433 Reigista pairing

[ThomasHK1979]

I use Tonali as a Regista in my 433 system. He performs AMAZING. But with my two other CMs i struggle more. Couple of questions

• Which roles would you suggest for my CMs?
• As I am playing in Italy, so I would like to use a Mezzala. But how should the paring be to get the best out of a mezzala?

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by ThomasHK1979

[SixPointer]

9 goals from kessie from CM is a good return. And both have good average ratings so seems to be not to bad. 
 

but key to it all is you need to think off the system as a whole rather than just two positions. Like what do you want from them in terms of the overall system? Do you want one winning the ball breaking up play do you want one to be a goal threat. You don’t really need a creator as that’s the regista. But think on it as a whole. You have a very very attacking front 3.  

[summatsupeer]

38 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

I use Tonali as a Regista in my 433 system. He performs AMAZING. But with my two other CMs i struggle more. Couple of questions

• Which roles would you suggest for my CMs?

I'd suggest this is due to the REG playing in the same areas as the CM pair but is given the ball more.

Quote

• As I am playing in Italy, so I would like to use a Mezzala. But how should the paring be to get the best out of a mezzala?

Look at the big picture not just pairs.  If you want to use a MEZ you need to look at the combinations around him and then how those players combine with who are around them.  With such a rigid system (forwards attack, midfielders support, defenders defend/support) I see no point in a MEZ.

Quote

 

Whilst Tonali is doing well I don't see the point for a REG in that system.  Its fast, everyone is trying through balls and there's two other midfielders in similar areas.  REG suit slower possession style systems to give them time to roam around, in faster styles he's going to be holding hands with that CM pair a lot of the time.  In a fast attacking system I think a DLP-Su would do just as well and offer more defensive cover with two WB-Su (Auto on Positive mentality = Support duty).

There's other things I could suggest but your 1st in April so i'd not go crazy, if its working its working.

[ThomasHK1979]

5 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

I'd suggest this is due to the REG playing in the same areas as the CM pair but is given the ball more.

Look at the big picture not just pairs.  If you want to use a MEZ you need to look at the combinations around him and then how those players combine with who are around them.  With such a rigid system (forwards attack, midfielders support, defenders defend/support) I see no point in a MEZ.

Whilst Tonali is doing well I don't see the point for a REG in that system.  Its fast, everyone is trying through balls and there's two other midfielders in similar areas.  REG suit slower possession style systems to give them time to roam around, in faster styles he's going to be holding hands with that CM pair a lot of the time.  In a fast attacking system I think a DLP-Su would do just as well and offer more defensive cover with two WB-Su (Auto on Positive mentality = Support duty).

There's other things I could suggest but your 1st in April so i'd not go crazy, if its working its working.

Thanks. Let me here your suggestions. I’ve changed from 4231 system to 433 to get my wingers to perform better. 

17 minutes ago, SixPointer said:

9 goals from kessie from CM is a good return. And both have good average ratings so seems to be not to bad. 
 

but key to it all is you need to think off the system as a whole rather than just two positions. Like what do you want from them in terms of the overall system? Do you want one winning the ball breaking up play do you want one to be a goal threat. You don’t really need a creator as that’s the regista. But think on it as a whole. You have a very very attacking front 3.  

Kessie is penalty taker and his best performances was in my 4231 system. 

[summatsupeer]

9 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

Thanks. Let me here your suggestions. I’ve changed from 4231 system to 433 to get my wingers to perform better. 

Firstly what do you expect from each winger?  Did you change there roles and/or duties when you changed formation?

[ThomasHK1979]

11 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

Firstly what do you expect from each winger?  Did you change there roles and/or duties when you changed formation?

Score goals. But they are doing fine. My main focus is to find the right roles for the two CMs. I would like to play somehow like FC Bayern IRL. 

[SixPointer]

1 hour ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

Score goals. But they are doing fine. My main focus is to find the right roles for the two CMs. I would like to play somehow like FC Bayern IRL. 

Bayern don’t use a regista. The also use a 4231. I feel like your no looking at the system as a whole enough. 

[SixPointer]

1 hour ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

Score goals. But they are doing fine. My main focus is to find the right roles for the two CMs. I would like to play somehow like FC Bayern IRL. 

There is also a lot of threads on Bayern have a look at them it will help. 

[summatsupeer]

53 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

Score goals. But they are doing fine. My main focus is to find the right roles for the two CMs.

Whilst focus is the CM pair, got to look at whats going on around them.  I've said this a lot recently but one of the main issues I see in 433s (FMs 4141 DM Wide) is the AMC area barely being used due to CMs going wider or deep.  Your front 3 are all taking risks and making forward runs so won't really use that area.  CM-Su and BBM-Su will use it, but only once into the final third, and at that point the front 3 are likely running out of room to run into.  With a REG i'd want the CM's to spread (higher, wider or hold) to try and give the REG space but then that AMC area is again not really used.

Basically I think this is a case of the CM pair suffering due to what is going on around them.  My preference would be to try:

1. ST on support duty, not sure role, maybe DLF so he helps link and could draw defence higher for the wide forwards runs.
2. CM-At to get forward early to combine with the ST earlier.  Would have to see how combines with wide forwards though since both cut inside.
3. DLP-Su or DLP-De instead of REG-Su so he anchors the midfield rather than trying to roam up with them, this can allow the CM pair to work the AMCL + AMCR area.  Could move playmaker into CM strata but he'd come deep for the ball whilst the front 3 are high so could isolate them.

53 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

I would like to play somehow like FC Bayern IRL. 

You haven't shared your 4231 which Bayern used most recently.

I would say generally that Lew and Muller were DLF-Su + SS-At for me with support duty wide forwards so it often looked like a 442/424.

[ThomasHK1979]

2 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

Whilst focus is the CM pair, got to look at whats going on around them.  I've said this a lot recently but one of the main issues I see in 433s (FMs 4141 DM Wide) is the AMC area barely being used due to CMs going wider or deep.  Your front 3 are all taking risks and making forward runs so won't really use that area.  CM-Su and BBM-Su will use it, but only once into the final third, and at that point the front 3 are likely running out of room to run into.  With a REG i'd want the CM's to spread (higher, wider or hold) to try and give the REG space but then that AMC area is again not really used.

Basically I think this is a case of the CM pair suffering due to what is going on around them.  My preference would be to try:

1. ST on support duty, not sure role, maybe DLF so he helps link and could draw defence higher for the wide forwards runs.
2. CM-At to get forward early to combine with the ST earlier.  Would have to see how combines with wide forwards though since both cut inside.
3. DLP-Su or DLP-De instead of REG-Su so he anchors the midfield rather than trying to roam up with them, this can allow the CM pair to work the AMCL + AMCR area.  Could move playmaker into CM strata but he'd come deep for the ball whilst the front 3 are high so could isolate them.

You haven't shared your 4231 which Bayern used most recently.

I would say generally that Lew and Muller were DLF-Su + SS-At for me with support duty wide forwards so it often looked like a 442/424.

I’m not saying copying Bayern but inspired. Fast short passing and running. 

[summatsupeer]

11 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

I’m not saying copying Bayern but inspired. Fast short passing and running. 

Thats about as generic as you can get.  From that all I can say is if you want shorter passes then you need the players to be closer to support each other and give options, definitely not the front 3 on attack duty.

[ThomasHK1979]

1 hour ago, summatsupeer said:

Thats about as generic as you can get.  From that all I can say is if you want shorter passes then you need the players to be closer to support each other and give options, definitely not the front 3 on attack duty.

Okay. Just won Serie A In the first season. So guess it’s okay. 

[SixPointer]

2 hours ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

Okay. Just won Serie A In the first season. So guess it’s okay. 

Hahah you can’t complain to much at that!! 

[Bunkerossian]

As I'm struggling with Milan personally, I definitely found this thread interesting.

[ThomasHK1979]

20 hours ago, Bunkerossian said:

As I'm struggling with Milan personally, I definitely found this thread interesting.

The Regista role this year is out of this world. 

[fivetwelvepony]

How does your CF-A perform? I've been toying with a 4-1-4-1 lately, but I'm having a hard time getting the forward right. The CF-A doesn't seem to be involved much -- only around 5-10 passes per game, while the DLF-S gets around 30-40 passes per game, depending on the style of the buildup. Neither scores or assists all that much, but at least the DLF is involved in the buildup.

The suggestions to the OP are that a CM-A might do the trick. I am curious how this compares to the AP-A and the MZ-A. Would the MZ-A drift wide too much and not provide that link in the AMC space? Does the AP stay too deep, even with the attack duty?

As an aside, I have tested a MZ alongside a BBM, and I was surprised to see their average positions with the ball be almost on top of one another. Mysteries never cease.

[ThomasHK1979]

1 hour ago, fivetwelvepony said:

How does your CF-A perform? I've been toying with a 4-1-4-1 lately, but I'm having a hard time getting the forward right. The CF-A doesn't seem to be involved much -- only around 5-10 passes per game, while the DLF-S gets around 30-40 passes per game, depending on the style of the buildup. Neither scores or assists all that much, but at least the DLF is involved in the buildup.

The suggestions to the OP are that a CM-A might do the trick. I am curious how this compares to the AP-A and the MZ-A. Would the MZ-A drift wide too much and not provide that link in the AMC space? Does the AP stay too deep, even with the attack duty?

As an aside, I have tested a MZ alongside a BBM, and I was surprised to see their average positions with the ball be almost on top of one another. Mysteries never cease.

I changed Leao to CFs. My CM to Mezzala att. And my my IFa to IFs in the side with Mezzala. Both WB I set to Automatic. Works fantastic. Leao scored 25 goals in Serie A.