The Magnificent Four - Strikerless crying havoc

[Barbosa04]

Other tactics

• Guardians - Creating defensive fortitude
• Suicide Squad - Breaking scoring records

____________

• Han Solo - Asymmetric strikes back

 

 

 

      Strikerless formations are a curious case in this year’s fm. They are trendy, efficient and surprisingly balanced, so easy to be picked up by fm newbie and become an instant favorite.

Shadow strikers are universal Constanta in every variation you encounter with strikerless systems at the moment, so it became sort of cliché to pick SS role when coming up with own system.

To leave my own stamp in strikerless ecosystem, I won’t pick this deadly efficient Shadow striker role, but put another rather interesting role on a main stage.

And that will be Raumdeuter.  The rest of the team has to be set-up to bring the most and best out of raumdeuters (from now on – Raum.).

 

Early results

 

Routine league games

 

 

Disclaimer ( This isn't a plug and play tactic. As in my previous systems, its success relies on how well you stacked the specialist positions in these tactics). And please do not ask for downloadable file. If you are interested to try it yourself please invest your 10 min. and read the next post where all the relevant info is provided to successfully recreate it.

[Barbosa04]

PART 2 - The system revealed

 

In this strikerless formation raum.s are expected to be the main striking force. They are regarded as wide strikers and to maximize their output the team will be set-up to better accommodate their scoring instincts.

To ensure raum.s blossom in this system, the will be set free to be fully invested in their role, so highly structured shape will be chosen to ensure that raum.s will concentrate on fulfilling their specific role.

To balance things out, having strong base in the middle that will dominate possession against any opposition will be a secondary target of this system.

Ok. Let’s start from the goalkeeper

Regular one. As I always prefer building up from defense, I will let him kickstart play in considerate safe manner. No need to lump it forward and put your fate in the hands of a chance.

So PI for Gk – slow pace down, less risky passes, roll it out, to “sweeper”.

 

Defense

It might seem counter-intuitive, as playing deep would better suit for my raum.s, as they thrive when given space. But in my league, Anderlecht already stamped its authority and almost every other team play deep against us, with FBs on defend duty.

So, with this defensive configuration coupled with high D-line I will be able to increase my midfield presence which will help to achieve my secondary target – dominating possession.

Triangular shape will also help with ball progression as each next ball receiver is close and situated further forward. This scheme will also be prominent in the rest of the tactic. DCs in certain transitions mimicking DMCs will engage opposition farther from goal, decreasing even long shots.

This is still a high-risk playing style, but the benefits I believe are well worth it.

 

PI for defenders “mark tighter”, “pass shorter”.

 

Midfield

 

IWBs will defend as regular WBs/FBs close to your box. When in possession they will move centrally to support the solitary DLP.

 

Look how centrally are IWBs situated. That’s the beauty of having only one recognized CM, so IWBs join and form a proper 3man midfield. In most transitions they will act like CM(s), and yet occasionally as CM(a), making runs into the box.

This configuration makes the keeping the ball and dominating the play easy-peasy.

In the long save, it would be wise to look into young natural DMC strata players, as they would be an ideal candidate to be retrained into IWBs. A DMC with decent defensive attributes coupled with decent speed will be a best fit, as IWBs will play in the CM position for long periods requiring CMs natural passing skills.

PIs for IWB –“mark tighter”, “shoot less often”

PPM for DLP – “tries killer ball often”, “shoot less often”.

Attack

 

As I want the raum.s to get all the limelight, strikers are omitted from this system. So this way most of the through balls will be directed onto the path of raum.s. As I want the best servicemen to be close to raum.s, I need creators at the center. They will be in the best position to consistently feed clever balls into the wide areas.

So playmakers in AMC strata. Trequartista is too unpredictable in choosing its position. And I’m looking into playing very structured, and controlled football. So AP(s) are the golden screws of this system that makes everything click. The additional good thing of AP(s) that they receive most passes to the feet. So they won’t be moving into channels and trying to beat the defender for a through ball. Their job is to be the main creators and nothing more. Almost nothing more. They may get into the box when cross is being delivered.

Here Raum.s are kind of wide poachers. They will consistently probe to beat the wide defender for a diagonal through ball. So they need a good anticipation and off the ball attributes. And SPEED IS EVERYTHING for this position. A lot of situations will be decided by the speed of contestants.

As Raum.s will find themselves to be shooting from quite uncomfortable angles a lot of times, a natural striker retrained into raum.s role may bring the best results. But, I repeat speed would be the most important thing to lookout in raum.s.

 

PIs for AP –“shoot less often” PPM – “tries killer ball often”

PIs for Raums – “shoot less often”. As they enter the box from tight angles, I would prefer them to consider passing instead of shooting if the former is a better option.

PPM for Raum.s – “move into channel”, “play one-two”. Optional if they have dribbling skills and speed – “knock ball past opponent”, “dribble past the flank”, “run with ball more often”.

 

The whole system

 

The flat four offensive players have the benefit of 442-like formations, when flat bank of 4 can efficiently press the opposition. As my defenders push the D-line, the overall press will be relentless.

 

You may see that in this system despite having 4 wide players, the play doesn’t prioritize making the crosses. IWBs are automatically discouraged from  them. The same thing with Raums. But anyway they will appear in that kind of situations frequently, so the crosses will be inevitable. And in this system crosses become very effective.

 

Team Instructions

    

 

When I’m confident in my team’s strength I pick the first one with structured shape.

When my team is tipped to lose I pick the other with fluid shape. As in tough European matches the results are more important, I would prefer my team to act like one unit, so offensive players would contribute more into defensive play. And that comes with fluid mentality.

 

Closing down – much more. I envision high pressing for this system, and its layout makes it possible.

Width – narrow. I don’t like how sometimes wide defenders pick up their positions in defensive situations. Here you can see that my IWB needlessly staying wide, when a clear danger in opposition winger is staying narrower.

 

Even if my narrow system harms my attacking potential, I will prefer to be tight at the back. So narrow it goes.

Pass into space – As AP playmakers attract ball, I’m hoping they will receive the safe passes and be the ones who are making the risky passes to raum.s. As Raum.s operate in wide areas with space to run into, so this TI should better unlock their potential.

 

Work into the box – As I have many players who are acting like central CMs (including IWBs), I don’t want to see many long shots. This TI may slow down the tempo a bit, but APs and the rest will be more encouraged to pick a pass to raum.s – my master strikers.

 

Here are the possession stats

 

Average position

 

 

I believe I have covered the most parts. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[Barbosa04]

Part 3 Champions League Group stage

The tactic to truly prove its worth, it has to pass the test of European journey. This time I don’t have high hopes of reaching latter stages, as my overall squad quality regressed considerably compared to last season. If you followed me playing Suicide Squad tactic last season, you know that I had niggling problem with squad harmony, which culminated into massive mutiny at the end of last season, just before the Champions League final. It didn’t prevent us winning the final assuredly, but all the credit would go to undefeatable tactic.

This time I can’t rest on superior tactic, and squad harmony issues should finally be addressed. So off goes my best defender, midfielder and on loan goes my team’s best player to clear his mind. I took a gamble with another two, hoping I would eventually turn their heads around with better salary offer.

The replacements didn’t turn out to be successful. Brazilian defender named Pele, while having adequate defending skills, had only 9 for passing. I didn’t expect that such figures would result in 55%pass accuracy in some games. As I value building-up from defense, I couldn’t have such liability around my team. So he becomes my last choice backup, although initially bought to replace my best defender.

As I was short in creators for my AP role, I had to make new purchases. The one I bought, on whom I placed high hopes, had a massive laugh by getting 7-month long injury. Another had 4-month injury. And the transfer window was closed by that time. So in a lot of games I had to play my natural striker retrained into AMC position. While they were adequate, they didn’t fit at all into creators role.

It worth noting that Belgian league requirement places restrictive “6 Belgian based players in a match day squad” rule. As I’m making drastic changes to tactics every season, I couldn’t comply with rules, if I just bought whoever I want for the new positions. I had to settle by buying my 2 former players for IWB position who were trained in my academy. One was injury prone, another one whom I sold for 8 mill. I had to rebuy for 29 mil to boost my homegrown player count.

My wingers from my previous tactic had to adapt to playing raum.s. Although they are very good, but not ideal for raum. role. My strikers became backup players for AMC position. So far from ideal.

 

 

As I put 2 systems with contrasting shapes to be put on tactic slots ( one highly structured, another very fluid) – this must have made hard for players to get used to it. Only in late march, the team fully got familiar with chosen tactics. Wow, it took almost a whole  season to adapt.

 

 

And here is my best team

 

 

You can see that I have an excellent goalkeeper and central midfielder. The winger adapted to play raum. role getting high ratings as he’s getting a lot assists also. In this system, there a lot of goals where one raum. bursts into penalty box and delivers fast low cross, where another quick raum. meets it for a tap-in.

Overall, it’s a strong team for my league, but off the pace with European giants. Despite consistently excelling in Champions League in previous seasons, starting strongly in the league this season, and beating ManCity in a group game, despite all that bookmakers predicted I would lose against Sporting Lisbon. Yeah, AI this much rates my team’s quality for this year.

 

Ok, now to actual games.

Yes, we conceded twice in every game against ManCity. But their attacking play ensured my raum.s getting space behind their FBs. So outscoring and having more chances was repeating trend in every game.

 

Here you can see in the red box the passing accuracy of my defense. The aforementioned Pele, and opposition press results in poor rates. Ideally I aim for 80+%.

 

Teams with attacking FBs greatly increases my team's rate of successful through balls to raums. Look how many key passes produced in a single game.

 

The group results

 

Need to improve defensively. Hopefully by the time knockout stages arrives, my team will be much more adapted to play this brand of football, and although getting to the final is a long shot, but being competitive against any opponent is quite achievable.

 

 

[Barbosa04]

Part 4 Domestic league results

1st phase of Belgian league is over. It has stopped being competitive long ago, and matches feel like friendly training games, while the whole season is a long formal procession to the title. Apart from 2-3 teams who are courageous enough to attack, most teams play very deep defensive football. But why would I complain?

This time I had a chance to try playing highly structured shape – the idea that I long have been entertaining but too unsure to try out. As you know, highly structured directs players to concentrate on their role they are chosen to, thus while it may unlock the full potential of some players it may hurt the overall teamwork, as players are divided into blocks, carrying out restrictive roles, and not participating in transitions out of their competency. In plain words, defenders defend, creators create, attacker score. Well, in reality it didn’t turn out that way. Not on the scale I was expecting. I didn’t see/spot massive differences between highly structured and very fluid shapes as you would normally expect from such contrasting shapes. The defensive players were still making runs occasionally into opposition box, while central offensive players were excellently shielding the defense by tracking back close to our box. So why would I complain?

In this system I was looking to maximize the attacking efficiency of raum.s by delegating to them very little defensive responsibility, so that they could concentrate their play fully on exploiting the space that might occur when opposition FB wanders away. While raum.s press opposition in their half, they become not so eager to help out when opposition crosses the halfway line. So it’s a double-edge sword. While raum.s offer little defensive input they will take advantage of their positioning and be the excellent choice for a pass during a counter attack. To offset them being defensive liability, it’s imperative to have play focused on possession as it greatly removes the possible weaknesses of this system. So midfield overload comes into play. Additional benefit of highly structured is that APs are fully concentrated on trying to pick a clever ball into raum.’s running path. So I don't have reasons to comlain, right?

Here is my raum.s goal/assists return for a season.

You can see that the highest average rating for my best player topped 8.5. He scored on average a goal every match plus almost an assist every match. Incredible. If you add goals and assists -  4 of 5 raum.s had direct influence to goals more times than they started the match. In sum raum.s scored 78 and had assists in 67. Wooffff. Not bad for a whole season from  wide players. Their shooting accuracy is also worth noting, considering they usually shoot from tighter angles. PI “shoot less often” might have influenced that. No complaints. Now surely.

 

And now the league results

[Barbosa04]

PART 5 UCL knock-out stages

Now the hard part is on. There is little margin for error. Just a small sequence of unfortunate footballing passage may decide the match and kick us out of knock-out stages and give us bittersweet feeling considering total domestic dominance enjoyed with this tactic. Luckily, the draw was kind for us for the first two opponents, and that was a welcome change of luck compared to the lot we faced in previous season.

1st knockout stage

 

After winning the first tie, it’s mind boggling that Fenerbahce never came out of its defensive shape in the return game to try to reverse the scoreline. That must be the most anambitious opponent I have ever faced in european games, magnified by the fact that they mastered 0 shots on goal for the whole game.

In the quarter finals, SLB from Portugal didn’t turn out to be competitive either despite showing more attacking intent. In the first match at home, the tie was already effectively decided.

 

Surprisingly despite their defense/midfield positioning looking good on paper, it didn’t connect very well. Poor passing attributes, nerves, our pressing or combination of all resulted in our successful pressing and ultimately comfortable win.

The second leg was just a formality. It is nice to know that we are yet to concede a goal in knockout stages.

 

Well, it has to end at some point, right? Why not make it in disastrous manner. In the semi-final, at home match, inside first 2 minutes of the game. And the culprit is the same guy who produced a similar incident in previous year’s semi-final. Well, at least he is consistent of the timing of his brain freezes.

 

What a way to start a game against Barcelona. Good thing, for the reminder of the game, they threatened no more with any meaningful attacks. On the other hand, our team was rampant.

 

For the return leg, we had major problems with unavailable players. Both AP creators were injured, so strikers were placed into AMC strata. One raum. was returning from injury, and 2nd best raum was unavailable. So my whole offensive bunch was disjointed and ineffective. Also I forgot to remove the attacking match preparation, when it’s obvious that on away matches the opponent gets a boost to motivation/possibly attributes, so it would be wiser to get defensive.

 

It was a close match. While we had better chances, they were clinical in taking their chances. It must the first match in 60+matches sequence, where the opponent was a match to us statistically.

To the final we go.

 

Another close match, and this time us being the clinical one. Both teams pressed relentlessly which reflected by defense passing accuracy.

 

 

Overall, I’m super happy of the football produced by this system. Special note deserves the IWB role. He does so much, covering vast majority of the pitch, it starts to seem it’s too overpowering role. He defends the wide area, he transforms into central midfielder and gets involved in the magic of tiki-taka and he offers another attacking option from the middle. In the long save I would definitely look to nurture a proper combative DM player into IWB role.

Regarding Raum.s, they must the hardest role to find players to fit in. To get the best efficiency from him, he must possess natural wingers speed, crossing, dribbling skills and natural poacher-striker’s anticipation, off the ball, finishing skills. Even when opposition is sitting deep, and constricting raum.s running space – all he has to do is beat/dribble past the wide defender to suddenly raise the danger level in the opposition box.

...

...

This year’s fm journey for me is over. I had great time experimenting in it, and to keep my interest for the game I need to have a lengthy break from it. Hopefully next fm installment will include some additions to tactical side, so we could look into new ways to design systems. I will grab next fm on discount later next year, so I may reappear in the summer months on these forums. Peace.

 

[Barbosa04]

Reserved

[craigd84]

@Barbosa04

 

I am currently trying a 433 with an Treq and two Raumdueters...however im thinking the Eganche will be better suited due to his limited roaming.

My defensive stability will mostly be strongest through the middle, especially as the middle cm will be set to defend and hold position and the other two will be set to Support.

 

As for the Raumdueters PPM's im toying with the idea of using wingers who have hugs the line ppm to see if they stay wider for longer to almost delay their run.

[Barbosa04]

8 hours ago, craigd84 said:

@Barbosa04

 

I am currently trying a 433 with an Treq and two Raumdueters...however im thinking the Eganche will be better suited due to his limited roaming.

My defensive stability will mostly be strongest through the middle, especially as the middle cm will be set to defend and hold position and the other two will be set to Support.

As for the Raumdueters PPM's im toying with the idea of using wingers who have hugs the line ppm to see if they stay wider for longer to almost delay their run.

Treq. and Enganche are quite interesting roles, but in my system it would be an overkill. Raum.s are very attack minded and are not inclined to do defending/pressing. Treq. and En. being in the same mould of giving little regard to defending, I need to balance the system. And treq. also fashions chances for himself, where I strongly emphasize in my system that raum.s to be getting the end products. Enganche is too static for my liking, and in my league opposition usually fields 2 DMCs, so I’m afraid En. wouldn’t be that effective.

As for giving Raum.s a “hugs the line” PPM, don’t you think it will make them less effective scorer? I mean, they already enter the box from tight angles, and need finishing ability to make the most of that chance. If your Raum. hugs the line, the diagonal through balls to him would resemble a pass to a winger. So if Raum. receives the ball and decides to enter the box, he would be at even worse angle to shoot the ball.

But that’s just my thinking. I may be wrong.

6 hours ago, Analog said:

I guess with the popularity of Guido's blog growing, strikerless has become more popular this year, but strikerless has definitely been effective in the past five iterations of FM at least. 

Yes I stumbled upon his site this year, and find his writings compelling. So basically he gave me an inspiration to try out my own version of strikerless.

[Barbosa04]

2^nd post of the thread is updated

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Here is the team goal building up from a keeper. Look how centrally IWBs are situated.

 

 

[Armistice]

So IWBs will still act like IWBs when using Raums? I'm asking because Rashidi said IWBs will act like WBs when there is no width provided.

[Barbosa04]

Just now, nightwalker22 said:

So IWBs will still act like IWBs when using Raums? I'm asking because Rashidi said IWBs will act like WBs when there is no width provided.

Yes. And not only Raum.s. Any wide player in front of IWB will make him move more centrally. In the absence of wide player, the IWB will remain mostly wide.

[jc577]

Alex Ferguson once said that strikers are most effective when starting from wide positions and coming in centrally, as opposed to moving into the channels from a central position - I tried to create a system that embodied this but couldn't quite make it work but - brilliant work once again, looking forward to more analysis. 

[craigd84]

On 7/15/2017 at 03:01, Barbosa04 said:

Treq. and Enganche are quite interesting roles, but in my system it would be an overkill. Raum.s are very attack minded and are not inclined to do defending/pressing. Treq. and En. being in the same mould of giving little regard to defending, I need to balance the system. And treq. also fashions chances for himself, where I strongly emphasize in my system that raum.s to be getting the end products. Enganche is too static for my liking, and in my league opposition usually fields 2 DMCs, so I’m afraid En. wouldn’t be that effective.

As for giving Raum.s a “hugs the line” PPM, don’t you think it will make them less effective scorer? I mean, they already enter the box from tight angles, and need finishing ability to make the most of that chance. If your Raum. hugs the line, the diagonal through balls to him would resemble a pass to a winger. So if Raum. receives the ball and decides to enter the box, he would be at even worse angle to shoot the ball.

But that’s just my thinking. I may be wrong.

Yes I stumbled upon his site this year, and find his writings compelling. So basically he gave me an inspiration to try out my own version of strikerless.

I need to test the hugs the line ppm. From what i have read on another post that ppm delays the moving inside action. 

I think you are right about the Treq, but the Enganche looked ok, i will try and AP(S) tonight and see then.

 

@Analog i too think the CM role offers a great attacking outlet and gets loads of chances, Davy klaasen is amazing in this role regularly getting 15+ goals a season.

[Barbosa04]

3rd post of the thread is updated

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The importance of speed for raum.s cannot be overstated.

 

[Barbosa04]

4th post of the thread is updated

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Did I mention that raumdeuters are great at taking advantage of advanced FBs? Well, don't believe me, check for yourself

 

[WhyMe]

Out of curiosity, your threads tend to leave out player instructions and I find this one of the more interesting aspects of a tactical system as it tell you which aspects of the roles you are trying to exaggerate and which you are trying to reduce.  You mentioned the shoot less instruction on the Raums in your last post.  Are there any others?  Any for any other players?

[Barbosa04]

@WhyMe You may have missed them. PIs are right there in the 2nd post of this thread.  But there are not many.

Every role I pick for the position already comes with a package of built-in PIs. If they are already doing exactly what I’m expecting from them, then there is no need to overcomplicate their role. There is intricate connection between players, and in this particular system roles that are chosen are excelling in their default configuration. You may check out my PPM preference for some players in that post.

[WhyMe]

16 minutes ago, Barbosa04 said:

@WhyMe You may have missed them. PIs are right there in the 2nd post of this thread.  But there are not many.

Every role I pick for the position already comes with a package of built-in PIs. If they are already doing exactly what I’m expecting from them, then there is no need to overcomplicate their role. There is intricate connection between players, and in this particular system roles that are chosen are excelling in their default configuration. You may check out my PPM preference for some players in that post.

My apologies, I had indeed missed them.  *goes to check your other threads for PIs too as it appears I am half blind

[duca015]

I tried something similar against much (much!!!) better opposition as way to get something out of game. I fielded in 4-2-4-0, and then, during game, I changed a lot back four, moving FB-s to WB position, at one period of time, I played even with one CB, two HB-s, REG and two WB-s, and variation of the this, all as reactions to what was going on on field. I should mention that I played watching full game (it was really important game  )  

Anyway, my front 4 were RMD, ENG, SS, INF -sup... During game, I changed sometimes INF as WTM-sup (once again, as reaction to things happening on field).  I gotta tell you, it was blast. I was leading 2-0, then 3-1, then 4-1... But then one of my players made penalty (stupid one if I may add), got himself out of game with red card, and everything just fell apart.

But front 4 + Regista, which I kept whole game, basically destroyed opponent and they were really lucky not to concede more then 4 goals by the time I stayed with only 10 players on field.  My opponent fielded in 4-2-3-1, but after 20-minutes, he moved to 4-2-2-2 with wingers, as he could not break me. At one point, these front 4 were forcing opponent to leave all 4 defenders at back + sitting MC to cover in front of them, which greatly reduced pressure on my defense.

I get what you want to achieve with two RMD-s in team, but trust me, it is much better if you shuffle it a bit, and make it little bit more diverse. For example, SS and RMD who are pushing forward can create space for ENG and INF to exploit behind them. 

[craigd84]

im finding my raumdueter's dont run towards goal often. They seem to get the ball and run wide...  im using standard mentality so i cant imagine my team are set too attackingly.

[duca015]

That depends on player you are using, as well as on which role you use for strikers. If you use left legged player on left side, he will prefer to run wide. If you use some static role on striker (poacher, TM for example), there will be only space out on wide. But if you are using striker which runs into channels, like Treq, and combine this with player that favors right leg, then you may see how Treq is moving into channel, and this way leaving middle, which can be (and usually does) exploited by Raum. 

He is going where space is, but you need to count on his preferences, or his ppms...

 

[Rashidi]

On 18/07/2017 at 22:02, Barbosa04 said:

Every role I pick for the position already comes with a package of built-in PIs. If they are already doing exactly what I’m expecting from them, then there is no need to overcomplicate their role. There is intricate connection between players, and in this particular system roles that are chosen are excelling in their default configuration. You may check out my PPM preference for some players in that post.

I like this, there is no need to overcomplicate a system with too many PIs, if you can find the right player for the right role, then the logic of your system is the only reason why your tactic won't do well.

[Rashidi]

On 15/07/2017 at 22:52, nightwalker22 said:

So IWBs will still act like IWBs when using Raums? I'm asking because Rashidi said IWBs will act like WBs when there is no width provided.

Erm RMDs stay wide, so they give width. That is why the IWB tracks inside

[Armistice]

1 minute ago, Rashidi said:

Erm RMDs stay wide, so they give width. That is why the IWB tracks inside

No it was a wingerless tactic so that why I must have misunderstood.

[Barbosa04]

On 18.07.2017 at 20:08, duca015 said:

I get what you want to achieve with two RMD-s in team, but trust me, it is much better if you shuffle it a bit, and make it little bit more diverse. For example, SS and RMD who are pushing forward can create space for ENG and INF to exploit behind them. 

Shuffling is not an option for this system, as its primary objective was putting raum.s on the center stage. In its current configuration it achieves it best.

I admit that being more flexible with roles may be more beneficial compared to rigid system. But your suggestion of Eng. role would definitely wouldn’t work for me. My opponents usually field 2 DMCs, and Eng. with a “hold position” PI would an easy target for marking. Add on top of it his attack-mindness and decreased tendency to close down… this coupled with raum.s it may lead to overall unbalanced tactic.

On 19.07.2017 at 10:58, craigd84 said:

im finding my raumdueter's dont run towards goal often. They seem to get the ball and run wide...  im using standard mentality so i cant imagine my team are set too attackingly.

As Duca rightly points out, it might be because of striker’s presence. When the choice is between free space out wide and congested wall in central area, the obvious choice leads to former.

16 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Erm RMDs stay wide, so they give width. That is why the IWB tracks inside

In the absence of strikers, I find raum.s frequently moving centrally in search of space and to untie from the marker. So raum.s working area includes both wide and central areas in strikerless system.

 

[Barbosa04]

5th post of the thread is updated.

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IWBs are class in what they do.

 

[Rashidi]

32 minutes ago, Barbosa04 said:

In the absence of strikers, I find raum.s frequently moving centrally in search of space and to untie from the marker. So raum.s working area includes both wide and central areas in strikerless system.

I would also favour RMD's in a strikerless systems as I'd avoid having to PI them aggressively, though a few PPMs are ideal.

[duca015]

14 minutes ago, Barbosa04 said:

Shuffling is not an option for this system, as its primary objective was putting raum.s on the center stage. In its current configuration it achieves it best.

I admit that being more flexible with roles may be more beneficial compared to rigid system. But your suggestion of Eng. role would definitely wouldn’t work for me. My opponents usually field 2 DMCs, and Eng. with a “hold position” PI would an easy target for marking. Add on top of it his attack-mindness and decreased tendency to close down… this coupled with raum.s it may lead to overall unbalanced tactic.

Well, I guess in some systems putting Raum end ENG on same side would be problematic... But, As I said, I have already had 5 striktlly defensive players and 1 more that helped out, and I actually wanted someone who would force opposition to be little less "gung ho" in mentality. I wanted to give them something to be concerned about.

Also, as I noted before, I was on defense, and this was "my try to get something out of already lost game"  try, so, this was not the point at all. I do not play like that at all... 

But the point I wanted to make is that you actually can, even with your goal to create wide strikers, to diversify your approach a bit, and you may get better results.

As I said before, I understand that you had an idea that you wanted to follow trough, and everything was streamlined trough freedom of movement of RMD-s... It was like an experiment, right... But, if I am building new system, I would hardly use two RMD-s  and make completely symmetric formation like you did here.

[Barbosa04]

22 minutes ago, duca015 said:

Well, I guess in some systems putting Raum end ENG on same side would be problematic... But, As I said, I have already had 5 striktlly defensive players and 1 more that helped out, and I actually wanted someone who would force opposition to be little less "gung ho" in mentality.

This logic doesn’t apply to fm17. Opposition doesn’t see your tactic and doesn’t adapt to it. Pre-match it counts teams reputation difference and current form and based on that fields its own version of defensive/attacking tactic. Changes during the game is also dictated not by accessing your tactic but by necessity to score or preserve the lead.

You can see that as an experiment by starting the same game with vastly different formations. Opponent initial tactic with player roles will remain the same.

23 minutes ago, duca015 said:

 But, if I am building new system, I would hardly use two RMD-s  and make completely symmetric formation like you did here.

Yes, with the rising number of asymmetrical enthusiasts, we the plain symmetrical tacticians start to look like weirdos.  

[duca015]

Not asymmetrical formation necessarily, but getting some asymmetric movement with choice of roles. 

For example, in three man midfield, if you chose DLP and CWB-att on one side, and BMB and WB-sup on other side, you get asymmetrical formation with symmetrical basic setup. If you combine these roles in right way, you can exactly predict how it is gonna play out, and this is what tactical setup basically is. 

If you setup symmetrically all your players and all your roles, you are narrowing down your options to only few. I mean, this can be very, very efficient, I give you that, but, as I said, I like to have a bit more options, and asymmetrical play, weather by basic setup, or if it is achieved by selection of roles, is much better way to go, as it is much more applicable against more different opponents.

Regarding first part, I know, but if they are down by 2 goals, they do make change appropriate for this situation. For example, in this particular game, them man marked my ENG with one CM ,and my RMD with their FB. I guess I achieved my goal there, dont you think? 

And, there is also another thing I want to point out regarding ENG... 

This is role that does have "hold your position" shout ticked off. But let discuss what exactly this means in ME. This does not mean that he will be sitting in one particular spot waiting for other players to free him up, but this mean that he will be actively looking for space in which he can make his mark on game. Even if he is man marked (and as this is role I often use, he is usually man marked), if player has good anticipation, decision, off ball and team work, he can even then make his mark on game in lot of different ways, as he would drag his marker all over place and thus creating space for other players to move into. Further more, if there is space for him to exploit, he turns into Shadow striker at this point and he readily exploit this space. So ENG is by no means static role. It is one of most dynamic roles in this years FM.

[Barbosa04]

@duca015  Fair enough, you have certainly raised my interest looking into ENG role. These roles with built-in “close down less” PI makes them defensive liability, but guess as a counter balancing measure they might excel exceptionally attacking wise like raum.s, which is worth finding out. Thank you.

[craigd84]

On 7/20/2017 at 12:05, Barbosa04 said:

Shuffling is not an option for this system, as its primary objective was putting raum.s on the center stage. In its current configuration it achieves it best.

I admit that being more flexible with roles may be more beneficial compared to rigid system. But your suggestion of Eng. role would definitely wouldn’t work for me. My opponents usually field 2 DMCs, and Eng. with a “hold position” PI would an easy target for marking. Add on top of it his attack-mindness and decreased tendency to close down… this coupled with raum.s it may lead to overall unbalanced tactic.

As Duca rightly points out, it might be because of striker’s presence. When the choice is between free space out wide and congested wall in central area, the obvious choice leads to former.

In the absence of strikers, I find raum.s frequently moving centrally in search of space and to untie from the marker. So raum.s working area includes both wide and central areas in strikerless system.

 

I use 4 33 0 with no striker, however maybe its my AMC set to Trequartista that is making my Raumdeuters behave the way i stated.

[Zambrox]

download link?

[craigd84]

Zambrox dont be lazy, just copy the tactic from the instructions.