Need help with the game

[MHovel]

It might sound a bit of a rant, but this isn't a rant, i really need help with the game.

So, I'm playing with Bournemouth I tried many saves, I always start with standard mentality and flexible (But I always find myself changing because my players doesn't tend to play well and it look really badly if I won't change mentality to a more risky one, because the opposition seems to control the match, but how the AI knows how I'm playing from the BEGINNING, scouting are not always accurate, in my opinion, it doesn't make sense, even me as a user won't know everything about the AI even with the reports that i get.

Regarding TI's, I rarely use TI's, I'm using "prevent short GK distribution", "play out of defense", sometimes I'm playing with pass into space but not always and definitely not for the entire match, i tend to go counter when i want my team to hold the ball more in the final third and obviously for counter attacks but I try to analyze my team decisions and to make sure we are not giving the ball away too much when i instruct them to pass into space.

Anyway, even-though it's going to be my last FM that I'm going to purchase (because I'm really disappointed from the game in general this year), I still want to try and ask here, what I'm doing wrong.

Since FM for some experienced people with the game engine, is easy for them to "manipulate" the game engine, it has nothing to do with football and this BS I prefer to avoid.
In real life, I have a lot of football knowledge, and I assume there are many people who have a lot of football knowledge in real life and playing FM and they are still facing difficulties with the game.

My career as a player ended due to tough injury to the knee but when it becomes to game intelligence, I had it for sure (I know that being a player and a manager in real life is different and to be a manager, it required some qualities that manager gain with time, by mentioning the fact that i was a professional player, i just wanted to say, that i come with knowledge with football from inside the pitch.

I started to play FM in 2015, my English language was really poor back than, and it took a long time for me to understand the meaning of the game features such as mentality and shape (sometimes i didn't understood it correctly), but right now, I'm quite fine in 2017 when it becomes to understanding the English language.

Since I cannot play with lower mentalities (I'm getting too many crosses per game and I already reported about it in the bug forums, basically my players on the flanks crossing 90% of the crosses straight to the GK, the GK doesn't even need to move from the 5 yard box), lately, I tried to play with higher risk mentalities when the standard mentality wasn't effective and could even lead my team to 'disasters' - lossing.

If needed, i would even provide PKM's.

At the end, I always find myself ending up switching to attacking mentality or overload mentality with flexible or fluid shape with slightly low defensive line when im playing against low reputable teams mostly, but still, it depends as i mentioned, sometimes i go counter aswell.

I will provide some screenshots of the problem (and ignore the CCC because i know it's BS, some of my chances wasn't even counted, and TBH, nor the AI chances).

Take a note, in every game i change and adapt my game, so im not 100% sure what i did because I don't play much and continuously.

this is my formation:

sometimes i give my full backs a defend duty, depends on the AI defenders duty.

I have other formations that i tend to use, but didn't used them yet because there was no need (basically, when i see the AI goes with 3 strikers, im switching to 5-2-3).

those are the results so far:

1st league game was against west ham united, I don't remember how i approach the game, but if i remember correctly this was my approach: Contorl, Fluid.

2nd game against Everton, I thought that if im playing at home i would try run at the defense and go control mentality again.

It was easy to say that, they played park the bus from the beginning of the match (if i would do that, i would have being hammered for some reasons), anyway, **** happens, It seems like my attacking players didn't had the best game, If i remember correctly i even added another striker at the front and changed the formation to 4-4-2 (flat) but i didn't managed to score the 2nd goal and btw, they had a red card before the half time (AND LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF CROSSES).

 

3rd game against Reading we were dominating the hell of them and it should have ended 5-1 or something (not being salty here).

we were struggeling to score even though we got some chances, but once i changed the formation to 4-4-2 flat, we managed to score 1 goal, then Reading changed to attacking mentality I changed to attacking mentality and exploit space and get the 2nd goal, we won!

 

4th game, against Tottenham and guess what? i started with standart flexible, we managed to score, than we conceeded and I wend counter attack because even though we were scoring with standart mentality, it didn't looked promising.

after changing to counter attack mentality and fluid shape, we were getting hammered with low risk mentality, we conceeded the 2nd. than i changed to more attacking mentality and drop slightly deeper TI and later in the game (i think 70 minute of the game because tottenham has the lead 3-2, i changed to overload and we scored at 90 minute of the game).

we totally didn't deserve it, hey, but '**** happens' like it happened for me against Everton, right?!

 

5th game against Swansea: total domination here, nothing much to say, played control and fluid shape.

 

6th match against Man United at home.

I think i started the same as i started against tottenham and we were getting hammered at the 1st half, we conceeded at the 1st half and i thought that we cannot really turn over, i made changes to mentality and shape again, changed to attacking mentality and this time i think i went slight higher and we managed to score, but around 15 minutes later, we got a red card (my DM sent off), and i thought that we are going to lose this, but i my I didn't changed my mentality and shape and let everything remain, we were 4-2-2-1 and around 85 minutes of the game we managed to score the second with 10 man, at the end we managed to won.

and look what happened in the 79 minute of the game, my defender refuse to score:

 

7th game: cup game against ipswich, well that's not an even game and there is nothing to add:

 

8th game against leicester city, my left back and CB didn't had the best game

started as standart flexible if im not wrong, i didn' look quite good and we conceed, time to change.

I made a huge mistake when i changed to fluid and much risky mentality before the 2nd goal leicester scored. anyway, leicester deserved the win, bad game from us.

 

9th game against southampton: we simply deserved the win with the amount of chances we had, it was almost became a frustrating match for us, we had so many chances and my team just cannot score, finally after we scored we managed to scored the 2nd.

I forgot how I approach the game, but all i know that after we scored the 2nd I kept playing with overload and dropped slightly my defensive line and we managed also to scored the 3rd with a counter attack (with overload mentality + flexible shape).

1 woodwork for us

 

10th game, against hull city

2 woodwork for us, we were dominating the game my strikers kept missing, I replaced afobe because of a bad game and even wilson were missing, lost faith in this game.

I don't remember how i approach the game, but like the other games i always ended up playing overload and flexible shape or fluid depends on how th opposition playing and if there is a space to exploit.

 

11th game, against sunderland, now this is a total frustratin, we were way much better, most of their shot were restricted from long range (and one of their goals were scored from 25 yards which is fine, but the amount of missing chances we have from close angles are ridiculous and while this can happen in real life once in a match or even twice in a match, it can't happen way more times in a match or too often to 1 club).

and as you can see, we had another woodwork.

 

12th game against Arsenal - cup game, I don't know guys, the fact that they also played with some youngsters and i played with some players that can play easily in the 11 of my team, this match is totally questionable and i start having bad opinion about this game:

Savvas Mourgos, Joe willock, Charlie Gilmour were arsenal subtitutions and we, with full lineup cannot beat them facepalm. P.S again my defenders!

 

13th game against, burnley, again my defenders collapse.

burnley parked the bus from the start, I managed to score 1st than they instantly get back to the game after 3 minutes (they changed to attack).

I think i played control fluid, when they changed to attack i changed  to attack with dropping slightly deeper TI and fluid shape, i think i also changed to overload lately at the match when i saw that we aren't getting the goal.

I would change the formation, but with that formation burnley already had too much all the possession in game because they played lower risky mentality, and i didn't wanted to go lower risky mentality because it would end as a bore draw.

anyway, after the game against arsenal and Hull city I was really annoyed about how the things going for me, and i thought to share you opinion.

since there are people here that familliar with the match engine, i  thought to share my experience and to see if any of you are getting the same issues or results or it's just me?

what im doing wrong?

 

[MHovel]

My last game against crystal palace, they went 5 flat at the back and we were struggeling to get some decent chances, but once we get them, then comes this save:

that's too much bad luck, + i forgot to mention in my last post that i get too many woodworks per game (when opposition have hits the woodwork, it tend to happen only once per game, while me getting sometimes more than once).

Is there anyone who is willing to help please? if not, I guess this is it for me with FM.

[summatsupeer]

There's a lot of information there, could be quite daunting and people may not want to read that much, especially when your already talking about quiting, so why bother?

You've told you try lots of different things but that might make it harder for you to analyse what the problems are since your modifying so much.  Plus you don't explain why you make the changes so we have no idea if they are the correct response to the problem you've seen or if your just randomly trying things or just basing it off stats.

Your 6th in the league at the end of October in the first season with Bournemouth... that's pretty good!  You beat Swansea 5-0 and Man Utd 2-1, but you seem to only focus on the negatives.  Are your expectations with those players realistic?  There's plenty of RL games where teams feel hard done by, one flukey goal or a wonderstrike by a defender who never scores or some wonder save, but sometimes it just happens.  This isn't to say you shouldn't strive to improve, but I don't think things are as bad as they seem.

Lets look at your starting tactic:
1. Remember in FM your formation is your defensive positioning, so you have your advanced wide players pushed up, they are also on attack duty so are quite forward thinking, if opponents FB's go forward they may not track back as they see the risk in staying in the space as being worth it. Are your deeper players good enough to cope with this?  Especially since you aren't encouraging any pressing outside of the default mentality to make those advanced players pressure opponents.
2. All 3 of your 3 attack duties in that tactic are up front. Most of there movement is vertical with very little movement to drag defenders out of position or to create combinations/overloads.  How do you want your attack to play?

My feeling is your forwards get isolated, if there's space they can attack quickly with there vertical movement, but if there isn't space given to them they aren't doing anything to create it, resulting in pot shots and crosses.  The more attacking you go, the more this will happen since your telling the team to play quicker and quicker plus riskier and riskier they won't be patient to create space for a good chance.

Rather than focusing on changing mentality and team shape I think you should analyse your formation and how the players roles&duties combine.

[s1111]

You're doing quite well with Bournemouth, 6th in the league with a team predicted about 15th. Yet you want to give up? Your biggest problem is probably your expectations about how well you should do. You have below average players for the league you are in so what do possibly expect to achieve?

I would recommend changing maybe one or both of Stanislas and Wilson to support duties (IF-S and maybe CF-S) and Daniels to WB-S or FB-A. But you're doing fine already so maybe you shouldn't even do that.

[MHovel]

4 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

There's a lot of information there, could be quite daunting and people may not want to read that much, especially when your already talking about quiting, so why bother?

You've told you try lots of different things but that might make it harder for you to analyse what the problems are since your modifying so much.  Plus you don't explain why you make the changes so we have no idea if they are the correct response to the problem you've seen or if your just randomly trying things or just basing it off stats.

Your 6th in the league at the end of October in the first season with Bournemouth... that's pretty good!  You beat Swansea 5-0 and Man Utd 2-1, but you seem to only focus on the negatives.  Are your expectations with those players realistic?  There's plenty of RL games where teams feel hard done by, one flukey goal or a wonderstrike by a defender who never scores or some wonder save, but sometimes it just happens.  This isn't to say you shouldn't strive to improve, but I don't think things are as bad as they seem.

Lets look at your starting tactic:
1. Remember in FM your formation is your defensive positioning, so you have your advanced wide players pushed up, they are also on attack duty so are quite forward thinking, if opponents FB's go forward they may not track back as they see the risk in staying in the space as being worth it. Are your deeper players good enough to cope with this?  Especially since you aren't encouraging any pressing outside of the default mentality to make those advanced players pressure opponents.
2. All 3 of your 3 attack duties in that tactic are up front. Most of there movement is vertical with very little movement to drag defenders out of position or to create combinations/overloads.  How do you want your attack to play?

My feeling is your forwards get isolated, if there's space they can attack quickly with there vertical movement, but if there isn't space given to them they aren't doing anything to create it, resulting in pot shots and crosses.  The more attacking you go, the more this will happen since your telling the team to play quicker and quicker plus riskier and riskier they won't be patient to create space for a good chance.

Rather than focusing on changing mentality and team shape I think you should analyse your formation and how the players roles&duties combine.

1st of all, thanks for stepping by and giving your thoughts, I really understand that I shared too much information, but in order to share my experience with the game it was very important for me to provide those info.

When I said that I tried so many things I 1stly tried things that I think are reasonable and tactics and instruction that are reasonable to how I want my team to play.

I managed to get some issues with too much crossing in game when i went defensive mentality, shorted passing and fluid system (4-3-3 the same main formation), so I was so frustrated and went with higher mentalities because i was too nervous with the amount of crosses (if you want i can give you the thread I posted in the bug forums).

it's really obligate me when i want to play with a certain tactic (I understand it's a software after all, but that seriously ruinning the experience, atleast for me and i was too nervous about it, but that's not the case now and my problem now).

IRL I believe in possesion football even thought it might be exposed to counter attacks, this is what I'm trying to achieve in the game, and I think i have a problems when I choose the TI's shorter passing and counter attack mentality + play out of defense.

there are some situation when the player need to anticipate and put the long range pass when the opportunity arrise (when some of the attacking players does a great off the ball movement), This rarely happened for me.

When I instruct my players to use shorter passing, they just ignore the good off the ball movement from my strikers or wingers/inside forward, and just playing to the much closer teammate (which regulary is fine, but when the opportunity arrise i want my players to take that risk, even though counter mentality means lower risk, but i guess maybe i'm asking too much from a piece of software after all).

I also want to add, that as you could see with the screenshots we managed to get chances (I know CCC and HC isn't an indication, but in general we were dominating and hiting the woodwork in some cases). 

 

I know that Bournemouth isn't the greatest team, but I believe that with my team i can do much more, + they are not that bad. 

Since choosing attacking  duty to my forward players, I switched my Inside forward and my winger duty from attack to support, and for my striker, I changed to complete forward on attack duty, if I will notice that he will get isolated, I will change my formation to either 4-4-2 diamond or flat, depends on the opposition and depends also what i actually manage to analyze from the match.

the other changes I did to my last 2 games was playing with counter, shorter passing, and pass into space. this time with shorter passing, i have pass into space selected and suprisingly (which i never had before), my team actually passed a more risky passes when the opportunity arrise for my attacking player who does a great off the all movement.

I also changed the DM from defend duty to support duty, so he can help the midfiel when we are in possesion.

those are the results from the matches I made the changes (after the lose against crystal palace):

Against Stoke city

 

 

Against Middlesbrough:

 

Edit: Does pass into space have a different effect than "more direct passes?

[MHovel]

Anyway, don't bother answering I'm probably done after posting this screenshot and thread in the feedback section.

From there, I don't mind what SI will do, that's my honest opinion, if they really care about this game and users they should investigate this more further (I played with 2 strikers)

[Svenc]

Am I the only one who struggles to understand what this thread, let alone the last post is meant to be about??? Liverpool scored three goals, Bournemouth rather late on managed to get two back, big whoop. It seems connected to finishing, interwoven with the realization that putting effort in and doing really really well even with inferior teams is one thing, but beating significantly better teams with significantly worse teams to the top spots is kinda hard. If the discussion was supposed to be about the former, how could anybody know from looking at numbers, and what exactly is the argument? If the latter, what's the point? I doubt SI will ever program an ME on purpose where you can beat several hugely better equipped teams to their places just like that.

Furthermore, they will also never develop an ME where the team that has the better chances (assuming this was happening) wins their matches all the time. Statistically there is little, indication of one team dominating much either way, but as FM has never displayed which shots are actually from open play, and several more, those stats have always been a tad misleading, to say the least. I also doubt that they will ever develop an ME where "sitters" aren't missed, as according to professional football research, shots that see a goal expectation significantly above 60% are very very rare (penalties and tap-ins excluded). https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/feb/24/football-numbers-game-gary-neville

If it is about debatable behavior in defending/attacking, which exists, the extremely simple to flawed match stats of the FM kind won't reveal it, and posting isolated clips of missed shots won't reveal much either. Similar would go for possible extreme AI shenanigans influencing (switching from keeping everybody behind the ball to doing the opposite during matches etc.). Furthermore, why was this placed in the tactics forum? Initially there was little indication for a tactical debate, but as was admitted, a bit of a rant about something.

[summatsupeer]

@MHovel passes into space increases risky passes. Not sure why SI use different terms for TI and PI, I'd just say "through balls".  Doesn't affect passing AFAIK.

@Svenc your not the only one.  Tactics can only do so much, sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. If you have world class players they can do something special from nothing regardless of tactics.  In the same way you could be tactically perfect but an opponent player gets a lucky bounce or just does something special.  FM and football in RL would be really boring if the team that " should" win always did

 

[Rashidi]

14 hours ago, MHovel said:

When I instruct my players to use shorter passing, they just ignore the good off the ball movement from my strikers or wingers/inside forward, and just playing to the much closer teammate (which regulary is fine, but when the opportunity arrise i want my players to take that risk, even though counter mentality means lower risk, but i guess maybe i'm asking too much from a piece of software after all).

[Rashidi]

Excuse that, a bit tough to get past all those images.

1. I depend on my players to find good positions and while I do use a lot of short passing, I don't seem to have an issue creating play that goes patient in my half to direct and penetrating in the opponents half. Deciding how you want this to happen requires some creative passing instructions to be laid out and I've done videos on these on youtube. Essentially you need to remember that play goes through multiple phases and transitions. While your mentality affects the team as a whole, shape has a more specific effect. Deciding on what shape you want will help you get the passing styles you want as well. For example if my system had a DLP on support within a fluid system, his mentality and risk profile will be similar to most of the the other support duties. Now if the team was on highly structured this would be a different matter. If you want your players to take the risk with passing, what are you doing to encourage it? Do you have players attacking the space? And do you have specific players on specific passing instructions to encourage this.. Do you play with Team Shouts that encourage this and do you play with systems that embody this?

I will stick up 2 videos, the first one has us scoring goals from winning the ball back and the second video is just one touch passing to a goal. It can be done you just need to set it up right

 

 

[Dagenham_Dave]

SI should really implement an 'instant win' button for some people. I've just read the OP here, and I can't for the life of me work out exactly what this guy's actual complaint is? Maybe I'm missing something here. 

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

SI should really implement an 'instant win' button for some people. I've just read the OP here, and I can't for the life of me work out exactly what this guy's actual complaint is? Maybe I'm missing something here. 

You are not alone

[Svenc]

I think I can. It may be a coincidence, but it would be too big. I ran into MHovel last season already. The core cruxes seem to be the following:

1) Chances not taken dearly enough (in particular for the own team) -- may have a point, won't show with numbers
2) Doing great with initially subpar teams not good enough (always playing as Bournemouth, and rather than continuing and improve them, starting over and over again) - point is?
3) Statistically "Dominating" matches and dropping points. Point is?

In reply to 1+3, rather than posting stats, matches were uploaded last season. So rather than playing that numbers game, here's one that caused the rage quit on the prior release (dominated hugely, but lost/dropped points).



To clarify, left side was the opponent, right was him. What immediately sticks out is the following:

- the opponent had just as many attempts, if not moreso, from within the box -- putting that claim of domination in doubt immediately
- except for one attempt, every single attempt of the opponent was within somewhat reasonable range, suggesting that unlike his side forced to speculative efforts from range, opponent attacks cut through his defensive practically every time they got close -- see the first point
- clicking on those dots of his team reveals that every attempt bar the one in the box taken by the player 13 was a direct free kick.
- likewise it reveals that at least two of those attempts from within the box of his were headers under pressures from corners.
- all of those go +1 on the overall shot count, leading to that statistically superiority

Now direct free kicks lead to goals, similar how headers under pressure from set pieces do... but probably less regularly/likely so than say a tap-in would, or else the game would be pretty screwed and Swansea would end up regularly top of the tables with Gylfi's wonder feet. I'm not expecting his to come back, he didn't last season when he announced to quit upon pointing this out (ditto tactical contributions contributing to the above shot spreads), but he needs help indeed. Help trying to somewhat realistically gauge chances, that is. Maybe he did improve of it from last season and may have a point this time. But numbers won't reveal it, same as they didn't last season. I agree that the game is of no big help here, in fact the post match reports oft make a mockery of what was happening, as it's purely based on flawed and missing numbers too. Aside of that, Michel, you're doing well with Bournemouth and players that are mostly plain average if anything for the level at very best. Get real.

[MHovel]

I know football and i know there are matches and a lot of them with missing chances, I tried to give some screenshot, match statistics is not a full indication of the match but still, it should give a little indication about

what actually happened in the games.

2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

SI should really implement an 'instant win' button for some people. I've just read the OP here, and I can't for the life of me work out exactly what this guy's actual complaint is? Maybe I'm missing something here. 

Please, don't to be a smartass. im not expecting to win every game, this is not what i'm saying or tried to say.

I don't know which or who's post you read before, but next time, those cynical comments, keep it to yourself and try to be more polite when you talk to someone you don't even know.

You could actually said something like:  "I read everything and still didn't understood the point" which is a more reasonable response.

Anyway, I appriciate and want to thank you for your time reading my post, but i don't appriciate such of cyinical comment and i would like to ask you, if you don't have anything constructive to say, please avoid posting comments in this specific thread.

I never said that I execpt to win every match, and if this is your conclusion from what I wrote, than, no, that's not my point.

13 hours ago, Svenc said:

Am I the only one who struggles to understand what this thread, let alone the last post is meant to be about??? Liverpool scored three goals, Bournemouth rather late on managed to get two back, big whoop. It seems connected to finishing, interwoven with the realization that putting effort in and doing really really well even with inferior teams is one thing, but beating significantly better teams with significantly worse teams to the top spots is kinda hard. If the discussion was supposed to be about the former, how could anybody know from looking at numbers, and what exactly is the argument? If the latter, what's the point? I doubt SI will ever program an ME on purpose where you can beat several hugely better equipped teams to their places just like that.

Furthermore, they will also never develop an ME where the team that has the better chances (assuming this was happening) wins their matches all the time. Statistically there is little, indication of one team dominating much either way, but as FM has never displayed which shots are actually from open play, and several more, those stats have always been a tad misleading, to say the least. I also doubt that they will ever develop an ME where "sitters" aren't missed, as according to professional football research, shots that see a goal expectation significantly above 60% are very very rare (penalties and tap-ins excluded). https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/feb/24/football-numbers-game-gary-neville

If it is about debatable behavior in defending/attacking, which exists, the extremely simple to flawed match stats of the FM kind won't reveal it, and posting isolated clips of missed shots won't reveal much either. Similar would go for possible extreme AI shenanigans influencing (switching from keeping everybody behind the ball to doing the opposite during matches etc.). Furthermore, why was this placed in the tactics forum? Initially there was little indication for a tactical debate, but as was admitted, a bit of a rant about something.

 

6 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

@MHovel passes into space increases risky passes. Not sure why SI use different terms for TI and PI, I'd just say "through balls".  Doesn't affect passing AFAIK.

@Svenc your not the only one.  Tactics can only do so much, sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. If you have world class players they can do something special from nothing regardless of tactics.  In the same way you could be tactically perfect but an opponent player gets a lucky bounce or just does something special.  FM and football in RL would be really boring if the team that " should" win always did

 

@svenc @summatsupeer

1st of all, thank you very much for your time, and sorry for my english, the post probably confused many here, and i can see some other members cannot really tell what's the point of the screenshots.

When I started playing in FM15, there was too much of disinformation and it took time for me due to my lack of english to REALLY understand what those mentality are and what they actually do.

for example control mentality, a newbie who would start playing the game without watching guides or getting any info regarding the game, I can ensure you that, his 1st reaction would be picking a control mentality from all the mentalities, he would definitely go with control (and he will never go defensive mentality), I have no doubt about it, because the name is misleading and everyone would like to "control" the game.

I have no idea why SI doesn't change the name of that mentality, but this is a different story and irrelevant for the moment.

I must admit that when i posted this thread I was too nervous about the game and It was late at night. I felt that wa because it's not like we are not getting chances, it's my defenders collapse for some reason.

It's like if you don't score you conceed, when we get a really clear chance and my strikers aren't willing to put it in or the GK saving the day, this can happen in real life, but it seems like im getting this too often, I will repeat, I'm getting this too often, i'm not saying it's not suppose to happen.

And this is my problem right now which i want to avoid, by saying avoid, I'm not saying entirely avoid this because it's impossible, but maybe reduce those situation by maybe getting a tactical advice.

I want my strikers to be efficcient with the chances they get, I assume that the reason of those chances being missed is because my strikers and inside forward and winger have a low value to one of the core attribute for finishing which is concetration, so it can lead to missing chances.

the amount of CCC we get is incredibly high to a team such as bournemouth, but we cannot convert.

Please, again, this is also not about winning, it's about "if i cannot score, atleast my defence shouldn't collapse" my defence is too leaky.

the last post with liverpool screenshot, I started the match playing with counter mentality, pass into space, slightly higher DL, mixed passing, and liverpool took the lead 1-0 from 28M long shot. 

Me analyzing the match, it looked like a disaster, and it does felt like we won't have a chance to get back in game with the current system (this is important, as i said in my previous comments pass into space, I never used before, I thought it has a different effect, so i tried to use it and i wanted to analyze, but it seems like we were loosing balls too much).

Anyway, I started the 2nd half, but i removed the pass into space, and i removed, the slightly high DL, we conceeded 2 goals, we weren't good.

After we conceeded the 3rd goal, I was like **** it, and changed my mentality to overload and droping slightly deeper and i changed my formation to 4-3 midfielders - winger,  complete forward and false nine..

we were getting so many 1on 1 situations, for some reason liverpool kept their defensive line high so i wanted to try and exploit this space, 2 strikers at the front and used the drop slightly deeper TI and removed the pass into space TI.

I will take this save as an experiment, even though I removed those saves, I'm willing to give it another try because after all, I really love the concept of the game.

I will try to ignore the crosses I get when going defensive mentalities (even though it's annoying to watch the highlight of players with good technique, first touch and crossing fails to cross properly huge amount of times per match).

like you can see here, I eneded with bournemouth 6th place (with lower mentality the entire season and got some players from January such as belloti and romero), which is quite fine for me, but i wanted to raise that issue with the crossing which atleast for me, really ruined the experience.

I assume there might be an issue maybe with my tactic i used I saw rashidi video about counter attacking (long time ago), it's quite similar to what i used in my bournemouth save but i used defensive mentality and fluid and maybe some different roles.

This was my tactic, maybe you can tell me, what might be the reason of the amount of crosses?

There is a possbility that maybe i'm doing something wrong?!

 

5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Excuse that, a bit tough to get past all those images.

1. I depend on my players to find good positions and while I do use a lot of short passing, I don't seem to have an issue creating play that goes patient in my half to direct and penetrating in the opponents half. Deciding how you want this to happen requires some creative passing instructions to be laid out and I've done videos on these on youtube. Essentially you need to remember that play goes through multiple phases and transitions. While your mentality affects the team as a whole, shape has a more specific effect. Deciding on what shape you want will help you get the passing styles you want as well. For example if my system had a DLP on support within a fluid system, his mentality and risk profile will be similar to most of the the other support duties. Now if the team was on highly structured this would be a different matter. If you want your players to take the risk with passing, what are you doing to encourage it? Do you have players attacking the space? And do you have specific players on specific passing instructions to encourage this.. Do you play with Team Shouts that encourage this and do you play with systems that embody this?

I will stick up 2 videos, the first one has us scoring goals from winning the ball back and the second video is just one touch passing to a goal. It can be done you just need to set it up right

 

 

If I'm not wrong, I'm one of your first subscribers to your channels when you were in your 1st steps with the channel (If i remember correctly).

By this i mean, 1st I watched your channel, I noticed that you have a lot of knowledge with the game without disrespecting other youtuber, you are one of the only 2 subscribers that I have for FM.

I actually recommaded to a lot of people who struggle with the game to watch your videos and shared your channel, in twitch.tv.

I saw those videos you shared here, it does make a lot of sense, but I have a problem with lower mentalities and i posted it in the bug forums, maybe with your experience with the game threw the years, you can tell what can cause that crossing issue when I play with lower mentality which is annoying to watch 60 crosses per game, and the majority of them are straight to the goal keeper (even when the players have no pressure and high technique, first touch and crossing attributes), but even with those lower attribute i honestly think that the number of crosses are ain't normal.

I raised this issue in wingers thread not sure why, but neil asked me to open a new thread for my issue because it's something that worth a new post.

In this thread, you might even see "normal" amount of crosses, I can easily repreduce it, i also included the tactic file i used.

logically, I can probably reduce the amount of crosses, but If I play with bournemouoth which is one of the weakest teams in the leauge, work into box would limit the amount of chances and i might be even exposed to counter attacks.

I have choosed my full backs to do fewer risky passes, so in this case, the "cross more often" option being  highlighted in RED.

I can ensure you, that in the other saves i had much worse crosses per match.

I shared the tactic file i used in that post, maybe I'm doing something wrong?!

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Svenc said:

I think I can. It may be a coincidence, but it would be too big. I ran into MHovel last season already on a different place. The core cruxes seem to be the following:

1) Chances not taken dearly enough (in particular for the own team) -- may have a point, won't show with numbers
2) Doing great with initially subpar teams not good enough (always playing as Bournemouth, and rather than continuing and improve them, starting over and over again) - point is?
3) Statistically "Dominating" matches and dropping points. Point is?

In reply to 1+3, rather than posting stats, matches were uploaded last season. So rather than playing that numbers game, here's one that caused the rage quit on the prior release (dominated hugely, but lost).



To clarify, left side was the opponent, right was him. What immediately sticks out is the following:

- despite the claims of total domination, that opponent had just as many attempts, if not moreso, from within the box
- clicking on those dots reveals that every attempt bar the one in the box taken by the player 13 was a direct free kick.
- likewise it reveals that at least two of those attempts from within the box of his were headers under pressures from corners.
- all of those go +1 on the overall shot count, leading to that statistically superiority

Now direct free kicks lead to goals, similar how headers under pressure from set pieces do... but probably less regularly/likely so than say a tap-in would, or else the game would be pretty screwed and Swansea would end up regularly top of the tables with Gylfi's wonder feet. Doesn't appear to happen in football, probably shouldn't do here. I'm not expecting his to come back, he didn't last season when he announced to quit already upon pointing this out, but he needs help indeed. Help trying to somewhat realistically gauge chances, that is. Maybe he did improve of it from last season and may have a point this time. But his purely numbers won't reveal it. Aside of that, Michel, you're doing well with Bournemouth and players that are mostly plain average if anything for the level at best. Stick to it and you'll get them up there in no time.

Sorry I didn't understand some of your points.

but from what I managed to understand (i think).

If you took this from one of my old post, this is totally not relevant, because now days I fully understand the game features and some aspects that I wasn't sure about back than, now it's more clear for me when I started this new season.

Yes, you are correct, I'm playing with Bournemouth all the time, because I want to understand the game and when I fail, I won't start over with a different team, because it will take time for me to learn a different team.

When I start over I 1stly want to understand the game, this is why I start over with the same team, yes, it's quite boring and can get depressing, but starting over with a new team and failing will be even more depressing.

I also love the youngers development, so If i read something that I didn't took into consideration into my bournemouth save, there was times that I started over.

I would have love to give you a screenshot of the analyze page from this post, TBH, i wasn't watching the chances analyzation page.

I actually should have provide in this thread, and i regret removing the save file.

I can easily repreduce those issues i think in case it's worth an investigation. 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to thank you all for reading the post and taking it from your time.

Thank you very much!

[Svenc]

6 hours ago, MHovel said:

It's like if you don't score you conceed, when we get a really clear chance and my strikers aren't willing to put it in or the GK saving the day, this can happen in real life, but it seems like im getting this too often, I will repeat, I'm getting this too often, i'm not saying it's not suppose to happen.

 

Looking forward to it. In all more recent years I haven't seen one player having that regularly "finishing" issue providing uploads that didn't eventually reveal the following:  The chances where nowhere near the claims. In parts that may be subjective, considering that one on ones would/should realistically see average conversion rates between ca. 1 in 3 to 1 in 5 depending on the type (this is meant to be football, not Fifa). But in all of those instances where domination was claimed the numbers were inflated big time by poor to average attempts.

At its most pronounced in more recent years we're talking about the following from a player who never took on the good advice and focuses on stats entirelly. That's a lot of shots. That's also a lot of poo, and the few half-decent shots in there will be missed with some regularity, as the keeper is to be considered in the advantage almost every time if this were to be a football sim. Conversely, it will never ever matter if the opponent has but one attempt, if that is some quality, that is some chance to convert, same as a ranged attempt can go in too (just far less likely).

 

 

Your defense needn't collapse. You're dealing with better players coming against your worse defenders. They will find additionally ways through. On the other end of the pitch, it's vice versa. As long as you start over and over, that will continue. How unrealistic your expectations are shows in the opening post too. In that Reading match -- assuming clear cuts on FM were genuine -- you had 6 on target shots and 2 cccs and expected to score at least like 5. In real football big chances according to Opta are converted at no more but 33% rates (teams as big as Arsenal missed 70% of theirs last season), and a goal is scored on average in 1 in 3 to 1 in 4 attempts on target, and 1 in 10 overall attempts. Similar to most screenshots, Reading were statistically about onpar. Despite it all, your arguments look much the same as they did last season so far, and the game going down the route suggested between the lines (and stats) would make it worse, or at the very least, less like football than it is.