possession, about 51 or 52 - 50. I havn't have hardly any ccc's.

Does anyone know what i should do to win?

I have a feeling that something isn't set-up right if you don't have CCC's. What type of striker set-up do you implement? I think it is either this causing you problems or you should play a little more offensive. I think you are experiencing what I described in the tactic section what match stats to look for to indicate if you should go to a higher mentality (The Anchelotti).

[Nick Toye]

Hmm, getting a message saying that "The Midfield and Attack are not working well together, and there is so much space between them". I am using the Athletico (6) tactic with a 442.

Any ideas?

[matti77]

Matti: first of all it would be beneficial to anyone trying to help you that you explain what you did. When you lost home to Middlesborough you are going to have to explain what tactic you used, what the weather was like, what the match stats maybe looked like. Other-wise I have no idea what you did so I wouldn't know how to help you change.

If you did use The Argentina home against Middlesborough that is at the bottom of the league would suggest that you should read the Tactical Suggestion part and get some ideas how you should have played that particular match. I would suggest that if you are Titel favorites then you should be in the High Pressure Area when implementing tactics on home pitch.

I never recomended that you use The Argentina away from Home. If you do you have misunderstood what is explained when choosing tactics. Mentality is important when you choose a tactic, and to understand this more I wrote some ideas in the Building Tactics section (4th post in this thread). You don't have to be precise when you chose which Mentality, but have to be in the general region, too big mentality contrast compared to opponent will cause your tactic to fail in that specific incident.

Sorry, I realize that my post was very non-informative. Actually I think I was too fast to even talk about your tactics. However, I've used some of them this evening and I can't complain. 5 wins and 1 draw I even managed to win against ManU at OT. What I've however struggle with is that I really have to fight against quite poor teams. Tried the Wenger at home against Wigan (16th) and won 1-0 (weather dry). They nearly scored at the end of the game. Just beat Everton (8th) at home, 2-1, Rossi scored for us in the 92th minute. Used the Milan tactic as the weather was rainy. I shouldn't complain as we're winning, but it seems difficult for me to find a tactic that gives me those comfortable wins. Also, I've difficulties to find a away tactic when odds are slightly on my side. Just have to continue exploring and hopefully I'll get it right.

[stvndysn]

No. Because they are all 4-4-2 in formation so that is the part they have to get accostumed to. Otherwise eveytime it rained, for example, we would have to go through a 'get used to' phase. But generally I would argue that it is not as bad as some may think when changing tactical formations, and if one knows how to make up the settings of a successful tactic it won't be too big a problem...

yes i agree with you loversleaper in the fact that its the formation that the team has the "get used to" phase.

this is something ive noticed when experimenting with my tactic and ive had to change when certain players become injured and i dont have a replacement for that position, which gives me a thought when training the players to have a schedule called "training" and stick the 1st team on that" until after match

[Loversleaper]

Sorry, I realize that my post was very non-informative. Actually I think I was too fast to even talk about your tactics. However, I've used some of them this evening and I can't complain. 5 wins and 1 draw I even managed to win against ManU at OT. What I've however struggle with is that I really have to fight against quite poor teams. Tried the Wenger at home against Wigan (16th) and won 1-0 (weather dry). They nearly scored at the end of the game. Just beat Everton (8th) at home, 2-1, Rossi scored for us in the 92th minute. Used the Milan tactic as the weather was rainy. I shouldn't complain as we're winning, but it seems difficult for me to find a tactic that gives me those comfortable wins. Also, I've difficulties to find a away tactic when odds are slightly on my side. Just have to continue exploring and hopefully I'll get it right.

You might experience a short time where your players have to adapt to you as a new manager and your tactics, but after a ca 15 games tops they should be 'obeying' your instructions. Rainy matches will always be a mess...

[Loversleaper]

Hmm, getting a message saying that "The Midfield and Attack are not working well together, and there is so much space between them". I am using the Athletico (6) tactic with a 442.

Any ideas?

Something is seriously wrong with individual mentality settings. None of your players should be 3 notches away from the team mentality...

[Nick Toye]

On all sliders it is 1-20, except the Team Mentality slider which I count as 0-21 so that the team and individual numbers still match eachother...

Is that a bug then?

[Nick Toye]

Hmm, can I get this right too. If the team mentality is say 11, my CB are on 9 - the arrows point back. If they are on 13 the arrows point forward?

[stvndysn]

thats correct nick

[Nick Toye]

thats correct nick

I think I'm getting it.

Just need to now work out how I can develop a tactic based on real life managers. I'm on a Mac, so don't think there is a tool out there to help me translate to sliders from the FM Editor.

[matti77]

thats correct nick

Arrows dont have anything to do with mentality or am I getting something wrong here?

[pointon27]

Something is seriously wrong with individual mentality settings. None of your players should be 3 notches away from the team mentality...

Reading your opening post it says that the DC's should be 3 less than the team mentallity, and the strikers 3 more than the team mentallity, or did i understand that wrong?

[philwood]

I just wanted to say that I have set up these tactics and got them going on my game.

Currently PSV and finished 4th last season so not a great team.

In the beginning I was using the Argentina and The Milan at home (depending on wet or dry) and the Benitez and The Italy away (again depending on the weather). I don't think my team was good enough to be playing these tactics as results were not great and getting caught on the counter attack (although dominating alot of games). I felt this was too attacking for my team so I dropped back to using The Benitez and The Italy at home and The two Ancelloti tactics (one has long passing and one has short) away and it is working very well. Controlling games at home and scoring and soaking up pressure from better teams and hitting them on the break in the league and UEFA cup. As said in the origianl post I will need to move up to Argentina & Milan and Arsene as my career progresses and the opposition changes the way they play against me. That is realistic and enjoyable.

My opinion is that this is an excellent set and it gives the FM player a sense of control which I haven't had so far on this game. I feel I can change things if it's not working and it will improve my teams performance.

Well done

[jascko]

Reading your opening post it says that the DC's should be 3 less than the team mentallity, and the strikers 3 more than the team mentallity, or did i understand that wrong?

Correct, but it also mentioned that one of your players on central midfield will have 2 notches below the team mentality, thus it is only a notch between the DC and DM. The same applies to future up on the pitch, one of your centrale midfielders will have 2 notches above team mentality that he is in contact with the striker who has 3 notches above team mentality. Understand?

[Nick Toye]

Something is seriously wrong with individual mentality settings. None of your players should be 3 notches away from the team mentality...

I am running with the Benitez tactic, and I am still getting the same message. I have double checked the mentality settings for the individuals and they are right. Let me confirm that the centre setting for player mentality is 10 but the team one is 11. If I have that wrong then that could be the reason.

[pointon27]

Correct, but it also mentioned that one of your players on central midfield will have 2 notches below the team mentality, thus it is only a notch between the DC and DM. The same applies to future up on the pitch, one of your centrale midfielders will have 2 notches above team mentality that he is in contact with the striker who has 3 notches above team mentality. Understand?

Yeah thats how i've got mine set up which means the 2 cm's are on individual mentallity1 of them 2 below team and 1 of them 2 above team mentallity, yet in his post he said no players should be 3 notches away from team mentallity, in which quite clearly both the DC's and strikers are.

[footynut]

I am running with the Benitez tactic, and I am still getting the same message. I have double checked the mentality settings for the individuals and they are right. Let me confirm that the centre setting for player mentality is 10 but the team one is 11. If I have that wrong then that could be the reason.

Nick, you are having problems aren't you?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by centre setting and team one but this is how you should have mentality set up for the Benitez.

Goalkeeper team setting = 10

Centre Backs team setting -3 = 7

Full Backs team setting = 10

DMC team setting -2 = 8

AMC team setting +2 = 12

Wingers team setting = 10

Forwards team setting +3 = 13

[Nick Toye]

Nick, you are having problems aren't you?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by centre setting and team one but this is how you should have mentality set up for the Benitez.

Goalkeeper team setting = 10

Centre Backs team setting -3 = 7

Full Backs team setting = 10

DMC team setting -2 = 8

AMC team setting +2 = 12

Wingers team setting = 10

Forwards team setting +3 = 13

Yeah, I checked the settings and I did have it wrong by one notch. What I mean by centre setting is when the slider is bang in the middle. If that is 10 or 11, then I count down to left or right, depending on what number I need.

[marioneta]

if it's on the midle it's 11. Like i mentioned before i've commited the same error but definetely 11 is in the middle

[jascko]

if it's on the midle it's 11. Like i mentioned before i've commited the same error but definetely 11 is in the middle

No, in the teama mentality (global) the midle is 12. For all others the midle is 11. It is because the team mentality slider goes up to 22, while others goes only up to 20.

[perdant]

Hi everyone,

I've compiled Loversleaper's first few posts into a pdf file (with some very basic editing).

You can download it at http://tinyurl.com/7cfozs.(For a limited period only.)

[Asim]

loversleaper, just wanted to pick your brains. not being critical, just curious, you know i think your thread is great.

you have the anchelloti and milan tactics, iv always associated the 2 together, whats was the difference, not tactically i mean name wise.

all the others are straight forward, named according to how the team, or manager plays.

secondly, pitch size.

my groundsman asked for my prefference, in 1st season i chose the biggest pitch as i like to use width. at the start of 2nd season, he asked me again but this time stated that

'the pitch is long and will favour teams that play direct footbal'

this made me revert back to my standard pitch size, as i prefer short passing, and didnt want to give the smaller teams an advantage when they play against me my ground.

so which tactics would be suited to short or congested pitches etc.

this also ties into my third point.

my personal tactic which i was using before i can across your helpful thread was a mix between argentina and arsene. i like short passing, but i also like to play with width as i have excellent wingers. mentality is normal (13) i play at a normal tempo as i found it more controlling, and the fast tempo caused alot of missed chances. visually the football is great, but as i mentioned before, i ignored the weather aspects and just hoped my tactic would keep working, i found away from home i would be in control but loose the odd game that i should have won.

after analyzing all of your tactics, i notice that there isnt a single attacking tactic that uses short passing, and a lot of width, is there a reason for this? i dont really like playing direct, and have bought players in that have good passing and 1st touch for that reason. but after those away matches, i realised i need a more direct approach away from home in rainy conditions.

[Nick Toye]

No, in the teama mentality (global) the midle is 12. For all others the midle is 11. It is because the team mentality slider goes up to 22, while others goes only up to 20.

is that right.

[Loversleaper]

To all those that are struggling with the slider. You all first of all are going about it all wrong. I have explained but maybe not thorough enough so let me try again:

The TEAM Mentality Slider (from far left) will count from 0-21. The 0 is 'Ultra-defense' and 21 is 'All-out-attack' so that the rest of the notches on this Slider will follow the PLAYER INDIVIDUAL Mentality slider which is counted 1-20. The PLAYER INDIVIDUAL slider does NOT have the 0(ultra-defense) or the 21(all-out-attack) option.

Now lets say, FOR EXAMPLE, that the TEAM Mentality is (13). When you go to the PLAYER INDIVIDUAL Instructions you should see a 'greyed' version of the TEAM's Mentality Settings. Match the PLAYER's Mentality to the TEAMS Mentality and then count either UP 2 or 3 NOTCHES or DOWN 2 or 3 NOTCHES. That means that when the TEAM's Mentality is (13) then:

TEAM (*EXAMPLE*): (13)

GK: (TEAM which is 13)

DR/DL: (TEAM which is 13)

CB: (3 less than TEAM which is 10)

WR/L: (TEAM which is 13)

DM: (2 less than TEAM which is 11)

AM: (2 more than TEAM which is 15)

ST: (3 more than TEAM whcih is 16)

If this is difficult then I can only imagine what troubles you will encounter with the rest of the settings and this ideology probably won't work out for you.

Perdant Thanks for taking time to make a better version of what I wrote. I know it is riddled with grammer mistakes and structural difficulties but in my defense English is not my first language. I will look through it (I just downloaded it).

[CapEm]

is that right.

Only if you consider the very first notch (ultra defensive) as "1", then "22" is All out attack, but lovesleaper has already establish that when creating his tactics that you must consider the first notch is 0 and work your way up to 21.

[Loversleaper]

Only if you consider the very first notch (ultra defensive) as "1", then "22" is All out attack, but lovesleaper has already establish that when creating his tactics that you must consider the first notch is 0 and work your way up to 21.

DO NOT consider the 1-22 Count on the TEAM Slider, it will only confuse you because if you do then to match the TEAM's Mentality to the PLAYER's INDIVIDUAL you would have to count the PLAYER's INDIVIDUAL 2-21. Now please everybody look a couple of post's up where I have tried the only way I could explain how to COUNT them.

The ONLY slider (out of them all) that has 22 NOTCHES is the TEAM MENTALITY SLIDER...

[Nick Toye]

So you can see how some get confused with different opinions.

[Loversleaper]

So you can see how some get confused with different opinions.

If what I explained makes sense to you, please help spread the word. Thanks...

[Loversleaper]

loversleaper, just wanted to pick your brains. not being critical, just curious, you know i think your thread is great.

you have the anchelloti and milan tactics, iv always associated the 2 together, whats was the difference, not tactically i mean name wise.

all the others are straight forward, named according to how the team, or manager plays.

secondly, pitch size.

my groundsman asked for my prefference, in 1st season i chose the biggest pitch as i like to use width. at the start of 2nd season, he asked me again but this time stated that

'the pitch is long and will favour teams that play direct footbal'

this made me revert back to my standard pitch size, as i prefer short passing, and didnt want to give the smaller teams an advantage when they play against me my ground.

so which tactics would be suited to short or congested pitches etc.

this also ties into my third point.

my personal tactic which i was using before i can across your helpful thread was a mix between argentina and arsene. i like short passing, but i also like to play with width as i have excellent wingers. mentality is normal (13) i play at a normal tempo as i found it more controlling, and the fast tempo caused alot of missed chances. visually the football is great, but as i mentioned before, i ignored the weather aspects and just hoped my tactic would keep working, i found away from home i would be in control but loose the odd game that i should have won.

after analyzing all of your tactics, i notice that there isnt a single attacking tactic that uses short passing, and a lot of width, is there a reason for this? i dont really like playing direct, and have bought players in that have good passing and 1st touch for that reason. but after those away matches, i realised i need a more direct approach away from home in rainy conditions.

Ignoring weather is not recommended, you will (for the most part) suffer result-wise.

There is a Tactic that implements Wide, Short and attacking so I suggest you read the Tactics Section again where I have also explained when to use it.

Width has nothing to do with how good your wingers are. I have explained the width issue so if you find my post confusing then download a User named Pendant's version which is found a couple of posts above this one, which is more 'eye-pleasing' then my own. Thanks...

P.S. Here's a little clip of one of the explainations:

"Playing wide generally is a bad idea if your team doesn't have high stamina players with lots of other qualities and I think many people have a problem being realistic when assessing their squad"

[Riziger]

To make things simple, regardless of whether it's team or individual, the middle is 11. Count up or down from there.

Played a game against Heracles away where I was slightly favoured to win. Started with the Italy tactic. Went 2-1 up at H/t, comfortably. 2nd half they switch to a 3-2-2-1-2 with wingbacks and suddenly my team falls apart, I switched to the Athletico tactic to hold onto my lead but from what I remember they kept skinning my fullbacks and getting cheap crosses in, 3 of these connected and they ended up winning 4-2. Even then I was dominating possesion and pass %, worth noting that both my Strikers were backups due to my injury crisis.

Perhaps I should've just sticked with the tactic, narrowed the width a little and pushed my d-line up a little to lessen the pressure in my box.

Using 4 tactics now.

An Arsene wengerish one, slightly tweaked to match what I want. All home games.

The Italy one for away games I should win.

Athletico 11 for tight away games

Athletico 6 for games I will lose (Against Chelsea, Bayern etc in the ECC)

I don't really like playing the Athletico though cause it sorta goes against how I want to play which is a neat short passing buildup game.

[jascko]

The ONLY slider (out of them all) that has 22 NOTCHES is the TEAM MENTALITY SLIDER...

That was what I've tried to tell, but it seems that for someone here this is more like science.

[perdant]

Perdant Thanks for taking time to make a better version of what I wrote. I know it is riddled with grammer mistakes and structural difficulties but in my defense English is not my first language. I will look through it (I just downloaded it).

Hi Loversleaper,

You're welcome. I've just corrected some spelling errors and stuff. If I have the time, I'll do a bit more editing and break up some of the longer paragraphs.

But for now, I'm going to give what you've advised a try.

[Loversleaper]

Hi Loversleaper,

You're welcome. I've just corrected some spelling errors and stuff. If I have the time, I'll do a bit more editing and break up some of the longer paragraphs.

But for now, I'm going to give what you've advised a try.

I have just been adding new explainations in the Building Tactics Section (post 4), but should have my entire post finished this week-end and I hope you can include the rest (if you like). I would be most apreciated. Thanks...

[stvndysn]

if you are struggling to get these tactics in game/creating them you can download them

Loversleapers tactics

mirror

[Loversleaper]

if you are struggling to get these tactics in game/creating them you can download them here would also be a good idea loversleaper if you wanna put the link on the OP

There are a couple of problems regarding the uploaded tactics: first they are 'missing' the Milan and the Italy tactics. For the other they are not a flat 4-4-2. Don't know if you could correct them, as I have had to take the link away from the Tactics Section because I am afraid people will be more confused...

P.S. It's alright I have the set ready somewhere so I will upload them for the Community and include them. Thanks for your help, anyway...

[stvndysn]

apologies for that dude corrections done and added a mirror

[jascko]

P.S. It's alright I have the set ready somewhere so I will upload them for the Community and include them. Thanks for your help, anyway...

Is this such a good idee, Loversleaper? I'm just afraid if you uploud all these tactics people will just download them without having read the thread. You will then have the problems because people will call your tactics unusable because they didt know when, and in which situations they supposed to be used. This will give you even more unnecessary questions.

[stvndysn]

jascko if you look at the tactics set you will see that ive included on the name of teh tactics

this is what they look like on my tactics screen

[Loversleaper]

Is this such a good idee, Loversleaper? I'm just afraid if you uploud all these tactics people will just download them without having read the thread. You will then have the problems because people will call your tactics unusable because they didt know when, and in which situations they supposed to be used. This will give you even more unnecessary questions.

That is what I am afraid will happen. It is already happening and it won't get any better when I download them. I am almost finished with the process and the only positive thing that the downloaded tactics might show the eventual user of them is: how simple tactics are built up...

[jascko]

jascko if you look at the tactics set you will see that ive included on the name of teh tactics

this is what they look like on my tactics screen

It looks good. Still I think by reading the hole thread will be most usefull. But what you have done here will without doubt save time for many.

[stvndysn]

oh yes i agree, reading the OP's is a must

[Loversleaper]

oh yes i agree, reading the OP's is a must

I am having difficulties uploading my tactics from mediefire. In the last forum it was easy to upload, and I somehow can't seem to get it right. Is there an easy explaination...?

[stvndysn]

i have included a mirror from filefront

check post 188

[Code]

I think they are still not 100% right I'm not sure, just had a quick look through it. Loversleaper, whether upload it to www.zshare.net or www.filefront.com , they're quite easy to upload and never made problems for me.

[stvndysn]

one thing i noticed when putting the tactics together is that focus passing isnt included in some of them is that intentional loversleaper leaving it to the user to decide

[Loversleaper]

I think they are still not 100% right I'm not sure, just had a quick look through it. Loversleaper, whether upload it to www.zshare.net or www.filefront.com , they're quite easy to upload and never made problems for me.

Got through all of that but having difficulties getting the link right in the post. At the bottem of the Tactic Section I have tried but it just isn't working out for me... don't know if I should email it to someone who can, because I apparently will have no difficulties doing that. (But please don't post emails in posts and send them to me personally, thanks..). Or help...