Replicating This movement

[A_Person (Named George)]

I want to recreate the player movement  shown below. I know the formation i want to use (2-3-4-1-0)/(2-3-2-3-0) which will essentially form a 3-2-5-0 with the wingers keeping the fullbacks busy and the CMs being played in a similar position to a LAM/RAM   or LCAM/RCAM, but i don't know what player roles to use for the central midfielders and wingers. I've decided a Half-Back and Inverted Wingbacks would be suitable for their respective positions.

[craigd84]

CM(S) with runs wide with the ball

RW LW Winger (A) sit wider, mark full backs and a PPM of hugs line.

[A_Person (Named George)]

53 minutes ago, craigd84 said:

CM(S) with runs wide with the ball

RW LW Winger (A) sit wider, mark full backs and a PPM of hugs line.

Thanks, i'll give it a try soon. Waiting to finish the season before i try to change things up

[Armistice]

That's quite some movement, but I think it's a bit harder than you think. I would say wingers for your wide midfielders, inverted wingacks as you said, a halfback and CMs instructed to Move into Channels. I don't think they will act as inside forwards though, if that's what you want. I think you need to watch defensive transitions carefully with that sort of movement.

[A_Person (Named George)]

1 minute ago, nightwalker22 said:

That's quite some movement, but I think it's a bit harder than you think. I would say wingers for your wide midfielders, inverted wingacks as you said, a halfback and CMs instructed to Move into Channels. I don't think they will act as inside forwards though, if that's what you want. I think you need to watch defensive transitions carefully with that sort of movement.

Yeah I know, i'm not expecting it to be easy, hence waiting for next season where i can develop it in pre-season. I wouldn't say i want them to be exactly like a IF, but somewhere in-between the Shadow striker and wingers. I was thinking of using the get further forward instruction on two AP-A initially with get further forward. If anything, the "false inside forwards" will be there to provide through balls / supply balls out wide. Thanks for the suggestion

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Funnily enough, I am playing the same way at the moment..

Defensive Shape

Standard 4-3-3, pressing aggressively but covers the field nicely.

When the opposition attacks build up we drop deeper into a 4-1-4-1.

Attacking Build-Up

When we have the ball the half-back drops deep and inverted wingbacks come inside during build up play creating a W-M shape.

Attacking Shape

..and in attack we are a fluid 2-3-5 shape.

Plays some really nice football. Very fluid shape. Good luck with your efforts!

[Svenc]

3 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Attacking Shape

..and in attack we are a fluid 2-3-5 shape.

Plays some really nice football. Very fluid shape. Good luck with your efforts!

 

Looks interesting to try and combined with that aggressive press should make it really effective to win the ball back quickly too! Out of interest, did you play these on older releases too? FM 2017 has those channels and half spaces opened all the time... I know that is a snapshot, but the channels opened here for Müller and Özil are huge, which is the kind of thing that regularly happens on this, plus naturally nonsensical for the wide player (12) to stick out there against such an ultra narrowed shape. edit: Do you ever need to adjust this, thinking of back fives, and narrow OP formations packing the centre, in particular dropping deep? 

[A_Person (Named George)]

12 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Funnily enough, I am playing the same way at the moment..

Defensive Shape

Standard 4-3-3, pressing aggressively but covers the field nicely.

When the opposition attacks build up we drop deeper into a 4-1-4-1.

Attacking Build-Up

When we have the ball the half-back drops deep and inverted wingbacks come inside during build up play creating a W-M shape.

Attacking Shape

..and in attack we are a fluid 2-3-5 shape.

Plays some really nice football. Very fluid shape. Good luck with your efforts!

That's helped quite a bit. what width are you using? Germany certainly has the perfect players for it though!

[coach vahid]

HI Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

Welcome back my hero

Can you develop your PI and TI used with your new tactic.

Thanks.

[A_Person (Named George)]

Just an update on this:

I've taken over monaco. The formation worked well, but i couldn't sort out the defense. for a half back i always use someone with stays back at all times and comes deep to get the ball. I didn't have access to this. Ended up putting this on hold. Instead of a half back, i've opted for a stopper. Monaco only has 2 BPD, which i like to use and i'm known to hoard them, making them a bit of a rarity when i move club. For me, the 3 at the back works much better defensively. something i was having issues with when i first tried it. Going to use a fluid team shape, as while i want people to multiple phases, i want a clear distinction between defence and attack. I;m going to try and use a high pressure tactic (hopefully).

http://i.imgur.com/oFL4K2h.jpg

 

As for the central midfielders, as there is no half back i'm going to try a front line consisting of  4 players, not 5 when in attack. this will add a pivot to try and help recycle possession, he will be be a DLP on support duty

[plindo]

On 09/07/2017 at 04:17, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Funnily enough, I am playing the same way at the moment..

Defensive Shape

Standard 4-3-3, pressing aggressively but covers the field nicely.

When the opposition attacks build up we drop deeper into a 4-1-4-1.

Attacking Build-Up

When we have the ball the half-back drops deep and inverted wingbacks come inside during build up play creating a W-M shape.

Attacking Shape

..and in attack we are a fluid 2-3-5 shape.

Plays some really nice football. Very fluid shape. Good luck with your efforts!

Hi O-zil, can you tell us what instructions your CM and your IWB have? Ty

[enigmatic]

The defending on Ozil's final screenshot is genuinely terrifying. 

There's the opposition wide player marking a nonexistent wide player, the opposition number 4 apparently moving across to cover an already well marked player leaving a big gap behind him him for two players to run into (slightly more realistic if it's coded as a lapse of judgement)

And his own team, with the defenders apparently positioning themselves as far away from the opponent's sole striker as it's possible for a centre back to be in order to make it as easy as possible for an intercepting opponent to hoof the ball down the middle of the pitch to him. (If that's the standard shape in attacking mode, I'm not sure whether the bigger flaw here is the defensive positioning or the opposition players not having the attacking awareness to score three counter attacks per match here regardless of instructions tbh... I'd almost be tempted to file it as another half back positioning bug)

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

2 hours ago, plindo said:

Hi O-zil, can you tell us what instructions your CM and your IWB have? Ty

 

Centre Midfielders both Get Forward More and from what I remember the IWBs automatically have a quite a number of instructions pre-assigned to the role.

Getting movement in central midfield is essential in getting the Inverted Wing Backs to come inside. They simply won't if players are there. For example, in a different save I play an IWB next to a BWM(S) in the DM strata and the IWB will not come inside, instead playing exactly like a normal wingback.

 

On 12 July 2017 at 13:28, coach vahid said:

HI Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

Welcome back my hero

Can you develop your PI and TI used with your new tactic.

Thanks.

Cheers, pal!

 

On 24 July 2017 at 09:17, A_Person (Named George) said:

Just an update on this:

I've taken over monaco. The formation worked well, but i couldn't sort out the defense. for a half back i always use someone with stays back at all times and comes deep to get the ball. I didn't have access to this. Ended up putting this on hold. Instead of a half back, i've opted for a stopper. Monaco only has 2 BPD, which i like to use and i'm known to hoard them, making them a bit of a rarity when i move club. For me, the 3 at the back works much better defensively. something i was having issues with when i first tried it. Going to use a fluid team shape, as while i want people to multiple phases, i want a clear distinction between defence and attack. I;m going to try and use a high pressure tactic (hopefully).

http://i.imgur.com/oFL4K2h.jpg

 

As for the central midfielders, as there is no half back i'm going to try a front line consisting of  4 players, not 5 when in attack. this will add a pivot to try and help recycle possession, he will be be a DLP on support duty

My diagnosis would be that the DLP(S) automatically holds position therefore the Inverted Wingback won't have any space to move into.

Also, I think those Wingers are the wrong way round? IIRC Lemar is left footed and Mbappe right..

There's certainly more experimentation required with the IWB as to how they behave with different types of midfield role. So far, I have observed:

1. Some they cut in behind, as you see in the screenshots above and were initially looking for.
2. Some they cut in ahead of, generally Defensive roles in the DM strata (but not 100%).
3. Some they won't cut in at all and stay wide.

@Rashidi may be able to confirm but I think it is an in-built mechanism (similar to Half-Back) vs a matter of instructions as the IWB cuts inside noticeably differently to a Wide Midfielder / other wide roles with the same instructions.  

[plindo]

57 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

 

Centre Midfielders both Get Forward More and from what I remember the IWBs automatically have a quite a number of instructions pre-assigned to the role.

Getting movement in central midfield is essential in getting the Inverted Wing Backs to come inside. They simply won't if players are there. For example, in a different save I play an IWB next to a BWM(S) in the DM strata and the IWB will not come inside, instead playing exactly like a normal wingback.

 

This is the same setup that you make for the Pep Guardiola Shadow Striker tactic, right? Did you change the instructions or just the player roles?

[A_Person (Named George)]

On 7/25/2017 at 16:56, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

My diagnosis would be that the DLP(S) automatically holds position therefore the Inverted Wingback won't have any space to move into.

Also, I think those Wingers are the wrong way round? IIRC Lemar is left footed and Mbappe right..

There's certainly more experimentation required with the IWB as to how they behave with different types of midfield role. So far, I have observed:

1. Some they cut in behind, as you see in the screenshots above and were initially looking for.
2. Some they cut in ahead of, generally Defensive roles in the DM strata (but not 100%).
3. Some they won't cut in at all and stay wide.

@Rashidi may be able to confirm but I think it is an in-built mechanism (similar to Half-Back) vs a matter of instructions as the IWB cuts inside noticeably differently to a Wide Midfielder / other wide roles with the same instructions.  

It's temporary, not planning on keeping lemar and mbappe for too long. As for IWB mechanics, i think it's definitely built in; I tried seeing if i could get a wb(d) to move inwards but they didn't move inside nearly as much as a IWB. Probably going to replace the DPL with a RPM or BBM , maybe even some more defensive roles such as BWM. I'm currently working towards a physically strong squad with height (at least in midfield and defence). I'm using Lima out of position because he's Perfect for the role, along with being within my criteria of being at least 6'0. Not been playing as much recently. It's hard to test in Ligue 1, there isn't too much quality. As for the midfielders, they're not in the DM area, but the CM area. I've deviated from the original plane because i'm at a different club. my IWBs are pushing forward quite a bit, so analysing their play i've decided to use them as an attacking outlet as opposed to filling in for the CMs, with the 1 of the 2 cms being defensive and one attacking