match training...how do you use it?

[jimmyt86]

I'm unsure how effective the different choices are for the match training you get asked to select in the 2-3 days before a game. I understand the assistant is giving me advice on what he thinks would work best for the opposition but I don't really understand how to use it. I've left it at tactics for the whole season so far (currently in December of 1st season) as the familiarity has only just reached accomplished in the last couple of weeks.

Help please

[marsh82]

accroding to Cleon, once a "Match Tactics" are used in preseason to build familiarity with the More Match Training slider set to maximum, match tranining does very very little once thats reduced and in season.

I personally use Defensive Positioning and Match Training set one slot up the slider.

[JaYmZeE]

accroding to Cleon, once a "Match Tactics" are used in preseason to build familiarity with the More Match Training slider set to maximum, match tranining does very very little once thats reduced and in season.

I personally use Defensive Positioning and Match Training set one slot up the slider.

Granted, once I've maxed out tactical familiarity and we're all good there, I'll drop it - but I keep reading how peoples defence is hopeless or how they never score direct free-kicks etc - I only have what I observe, and I'm 99.999999% certain that practicing set-piecies results in well, better set-piecies - I normally leave match training 2 clicks from the right - ONCE TACTICAL STUFF IS MAXED - and then vary what I focus on depending on 1) Who I'm playing 2) Where I'm playing and 3) what feedback I've been getting from my Assistant - assuming I've got a good assistant - he'll say "We're not taking advantage of all our corners" or stuff like that - "maybe we should focus on Att Set Piece" - or "were giving to much away from opponents set-piece" - "Maybe we should focus on the stunning blonde rather than watching this crap" - so I'll focus on her - after all my assistant said so so it must be right.

[swansongs]

I do full match training all season picking whichever area I feel might be important. Minor boost or not I'll take any advantage I can get, and if it takes away from general training I don't care because I don't develop young players.

[phnompenhandy]

When my matches are tight affairs, draws and one-goal margins, and I need every point I can get, I tend to go for defensive positioning or attacking movement and put the notch fairly high. When I'm considerably stronger than the opposition or way out in front in the league I'll go to the minimum setting and focus on long-term training.

[marsh82]

i agree, despite it supposedly making very little to no difference, i train Defensive Positioning most of the season and my results are better than if i either dont use Match Training or if i set it to something else.

MAybe is a placebo effect?

It must make some difference though otherwise whats the real point of having it in game?

[Cleon]

The impact it has is minimal at best. It gives the equivalent of one attribute to defensive positioning if that's what you train etc. So the impact and effects people say they see aren't as profound as they claim. Nor does it mask faults with your tactics or really improve them. That's not to say it doesn't have a very minimal impact but people need to get some perspective here.................

It can be useful though for a small boost but remember it doesn't accumulate.

[Guest]

The impact it has is minimal at best. It gives the equivalent of one attribute to defensive positioning if that's what you train etc. So the impact and effects people say they see aren't as profound as they claim. Nor does it mask faults with your tactics or really improve them. That's not to say it doesn't have a very minimal impact but people need to get some perspective here.................

It can be useful though for a small boost but remember it doesn't accumulate.

I'm really hopeful that SI can one day come up with a system that makes match preparation as important in FM as it is irl & I agree that until then the current influence of match prep on team cohesion & performance once full TF is achieved is very minimal.

[Cleon]

I'm really hopeful that SI can one day come up with a system that makes match preparation as important in FM as it is irl & I agree that until then the current influence of match prep on team cohesion & performance once full TF is achieved is very minimal.

I'd like to see match training expanded so it allows you to focus on footballing concepts instead, to make it more modern and in-line with how it works in real life. I think concepts are what will really move training forward. Although it would be tricky to implement and mean more micro managing for people. But still, I'm hopeful of seeing something like;

New match training

Offensive Organisation

Defensive Organisation

Transition from Defence to Offence

Transition from Offence to Defence

Attack – Defending – Transition

As possible future options.

[JaYmZeE]

I'd like to see match training expanded so it allows you to focus on footballing concepts instead, to make it more modern and in-line with how it works in real life. I think concepts are what will really move training forward. Although it would be tricky to implement and mean more micro managing for people. But still, I'm hopeful of seeing something like;

New match training

Offensive Organisation

Defensive Organisation

Transition from Defence to Offence

Transition from Offence to Defence

Attack – Defending – Transition

As possible future options.

I'd like to see the whole system reworked. With a day by day plan with options on how to fill your days - Similar to how FIFA Manager had it. During match days you could see issues - then use the following week or before your next match to work on whatever was wrong - not only that your training plans could be used to greatly enhance the concepts and attributes you wanted your team to have and use. This may sound labour intensive but you end up with plans saved that you just load depending on whats needed or general ones for times your not facing any particular problem. The best aspect of this system was you got to see so clearly withing the match your decisions made in training and even with teams that lacked in certain qualities you could at least develope the team and individuals in these areas directly by your choices in training. The fact that you could split the team into groups and work on different aspects with different areas of your team - e.g. you may not want to waste crossing training on your CB's etc.

For those who aren't interested in the more detail - let them deligate it to the Assistant etc - I can't stand the thought of things not being incorporated into the game because those less enthusiastic or whatever don't like it too complicated. When it's not really complicated at all - it's about control - and the more control you give the user the option of having the more in depth and engrossing the game becomes for those who want to spend the time perfecting every aspect they can and the more rewarding to play the game becomes. Training and player developement are just a huge disappointment for me at the moment - and I'm not a "your game is crap" type at all - I love the game, I'm not threatening not to buy the next one - I want the game to accurately cover ever aspect of being the manager of a football club as best it can - for those who want an arcade game - give them the kids version with big buttons and pretty pictures - I WANT A SIMULATOR - the more options and fiddle diddly stuff that some people hate the better. Games made for the lowest common denomenator for the sake of maximising profits - especially games that should have a certain level of complexity - are deserving of contempt.

For me it's a massive hole - when you think about how many references there are in football forums to how different coaches approach training - what drills they run (thinking Ranieri and what Danny Simpson has had to say about his defensive routines) - How someone like big Sam gets a team like Sunderland to defend in a reasonable fashion - the different routines that are used for creating chiken tika taka attack phases - never mind about making your players fit, strong and able to cope with the demands of the modern game. At the moment the options available in game are so shallow they just annoy me.

Maybe your defensive issues (like these crosses I've never seen) are nothing to do with your formation, you need to get on the training pitch and make that your serious focus - means leaving you short on other things but that's the beauty of it - managing your time and resource and how to cope within your plan for that midweek game against Barcelona.

[Guest]

I'd like to see match training expanded so it allows you to focus on footballing concepts instead, to make it more modern and in-line with how it works in real life. I think concepts are what will really move training forward. Although it would be tricky to implement and mean more micro managing for people. But still, I'm hopeful of seeing something like;

New match training

Offensive Organisation

Defensive Organisation

Transition from Defence to Offence

Transition from Offence to Defence

Attack – Defending – Transition

As possible future options.

New options would be nice but it needs to go deeper than that, currently the choice between developing players through individual training regimes or spending more time training strategies to win your next match is a no contest, you concentrate on personal player development because IMO training doesn't have anything other than a passing nod at working on match plans, be that strategic of scenario specific.

One reason that is often put forward to explain why why English clubs are often found wanting in Europe is that their schedule does not allow them any time to actually prepare for their ext opponent but in FM that disadvantage simply doesn't exist because the training module is geared towards individual development, that fact that we can should we choose to constantly rotate our match squad while still rapidly working towards & maintaining 100% TF value is simplistic in the extreme.

Training is still an exercise in min/maxing, it's old school mechanics with a fairly new but generally unrewarding interface.

[swansongs]

The design philosophy of the whole game is extremely old school. It's more similar to classic point and click adventures than modern simulation games, given how opaque and obtuse crucial gameplay elements are.

No other games companies are telling their players to figure out for themselves how to accomplish basic tactical things, or require so much foreknowledge gained from experience of previous installments.

Even telling them to go read the manual is a dying if not already dead practice.

[swansongs]

I don't think training is an area that needs more complexity necessarily, we shouldn't - as some competing franchises have done - be assigning an hour to 5-a-sides here, two hours for shooting practice there. But the system needs to offer a broader range of training goals (as Cleon has touched on above, for match and development training areas), and for those chosen goals to actually do what the player expects them to do ("Fitness" training doesn't improve player fitness in the game right now. Many players aren't accomplishing their goal simply down to bad labeling).

The underlying methods by which your training staff achieves these goals is up to them. It's why you hire good staff. They know if suicides are better than a dozen laps of the playing field (or running up sand dunes) to train Acceleration. These could be visible to the player (training reports mentioning a player's excellent performance in today's 5-a-side games), but shouldn't be interacted with directly.

imo

[Guest]

I agree that what the user is presented should remain straight forward but for me it's under the hood where the complexity should be be ramped up so that the user's choices have a greater degree of consequence.

Scrapping the notion that having 40 plus coaches for a few squads at a club is realistic & the ideal way to go in FM has to be the first thing to go but as we're at risk of veering well off topic I'll leave it there unless Cleon wants to develop the thread into on that bounces around ideas on how the entire system could be improved.

[Marbah]

I tend to leave more room for match training.

from personal experience the team suffers a dip in form and I either score close to 0 goals or bag 3-4 from the opponent, when removing almost completely the match training in favor of more general training.

[JaYmZeE]

I don't think training is an area that needs more complexity necessarily, we shouldn't - as some competing franchises have done - be assigning an hour to 5-a-sides here, two hours for shooting practice there. But the system needs to offer a broader range of training goals (as Cleon has touched on above, for match and development training areas), and for those chosen goals to actually do what the player expects them to do ("Fitness" training doesn't improve player fitness in the game right now. Many players aren't accomplishing their goal simply down to bad labeling).

The underlying methods by which your training staff achieves these goals is up to them. It's why you hire good staff. They know if suicides are better than a dozen laps of the playing field (or running up sand dunes) to train Acceleration. These could be visible to the player (training reports mentioning a player's excellent performance in today's 5-a-side games), but shouldn't be interacted with directly.

imo

That's perfectly acceptable - If your going down the actually choosing what training goes when - that's easy enough got to as long as what each session does achievies is clearly defined - however - if you can tell your coaches what your after and they do the magic thats a massive step forward - as long as you can clearly see the results of whatever choices were made.

This is a bad example, but I broke the match engine in FiFA Manager 06 I think by training short passing/build up & Technique all pre-season and then some and when it got to the game it was like pin ball as my robot players super passed/bounced the ball around with ridiculous precision - then the game crashed - it didn't like robot passers - funny though and to a lesser extent - what I want to see - a direct link between whatever you & your coaches do during training and what your team does on match-day.

At the moment, if your defending badly, it's all down to looking at the formation (assuming they silly familiarity bars are maxed) - I want to be able to see bad defending and then have multiple options on fixing it - is it the formation - lack of focus in training - poor players needing developed - and then have the tools to try and fix it - a way to make your team better at whatever it is you have it doing in your system that obviously has a massive impact on how players develop - not just some weird pick a focus for x amount of time and hey ho how he turns out is within a very thin band and his fate was really decided when his numbers were generated.

Obviously some skills are far more difficult to enhance than others but with something like passing - you should be able to have a huge effect on how good a passer a player is with intensive constant work in that area where as pace is different, given that to a degree, you've either got it or you don't. Same with something like crossing, that's should be flexible when vision should be much less so.

It also makes having great coaches such a boon - you'd be chasing the best because they could make such a difference - really like this sort of idea.

The removal of 40 coaches, along with 40 scouts & 30 physios would be great - save me a good hour every April renewing contracts !

[jimmyt86]

accroding to Cleon, once a "Match Tactics" are used in preseason to build familiarity with the More Match Training slider set to maximum, match tranining does very very little once thats reduced and in season.

I personally use Defensive Positioning and Match Training set one slot up the slider.

I spent the whole pre-season with the slider set 2 notches from the left and no rest before or after training but it took until Dec/Jan to get familiarity above halfway.

[Cleon]

I spent the whole pre-season with the slider set 2 notches from the left and no rest before or after training but it took until Dec/Jan to get familiarity above halfway.

Because you didn't play enough games. Playing games are the key to TF rising once you've set the training. The minimum is 13 games to get it fluid. However if you buy new players, train multiple tactics or change TI's etc then it takes a bit longer. This is what you experienced.

[swansongs]

I wish it didn't take so long. It really discourages experimenting during that first pre-season.

It may be realistic, but it leads to a less fun game.

[jimmyt86]

Thanks Cleon. Generally I have matches every 3/4 days but because it's Villa I had A LOT of personnel changes. Hope it won't be so bad this next pre-season

[Guest]

Be warned, there is a price to pay for having too many pre-season matches with the risk being that your players hit the fatigue stage earlier in the season & you then struggle at the business end of the season due to players needing more rest between matches.