Wolf_pd Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 In the database there is one player over 1 Million (per week....), Messi 253 players are paid over 100K of which 99 in England (all but 28 at Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal) 17 in France (all but two at PSG.....) 20 in Germany (all but 7 at Bayern....) 46 in Spain (all but 5 at Real, Atletico Madrid or Barcelona) 38 in Italy (half at Juventus) 25 in China 7 other players at teams in India (??????), Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and USA So..... if you wonder why your game always look the same? Money talks..... While checking that I also looked at nationalities, based nation and salary, because you can differentiate between salary for all players, foreigners and local players The 99 in England paid more than 100K are 22 English and 77 non-English (yeah..... ) The 17 in France are 3 French and 14 non-French The 20 in Germany are 11 German and 9 non-German (that's actually quite nice) The 46 in Spain are 19 Spanish and 27 non-Spanish The 38 in Italy are 7 Italian and 31 non-Italian I didn't check the other ones as for UEFA it is just one foreign player in Russia and Turkey each So, has anyone tried something, taming the big money teams via max salary and what are your results? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alian62 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) Well the A-League has a salary cap of about 3 million per team with exceptions made for Western United as mentioned below The Hyundai A-League Salary Cap is $3.2 million for all Clubs (excl. Western United FC) for the 2019/20 Season. The Hyundai A-League Salary Cap for Western United FC is $3.6 million for the 2019/20 Season. All Clubs must spend at least the Salary Floor which is $2.880 million. The Salary Cap applies to the 20 to 23 Players that Clubs have registered to their Hyundai A-League Player Roster. Unless specifically exempt, all payments and benefits (eg. cars, accommodation, etc) provided by a Club to a Player are included in the Club’s Salary Cap. This is suppose to keep clubs on an even level but saying that Sydney FC have been such a dominant team in the last few years that clubs are calling for an end to it . But the league itself is not a huge league in the number of teams that play in it so the Salary cap work well . It also helps homegrown players rather than having imports come in and steal all the big money even though they are allowed 4 imported players i think Edited September 6, 2020 by alian62 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 Is there a salary max for players (like for instance MLS) in A-league? I assume Western United is either really bad or really new? I have been looking at an alternative Australia database where they join forces with New Zealand to form Tasmania (not the island, just a nation called after Abel Tasman) and then play a season based on a regional/provincial teams. Would be interesting to use those salary cap rules there as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 First round of my test was no success yet. The exempted players can be seen, but the clubs don't take action on players that are too high on the wage scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alian62 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 19 hours ago, Wolf_pd said: Is there a salary max for players (like for instance MLS) in A-league? I assume Western United is either really bad or really new? I have been looking at an alternative Australia database where they join forces with New Zealand to form Tasmania (not the island, just a nation called after Abel Tasman) and then play a season based on a regional/provincial teams. Would be interesting to use those salary cap rules there as well. Yes Western United is a new team with another joining next year . As far as i know the players are not salary capped but you have to fit everyone into the 3.2 million salary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 I am seeing an alternative for the salary cap. Not player based, but team/competition based. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 Well, I put a 75 million max salary cap in the English Premier Division and does work wonders. Because I only put it in there, not sure about the overall effect, but it worked well for England. The same teams did get the championship, but the overall competitiveness increased. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 I am now building it into Spain, England, France, Italy and Germany at the same time. If it works, I might lower it to something between 60 and 70 and see what happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 Some interesting results in the first test of 75 Million for the top 5 competitions. England, not much difference actually. A bit more variation in the sense that first Arsenal and then Liverpool drop out of the top 6, but not more than that. France: Olympique Lyon takes top position for most of the time, with AS Monaco and PSG sometimes grabbing top spot. A change of the guard, but probably only because Lyon got hurt the least by the cap. Germany: It is Borussia and Bayer instead of Borussia and Bayern. Again, this seems to be a case of getting hurt the least by the cap Italy: No Juventus/Zebrze, but Inter, Lazio and Roma. Do we see a trend here? Juventus clearly the cap casualty Spain: the most interesting outcome, Valencia wins the first season, then Barcelona takes two championships (one in commanding fashion even), but then it is Betis Sevilla twice, Real Sociedad, Atletico, Valencia, Real Madrid and Barcelona. The interesting thing here is that Real Madrid was outside the top 6 for 7 seasons out of 10 seasons! There is a lot of variation, with 10 different clubs getting a top 6 in that period and 12 different clubs getting into Europe. So for Spain there is a definite result. Some things I noted during testing, the teams suffering the most seem the ones with the biggest expenditure (makes kinda sense), but mostly the ones with the most money tied up in 1, 2 or 3 players, like Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG and Bayern. For England it seems the gap between the top 5-6 money teams and the rest is still too big, so a 50-60 million cap might be even better. The other reason why I consider that cap is because in Europe, things mostly are still between German and English, teams. The Spanish drop out of the race, but are replaced by the Portuguese. The Italian and French turn up only once, so that is in a sense good news. So there is still a bit more to research and I need to consider the salaries for Portugal as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 Moved the cap back 52 million. This means a max 1 million expenditure per week. This also means that Barcelona become a one man (Messi) team, because Messie is paid more than 1million per week. Same for Juventus btw, who pay Ronaldo nearly 1million.... Results at 60 million were interesting to say the least. Southampton won the Premier League! And from what I see the teams that take over are the ones closest to the new cap. So expected the teams in the 50million range to take over the various championships. This also poses the question how to work out the European Cups, as putting in the cap at the new teams (Ajax is very strong under a capped 60M Euro Cup) are so big, because they don't have a cup at home first and will diseappear again when the national cap is put in.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 I have checked all wages after 10 years of play and the best players/players with highest values are just 100Million, but max salary is 195K, which compared to the generous amounts of money thrown around before the changes is pretty OK. Competitiveness varies per game, sometimes you get a completely wacky competition with each year a different champion, sometimes it is one team that gets a change and stays on the top. Makes sense. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 Europe is still dominated by the big teams, which can be explained by how the players are divided over the teams. Surprisingly a player wants to leave Bayern Munich for a bigger club :o but in Europe there are only 7 teams with a better reputation to be honest and in the world that's 8 clubs (Flamengo is added), so that's nothing to be worried about. I think it is time to do some extra tuning and then I am close to what I am looking for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 12, 2020 Author Share Posted September 12, 2020 Another thing which may help is edit the allowable loss for Premier League, it is so much bigger than other nation. It also means the bigger teams cannot spend outrageously on new players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 13, 2020 Author Share Posted September 13, 2020 I think I have cracked this one with the FFP (so it can work!! ) The rules allow for a 105 million loss in 3 years, which I moved to 15. That did something, but wasn't the final one yet. The kicker was the money the team is allowed to use in the calculation of the allowable loss. If you change it from 90 allowable million, to 10 (so essentially Man City can no longer invest to fill any holes ), you suddenly end up with a lot of different champions: 26 years of play 2 English winners in Champions Cup and one time a losing finalist. That's something different from the regular ones. The national champions: Tottenham Man City 2 Everton 4 Man Utd 3 Norwich 1 Leicester Aston Villa 4 Chelsea 5 Liverpool 3 Burnley We haven't even seen that since the Premier League! So that's what I am going to add to Spain, Germany, Italy and France and see what happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krakonico Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Interesting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptCanuck Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 @wolf_pd - neat thread :-) When you lower the allowed salary expenditures, you do that at the start of July? How do clubs react to the constraint? Do they release players and how do they decide who to release? Those players then find another club but on less money? Practically I am trying to picture how it works. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapa Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Hey @Wolf_pd where in the editor is the salary cap setting? Can't for the life of me find it.... Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Hacker Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Sapa said: Hey @Wolf_pd where in the editor is the salary cap setting? Can't for the life of me find it.... Thanks It's in the advanced rules settings for each league. Go to Rules > Add Nation Rules > Add Lower Divisions and Cups to Existing Structures. Select the nation you want to change then go to Rules > Convert to Advanced Rules. You'll find the salary cap options in the fixture rules section of the league that you want to edit (to find out which fixture rules to edit click on the competition you wish to edit and look for a setting called 'Fixture Rules Index'). That will give you the name of the fixture rules that you need to edit. Then when you're on the fixture rules scroll down to a section called 'Squad Selection Rules'. You'll be able to add a salary cap in this section. Edited September 15, 2020 by Unknown Hacker 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapa Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Thanks. Will check it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted September 15, 2020 Author Share Posted September 15, 2020 13 hours ago, CaptCanuck said: @wolf_pd - neat thread :-) When you lower the allowed salary expenditures, you do that at the start of July? How do clubs react to the constraint? Do they release players and how do they decide who to release? Those players then find another club but on less money? Practically I am trying to picture how it works. Thanks! Yes, that happens at the start of the season. Teams either release players or select the players that they can fit under the cap. The transfers happen and result in lower salary at the new teams. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel77 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 @Wolf_pd Could you give a screenshot to see how you do it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Here you go. I am still looking whether I can improve, but that has been a little bit lower priority. Also need to look what happens if I apply the same rules in France, Spain, Germany and Italy. My guess is that I will have to tame Portugal then as well. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel77 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Great! Thank you! I did some tests on my side but the problem is that the clubs don't release their players, so some clubs like PSG have 13 players! So I'm trying something progressive. First of all, lower the salary cap each year (for example from 180M the first year to 100M the fourth year, etc...) and also block contracts at 300,000/month. Freeing players exceeding the salary cap + deactivating Bosman + FFP could give something fairer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 Yeah, you're right. Implementing these rules would go together with at least moving players or resetting contracts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel77 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 Yes on my current test the best result is France where there is the most movement, many of them coming back after 2 years. The PSG took advantage of a rule I tested to extend MBappé (I allowed 2 players above the maximum salary) and I'm curious to see if Neymar will go free. On the other hand in England there are not many moves, few arrivals and also few departures at the moment. I am also curious to see what Messi and Ronaldo will do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel77 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 EDIT: Looking more closely, I have just seen that Martial, Gabriel Jesus, Alison and Firmino went free in their first year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Samuel77 said: Yes on my current test the best result is France where there is the most movement, many of them coming back after 2 years. The PSG took advantage of a rule I tested to extend MBappé (I allowed 2 players above the maximum salary) and I'm curious to see if Neymar will go free. On the other hand in England there are not many moves, few arrivals and also few departures at the moment. I am also curious to see what Messi and Ronaldo will do. Messi went to Atletico doing a Suarez in one of my testgames Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel77 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 On my side Messi is free in River, Suarez and Di Maria in Werder, Neymar is for sale for 100M, Ozil is in Braga, Aguero is in Boca. Finding the right settings has to be top top ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 Yeah, you really need to consider doing a lot of countries to make this work in a way that the problem doesn't just move to another country. I noticed for instance while Europe was doing a lot better in terms of money and foreign players, China suddenly had a lot of great players. Not my intention! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattylamb Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 On 15/10/2020 at 11:51, Samuel77 said: Great! Thank you! I did some tests on my side but the problem is that the clubs don't release their players, so some clubs like PSG have 13 players! So I'm trying something progressive. First of all, lower the salary cap each year (for example from 180M the first year to 100M the fourth year, etc...) and also block contracts at 300,000/month. Freeing players exceeding the salary cap + deactivating Bosman + FFP could give something fairer. How do you set an upper limit on contracts please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel77 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Il y a 3 heures, mattylamb a dit : How do you set an upper limit on contracts please? As soon as I have my computer at hand I'll send it to you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel77 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 @mattylamb Here is the screenshot. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel77 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 I'm posting this here because it remains in the field of finance What is the difference between the two framed options? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattylamb Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 22 hours ago, Samuel77 said: @mattylamb Here is the screenshot. Thanks Samuel! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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