Help me build my (4-4-2?) tactic

[Jimmious7]

So playing FM17 I started an unemployed save and landed a job in Scotland, Stirling Albion.

 

I'm trying to run a 4-4-2 flat but even though we do create some chances and have some possession we also get a lot of chances in our defence. It's very unstable so far.  

Here are the factors in play:

- Two very good forwards, one is a AFW and the other a Target Man. I really want to have them up front together. They do combine well and score quite frequently. I usually have them as TM(Su) and AFW.

- Some decent midfielders for the League, mainly in the BWM area. Got also a very technical but old and physically weak MC. I'm trying a DLP(De) and CM(Su) combo at the moment but I notice that they leave a big gap between them and the forwards.

- Decent wingers that are not really fit to play as WM, only as W. I have one as Su and one as Attack.

- A really good aggressive DL, a good defensive DR and mediocre DCs.  DL plays FB(A) , DR switches between FB(Su) and DFB. The two DCs are so technically weak that I have them both as limited centre backs(don't remember the FM17 term now). I have both of them to Mark Tightly as well.

- Team Instructions are (usually) Standard, Structured, Get Stuck In and (not sure about that) Mark Tightly.

Rest are left to their "defaults".

The main issues I notice is lack of pressure in the midfield, bad defending and big gaps between midfield and attack.

Feel free to suggest anything you think will help!

[facman]

Quite a few people are asking about 4-4-2 at the moment. I'm directing people to this thread, which is where I learned enough to implement my currently successful 4-4-2. I contributed at the end of the thread how my 4-4-2 plays, but there are a whole host of ideas in there for alternatives. I would start by reading through the thread.

 

[Jimmious7]

Cool, I will check that!

[Cleon]

I also did an entire series about the 442 and went into what attributes for different styles etc. It can be found here;

 

 

[Frank27]

Well, the gap between midfield and attack is difficult to solve in a 4-4-2. It's just a risk of using that formation. Defensively you could shore it up with a DF(S) to pressure the opponent's midfield but it might limit your attacking capabilities. Changing the CM(S) to BBM(S) would give you more attacking options but it puts a lot of pressure on your DLP(D) to slow down attacks and it ruins any chance of pressing your opponent and winning the ball back quickly.

Depending on your centrebacks it might be worth it to look at how you want to defend. If at least one is quick, you can use a high line and put press the opponents. Put the fast centreback on cover. If they're slow it might be worth it to drop deeper and fall back into formation, then use one centreback as a stopper to close down the space between defense and midfield.

[Jimmious7]

I was checking a bit the threads mentioned here. I find it a bit sad that a "pure" 4-4-2 doesn't seem to work. It seems that the best solution is to drop the one FC to the AM strata. I'm not sure if my TM can handle that though.

Also Frank27, my center backs...well they kinda suck. At least they can run a bit so maaaybe I can lift the team a bit higher to connect better. The DF and (especially) the BBs are good suggestions that I'm going to try out for sure.

I will also certainly try to pull the lines together via "shorter passing" either by retaining possession or by the actual passing.

[m@rk]

i play with a 442 in lower league (england)

i have mixed results and probably have a shocking idea of what i want but finished 9th after 1st season and predicted to finish 13/14th

i use

GK (Defend)

DR - Full back (Support)

DL - Full back (Attack)

DC - Both Defensive Centre (Defend)

MR - Winger (Attack)

ML - Defensive Winger (support)

MLC - Advanced Playmaker (support)

MRC - Ball Winning Midfielder (defend)

SCR - Defensive Forward (support)

SCL - Advanced Forward

I also have TIs of Push Further up and work ball into box with  counter/flexible

[maanz79]

I'm playing 4-4-2 on my man utd save.

I have:

GK (D)

WBR (S)

DCB (S)

DCB (S)

WBL (S)

WMR (A)

BBM (S)

CM (D)

WML (A)

DLF (S)

CF (A)

Standard and fluid mentality/team shape with closing down more, push higher up, prevent GK distribution and short passing.

I set my wingbacks to stay wider, WMR set run w/ ball and cross byline, WML cut inside w/ ball and cross byline, CM (D) makes fewer risky pass, and DLF move into channels and close down more.

So far, it works well for my team in pre-season. What i did was, before my 1st game, i started only with roles and formation with focusing on player stats/abilities/traits (this is important as it will reflect on how they will play as a team) and team trainings (tactical/defending currently) as well. then, during gameplay, i tweaked a bit the TIs to find a good combination of play and player mistakes/errors during the next few matches.

I think i have a good set up but still need to see in competitive matches.

[herne79]

4 hours ago, Jimmious7 said:

I was checking a bit the threads mentioned here. I find it a bit sad that a "pure" 4-4-2 doesn't seem to work. It seems that the best solution is to drop the one FC to the AM strata. I'm not sure if my TM can handle that though.

Of course a "pure" 4-4-2 can work, you don't have to drop a striker to the AM strata.  I only did that to satisfy what I wanted the role and overall system to do, it was the final piece of the puzzle in that particular case.

[facman]

12 hours ago, Jimmious7 said:

I was checking a bit the threads mentioned here. I find it a bit sad that a "pure" 4-4-2 doesn't seem to work. It seems that the best solution is to drop the one FC to the AM strata. I'm not sure if my TM can handle that though.

I'm playing a normal 442 with Leeds. Promotion in year 1, two top ten premiership finishes in years 2 and 3 and a capital one cup win. Currently in year 4 and 4th in the league and top of my Europa League group.

i link the midfield and attack by using an F9 dropping back, while  a BBM moves forward. On the right flank a W(A) provides width, on the left flank a WM(S) with 'Cut inside with ball' links with the F9, and behind him a WB(A) overlaps. They are all anchored by a BWM(D).

[JoeLapira]

I'm using a pure 4-4-2 in my Journeyman save and I took inspiration from the 4-4-2 SACCHI thread here. I'm using Standard and Very Fluid while using a high press and it's worked wonders at every club I've been at. Here's my formation:

......................................GK(d).........................................

........WB(a).........CD(d)...........CD(d)................FB(s)....

........WM(s).........DLP(d).........CM(s)................W(a)....

.............................CF(s).............AF(a).............................

The only PI i have is for the WM; Sit Narrower and Cut Inside With Ball. This helps make a 3 in midfield and also allows space for the RB to attack from deep. The midfield is not very adventurous but it does provide stability and balance.

 

[facman]

@JoeLapira do you have any TIs? You mention using a high press so I'm assuming that you have your D-line 'slightly higher' or 'higher' and 'close down much more' activated. Anything else?

My 4-4-2 is sort of the opposite of yours in that I am Defensive/Fluid. My front two 'close down much more' to try to unsettle the DCs, but other than that I sit back, win the ball in my own half and then play quickly from the back. Here's the full breakdown of my 4-4-2

https://community.sigames.com/topic/364527-developing-my-4-4-2/?do=findComment&comment=10508634

It would be nice to have an alternative 4-4-2 using a high press as now that I'm an established top-10 Premiership side I'm getting more teams sitting back against me, so my 4-4-2 is becoming a little less effective.

[JoeLapira]

@facman; 

TI's: Higher Defensive Line, Close Down Much More, Tighter Marking, Prevent GK Dist, Play Out Of Defence, Pass Into Space. 

If teams are sitting back against you then this would be perfect as i have demolished "weaker" teams using this tactic. It does work well against strong teams aswell but i sometimes make little tweaks depending on the oppsotions setup. One point though, you need a pair of quick Center Halves to cope with balls over the top.

Just to address the OP's point about the gap between the midfield and attack. A Very Fluid team shape could address this as it makes the team very compact. Also i like to keep things simple in midfield, it is the most vunerable area of the formation and asking too much of them could really open up that area to the opposition.

[facman]

2 hours ago, JoeLapira said:

If teams are sitting back against you then this would be perfect as i have demolished "weaker" teams using this tactic. It does work well against strong teams aswell but i sometimes make little tweaks depending on the oppsotions setup. One point though, you need a pair of quick Center Halves to cope with balls over the top.

Thanks mate, much appreciated. My centre halves are quick enough I think (well, one isn't, so I'll have to remember not to use him when I play aggressively!

[facman]

@JoeLapira Quick update - just tried it out with my Leeds team, alternating between your High Press 442 and my Defensive 442, and just beat Arsenal at Elland Road 3-0! Happy days!

[Jimmious7]

Hey, nice replies guys, thanks! When I get some time to play again I'm eager to get in and make the needed changes and report back