maladu25 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Hey guys, I'd like some advice on my Liverpool 4-4-2 diamond tactic. Let me explain, after winning the Premier League on my first year in charge with a 4-3-3 based on high intensity press, overlapping wing backs and a quick build-up from the back with high-intensity short passes about the same instructions that you can see below). But summer arrived, with its surprises, the biggest one was a 120 million euros fee for Coutinho, which was good on the previous season but not as much as expected, with 7 goals and 7 assists in 32 premier league games. I couldn't refuse it, but I lost one of my key players. I have to say that Mane (which was playing a classic winger role) was out for injury for about 8 months, so my 2 wingers where out. As I wanted some change I tried a strikerless 4-4-2 that you can see below, inspired from a tactic I saw on the internet, but I changed some roles and instructions. I recruited Alli and Van Dijk for the 1st team. Don't pay attention to the front line, it's usually Firmino on the left, Alli on the right and Lallana in the middle. I think roles haven't the same abreviations than in French so a quick recap: GK-D WB-S CB-D CB-D WB-S Regista-S BWM-S B2B-S SS-A AM-S SS-A I change the regista for a BWM-S and the BWM for a DLP-S when playing against a team having an MOC. And I have those team instructions, I hope you can understand even if it's in French... But after some terrific games in pre-season, I'm struggling since the beginning of the championship. I know teams need time to get used to tactics but they are perfectly used to it and they struggle a lot. Could you tell me what you think about it? Is it well balanced? I still struggle a lot to create my own tactics, but I keep reading and learning in order to improve. Any comment is welcome, thanks! I've been reading articles on these forums for so long, I'm very happy to be a part of it now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBarbaric Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 you will probably need some different shape against teams that play with a DM or two in front of the back line. Or teams that like to clogg the center of the pitch. Did West Ham or Arsenal use someone as a DM? But in large part you should do well with 6 players in the middle of the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maladu25 Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 Hey, thanks for the answer, West ham was in a 4231, with no real DM and United was in a 433 with Illaramendi as a DM but when looking at the global positions during the game he's playing on the same line than the 2 others midfielders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alinp Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 From looking at your set up, I'm not sure what type of football you want to play as (in my opinion) you have some contradictions e.g. you're playing Control/Fluid, which in itself is reasonably attacking, and you have a TI increasing tempo, yet you then go on to instruct shorter passing, play out of defence and work ball into box. There's nothing stopping you doing this, but it doesn't seem logical to me. The formation you have is ideal for vertical football, with quick transitions and playing your nominal strikers into the space behind your oppositions defence - I'm not convinced your instructions compliment this. Initially, I'd just simplify it and see what happens with as you remove/add instructions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maladu25 Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 What I wanted to have was a short and quick circulation of the ball, but you're right there are some contradictions, I'll remove some of my TI and see what happens. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Not 100% on how those roles translate into English. I'd guess the same as I'm about to advise. This formation - exactly how you show it - has been my most successful in FM17. I tend to play Shadow Striker - Enganche - Shadow Striker as my front three... TIs to pass into space, quick players as the Shadow Strikers. Both central midfielders on CM s A DM D or Anchor Man Basic back 4 - full backs on support central defenders on defend. Standard, Flexible Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maladu25 Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 Yeah sorry what's called 9 1/2 in french is the shadow striker, I edited it. So you prefer the enganche role for the MOC, I guess the result is a better link with the CMs because of the enganche is more static and less attacking minded, and I see your tactic is much simpler than mine with DM and MCs, I'm maybe trying to over complicate things... Are your full backs going forward a bit when the team's on the ball? Cuz I'm afraid of them staying deep and being useless when the team's attacking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PonjaConRulos Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 I'm playing with the same formation, but different roles and instructions. I think you want to overload the centre of the pitch, but I don't use a support role in the DM and I don't recommend you to use it because you're restricting the space. You already have 5 players there and you're playing Control Fluid, so it must be overcrowded. If you want to have a playmaker there, you could use a DLP (D). It could be useful to attract the pressure and find space behind the midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maladu25 Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 @PonjaConRulos You're right, I didn't think about that. A regista is probably too agressive. So I changed a few things in my tactic, following your recommendations. So I've now been playing with : SS-A AP-S SS-A B2B-S CM-S DLP-D FB-A CB-D CB-D FB-A Using those instructions: Higher tempo and shorter passing (to have that quick circulation of the ball) Closing down more Playing the offside trap Prevent short GK distribution Play out of defense (not to kick the ball every time we have a bit of pressure) Exploit the middle (I don't know if it's redundant with that tactic...) Pass into space (makes good use of my shadow strikers moves) And the results have been very interesting, after trying it in a friendly during the international break (a 3-2 win against celtic with only 2 first team players on the pitch), I had a big game against Arsenal 2nd while I was 11th, at home, and I needed a win. You can see below that it worked out very well and I completely dominated the game despite putting the ball into the net only once. After that, my first ever champions league game with Liverpool, and it wasn't an easy one, receiving Emery's Real Madrid. Even if this game was more balanced, the result was a fantastic 4-0 win for the Reds, with Coric's first goal for the club, and my 2 MCs scoring. So I can say the changes made have had a great result this far, but I'll need to see with more games to have a more complete point of view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherifdinn_ Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Immediately I saw this midfield I knew what was wrong, it's way too unbalanced nd open. All three men basically just hoard the ball when out of possession, there should be at least one player preferably at the base that holds his position. And it just dosent stop there, when using a 442 diamond system that obvious weakness is the fact the fact that you'll tend to get outnumbered out wide, so how do you deal with this, you simply show the opposition away frim the flanks example for a right sides winger you should set opposition instructions to show him to his left foot it order to force him to pass the ball to the center where not of your players are located at making it easier for you to win the ball back. For your player roles, the defense is okay, maybe you may have t switch you the attack, I read an article that aimed at replicating Brendan Rogers' Liverpool 2013/14 side where they used raumdueters as wide poachers and an engache to be the prime creator. The 442 diamond is a very unique system nd needs proper management for one to succeed using the system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy8chimp Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 On 20/10/2017 at 14:04, maladu25 said: Yeah sorry what's called 9 1/2 in french is the shadow striker, I edited it. So you prefer the enganche role for the MOC, I guess the result is a better link with the CMs because of the enganche is more static and less attacking minded, and I see your tactic is much simpler than mine with DM and MCs, I'm maybe trying to over complicate things... Are your full backs going forward a bit when the team's on the ball? Cuz I'm afraid of them staying deep and being useless when the team's attacking. The full backs are the only guys I change during a game. If I can't break a team down, I switch the to attack duty. Then they go outside the shadow strikers and stretch the defence. The enganche is untouchable and with 'pass into space' the shadow strikers make good runs and he picks them out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maladu25 Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Thanks for the answers guys, I gave up on that 442 diamond and short after I gave up on that save, I was missing that «thing» which keep you interested on a save! I also think selling Coutinho wasn't a good Idea at all, eventhough he wasn't as decisive as I wanted he was a key player, and he was loved by supporters! I'll keep all your advices in mind! I like the way you think about how to counter tactic weaknesses @sherifdinn_ ! Thanks for your answer too @westy8chimp ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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