furiousuk Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 No there was no serious injury.........infact i was really suprised that Torres managed to play the whole season with only a 2 week injury at the beginning of the season...........as i said there were many more........Mata, Sturridge and Lukaku come to mind, although i am in a new season now..........but i will post some others if its of interest? Yeah, it's an amazing increase. It's to do with his simply amazing form over the season coupled with an unusual situation where most of his attributes were just on the brink of an increase. Great stuff. I've also noticed that some of my more experienced players still see green arrows. I had Christophe Berra increase his pace when he was well into his 30's!! Jack Wilshere (at 28) has just seen a raft of greenies and Phil Jones & Shelvey (also 28) often see the odd greenie. Jordan Spence sees greens all the time at 30 but for some reason these are normally preceeded by a red so it's just a case of attributes 'flip-flopping'! I'm glad the schedules are working out well for you!! When you progress a few more years can you post how you get on with switching Torres onto the Veteran schedules? I've often seen players get a boost when they switch to the veteran schedule and am interested if others find the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I thought i would post a few more players that are doing well............these are 1st team squad players...........although my Youth team stats are taking off, with the odd League Cup game and of course Tutoring..........i have managed to find some great 15 year olds with determination stats of 20.......will be great to see what happens to these guys when they move over to senior training............ This is Torres in the current season, he is out injured for 3 weeks currently..... Uploaded with ImageShack.us Petr Cech........ Uploaded with ImageShack.us Jose Boswinga...... Uploaded with ImageShack.us Josh McEachran........ Uploaded with ImageShack.us I seem to be getting a few complains about training being too hard.......mainly from the likes of Sturridge...........any advice would be great? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cragswfc Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gazza56 what you got Torres on?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gazza56 what you got Torres on?? Target Man 1st mate..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cragswfc Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Target Man 1st mate..... cheers pal, been putting my strikers on inside Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 cheers pal, been putting my strikers on inside I am playing a 4-3-3...........so have the likes of Torres, Lukaku and Drogba on TGM 1st.....as i have no wide players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanista1994 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Increases like the one Torres had up the page have become more common with the new patch, as the light green arrows now show every 0.2/20 increase. You can also get players with their attributes screen full of red arrows, but their attributes staying the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I've just realised why you see so many arrows even on attributes that's not changed, it was due to a change in one of the patches; - Adjusted the appearance of the different arrows when "show recent attribute changes" is ticked, so even the smaller changes are indicated as evident in the training panel graphs. That's why Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I've just realised why you see so many arrows even on attributes that's not changed, it was due to a change in one of the patches;That's why So if i have read that right, and not being too thick..........a green arrow still means improvement?........i am guessing the arrow changes with the amount of improvement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Yes green arrow means an improvement even if only a 000000.1 change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanista1994 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Yes green arrow means an improvement even if only a 000000.1 change. Really that small? I thought it was the 0.2/20 changes that were previously invisible (you could only see those on the attribute levels graph) and the darker green arrows were larger increases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Really that small? I thought it was the 0.2/20 changes that were previously invisible (you could only see those on the attribute levels graph) and the darker green arrows were larger increases. It now shows any change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake Appeal Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I believe the shallower angle is any kind of improvement on the 1-100 scale, the steeper one (see Torres' Finishing and Off the Ball, above) may show when it's actually changed the visible 1-20 attribute number. Haven't seen the arrow pointing directly up since FM11, when it meant the attribute had increased by 2 points recently (usually only saw this beside Determination or Work Rate when I had the opportunity to fine a player twice inside the same month for poor performances). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cragswfc Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 furiousuk I would be grateful if you could make a part time 1 xxx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prokolyo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Question for the Fury - why does the MC schedule have more defending than the DM? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehehemann Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 edit...answered.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake Appeal Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Haven't seen the arrow pointing directly up since FM11, when it meant the attribute had increased by 2 points recently (usually only saw this beside Determination or Work Rate when I had the opportunity to fine a player twice inside the same month for poor performances). Saw this today for Work Rate after I'd warned a player twice in one month about poor performances, so there are three green arrows now instead of two. You can sort of see the change on the attribute graphs now, how they plot points between the integers (e.g. '13.2', '15.8'). On the whole I'd argue it makes it harder to track how attributes are improving in the numerical sense, but easier to spot whether a player is training well and improving or not sooner, which is probably more useful to you as a manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuffers007 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yeah, it's an amazing increase. It's to do with his simply amazing form over the season coupled with an unusual situation where most of his attributes were just on the brink of an increase. Great stuff. I've also noticed that some of my more experienced players still see green arrows. I had Christophe Berra increase his pace when he was well into his 30's!! Jack Wilshere (at 28) has just seen a raft of greenies and Phil Jones & Shelvey (also 28) often see the odd greenie. Jordan Spence sees greens all the time at 30 but for some reason these are normally preceeded by a red so it's just a case of attributes 'flip-flopping'! I'm glad the schedules are working out well for you!! When you progress a few more years can you post how you get on with switching Torres onto the Veteran schedules? I've often seen players get a boost when they switch to the veteran schedule and am interested if others find the same. hi furiousuk. i have tried your schedules but i dont seem to be having any luck with it. i play as man utd ( 1st season ) im thinking maybe im using it all wrong?? not 100% on whom to put in which schedule. i understand the postion side of things i.e poacher, inside fwd etc so maybe i have the levels all wrong???? could you please help me on this? what category would you place macheda for example ( age 20 ) ravel morrison ( age 18 ) veteran and 1st team are straight forward but not sure whom would qualify for young and development? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 furiousuk.............just finished my 2nd season with your training schedules........here is Mr Torres again Uploaded with ImageShack.us After discussions about green arrows and things above.......i marked all improvements........so from my screenshot from last season........improvements are as follows....... Corners up 1 First Touch up 1 Passing up 1 Technique up 1 Composure up 1 Decisions up 1 Determination up 2 Off the ball up 1 Agility up 1 will keep you posted....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cragswfc Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 What do you do if the coach advise you that "the development of the guy has stopped because he needs a new challenge". Sell him? But the players play well, he's happy with the training level, the moral is superb etc. Maybe try develop a PPM? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 What do you do if the coach advise you that "the development of the guy has stopped because he needs a new challenge". Sell him? But the players play well, he's happy with the training level, the moral is superb etc. Maybe try develop a PPM? I have never had this happen to me...........is it youth players mate or first team?..........if its youth i would send them out on loan, gawd knows what you do if its a first teamer!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cragswfc Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I have never had this happen to me...........is it youth players mate or first team?..........if its youth i would send them out on loan, gawd knows what you do if its a first teamer!! Well he both been playing in my first team. I don't want to send him out on loan, he been doing business for me. Here a pic of him + which one should I use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fodos Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 In your pictures showing how your players developed, you show 2 dates. how did you do that? was it a skin and is that skin available for fm 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cragswfc Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 think he did through paint Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 cragswfc............i think i would really work on some of his weaknesses and try to develop him even more........try and get his determination up and see what happens mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cragswfc Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ok how do you get his determination up, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karax268 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ok how do you get his determination up, Let someone with high determination tutor him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ok how do you get his determination up, yeah as karax268 said......tutor him with someone who has a high determination and maybe some other strong points where Mormon is struggling......like his finishing stats or strength stats.....it may work wonders for the kid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cragswfc Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Let someone with high determination tutor him yeah as karax268 said......tutor him with someone who has a high determination and maybe some other strong points where Mormon is struggling......like his finishing stats or strength stats.....it may work wonders for the kidthank's alot mates. din't know that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oetjhill Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 why my players are complaining about high training workload? is there any suggestions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jatravartids Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 why my players are complaining about high training workload? is there any suggestions? I just ignore the whingers. None of my lot have ever taken it beyond moaning to the backroom staff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 why my players are complaining about high training workload? is there any suggestions? If my players moan about the high workload, i normall stick them into conditioning and then wait for pre-season and use the pre-season training........put them back into whatever area they were before moaning and it normally does the trick....basically they stop moaning LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cragswfc Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 If my players moan about the high workload, i normall stick them into conditioning and then wait for pre-season and use the pre-season training........put them back into whatever area they were before moaning and it normally does the trick....basically they stop moaning LOL Don't you find they come really unfit about 60min mark that way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintokhan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hi Furious, are you still active on these tactics? And also, do they work in FM2012? If so, can you please update your first post to detail all the position in the schedules which aren't listed there? And also, can you please elaborate the difference between "youth", "young" and "developing" schedules? Well I know what the youth schedules are for, but what happens when the player get's too old for that? Does he go into "Young" or into "developing"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Don't you find they come really unfit about 60min mark that way? I havent found that mate TBH......every pre-season i put my players through the pre-season training and keep them there upto 10 days before the season starts, then move them into their particular areas.......i tend to rest players alot too.......if i have a clear week.....(saturday to saturday)........i give the 1st team 3 days off........if they are coming back from injuries, i never put them back in the team until they are 100%....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 Hello again dudes and dudettes, sorry for the hiatus (I know it's annoying when you're using something and you have a simple question to ask and you don't get an answer!), been away/busy for a couple of weeks but I'll try and answer some of the questions, hopefully the answers will still be relevant to you: Gazza56 - Torres Screenies Glad these are working out so well for you, with the exception of the slight rise in corners that'd pretty much be where I'd want to see his development going. He already has awesome striker-specific stats but increases in decisions, off the ball and passing should increase his longevity as his physical starts to decline in the next few years. It's an incredibly achievement you've had with him to see such a good rise at 28/29 years old but he's tearing up every game he plays so you'd be pretty disappointed if training had no effect on him (even if he had reached his ability cap he would still see favourable attribute redistribution if managed correctly). the development of the guy has stopped because he needs a new challenge This is potentially a killer for a player, I think that it basically means he has 'out-grown' the club. I think in your case Crags that Mormon probably feels he is above your club i.e. his reputation (or self-perceived reputation) has raised above that of your club. It is probably also indicative that he has an ambitious or unprofessional (or un-loyal) personality. You have only a few options: * If you're aiming for a promotion (or possibly a big cup run/win) then pander to him and see it out until you've raised the profile of your club. Any ambitious manager will buy/acquire players above the standing of the club in order to help the club progress but if the club doesn't progress it's only logical that the player will then want to leave as they improve. If raising the profile of your club (and quickly) isn't an option then you might be a bit stuck. * If you're not already try and find a good, reliable tutor to give this guy someone to learn from. If his loyalty or professionalism rises he might decide he will want to stick with you for longer - if he really is above your club though this will only work in the short term. * This one is a massive longshot but you could try hiring a staff member with incredibly man-management skills. Not sure whether you'd actually SEE an immediate result with this method but the importance of staff can't be underestimated for helping control this sort of thing. * If his stock is high then get rid for a nice tidy profit and use that money to try and replace if possible. This is the saddest option of course but it sometimes necessary. I've never been a fan of keeping unhappy players - it's fine while you're winning but any downturn of form can cause a real problem with these 'unhappy' players spreading the bad word. High workload issues These schedules are incredibly high. I get away with this with my squad because I have a stupidly athletic squad who are equally professional and hard-working. I also employ pretty heavy squad rotation. I also have a fantastic backroom staff - this is critical. If you don't have all of these things (and I'll admit that few clubs have all of this) then you may encounter problems. Happy players do train better but I'll be quite brutal with anyone who whinges and let my man-management staffer deal with his complaints. If he is still whining and complaining then I'll get rid - but I haven't yet had a star player unhappy with the schedules so I haven't really been tested on this 'out the door' policy. The thing is, I don't like unhappy players in the squad as I think it causes more problems than their on-field talent can solve so it's pretty much my way or the high way when it comes to training hard. I like hard workers though so I guess it fits. If you don't value hard-workers as highly then just bring down the overall training intensity a notch or two or create an individual schedule for the whiner that has a slightly lower intensity. To be honest, playing well is more important than one or 2 notches on the intensity slider so it won't make a massive difference. Choosing a schedule for a player The 3rd post is this thread has a bit of info on how I choose a schedule for a player but there are some rough guidelines I follow: (Yth) - These schedules are Yth only, off the top of my head I think I've only created GK,Def,Mid & Str schedules which are pretty generic. I generally source all of my youth players myself so my smallish squad of youngsters will all be getting full-time contracts on their 17th birthday to maximise full time training. The part-time Yth schedules don't do much so I just whack up the intensity and get those young bucks playing as frequently as is sensible. Yng - When they hit 17 they go on these schedules and they'll stay on them until they are ready to start picking up 1st team games. Dev - When players are too old for the youth set-up they'll generally go on loan so this schedule doesn't always see a lot of action. Young players who only play a handful of games (maybe 5-10 starts + 10-20 sub apps during a season) will go on these schedules. Players returning from loan who are now ready to fight for a 1st team spot but won't always get one go here too. It's heavier to try and counter-act less playing time but be aware that a good loan period is generally more beneficial for a 18-22 y/o than a handful of games for you. 1st - Any player who is a genuine candidate for selection in every game is a 1st teamer. This is more of a maintenance schedule as these guys will be handling the bulk of the games. Vet - These are for older players whose legs might be starting to go but their mind and technical abilities still make them formidable players. I have a mixture of mature 1st team players and aging back-ups who can still do a job on the pitch but are mainly at the club because of their personality and tutoring ability (or I might be looking at them for a staff role). So far I've had a number of players maintain top flight ability into their mid 30's which I've never really been able to do before in past FMs. The other thing to consider is not just what the player is now but what they will be (or what you want them to be) in the future. In fact, this is absolutely crucial as you only see the benefits of training after a few years. I've had both Alex Song and Phil Jones in my save and both had been playing in midfield before I signed them - I wanted them as DC's so on the central defender schedule they went where their raw defensive abilities saw a nice little bump whilst their other abilities generally maintained. Perfect. A real-life example might be Theo Walcott. Probably best as a winger right now but may well end up through the middle more in a few years. Giggs has already gone through this transition, same as Rio Ferdinand from part-time midfielder to established defender. There's undoubtedly hundreds more good examples. Screenies in the opening posts and FM12 The progression shots in the opening posts are photoshopped. I don't know anyway to get a training progression view like that in the game (and I have tried myself as well as trawling the modding forum). Shame, it's be really useful to compare the progression of your charges and surely easy enough for SI to implement a history point. These schedules are developed for FM11. I think you can import them into FM12 and they should work just fine. Be aware though that the training categories for FM12 are slightly different so you might end up with some slightly unexpected results. The theory about creating the schedules and the backroom staff are all very valid for FM12 though so feel free to have a go at creating your own schedules. It takes a little while to create them but once created they rarely require any upkeep (I think I can't one of the midfield schedules because I'd made an error with the technical sliders but apart from that - and adding new schedules as required - I don't think I've touched them since creation). Pre season There's been a bit of chat about pre-season and my 2 cents are that a good pre-season is so so important for a player. I spend ages meticulously planning my pre-season but the results (in terms of player fatigue, injury and jadedness) have been amazing. If a player has had a tough international off-season and then got injured at the end of the off season so they report back with jadedness and a minor injury I'm going to have to work really hard to get this guy ready to go and I'm probably going to have to accept that in the 5-6 weeks before a competitive game he probably isn't going to ready. My aim for a guy in that situation is to give them a rest, give them plenty of training and then have them chomping at the bit to get in their after the first couple of weeks of the season. If you rush these guys back then they seem to retain a 'niggle' from their injury as well as retain their jadedness - these 2 factors normally lead to a crap season where player motivation is difficult to manage as well as their frequent 'niggling' injuries or poor end-match fatigue levels. In contrast, a player who has a lazy off season and a sparkling, well-managed pre-season is a dream to manage. They'll be easier to motivate, they'll maintain their fitness longer and be more willing to tutor or learn PPM's. All of this normally leads to better performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prokolyo Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Furious, Since you are back (and I hope you still are ), I'll ask my question again - why does the MC 1st schedule has more defending than the DM 1st one? Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Furious,Since you are back (and I hope you still are ), I'll ask my question again - why does the MC 1st schedule has more defending than the DM 1st one? Thanks! That's a good point actually! It's to do with my reliance on physical ability for my DM's. The general consensus is that there are 2 types of DM: a defensive beast or a playmaker. My opinion is that there is a 3rd: the Cover DM (I'd love to write a post on this actually). The cover DM is primarily defensive but, strangely, he doesn't need to be an amazing tackler as his job is more to watch the play and work hard to track runners, cut off options and generally get in the way of the opponents. The cover DM needs amazing game-reading ability (hence the very high tactical training) but also incredible physical attributes to get to positions quickly and to keep getting to threats quickly in the 90th minute. This demanding set of attributes means that something has to give and this is technical ability. Defending & attacking are kept the same because, whilst I don't really encourage it, it becomes pretty useful if this guy can pull off the occasional impressive pass (make use of his amazing mentals for offence as well as defence). The cover DM doesn't always get good ratings because his job is to track threats and eliminate them before they become a threat which means that he actually doesn't make that many tackles (thus doesn't get the ratings boost). He generally plays short sensible passes so doesn't get a ratings boost here either although he will generally make plenty of interceptions but that is pretty much the only usual way he'll get a good rating (my guy is also my set-piece so he gets a boost from that). My young DM playmaker is on the midfield schedules (he might actually be on AMC schedules for a year to see how that helps his attacking ability). If you have a Makalele-style defensive beast (he was fit but wasn't quick, he was just a fantastic game-reader and a great, hard tackler) then I'm not sure what schedule you'd use, probably the CB one or the DM one would be fine if his tackling already starts high. To be honest if you've got a defensive beast of a DM who can't tackle no schedule is going to make him into a top class beast, over a career I doubt you could raise tackling more than 6-7 points (maybe right towards the end of a career I guess but probably at the detriment of other crucial attributes). I think DMs require a vicious set of attributes to be truly top class so trying to train them all just isn't possible, you have to focus somewhere! If you had a quick DM then I guess I'd lower the aerobic training and up the defensive training - as much for concentration (crucial for a covering DM) as technical ability. Sorry for missing out your question in my long return post, glad you asked it again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 furiousuk.............I am glad to see that you switch your players around in different schedules.........i switch them around too, like full backs into the winger training, AM into DM training, and i feel their stats become more rounded, so for instance if you want your MC or AMC to drop back to receive the ball, they are not like fish in strange waters, so to speak! Havent tried Goalkeeper in the TGM training yet though (cough) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Havent tried Goalkeeper in the TGM training yet though (cough) Yeah, could be interesting! Nothing wrong with placing players in different schedules. I've had a couple of DC's on DM or MC schedules to make them better on the ball (their defensive attributes being good enough). I mainly use lone-striker formations so I don't have much room for small, creative striker-types but those youngsters who fit that description I'll happily place on the AMC schedules to augment their natural ability (and normally so they reach a higher price at market!) Players very rarely fit perfectly into the roles you want them in so you have to be creative to get the results you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
^Goose^ Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Furious - Do you have any tips/guidelines on when to start sending young players out on loan? Any tips on tutoring would be appreciate too. I seem to get far too many instances of 'Gains little' or at best 'gains a little', rarely do i get a properly positive outcome. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 I tend to give my guys a good run in the U18's (so, 2 years) where I'll be trying to improve their personalities as much as I can as well as build relationships if I can. It's also useful to see how 'busy' a player is i.e. how many goals/assists/tackles etc? Sometimes an FM player doesn't look great on paper but play incredibly well, this is important for development and players who play well generally develop into better players in the long run. Which brings me on to my next point about loaning... Send them to an appropriate club. Whilst I'd love all my loanees to be tearing up the Championship many of them just aren't suited to it and I've made a number of mistakes with my very young loanees where their inflated reputation (from being at a big club) means that a Champ team take them on but then don't play them because they aren't quite up to that standard. If you're sending out 17/18 year olds then don't be afraid of sending them to slightly lower leagues if that is what they need to get consistently good performances. The standard of the club and manager is important though, a couple of rules of thumb that I've picked up along the way (from personal experience and reading in these forums): * Good facilities help players to develop * Good coaches help players to develop * Even better than these are a good manager - try to look for motivation and working with youngsters (as usual, determination helps) * Generally players will play better at winning clubs, where possible try to avoid sending players on loan to the basement team (this is a judgment call though, it might be appropriate for some players). So far I've got Brighton into the Premiership by sending them my best loans (as my feeder team - they also had excellent managers which was just luck) and my 2nd big feeder team (Newcastle - how that ever happened is a mystery) are about to hit the big time again on the back of goals from my youngster. Those youngsters were good anyway but being in successful teams really helped them develop. The only downside to loaning is that you don't get to keep an eye of their training schedules and you don't get to mould their personality any further so you have to try and get their personality there first. As for tutoring, that's a little harder. This thread is useful for understanding personalities (there are others kicking around too) and tutoring primarily manipulates personality helping to mould your rash youngsters into upstanding professional young chaps. Something that can sometimes go wrong is choosing an exceptional tutor for a youngster with a bad personality - in this case you need to first mentor the youngster with a tutor with a moderately good personality before giving him a session with your expert tutor. If you jump straight to outstanding tutor the personality gap will be too large and tutoring will likely fail. The reputation of players is also important I think (although I'm not completely sure on this). Generally youngsters are far more amenable to being tutored by your highest rep stars and it seems to be more successful. I still think getting the personalities right is most important and there is always a little guess work involved so you will sometimes get problems which is why 2 years (or even 3) in your U18's isn't a bad thing as it allows time to fix a problem or further solve the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agi_ Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm using your routines with very good results. Th only problem i have is with youngsters because under 20 routines are just a draft, i had to ad a few but that's not the problem, and i noticed that a training routine using exactly the same number of clicks is medium load routine for first team but will become very heavy for youngsters (all bars zeroed, max just strenght, in under 20 it's already medium, in 1st team you can add 7 ticks on aerobic, that's a lot, before having it become medium) What you do with young players; keep them in under 20 team with crap routines or keep them in 1st team getting little playtime? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
^Goose^ Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thanks for that furious. I have another couple of questions if you dont mind. Is it important to seperate youngsters between under 18's and the reserves? Does it make much of a difference which squad they're in? As for coaches what do you mostly look for aside from determination and working with youngsters stats? I seem to find it difficult (especially with smaller clubs) to find staff with good mental stats AND good coaching stats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agi_ Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The sum of discipline determination and motivation account more or less for half the star rating of a coach For the other half: Fitness, goalkeeper and tactics for the respective rating Attack / defence and tactics for attacking and defending Tecnics and mental for ball control Tecnics and attacking for shooting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza56 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thanks for that furious. I have another couple of questions if you dont mind.Is it important to seperate youngsters between under 18's and the reserves? Does it make much of a difference which squad they're in? As for coaches what do you mostly look for aside from determination and working with youngsters stats? I seem to find it difficult (especially with smaller clubs) to find staff with good mental stats AND good coaching stats. There are a few things i look for in a youth coach, and for that matter an Assistant Manager............Determination, Working with Youth, Motivation, and the most important thing IMO is Man Management......all these together with JPA and JPP.........but as you say, lower league club managers have an almost impossible job finding coaches with all these attributes...also if you find a coach with all these attributes, make sure you have him in charge of matches for the Youth team, it helps build an understanding between the coach and the players! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm using your routines with very good results.Th only problem i have is with youngsters because under 20 routines are just a draft, i had to ad a few but that's not the problem, and i noticed that a training routine using exactly the same number of clicks is medium load routine for first team but will become very heavy for youngsters (all bars zeroed, max just strenght, in under 20 it's already medium, in 1st team you can add 7 ticks on aerobic, that's a lot, before having it become medium) What you do with young players; keep them in under 20 team with crap routines or keep them in 1st team getting little playtime? Is that with FM11? In Italy? The problem with workload is based on part-time schedules which have to be much lighter (as they are part-time of course!). In FM11 only those players under 17 years old have part-time schedules - I hand pick my U18 side and release ALL players who won't make it (they'll just take away playing time from genuine talents, I'd rather have a talent play out of position for a season than have a useless player play) so all of my youngsters get a full-time contract from 17 even though they'll still be playing U18 football (rarely some will make 1st team apps and some may go on loan). I think this has all changed for FM12 but can you not put them in the 1st team, sign them up to a full-time contract and move them to reserves but make them available for U18/U20 games? If not, I'm not sure, I'd imagine playing time would be more important so I'd probably keep them in the youth team but make sure their part-time schedules have a similar 'shape' to what I want. The workload slider is, of course, important but as players progress mainly through game-time (natural progression also occurs and logically some progression should occur through training although I'm not sure it works like that in FM) it's the 'shape' of the schedule that is more important. Thanks for that furious. I have another couple of questions if you dont mind.Is it important to seperate youngsters between under 18's and the reserves? Does it make much of a difference which squad they're in? As for coaches what do you mostly look for aside from determination and working with youngsters stats? I seem to find it difficult (especially with smaller clubs) to find staff with good mental stats AND good coaching stats. All of my youth players are in my U18's. Once they are too old they will either go on loan or stay to form part of my first team. Of those who stay some might not necessarily be the best players but they might need further mentoring or some game time to progress them - it's perfectly possible that I'll be looking to sell them at the end of the season (if they don't surprise me with great progression that is) and replace with a chap who returns from a successful loan. My reserve squad ONLY consists of loaned-out players. My reserve team is made up of first teamers who are made available (because they need a game, generally between 1-5 players) and the U18 players get the remaining positions which gives them more time (I haven't had a serious problem with over working my youngsters, possibly because I have fantastic staff - if you don't you might want to carry more players to restrict their game time a little, this is a big call though as they need as much game time as possible). As mentioned I look for Determination, discipline and motivation (alongside coaching attributes). A half-decent working with youngsters is preferable for youth, man management for seniors but I'm not too bothered so long as I have at least one guy with good Working with youngsters (or man management) at the training session (check out post 4 of this thread and psychologists). I get quite attached to my players so I try and get them as youth coaches when they retire to see if they'll end up making decent coaches so, like the players are fighting for their futures at the club so too are the youth coaches. As Agi states the DDM makes up a massive chunk of the ability of a coach so I'd value those if you have to choose as those coaches will be the most flexible which will probably come in very handy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agi_ Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Is that with FM11? In Italy? No it' s FM12, yes in Italy with under 20, not 18 like in England, and no use for reserve team. The problem with workload is based on part-time schedules which have to be much lighter (as they are part-time of course!). In FM11 only those players under 17 years old have part-time schedules - I hand pick my U18 side and release ALL players who won't make it (they'll just take away playing time from genuine talents, I'd rather have a talent play out of position for a season than have a useless player play) so all of my youngsters get a full-time contract from 17 even though they'll still be playing U18 football (rarely some will make 1st team apps and some may go on loan). That was exactly what i did last years: signing promising players and releasing all crap once they were available for pro contracts. I think this has all changed for FM12 but can you not put them in the 1st team, sign them up to a full-time contract and move them to reserves but make them available for U18/U20 games? If not, I'm not sure, I'd imagine playing time would be more important so I'd probably keep them in the youth team but make sure their part-time schedules have a similar 'shape' to what I want. The workload slider is, of course, important but as players progress mainly through game-time (natural progression also occurs and logically some progression should occur through training although I'm not sure it works like that in FM) it's the 'shape' of the schedule that is more important. You cannot make them available for under 20, only for the useless reserve team that for me is a parking lot for dinosaurs, waiting their contract to expire, that i dont want to spam my first team list; sure you cvan organize a friendly reserve game every week but, unless you manage the team yourself, your moronic ass man will put in the best youngster to fill the ranks, with the obvious result to have them jaded and needing rest after four months; not the best way to develop them. Your options are: keep them in under 20 team, with crap schedules around one third less the intensity of first team ones but with the same working load and, i noticed, the same chance of training accidents; or put them in first team, knowing theyare not yet good enough to play more than half an hour once in a while or a few games in case of an injury crisis and having them lose game fitness. All of my youth players are in my U18's. Once they are too old they will either go on loan or stay to form part of my first team. Of those who stay some might not necessarily be the best players but they might need further mentoring or some game time to progress them - it's perfectly possible that I'll be looking to sell them at the end of the season (if they don't surprise me with great progression that is) and replace with a chap who returns from a successful loan. My reserve squad ONLY consists of loaned-out players. My reserve team is made up of first teamers who are made available (because they need a game, generally between 1-5 players) and the U18 players get the remaining positions which gives them more time (I haven't had a serious problem with over working my youngsters, possibly because I have fantastic staff - if you don't you might want to carry more players to restrict their game time a little, this is a big call though as they need as much game time as possible). My present problem is that i signed a couple of very promising young brasilians palyers; they have excellent mental attributes, one is model professional and the other resolute, so they dont need further tutoring, are good enough to easily play most games in one of my second division feeder teams, but if i loan them out i lose the chance to have them home grown because i got them 18 old and they need to stay three years in the team before 21st birthday; having them home grown is a big bonus in Italy when submitting cup list and i'm very positive to play in europe next year or at worst the other one. I think i will move them in first team for a month or so, until they start losing match fitness, and then move them back to youth team to have them play some games. Not sure if playing a game in a month in first team is better than playing four in under 20, but i think that the better training schedules should make the difference. About the fantastic staff i have a very good team of star trainers: three 5 stars and just two 4 stars, a pretty decent ass man with a nice 15 man management that's also a 4.5 stars tactic trainer, and a couple youth trainers that cover the holes left by being forced to sign trainers for first team only (another crap change of FM 12, in FM11 board didnt care about what the trainers where doing, only about their number) That's all because my team reputation isnt high enough to sign more; i need to win something and raise it. Facilities are good, 3 gold stars, and same are youth facilities; i know inter and juventus have better ones, but they are above average for a team of my reputation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 If you leave youths in reserves they still get selected for u18's. Well in Brazil they do but not sure if that's because its Main squad > u23's > u20's though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agi_ Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 That would be a very nice solution, I will give it a try for a couple weeks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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