Guest Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Hello and good morning to Sports Interactive and to the rest of the forums. During my time of playing Football Manager and Championship Manager, and I've played since CM Italy back in 1993. If one would look at my steam library, they would find all the versions of Football Manager, and probably be shocked at exactly how many hours I've put into these games. - but I simply love these games, don't you? In the past, there have been so many helpful people around these forums that could help eachother, even in cases, Sports Interactive employees / administrators step in to clear something up. - and I hope this time, to END the many assumptions about HOW two-footedness works in Football Manager. Now, Football Manager has certainly come a LONG way since they first started out, and each iteration brings more and more reality to the 'game' and we simply cannot get enough! But there are aspects to the game, which easily gets misunderstood, even for people that have played the game for years on end, or even for people that also have an amateur, semi-pro or even pro football career in the real world. One of such bandits is the "Two-Footedness" I personally see a player being able to drible, tackle, pass and shoot successfully with both feet as someone that is somewhat rare and should potentially be able to suit more 'roles' and be a generally better player than someone who isnt adept with both feet. But within the game itself, this just doesnt seem like the case? I know a two-footed striker should have more options in front of goal, but how do be know? Becuase its logical, or because SI tell us so? - The answer is, because its logical! And then when you also factor in, that how good a player is with both feet, also limits his total potential attributewise, then surely, two-footedness MUST be good. But Sports Interactive as far as I can tell on the forums, has never, EVER been here to tell us this. So all we can do, is guess - but is that fair? Considering how much the 'Current Ability pricetag' that comes with two-footedness ability? I've tried to create my own personal tests over the years, but I can never come to any real conclusion, because there are so many factors to consider. Lets consider for posterity, that you have two strikers. Striker A, has poor two-footedness, but he has superb finishing (finishing, composure, decisions and technique) with his good foot - he rarely misses the target. Striker B, can use either foot, but he has average finishing (finishing, composure, decisions and technique) he doesnt always get the shot on target, but he can use both feet. I don't see the Match Engine giving the two-footed player any benefits in front of goal, in my tests (yes personal experience) Striker A always scores alot more than Striker B. Here are some questions for Sports Interactive, and anyone else that wants to comment on it. But please, we are all humans, and NO one outside Sports Interactive, knows the inner workings of the match engine. 1) - What are the 'direct' benefits to a player having good ability with both feet, to one not having good ability with both feet, considering how expensive two-footedness is. - And please, no 'logical' answers that you think is the correct answer. 2) - Does a player with 15+ ability on both feet have some invisible boost to his visible attributes, since they are generally lower than someone with poor two-footedness? 3) - Why can a left wing inside forward, with only good right foot ability, still cross as well as a left-footed winger on the left wing when he gets the chance? I am really hoping for some clarification into these questions from Sports Interactive, not direct answers as to how it works in the match engine - some secrets are best left alone. But at least some understanding for us average joes out there, that just dont understand the logic behind some of the things in this greatgame. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, mcswifty said: Lets consider for posterity, that you have two strikers. Striker A, has poor two-footedness, but he has superb finishing (finishing, composure, decisions and technique) with his good foot - he rarely misses the target. Striker B, can use either foot, but he has average finishing (finishing, composure, decisions and technique) he doesnt always get the shot on target, but he can use both feet. I don't see the Match Engine giving the two-footed player any benefits in front of goal, in my tests (yes personal experience) Striker A always scores alot more than Striker B. I think you choose a poor example to show the benefits of a two footed player. I would always take a one footed good finisher over a two footed average one. I can set up to try to make sure my striker gets most of this chances on his good foot. I cannot make the two footed striker score. Wingers are where you can start to point out the beauty of a two footed player. Let us imagine a player on the right wing. Either two footed, or right footed only. What is the difference? Well, the two footed player is going to automatically be more versatile and unpredictable. He can run down the wing and cross. He can cut inside and shoot. He can pass with either foot to any position. This is a significant advantage over a one footed player, who can only really do one of these things effectively (depending on the foot he is best with). So, to be, a two footed winger is absolutely better than a one footed winger. You can play him on either side of the pitch, as a winger or IF. That is such a huge advantage. He does not need a boost to any attributes (the footedness comes from CA anyway, so the more two footed, the less CA for attributes). This also relates to your third question. A player can cross wrong footed, but it will likely be a poor cross (I can kick with mu wrong foot, just not that well). You can probably see it as a decrease in the crossing attribute scaled by just how bad his second foot actually is. Wrong footed wingers are definitely a lot less effective that correct footed wingers. Two footed wingers can do anything you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I am sorry to point out a flaw with your 'winger situation' I can have right wing, inside forwards, with 20 for left foot, and 1 for right foot, give pin-point crosses as well as a right footed winger. So in theory, my wingers do not need to be in any way two-footed, and those players, can/will have more CA to use on attribute gain. - This is something that I've found true, in both FM2018 and FM2019 match engine. Furthermore, I can also succesfully ask a left wing, left footed winger, to play as an inside forward and to go for goal. The game will tell me that he cannot do that well - however, what I then see in the match engine, is the exact opposite. But all these tests, theories and logical guesses, which they basically are! Are only OUR interpretation, not Sports Interactive's - as they have yet to give us clear information on this subject! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Jack Joyce Posted January 10, 2019 SI Staff Share Posted January 10, 2019 41 minutes ago, mcswifty said: I am sorry to point out a flaw with your 'winger situation' I can have right wing, inside forwards, with 20 for left foot, and 1 for right foot, give pin-point crosses as well as a right footed winger. So in theory, my wingers do not need to be in any way two-footed, and those players, can/will have more CA to use on attribute gain. - This is something that I've found true, in both FM2018 and FM2019 match engine. Furthermore, I can also succesfully ask a left wing, left footed winger, to play as an inside forward and to go for goal. The game will tell me that he cannot do that well - however, what I then see in the match engine, is the exact opposite. But all these tests, theories and logical guesses, which they basically are! Are only OUR interpretation, not Sports Interactive's - as they have yet to give us clear information on this subject! You're making the assumption that because you've seen a player put in a pinpoint cross with his weak foot, that he's just as good with his weak foot as anyone else. I have an awful left foot but I'm sure if you gave me 30 attempts at crossing with it at least 1 of them will be good. It's about consistency. Remember that you're only seeing the highlights of matches, which will usually tend toward good attacking play rather than showing someone messing up a cross. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said: You're making the assumption that because you've seen a player put in a pinpoint cross with his weak foot, that he's just as good with his weak foot as anyone else. I have an awful left foot but I'm sure if you gave me 30 attempts at crossing with it at least 1 of them will be good. It's about consistency. Remember that you're only seeing the highlights of matches, which will usually tend toward good attacking play rather than showing someone messing up a cross. True. But when if you during a match, have 15-20 highlights, and have two players with completely different foot strength, perform to the same standard, then how are you to argue? Besides, are do not see the point, in game players and Sports Interactive staff arguing consistency of players, that will arguably never lead to any solution. Why not just help the people out that play their game, with simple information as to how it works. How is it any different explaining a visible attribute like 'Passing' and how it translates in the match engine, to explaining the same, about footedness? We could argue all week long, but I doubt that Sports Interactive have any interest in that - I for one do not. I simply ask for the information that the game creators give about alot of other things in the game - simple, concise - without explaining the inner workings. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Jack Joyce Posted January 10, 2019 SI Staff Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, mcswifty said: Why not just help the people out that play their game, with simple information as to how it works. How is it any different explaining a visible attribute like 'Passing' and how it translates in the match engine, to explaining the same, about footedness? We could argue all week long, but I doubt that Sports Interactive have any interest in that - I for one do not. I simply ask for the information that the game creators give about alot of other things in the game - simple, concise - without explaining the inner workings. The simple explanation is that two-footed players are more comfortable and proficient at using their 'weaker' foot, as you'd expect. If you don't believe that's the case then you'd best be starting a thread on the match engine bugs forum with PKM examples + comparison against one-footed players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Joyce said: The simple explanation is that two-footed players are more comfortable and proficient at using their 'weaker' foot, as you'd expect. If you don't believe that's the case then you'd best be starting a thread on the match engine bugs forum with PKM examples + comparison against one-footed players. So what you are telling me is, that players do not need to be any good with their weak foot if played correctly, and we can just ignore training their weak foot, and focus on players with poor weak foot strength, that have that much more ability points, to be able to focus on developing attributes instead. I know that we are all different, and interpret things differently, but that is how I interpret it - and with how I see it ingame highlights. Thank you Jack Joyce for trying to explain it to be, I am grateful for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Jack Joyce Posted January 10, 2019 SI Staff Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, mcswifty said: So what you are telling me is, that players do not need to be any good with their weak foot if played correctly, and we can just ignore training their weak foot, and focus on players with poor weak foot strength, that have that much more ability points, to be able to focus on developing attributes instead. I know that we are all different, and interpret things differently, but that is how I interpret it - and with how I see it ingame highlights. Thank you Jack Joyce for trying to explain it to be, I am grateful for that. I'd say there's no right or wrong way to go about that. It's more down to personal preference than anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Seb Wassell Posted January 10, 2019 SI Staff Share Posted January 10, 2019 To clear something up here - a player's weak foot does consume CA, but it is not "expensive". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said: To clear something up here - a player's weak foot does consume CA, but it is not "expensive". Depending on the positions that the player can play, weak foot can be either "inexpensive", or "rather expensive". And since Sports Interactive will not give out information to players, whether or not or how two-footedness improve a players 'game' in a match setting, then it becomes as Jack said - down to personal preference. Managers can see how a player with good 'passing' can improve his 'game' in match setting. Managers cannot see how a player with good two-footedness can improve his 'game' in a match setting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Seb Wassell Posted January 10, 2019 SI Staff Share Posted January 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, mcswifty said: Depending on the positions that the player can play, weak foot can be either "inexpensive", or "rather expensive". And since Sports Interactive will not give out information to players, whether or not or how two-footedness improve a players 'game' in a match setting, then it becomes as Jack said - down to personal preference. Managers can see how a player with good 'passing' can improve his 'game' in match setting. Managers cannot see how a player with good two-footedness can improve his 'game' in a match setting. My comment was only in reference to the CA difference between a highly rated weak foot and a lowly rated weak foot, not how this then manifests in the ME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said: My comment was only in reference to the CA difference between a highly rated weak foot and a lowly rated weak foot, not how this then manifests in the ME That is quite fair Seb. I really appriciate your input nonetheless. I have just been frustrated by Sports Interactive's attempts over the last couple years to avoid going indepth on the matter of footedness. Thank you both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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