FM20 - A Whole New World?

[phillipe124]

So, after being a die hard fan of FM and Champ Manager before it for many years now, I seem to have got stuck with FM12 for year after year. I did try the versions after FM12  purchasing FM13, 14, 16, 17 & 18 but felt the match engines were poor (each to their own in that sense), so stuck with FM 12. I have now decided that my recent purchase of a new gaming laptop means I definitely should switch to FM20. I just thought I'd give feedback on my experience to date as I've always been of the opinion that very, very little changes in FM and actually, they just dress it up differently. By that, I mean the new stuff we see in new versions has always been there but it hasn't always been displayed in the way it is now. 

So my first experience is that of purchasing a player. For reference I'm managing Vac in the Hungarian Division II. First player bought, press conference before my first (pre-season) game begins. I'm told the presss conference will focus on my new signing. Interesting I thought, I've never had the "preview" of the press conference, but not that impressive really, the game knows what it will ask and always has done. So the questions from the press about my new signing? WOW!! Exactly the same as 8 years ago. EXACTLY!! I honestly couldn't believe it. How is this even possible? I'm quite stunned that absolutely no progress has been made on this aspect of the game in 8 years. It was always repetitive and after a while, quite boring but I just thought FM12 being old hat was to blame. To see the same thing in FM20 is extremely disappointing and quite frankly, an absolute joke. SI really need to raise their game in this department. 

Anyway, onwards with my adventure. I'll be giving my thoughts on the experiences I encounter along the way should anyone be interested. If not it's no hardship to ignore. If you'd like to add anything and give advice or indeed comment on my thoughts with your own experiences or frustrations then that would be great. I'm not trying to be negative here, I'm trying to give some perspective and give the thoughts of someone who has spent nearly 12,000 hours playing FM12. So far though, I'm finding myself bogged down in irrelevant stuff which is far too detailed and nearly a day in, I've not even played a game!

[XaW]

Seems like you should give the FM Touch variant a go. It's less of the stuffing and more to the point, and that seems to be what you are looking for. Don't think it's a "dumbed" down version, because it's not, it's the same game, but without a few of the stuff you don't want to use. I'd think you should have a go at it, at any rate, and see if it's more your thing.

[phillipe124]

Thanks, it may be worth considering but I've not tried it yet. I like a lot of the stats and don't mind some of the activities but I'm finding that delegating the majority of them is the way to go for me. Vac didn't have much of a structure in place upon my arrival and now I've hired a decent amount to cover the vacancies it's slightly easier. My biggest point so far would be that all the stats I'm seeing have always been there, they're just being used and displayed more obviously, more forced upon me rather than in the background. I've always known where to find them in the past without having them thrust upon me like this. Speaking of hiring people, it does make you realise just how ridiculous football has become. Head of this and Chief that. It must be a nightmare for the real managers!

Edited March 14, 2020 by phillipe124

[XaW]

I see what you are getting at, but luckily you can delegate it if you want. The reason I'm suggesting the Touch version is because a lot of users seems to undervaluate it, mostly because of the name. It's the same game, but more streamlined and quicker. I'm playing the full fat version myself, but I enjoy a bit of micromanagement, so I don't mind. The things I don't like at all, I usually delegate, the rest I do on my own.

[Tyburn]

Press conferences are definitely something I’ve been banging on about needing an improvement for a very long time.

I understand there is only so much that can be done, as they’re linked to the AI, and just how much variety is there in an actual press conference? It’s no coincidence that most real managers look bored out of their brains half the time. 

And in fairness there are slight differences this year. I think the AI is slightly better at working out where you are in a season, club issues, that reporters will ask you about.

But overall the whole experience is a little stale. We don’t need 5 answers for every question. The questions could be more varied. Often questions in real press conferences aren’t even about football! More variety here is most definitely needed.

Even just changing the wording about a bit, even though it’s the same question, sentiment and link to how the AI treats you, would go a long way to shaking it up.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Tyburn

[XaW]

15 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Press conferences are definitely something I’ve been banging on about needing an improvement for a very long time.

I understand there is only so much that can be done, as they’re linked to the AI, and just how much variety is there in an actual press conference? It’s no coincidence that most real managers look bored out of their brains half the time. 

And in fairness there are slight differences this year. I think the AI is slightly better at working out where you are in a season, club issues, that reporters will ask you about.

But overall the whole experience is a little stale. We don’t need 5 answers for every question. The questions could be more varied. Often questions in real press conferences aren’t even about football! More variety here is most definitely needed.

Even just changing the wording about a bit, even though it’s the same question, sentiment and link to how the AI treats you, would go a long way to shaking it up.

I think SI have asked for ideas before if anyone have suggestions about how to improve press conferences. Since they are quite repetitive in real life, it's kind of realistic as it is, even if it's not very fun.

As you said, they have improved them the last few season, at least in regards to contextual questions and more relevant ones than before. At least we are not asked about a random transfer in a midtable team just as you won the league!

I don't have many suggestions myself as to how press conferences could be improved, but if you have some good ideas, I'm sure SI would like to see it in the suggestions subforum. A lot of the suggestions in there have made their way into the game, so it's not like throwing ideas into the shredder.

[phillipe124]

So, first match experience done. Bit of a strange one as obviously I'm used to the slower pace of FM12 and the ball dynamics are certainly not great in there. However, I always felt the player movement and the general human dynamics during movement in FM12 was good. My first concern in FM20 is around the player movement/human dyanamics. Quite frequently my players appeared to be walking slowly (as if strolling down the street) when in control of the ball and an opposition player was near them or even facing them. It didn't seem very realistic at all. It was as if they were mates meeting in the street for a chat but with a ball there! I have been trying to think of a time when I've actually seen that happen in real life and I just can't. Anyone who has played football knows it doesn't feel natural to walk with the ball, it's more of a slow jog when you're assessing your options. My player would be walking with the ball, the opposition player was walking and facing him (within a metre of him) and then completely out of context to his walking action, the opposition player would launch into a slide tackle. Bizarre! I thought the animations would be a hell of a lot better than this by now. Because of the way the players move, I just feel there's no flow at all to the feel of the match. It's all very un-natural.

As for the match experience as a whole, not bad. I slowed things down a bit for the second half as before I knew it, the first half was over. Didn't really get a chance to adjust anything because of the default speed being so high in between highlights. 

Summary would be, graphics aren't bad. Stadiums and players are reasonably represented and have improved slightly. Animations/player dynamics are poor and have gone backwards. The match as a whole felt a bit rushed and hard to assess. We're talking 8 whole years here to get something right. 8 years!! I can't believe how little progress has been made in many aspects of the game. I intend to plod on for a significant length of time now to see what my feeling is after half a season or so.

One thing I'm really not keen on in the star based system. Yes, it's always been there in one form or another but it seems to be the leading indicator of who you should choose now. That may seem like a strange criticism, but in my view, it's dumbing the game down. Anyone can shove the player with the best star rating for that system or position in to their team, but shouldn't a manager have to use his intuition and knowledge to choose the best player based on attributes? Not sure if I can change this or make the star system less prevalent in the game but I don't think I can? I'm used to classic tactics and player instructions and defining exactly how I want my player to behave rather than an out of the box 'poacher' or 'ball winning midfielder'. Choosing a role for a position and then assigning a player to said role feels so wrong, far too easy and too rigid. I have a player who is a great CM but can't play as a playmaker for toffee. Should I just find a playmaker for that role? It all seems a little bit 'plug and play' and round object into a round hole, football isn't that simple. There are far more intacacies to it and this system just doesn't feel right.

[phillipe124]

41 minutes ago, XaW said:

I think SI have asked for ideas before if anyone have suggestions about how to improve press conferences. Since they are quite repetitive in real life, it's kind of realistic as it is, even if it's not very fun.

As you said, they have improved them the last few season, at least in regards to contextual questions and more relevant ones than before. At least we are not asked about a random transfer in a midtable team just as you won the league!

I don't have many suggestions myself as to how press conferences could be improved, but if you have some good ideas, I'm sure SI would like to see it in the suggestions subforum. A lot of the suggestions in there have made their way into the game, so it's not like throwing ideas into the shredder.

The questions I faced in the pre match press conference regarding the transfer I made were literally, word for word, exactly the same as FM12. How can they not improve after 8 years?

[sporadicsmiles]

3 hours ago, phillipe124 said:

To see the same thing in FM20 is extremely disappointing and quite frankly, an absolute joke. SI really need to raise their game in this department. 

Press conferences are boring and repetitive in real life. Have you ever watched them? There is nothing you can do with them to make them more interesting. I persist with them for the benefits you can get for the team. What would you change about them? 

9 minutes ago, phillipe124 said:

Didn't really get a chance to adjust anything because of the default speed being so high in between highlights. 

I mean this is something you can set as you want. I watch on comprehensive so I have all the time in the world to make changes. If you find the match too fast, then slow it down or change the highlight mode. This is something you can set up exactly how you want. 

11 minutes ago, phillipe124 said:

One thing I'm really not keen on in the star based system. Yes, it's always been there in one form or another but it seems to be the leading indicator of who you should choose now. That may seem like a strange criticism, but in my view, it's dumbing the game down. Anyone can shove the player with the best star rating for that system or position in to their team, but shouldn't a manager have to use his intuition and knowledge to choose the best player based on attributes?

More stars does not automatically mean better player. You can use your intuition as a manager. You have to look at the attributes and know what you expect from a player, and if they can do as you want. Plus, stars are relative to your squad, so they give at-a-glance information on where the weak area of your squad is (according to your coaches). I use them as a rough guide, but they are always secondary to the actual attributes. If I think a 1 star player can do a job for me, I will entirely ignore that 1 star. The game is dumbed down as much as you choose to dumb it down. Casual users can use stars, other users can use attributes. It caters to everyone. 

14 minutes ago, phillipe124 said:

Choosing a role for a position and then assigning a player to said role feels so wrong, far too easy and too rigid. I have a player who is a great CM but can't play as a playmaker for toffee. Should I just find a playmaker for that role? It all seems a little bit 'plug and play' and round object into a round hole, football isn't that simple. There are far more intacacies to it and this system just doesn't feel right.

The roles are just guidelines for how a player will behave on the pitch, and it is a step up from the slider system we had before this. Although there is a lot that could be improved here. And the point about the playmaker? Just look at what his attributes say he can and cannot do, and build a role from you in your squad. However you set up your tactic, you are going to think "right this player needs to be creative to make changes", "this player is a goal scorer", "this player needs to be solid defensively" etc. This is actually how you should be setting up a tactic, so in essence it is an extension of this thought process.

The intricacy comes from the fact you have to choose your roles and duties so they interact in a sensible way. It is not simply the case of sticking 11 roles to fit your players and it will work. Every role will interact with every other role in some way, and you can create a huge amount of intricacy with this. Add in that players have PPMs, the different team and player instructions. I think the tactics engine does a reasonable job of allowing to sensibly set up football in a way that appeals to new, casual and experienced users alike. How would you prefer it to be ?

[phillipe124]

36 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Press conferences are boring and repetitive in real life. Have you ever watched them? There is nothing you can do with them to make them more interesting. I persist with them for the benefits you can get for the team. What would you change about them? 

I watch the press conferences all the time. Are you really suggesting that after 8 years, a journalist asks the same question, word for word? Seeing as you ask, I would change it so the more a journalist gets to know you, they ask questions in a more personal way and the relationship you have with a journalist can affect the questions they ask. If you're friendly with them, they ask questions and the answers you give are printed in the manner with which you respond. He also takes it a little easier on you and can be jokey in the press conference, having a laugh sometimes. If you're not friendly with them and have a bad relationship, they can become known to twist your words slightly and create false headlines, ask more difficult questions over and over and don't share the same sense of humour as you. It's all too robotic and too repetitive and only has an impact on the player's morale really. What managers say has a massive impact on everything now. That's not reflected enough in the game. This is only the tip of the iceberg and there are many, many other ways to change the way they work but all I can think is SI haven't. Why, I don't know but they haven't. Perhaps they feel glitzy new layouts sell, who knows.

Quote

I mean this is something you can set as you want. I watch on comprehensive so I have all the time in the world to make changes. If you find the match too fast, then slow it down or change the highlight mode. This is something you can set up exactly how you want. 

As I said further on, I did change it...

 

36 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

More stars does not automatically mean better player. You can use your intuition as a manager. You have to look at the attributes and know what you expect from a player, and if they can do as you want. Plus, stars are relative to your squad, so they give at-a-glance information on where the weak area of your squad is (according to your coaches). I use them as a rough guide, but they are always secondary to the actual attributes. If I think a 1 star player can do a job for me, I will entirely ignore that 1 star. The game is dumbed down as much as you choose to dumb it down. Casual users can use stars, other users can use attributes. It caters to everyone. 

I just feel that's the way the game is going. I'm new to it and that's the impression I get, stars are all important. I get what you're saying and I agree but it's not the way I'd like to see the game progress. Fingers crossed it doesn't.

Quote

36 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

The roles are just guidelines for how a player will behave on the pitch, and it is a step up from the slider system we had before this. Although there is a lot that could be improved here. And the point about the playmaker? Just look at what his attributes say he can and cannot do, and build a role from you in your squad. However you set up your tactic, you are going to think "right this player needs to be creative to make changes", "this player is a goal scorer", "this player needs to be solid defensively" etc. This is actually how you should be setting up a tactic, so in essence it is an extension of this thought process.

The intricacy comes from the fact you have to choose your roles and duties so they interact in a sensible way. It is not simply the case of sticking 11 roles to fit your players and it will work. Every role will interact with every other role in some way, and you can create a huge amount of intricacy with this. Add in that players have PPMs, the different team and player instructions. I think the tactics engine does a reasonable job of allowing to sensibly set up football in a way that appeals to new, casual and experienced users alike. How would you prefer it to be ?

I have to admit it's hard to explain this. The best I can do is this. How would you desribe Gerrard when he played? He was box to box, deep lying playmaker, attacking midfielder and god knows what else rolled into one. In the game, I have to choose a role for him to play in, whether it be any one of those I chose. That's too rigid for me. Then if I want to change the players role ever so slightly so he performs slightly different to the role of a box to box, how do I do that? The options are limited in terms of what can be dited once you choose a role. So if I want to raise a Gerrard , someone who can do everything, how do I do that? How do I instruct a youngster to be a deep lying playmaker but also someone who can get forward and smash goals in? If I tell him to do something with this system, he'll do it and not anything else won't he? How can he break the shackles of the role you define for him and become his own player?

Edited March 14, 2020 by phillipe124

[WelshMourinho]

Press conferences are often a load of nonsense tbh. Aside from the repetitiveness which can't be avoided, some of the actual questions themselves are ridiculous, especially the ones that look at previous records and all that.

"You've failed to score past Alisson in your previous three meetings, why do you find it so hard to get past him blah blah blah" because Liverpool batter us everytime we play as they're top of the league and we're in the bottom half. 

"Who do you think will get relegated this season?" has that question actually ever been asked in a press conference lmao. Imagine Guardiola turning round to a journalist and going "Norwich cos I reckon they're crap."

I'd love just getting new questions that don't focus on the superstitious nature of FM. 

[Tyburn]

Does anyone else notice after some answers their pc hang for a split second? My theory is the AI altering something for the next match, based on what I’ve said. Nearly always negatively. Ha. As soon as I answer a question and I get a split second hang (extremely rarely now as I’ve worked out which questions to “no comment”) I’m immediately thinking “oh oh”.

Is quite amusing seeing the AI process user input, albeit a little disconcerting.