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luka_

Away struggles with my 4-2-3-1

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Ok, so basically as the title of the thread says, I am having huge problems playing away from home in the league. It's 27 games into my 2nd season with Arsenal and I won only 4 away games, with two of those coming as a lucky 3-2 wins. I wasn't happy with a performance even though we won. It was the same bad football we've been producing the whole season.

I want to say that I won the league in my 1st season, and at the Emirates we are very good. I think I lost only one game since the start of the save when playing at home.

My sytem is this:

https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/5a0952e58dd5dd25d4d26ee3

TI: standard / fluid, play out of defence, prevent gk distributing, roam from postitons, be more expressive, work ball into box, look for overlap

No player instructions.

My IF, and my AP will often have bad ratings. I've tried to put them on attack duty, or switch AP with AM..but no difference.

I don't know why are we playing lukewarm football at best. Even my home games, I don't really like how we play even though we are winning. It is also true that the season has been riddled by injuries, almost no in form players other than Lucas Moura at right wing and Lacazette (who missed 5 months of season and is now again inured for 6 weeks). So I don't know if it is the system or just the fact players are not in form at all.

Also ,I did try playing control,counter...I do change things when I feel the change is needed but in general I am not happy how things are looking and I am out of ideas as to what would be the reason for our ****** performances.

Input is very much needed. :)

 

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My take is playing away , teams are more likely to attack , then when playing at home. You don't have the defensive setup to deal with this. You need three defend duties  across CD/FB/DM/CM. 

What kind of goals are being scored against you? How is the defensive line setup?  You mentioned your attack problems, but haven't mentioned defensive issues.

17 minutes ago, luka_ said:

My IF, and my AP will often have bad ratings. I've tried to put them on attack duty, or switch AP with AM..but no difference.

Guessing here since there are no match stats, the AP is not seeing enough of the ball , or not getting good passing options. Are the left IF /FB getting overwhelmed by opposition wide players ?

I suspect also with play out of defense+no CM, its possible you are not getting the ball into opposition third enough.

Edited by fmnatic

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Maybe consider dropping a few TIs. You are already playing a fluid mentality, is there a need for the more expressive TI? Work ball into box reduces crosses but you are playing with a winger who is going to cross first and foremost. Lastly, look for overlap is to ask both your fullbacks to overlap. With your 2 DMs also pushing up, is there enough cover for your defence?

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But the winger is getting enough crosses even with work ball into box instruction. I did remove more expressive TI but it didn't make any notable difference. Also I'm using segundo volante on attack duty, isn't his job to take the ball and bring it to attack. And advanced playmaker in AM position is dropping deep anyway so bringing the ball into final third shouldn't be a problem. 

Sometimes I remove overlap instruction, but then I'm even more impotent in attack. And finally, standard is just mentality I start the match. Often I will go more aggressive but I just can not make enough chances when playing away. even against mediocre teams. I find it easier to play away against top tems, I can go counter and pass to space and I can be quite dangerous. But against a team like Watford I don't create enough, Watford also doesn't create much, often it's like 5 shots me, 4 long shots Watford at half time..and then I concede some stupid goal from a counter or a set piece and then I go overload with maximum aggression and get an equilizer and create chances..also sometimes I concede the second goal and it's game over.

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17 minutes ago, luka_ said:

 I'm using segundo volante on attack duty, isn't his job to take the ball and bring it to attack. And advanced playmaker in AM position is dropping deep anyway so bringing the ball into final third shouldn't be a problem. 

The segundo description says part of a midfield pair,best paired with anchor man. Not sure of effectiveness when paired with a DM(S). 

If you have the heat map from the watford map, that should be interesting.

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Without specific issues its hard to suggest specific changes.  Why do the AP/IF have low ratings?  When they get the ball what options to they have?  Do they pick the option you want them to?

Just looking at the tactic my personal preferences would be to not use Look For Overlap.  You have a natural overlap on the left flank so not really needed.  On the right you have a VOL-A + W-A, do you really want the FB-S being more aggressive as well with no defend duty or Hold Position in midfield?  I think you've got a bit of Wenger in you :lol:.  Plus this instruction encourages hold up play by the wide players, but away from home you might get a bit more space to attack quickly, though you are using Fluid so encouraging them to get involved in build up rather than staying higher.

Second thing i'm looking at is the forward.  You have a lot of players looking to play in the midfield / AM area, the IF + AP are there already, then the CF-S will drop into that same area plus the DM-S and VOL-A push up into it.  All those support duties in the same area and Fluid team shape might get a lot of close support but could cause a lack of options/space.  I'd be tempted to use a CF-A to threaten in behind defences and make space in the AM area.  CF requires a very smart forward to pick the right option so if he's not in the right positions it might be more consistent to use a simpler role, maybe DLF/AF.

 

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So maybe I will try then to put DM/s as DM/D, make the forward CF/A or AF/A and remove overlap. Maybe also I should play segundo volante as support, that should make my two mids defensively more solid.

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1 hour ago, luka_ said:

So maybe I will try then to put DM/s as DM/D, make the forward CF/A or AF/A and remove overlap. Maybe also I should play segundo volante as support, that should make my two mids defensively more solid.

I'd make gradual changes and see if it has the effect expected and then decide if more changes are needed.

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The space you exploit home and away will most likely be different, as well as the time you have on the ball, as well as the numbers and amount of attacking you face. This should influence your playstyle, role selection, and certain ti's such as overlap, roaming, expressiveness, etc.

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OK, so I made a few changes.

Now it looks like this:

https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/5a0a92408dd5dd25d4d26fc5

TI: Control/flexible - short passes,close down more,work ball into box,play wide

TI(away games): standard/flexible - short passes,close down more,work ball into box, play fairly wide

Also when away, right full back has FB/D role.

Played five games and won all five, 23 goals scored and 3 goals against and the quality of football on display is very impressive.

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2 hours ago, luka_ said:

...

Played five games and won all five, 23 goals scored and 3 goals against and the quality of football on display is very impressive.

:thup: Good stuff.  A few more changes than I was thinking, the AP-S to AM-A one is interesting, i'm guessing the IF-S + RPM-S play a big part in transitioning the ball.  Though if you have Ozil still I think he has Drop Deep To Collect Ball so could still be helping deeper before getting into AM-A positions?

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1 hour ago, summatsupeer said:

:thup: Good stuff.  A few more changes than I was thinking, the AP-S to AM-A one is interesting, i'm guessing the IF-S + RPM-S play a big part in transitioning the ball.  Though if you have Ozil still I think he has Drop Deep To Collect Ball so could still be helping deeper before getting into AM-A positions?

Ozil played only one of this five games and scored two goals. He got injured though..

Main reason was that AP or AM/S drop too deep for my taste and therfore leave front three a bit isolated. And RMP is doing fine with bringing the ball up to the final third. And with AM/A and DLF/S I have some more movement upfront. 

Anyway, we will see in the upcoming matches...Man City, Chelsea, Barcelona, ManUtd, Barcelona, Everton. :D

Edited by luka_

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