"Sometimes losers teach more than winners" - Zdenek Zeman's attacking 4-3-3

[Raymond85]

 

 

So this thread is my first tactical analisys and attempt to emulate a tactical style in FM.

Rather than a finished product i will show you my approach and development to Zdenek Zeman's controversial 4-3-3 gaming style.

 

Where i did my research (disclaimer: it's all italian):

http://assoanalisti.it/analisi-tattica-pescara-zdenek-zeman-2017-2018/

https://www.ilpost.it/2017/05/12/zdenek-zeman-70/

http://contropiede.ilgiornale.it/tattica-lanalisi-del-4-3-3-di-zeman/

https://www.ideacalcio.net/moduli/il-4-3-3-di-zdenek-zeman.html

http://www.supremoboemo.it/cms/index.php/silenzio-parla-zeman/73-zeman-ha-tenuto-una-straordinaria-lezione-di-tattica

http://schemitattiche.blogspot.com/2010/04/zeman.html

http://invasoredicampo.blogspot.com/2011/06/lavagna-tattica-zeman-ed-il-suo-4-3-3.html

 

 

Who is Zdenek Zeman?

He is the man who revolutionized attacking football  with a stricked disiplined fluid very offensive style, extreemly demanding on the phisycal side, yet rewarding when things work out but also disastrous when things don't.

The community either loves or hates his style, he has recieved lots of negative criticism, but also lots of admiring words, for example Guardiola in 2011 said about him: "i think that he has always seen football in his way, and he just keeps going. Finding people like this helps football so much. His teams are beautiful to watch, they respect everyone. They just keep going, it doesn't matter who they face".

 

Zdenek Zeman is not a winner, has never been one. He just plays his spectacular football and has left a lot of influence on some managers like Eusebio di Francesco (who he had at Roma as a player" and also Guardiola's style resembles to a certain point what we can see with Zeman's teams (the spaniard was playing for Brescia in Zeman's years in Serie A).

 

So let's have a look at his tactics:

 

We're looking at a flat 4-3-3 both in and out of position, constanly searching for triangles in offensive action construction of the game.

Zeman's teams have a few simple priciples that never ever go differently, whatever the score or the opposition. That's the rigid part of the system.

We have a very high defence, that hugs midfield, with strict zonal marking. A line of engagement that starts in the opposition's penalty box. Extremly urgent and high pressing all over the pitch, for the whole match.

Short high tempo passing, maximum two touches for each player. Vertical passes, and possession game, looking for the famous triangles to get in dangerous position with passing fixed templates. Overlapping wingbacks, both at the same time, to create constant dangerous overloads going forward.

Immediate counterpress when losing ball possession and most important, never ever hoof the ball forward, as that means it's probable you don't have a way to attack immediatly.

Starting with a sweeper keeper to mop up every long bnall over defence and give supporting passing options, lets see what the team looks like in front of him.

We have an almost flat 4, with two complete wingbacks that need massive pace and resistance to bomb up and down the wings all match long.

The centerbacks are classic defenders who don't shy of passing and starting moves.

The 3 in the middle have a central playmaker who is the brains of the entire squad, and dictates all plays. The 2 lateral central midfielders are carrillero-box to box-mezzala hybrids, they have to both support attack AND defence in every phase of the game.

Two inside forwards who roam and create havoc while still maintaining a strict passing option in the outside triangle of winback-central midfielder-inside forward.

Last but not least a complete forward who has to support play and be the primary goal scoring threat.

 

Lets see some of that in action:

Defensive positioning:

You can see the base line tight defending, high up the pitch when the ball is coming long towards defenders.

 

Now, i could not find some single videos with breaks of play, but there is this fantastic piece that explains perfectly every play situatione, even if in italian, it's quite understandable. It's really enlighting

 

And now let's see my take on the tactic

 

 

Mentality: without a doubt very attacking, i will start like this and see if it is too much and slip it down a notch

In possession:

-shorter passing, be more disciplined and much higher tempo are what we can see, and that's where we start. I'll keep an eye and make adjustments if something is not working. Overlap left and right may be an overkill, but i will start with them.

 

In transition:

Take short kicks and distribute to full back are a must to Zeman, so we have it too.

Counterpress is the first defensive measure.

 

Out of possession:

Much higher defensive line, tighter marking and offside trap. Here again we will look out for issues and adjust accordingly.

 

SKa has to be a given with the high defensive line

CWBa PI close down less for starter, i don't want to get them on overkill mode, as the tactic asks for that a lot already

CDd PI close down less, as before, i want to see if this makes defence stable. Ideally we would want stoppers, but that would be so much out of balance, and we already have offside trap going.

DLPd he's the heart of the team, he will be quite holding but with the player trait of arriving late in opposition area he will help out offence also, so that'ìs why i didn't go with a support role and PI's making him a little more holding.

CMs PI stay wider for now simple roles, i will look out if it is best to get them roaming, further forward or holding position. Pellegrini is another that arrives late, so maybe i have to look at Nzonzi for some changes if i'm not happy.

IFs PI roam from position, as i want them to be always in the best space for triangles.

CFs as he has to be leading the attack in any way he sees fit.

 

 

 

 

 

This is a work in progress, i haven't played yet one match. In the meantime i wanted to present my project, and get some reactions and maybe some suggestions from the community to how this could work.

I choose Roma because first of all they were Zeman's biggest let down, and i want to see if i can turn things around using his principles. Second of all because the squad was built for his biggest disciple, Di Francesco, and also it looks perfect on paper for our gameplay.

 

 

Hope you enjoy and it gives some insight

[Raymond85]

Starting to feel the system

We used the summer friendlies with the sole purpose to get to know better our tactic, and try and find out patterns and glaring errors and mistakes. And within two matches we had to make two big changes.

I noticed the inside forwards on support were not getting involved at all with attacks, and the whole team was suffering from being positioned too low on the field. Add in overlaps on both sides, and we felt like a kitten instead of the lion we want to be. So the first thing to change was both IFs on attack, and no overlaps, since CWB on both sides should make them happen naturally.

The updated tactic:

 

And here are our summer mixed results. I actually am very happy with what i saw, we are playing a nice attacking flow, and i don't care about the scorelines, the team isn't gelled yet and they are not competitive matches.

 

Though we are off to a very strong start of the season, against one of the best teams, Napoli.

 

Looking for pros and cons

 

So let's get straigh into it, this is how we are starting

 

We played a very good match, and ended winning 2-0. Napoli tried to come back into it, but if i have to be honest, if there was to be another goal, i was pretty confident we were going to score it, as we always felt dangerous going forward and quite solid defending, with all the vulnerabilities we know we have.

We got lucky with an own goal from a set peace early in the match, and a well played attack from wide put Dzeko in an excellent position to double our goals just moments from the break.

 

 

Pros

 

- very solid defending, we had a good game with positioning, anticipation and tackles by our centerbacks everytime Napoli got dangerous.

 

- our triangles and playing schemes were visible the entire match, and we always had different and good passing choices in buildup play

 

- we felt we could actually have scored more, everytime we came forward on the counter in the late stages of the game we got very very dangerous.

 

Cons

- we are vulnerable on the flanks and on well placed overhead through balls. I can't be too preoccupied with this, as it is a known vulnerability of this tactic and wildly accepted. I will keep an eye on it though.

 

- we are a little one dimentional, and we rely on the players flair and decisions up front. But this is another little thing that we have to partialy accept. I'm thinking about some PI on central midfileds though, but i'm not going to touch anything yet.

 

- i'm seeing too many long balls when starting from the back after regaining the ball. I think the match engine won't allow being realistic here, as Zeman's squads never ever play the ball long, but they have to play theirselves out of trouble, and ingame we will always see balls hooft foward. Possible solution's: adding play out of defence is something i might experiment later on.

 

- central midfielders are supporting very well, both in defence and buildup, but they are not getting involved and dangerous forward as they should. Possible solutions:

1. change them to CMa, but i don't like this, it is drastic and will completely spoil the tactic's balance.

2. PI get further forward, and this is my number one idea for now, it might be just enough to get them into position when we are attacking

3. BBM, a different yet similar role. But i'm afraid that all the movement they will do with this role could go and make buildup more difficult, as they would be roaming about and not ready to create our triangles.

 

Here you can see how we were attacking on the flanks as expected, and managed to soak Napoli's more distributed attacks

 

Our shots are clearly in more dangerous areas of the field, and Napoli's don't feel as threatning

 

Average positions show we manage to overload Napoli in every zone of the pitch, as our 4-3-3 covers spaces better than their 4-4-2-

Notice how high up we are postitioned, and how our attacking roles manage to spread out, yet we remain compact and solid behind. It does take a very phisical team though to pull this off, and concentration and decisions are as important too.

You can still see flaws by this average positioning, for example the timid CMs, and not much linking up midfield and attack in central zones. All things i was expecting as i saw them play out over the match.

 

It is only the first match, and i'm planning to watch at least 3 or 4 matches in full detail, without changing anything, to keep getting a feel for the tactic, and to see if the problems i spotted become a pattern or were only so in this single match. After that we can start making some changes, if needed.

[Raymond85]

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[Raymond85]

reserved

[BadAss88]

One of my favorite coaches, curious to see if you make this work..or will it be too much one-dimensional..

[Raymond85]

7 minuti fa, BadAss88 ha scritto:

One of my favorite coaches, curious to see if you make this work..or will it be too much one-dimensional..

I will try. I am waiting to see the first matches, i've gone straight with my gut for now. I hope it can work. We're not looking for results, here, i just want to emulate the system, and get it's spectacular attacking football, even if it means terrible defending at times

[Raymond85]

So far, i'm liking what i see. I have some small issues to resolve, but we are playing somewhat close to what we want to achieve during summer friendlies (even if they are not to be based upon).

I want to show you a preview of those player triangles that are a base of Zeman's tactics.

Here we see Lorenzo Pellegrini (CMs) recieving a ball headed from a defender (in this case our inside forward Under, and that is one of the issues i'm having, he shouldn't track back so much)

 

What happens next is that Florenzi, the CWB, goes wide with a run on the right, providing an option, while Dzeko, the CFs, comes towards to provide another option and create the triangle you can clearly see right after

 

 

So now Pellegrini's choice goes forward to Dzeko's feet, and the latter recieves the pass. In the meantime, Florenzi continues his run so that we can close the triangle and create an overload on the right wing

 

You see now, even with a well positioned defense, Florenzi has the chance to recieve the ball in space, and he has lots of choices: he can bomb forward for a cross (look at the runs being made on the opposite side of the pitch), che can stop and look for linkup with Under (who in the meantime will position himself higher up on the pitch - i will look into this), or he can look for Dzeko again

 

 

Here you see the pass we were anticipating. And in this video i will show you the whole move, where Florenzi was very intelligent to pick up a cross for a late runner, since nobody was in the box. In this instance Zaniolo found himself in acres of space, since we overloaded the right side of the pitch. He recieved the long ball and made a very good decision in my opinion, shooting from outside the box, even if the ball went over. It may not be a clear cut chance, but it's a very smart play, and could have been dangerous for Monaco

 

You have to excuse me for the video shaking, it's really terrible and annoying, but i don't know what's wrong with my uploads, i tried it so many times and always comes out like this. Though you can see very well the move, it shakes just before and after.

 

 

[Raymond85]

Updated second post with first official match analysis

[craigd84]

I like this. Can i ask have you tried using the Totti role that Zeman used in his last stint? the wide left Treq. I find the wide treqs dont seem as good as the central ones. But im tinkering.

[Raymond85]

10 minuti fa, craigd84 ha scritto:

I like this. Can i ask have you tried using the Totti role that Zeman used in his last stint? the wide left Treq. I find the wide treqs dont seem as good as the central ones. But im tinkering.

I am actualy going with his original football tactical system. Knowing how he is, i think he actualy would have preferred not having Totti in that team, and he might have been forced to find that solution. And to be fair, results were among his worse in that period. maybe not only his fault, but still.

About tinkering, i see how Pastore could fit that role perfectly, with his attribute set. I used a wide Trequartista in a possession tactic with Ajax, and Ziyech in that role was impressive.

[craigd84]

Yeah i guess so, he never really liked having to shoehorn Totti into his team but his talent combine with fan pressure i guess made him have to pick him.

Well in my current save I have an ageing Messi in my squad as a wide treq, but im not really seeing the results i see when central.

[Experienced Defender]

On 09/04/2019 at 16:22, Raymond85 said:

i'm seeing too many long balls when starting from the back after regaining the ball. I think the match engine won't allow being realistic here, as Zeman's squads never ever play the ball long

That's because you are playing on the highest possible mentality and highest possible tempo.

[Robson 07]

Good point above about mentality.  I'm not sure about 'more disciplined' either.  To me that's not doing any too flashy whilst also having some positional discipline.  That sort of goes against fluidity of movement in possession also which I think you're looking to achieve as you have roaming wingbacks and a complete forward.  They're not exactly disciplined roles.

[Raymond85]

10 ore fa, Experienced Defender ha scritto:

That's because you are playing on the highest possible mentality and highest possible tempo.

 

i think you are spot on with this, i will have to test a few things and see if it is a thing i can work with, or it will have to be a compromise to accept. Highest tempo and mentality is what this kind of football is all about, so i don't feel too happy with changing that.

 

 

10 ore fa, Robson 07 ha scritto:

Good point above about mentality.  I'm not sure about 'more disciplined' either.  To me that's not doing any too flashy whilst also having some positional discipline.  That sort of goes against fluidity of movement in possession also which I think you're looking to achieve as you have roaming wingbacks and a complete forward.  They're not exactly disciplined roles.

That is another thing that gave me a lot of thinking. I decided to go for it, because i think it helps making play feel a passing game, and work as a team rather than dribble or play itself into trouble. We don't want creative freedom except from forwards in dangerous areas. And this is another thing i'm keeping an eye on.

 

Zeman is a very complicated tactician to understand, he wants fluid play but also so much discipline (he was called the iron sergeant). He wants a quick high flow very attacking passing game, but you should never ever hoof the ball forward, just play out of defence (something i'm looking to add). He once said while giving a tactical lesson to young coaches that if you launch the ball forward, things just get complicated because chance is that you have to win the ball back, while you already have it. Everything is proactive, you're not defending but you're recovering the ball, is another example of his way of thinking football.

[Armistice]

This is very nice, I like how you don't compromise on things for the sake of it and stick to your game plan. Looking forward to more. 

[Raymond85]

7 minuti fa, Armistice ha scritto:

This is very nice, I like how you don't compromise on things for the sake of it and stick to your game plan. Looking forward to more. 

Thanks, glad you enjoy. There is a huge challenge here (and you'll see) when you actually get very good results, but are not so sure you've got the playing style spot on. Do you cave in to the temptation of letting those doubts go for the sake of the result? or do you still want to achieve perfection on your goal?

[Experienced Defender]

6 hours ago, Raymond85 said:

Highest tempo and mentality is what this kind of football is all about, so i don't feel too happy with changing that

I see what's your idea, but on higher mentalities tempo will inherently be higher, sometimes even when it's labelled as "low". If you watch Rashidi's videos on his Liquid 4123 system, you'll see that he plays on attacking and very attacking mentality with shorter/much shorter passing and low tempo, but the attacking play isn't slow by any means. Of course, his setup of roles and duties is notably different from yours, and he is using a lot of support duties which make his system very fluid, but the focus here is on the combination of (low) tempo and (short) passing in the context of high-risk mentality.

[Raymond85]

36 minuti fa, Experienced Defender ha scritto:

I see what's your idea, but on higher mentalities tempo will inherently be higher, sometimes even when it's labelled as "low". If you watch Rashidi's videos on his Liquid 4123 system, you'll see that he plays on attacking and very attacking mentality with shorter/much shorter passing and low tempo, but the attacking play isn't slow by any means. Of course, his setup of roles and duties is notably different from yours, and he is using a lot of support duties which make his system very fluid, but the focus here is on the combination of (low) tempo and (short) passing in the context of high-risk mentality.

That's a very good point you make, and i actually didn't think of it under this perspective. So that goes on the list of things to try and keep an eye on.

I actually am keeping the tactic as is for the first matches, so that i can get a feel for it and spot patterns that are going to be in different matches, before i start tinkering. Different perspectives always help though, i wouildn't have thought it this way hadn't you pointed it out, because i'm actually happy with possession even on high tempo with this mentality

[Sasha-1992]

Zeman and shorter passing? WTF ?) Zeman style is super super vertical football. I think it s should be more direct or  Route one

And right and left CM Imo  Mez(s) or Mez(A)